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wahegurujikakhalsawahegurujikifateh



sangat ji, i have come across another stupid video involving beadbi of gurubani

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=788416231221050

the singh's name is GuruGanesha Singh
i have asked him for an explaination , waiting for his reply

kindly ask him here
http://guruganesha.com/contact.php

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Now that video should also be included in that channel. This is also Khalibani activity but this time done by prominent member of 3ho

Of course it is. We're all in agreement with that but what you're doing is looking at EVERY aspect of their existence with very negative eyes. Thats why you're refusing to see how incorporating an ele

I'm quite certain that's your YouTube channel or someone you know on a personal basis. Why do you condone such sensationalist titles? There are better ways to stop what's in the videos than trying to

Isnt it abt time gursikhs from ALL backgrounds united to raise this issue with Sri Akal Takht Sahib to forbid these 3HO antics?

If Gursikhs advice them, they will ignore it. As they are very much disconnected from the mainstream Panth.

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Best solution: Excommunication! And declare 3HO Amrit as invalid! That'll make them think more about their wrongdoings!

3ho amrit ? huh

look they do not follow Sikh rehat Maryada properly therefore they are not SIkhs as

1. they bow and worship other entities statues and picture of Harbhajan Yogi

2. They worship Sri Chand

3. they put yogic asans and rituals ahead of gurbani e.g. 'Bowing Jaap sahib'

4. they do homs and create birthcharts , to select wedding partners and auspicious days

we Have SRM for a reason , and these guys do not fit its minimum agreed definition of sikh behaviour.

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easy No Money = No Business, don't wait for leaders to deliberate and kick everything into the long grass, if ALL Sikhs stop funding these outfits then they soon come back on the right path. Look at that Ram Raheem he is so drunk with money that his power over men is more demonic then many fairy tale stories

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the singh's name is GuruGanesha Singh

Is he that really awesome Sitar player ?

His sitar piece on one of Snatnam Kaur's tracks (I can't remember which, I think it might be 'celebration') is one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard.

But, that aside, he's still a d**k.

I sometimes really don't know what to make of 3HO. There's no doubt they have single handedly brought more worldwide Sikhs into the Sikh fold than all the Sikh organisations put together. On the other hand, they've done and continue to do much harm.

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Is he that really awesome Sitar player ?

His sitar piece on one of Snatnam Kaur's tracks (I can't remember which, I think it might be 'celebration') is one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard.

But, that aside, he's still a d**k.

I sometimes really don't know what to make of 3HO. There's no doubt they have single handedly brought more worldwide Sikhs into the Sikh fold than all the Sikh organisations put together. On the other hand, they've done and continue to do much harm.

they have created more bheki sikhs than any other faction of the panth , I mean they are in white head to toe , eat maas, do gidda bhangra as part of sikh culture , do yoga and bhut parasti as 'part of sikhi' sorry 'an improvement on what Khalsa is told to do(thus the famed superiority complex') , they teach these weird kundalini asans to do paat , tell them that they have to practice tantric techniques to improve their connection to their life partner, to call themselves khalsa whether or not they have had amrit...to do havans and hom arti of harbhajan yogi's picture everyday.

This is what frustrates me about the plaudits given to that organisation , they are promoting a corruption of true sikhi in the western world and very few people will realise that . they are manipulating our image to make money for themselves which is not ploughed back into sikhi but siphoned off into a few individuals pockets while those who are at the lower levels of those organisations giving their all and then daswand to 3HO are getting disillusioned with what they perceived to be sikhi , and leave then start badmouthing sikhs in general.

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eat maas

Do they though ? Its just that all the ones I've ever heard of and even met are strict vegetarians.

do gidda bhangra

I think there's alot to be said of the fact that virtualy every single one of them...even the very very old ones....are super fit and healthy, whilst most of we Punjabi Sikhs...especially our old ones...are in very very bad physical shape. So, from that respect one does find it hard to argue with their common assertion that there is nothing wrong with dancing bhangra (in a proper setting) as a form of exercise as long as it doesn't involve the dark elements such as sharab and lust etc.

do yoga

?? :wow: And how exactly is keeping the body in wonderful shape against Sikh principles ?

This is what frustrates me about the plaudits given to that organisation , they are promoting a corruption of true sikhi in the western world and very few people will realise that . they are manipulating our image to make money for themselves which is not ploughed back into sikhi but siphoned off into a few individuals pockets while those who are at the lower levels of those organisations giving their all and then daswand to 3HO are getting disillusioned with what they perceived to be sikhi , and leave then start badmouthing sikhs in general.

Agreed. They are parisites and vampires in that respect. But is it really they're fault that we are either too lazy or too uneducated to see the wonderful things at our fingertips and in our history and understand how western minds have such a hunger for such knowledge etc ?

I gave an example a few months ago on this forum in a thread about superfoods. I mentioned Alsi. I mentioned how alsi (flaxseed) was the main part of the diet of our Sikh forefathers and how those forefathers of ours were stronger, bigger and taller than we are today. (Fauja Singh credits it as his secret for health). I mentioned how, since then, we Sikhs have taken it out of our kitchen and put it in the barn instead to feed the cows with to fatten them up (to work in the fields). Is it really the fault of 3HO that, being generally cleverer than Punjabi Sikhs, they knew this aspect of our history and marketed Alsi as an amazing superfood via Hollywood celebrities and have since got rich as it started a worldwide craze for it ?

So yes, they are doing well at our expense but we have to admit alot of it is to due to our own ignorance and general trepidation of knowldege.

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Do they though ? Its just that all the ones I've ever heