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Guest Gandalf

Do We Have Free Will Or Not?

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Guest Gandalf

In Gurbani it is written that everything that happens is God's hukam.so if a person does something bad to another person then why we get punised.i mean he can't do it if god didn't want it to happen.In short if everything that happens is god's will then why we are to be punished.

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Guest Satnaam

We do have free will- if u have a choice to slander somebody or be kind to them and u choose the latter, you'll get it back in karma.

God respects our choices- He doesnt judge us(Unconditional love) but we sow what we reap in the khel so we all get what we deserve.

Hukam is us getting what we deserve on behalf of our deeds.

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We are free to choose but we are not free from the consequences of our choices.

Quite amazing when you think about it.

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We are free to choose but we are not free from the consequences of our choices.

Quite amazing when you think about it.

quite democratic really i.e. the right to choose the wrong guy for the job/the right to choose the wrong deed to do :biggrin2:

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Guest Sat

We are free regardless, we just need to realise it. When we practice truth, we resonate at the truth frequency. Its the frequency of our true state- of Nothing and beyond.

Its beyond image, beyond form, beyond the illusion. So really, we are always free.

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I see Waheguru's hukam like a computer program, everything has been written down with many IF, WHEN,ELSE conditions. What we think of as free will is part of the infinite computations that are subroutines of hukam.

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This tuk spoke of in the video is not kept in context of the whole pauri as being explained in the video.

The names and the colors of the assorted species of beings were all inscribed by the Ever-flowing Pen of God. ang 3

Guru Sahib is speaking of how some people say they can write down everything or say everything God has created, but Guru Sahib says this in the following lines.

Who knows how to write this account? Just imagine what a huge scroll it would take! ang 3

I wish the Singh in the video would not randomly pick tuks of Gurbani and wrap his views around them. Gurbani says many times God controls everything and causes everything. The sakhi in the video is misunderstood by the Singh in the video.

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Frankly speaking, to escape from this world´s entanglements we have no free will, or just to say we have a very limted free will .

Let us elaborate it a little bit an see it from a rational perspective.

First of all, all our relations, our mental or emotional states are all karmic adjustments.

Eye for eye and tooth for tooth. Nothing goes in waste ..... nothing is free .

So if our present state is due to our past karmas, and our future is based on our karmas in this present birth/body + our reserve karmas in the causal plane, we can surely agree we have no such free will.

But by His Grace, we have another type of free will, which do not engage us with anything of the perishable creation.

Because if we exercise that free will of ours, we will surely be freed from the mayavee creation, to the plane which is eternal and changeless.

We are here due to our karmas and unsatisfied desires, but we can reverse this situation.

In the mayavee creation, any karma we do, we have to pay taxes(benefits) to the landlord of that creation, who is none other than Dharam Rai.

Wahiguru has entrusted him the administration of the lower creation, and told him, to not block the road, nor tax by any means, to those who want to sincerely return back to Him.

Now let us have a look in our horizons and ask ourselves, is there anything her in this world which I can do, and which does come under the tax law of karma to be paid to Dharam Rai?

Surely we shall not find anything as such, no shubh karmas, no rituals, no fastings no pilgrimages, no bathings..... nothing of that sort...

Then naturally the question arises, so what is that which can be done with free will in order to gain true freedom?

The answer to this is : His Simran.

How?

Well, by His Simran we do not incurr in any karma as such, then we are doing the bhakti who is truly the only free Supreme Being, and third, by His Simran, we unfold the Nam or Shabad within us, thus we board the vehicle of Naam and reach our True Nujh Ghar Sach Khand.

That is why the Bani says: Nanak Naam jahaz hae, chareh, so utare paar.

The Bani is very simple and clear, it is we manmukhs who have polluted and totally made a mess with the pure paviter Bani of our Beloved Guru Sahibans.

Sat Sree Akal.

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Guest Satnaam

Then naturally the question arises, so what is that which can be done with free will in order to gain true freedom?

The answer to this is : His Simran.

How?

Well, by His Simran we do not incurr in any karma as such, then we are doing the bhakti who is truly the only free Supreme Being, and third, by His Simran, we unfold the Nam or Shabad within us, thus we board the vehicle of Naam and reach our True Nujh Ghar Sach Khand.

That is why the Bani says: Nanak Naam jahaz hae, chareh, so utare paar.

The Bani is very simple and clear, it is we manmukhs who have polluted and totally made a mess with the pure paviter Bani of our Beloved Guru Sahibans.

Sat Sree Akal.

Its not just simran we do, its bandgi aswell. Applying the gyan we learn in Gurbani and from God to our daily lives and simran is required.

Treating the mentally ill, maya inflicted people around us as brothers and sisters- refraining from the 5 thieves and lust which the world is obsessed with and practicing good deeds and qualities such as forgiveness, compassion, selfless service and true love etc.

Not believing the Bullsh*t- the slander, the maya principles and ideas that the losers try (sometimes constantly) to sell us, and believing Truth instead 100% without doubt(for there is no room for doubt on the bhagti path).

I went to the gurdwarra today and heard some losers- fools- doing nindya in front of Guru Nanak Ji(who is present in every Gurdwarra in the world). How many of you do this?

We are the societal outcastes- when we hear slander, we shut it down and our mouths never utter such false statements, because in His court, it is a Huge crime, not to mention a reflection on ones own insecure, dicontent and angry self. We live free of the conditioning of the gimmick of society while still living in the world truthfully.

Remember Guru Ji said Truth is highest, but higher still is Truthful Living.

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I do not think there is any freewill. What we deem our free will ( discretion to make decision) directly depends on factors not under our control- our social conditioning since our birth, our sphere of knowledge,our family background, education limit our decisuin making skills

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Its not just simran we do, its bandgi as well. Applying the gyan we learn in Gurbani and from God to our daily lives and simran is required.

Treating the mentally ill, maya inflicted people around us as brothers and sisters- refraining from the 5 thieves and lust which the world is obsessed with and practicing good deeds and qualities such as forgiveness, compassion, selfless service and true love etc.

Not believing the Bullsh*t- the slander, the maya principles and ideas that the losers try (sometimes constantly) to sell us, and believing Truth instead 100% without doubt(for there is no room for doubt on the bhagti path).

I went to the gurdwarra today and heard some losers- fools- doing nindya in front of Guru Nanak Ji(who is present in every Gurdwarra in the world). How many of you do this?

We are the societal outcastes- when we hear slander, we shut it down and our mouths never utter such false statements, because in His court, it is a Huge crime, not to mention a reflection on ones own insecure, dicontent and angry self. We live free of the conditioning of the gimmick of society while still living in the world truthfully.

Remember Guru Ji said Truth is highest, but higher still is Truthful Living.

Brother Satnam, Sat Sree Akal.

Your posts are quite uplifting, but let me tell you, for me Simran is bandagee, is devotion.

Maybe you want to refer to " rehnee karnee", which you mention in your line below, to the practices of good deeds and putting virtues in action as : selfless service, true love, forgiveness, compassion....

All this is very good indeed, as it softens our stone hardened hearts, and dye us with these divine virtues......

And in my personal opinion, I do agree, when you say Truth is Highest, but higher is still truthful living.

I do not want to underestimate your view, neither to create any controversy, but I would definetely say, we all agree Wahiguru Akal Purukh is the ultimate Truth, but when it comes to truthful living, I do not think, truthful living means doing only good karmas as mentioned above, because they will at most get one to Swarg, Baikunth or a heavenly paradise, for a certain period of time.

Of course, this type of truthful living is necessary for spiritual practices/devotion, but in the end, if depending on it alone, it is after all a type of chaining, of bonds in this very creation. With the only difference, that, we changed from iron chains, to golden chains, but in the end, we are still prisoners.

So, as said, in my opinion, our Guru Sahibans, Bhagats or Sant Jan, when refered to truthful living, could not mean, something which will bind us, that is not their purpose, they want our permanent liberation from the cycle of 84.

So let us ask ourselves, what can that truthful living be?

For that, let us see, what is Truth first.

As said above, Wahiguru Akal Purukh, is the one highest and ultimate Truth.

So what is Truthful living?

It means, to live being absorbed in that very Truth.

And what is that living and being absorbed in that Truth?

And to answer this question, we come back to the base of sikhee, which beautifully and in simple words says:

awar kaaj tere kite na kam, mil Sadh Sangat bhaj kewal Nam

So we can see, bhaj kewal Nam, is living and being absorbed in that ultimate Truth, which in other words, is known as His Simran..

So now, we may ask, why His Simran is the Truthful living?

Because, it is the only bhajan bandagee, devotion, bhakti, which not only makes us pure paviter, and fills us with true wisdom, but also makes us truly humble,( which is a very compulsory virtue to enter in His Darbar), and ultimately it merges our soul drop consciousness, in that Ultimate Truth.

So only this can be the Truthful living, without any such bondages of creating good karma, as it fulfills the purpose, of our merging in that Highest Truth.

That is why also, the Bani says: Jin Har japeeya, se Har hoeeya.

Here, Har japeeya is the Truthful living, and Har hoeeya, is the consequence of that Truthful living

Bhul chuk maaf jee.

Sat Sree Akal

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Guest Satnaam

Hi Harsharan ji. Naam is Truth- it is a frequency of a balanced gyan that lives to discover while remaining detached from the nasha of the discoveries( highs n lows).

Bandgee, doing good deeds etc can bring us to the Truth frequency ie Naam ie, Simran. If u relax u can listen to the anhad naad, the ringing sound u can hear- this is symbolic of the Silence/naam/Truth- our True state.

It is the primal sound as in Truth, not even sound exists, only Nothing. U may find that when u work hard, or do seva, u hear this sound. And so my friend, it all ties in together. Truth is Truth, it is All pervading, it is ever present. All we see, hear, feel is an illusion, its all Him, its all Truth- Naam- all derived from beyond the Primal sound, from the Silence.

Simran is meditation, just by merely remebering truth- seeing Him in All, we are propelled into the Truth Frequnecy, vibrating at our natural level.

Try it, look at objects around u and recognise and say, Father, I know its You- and see how your frequency rises.

I personally wake at 1am in the morning with the Gurus Grace and do naam simran for 2.5 hrs minimum, i go deep into it and try and stay deeply grounded in it during the day- to keep the samadhi going, remebering/applying Truth Gyan- esp the important tenants of Nirbau and Nirvair, being all Loving and Fearless in recognising Truth in All.

Bhudda said that a man cannot not live without spirituality. This is how we truly live, by being spiritual- silencing the mind until we can just feel within our beings and learning the truth of the reality around us and doing truthful deeds, earning honest livings, being good to others- reacting beyond the 5 theives etc. It all ties in together.

God Bless You and may the True Bhagats rise in Truth and always be victorious.

Satnaam

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I do not think there is any freewill. What we deem our free will ( discretion to make decision) directly depends on factors not under our control- our social conditioning since our birth, our sphere of knowledge,our family background, education limit our decisuin making skills

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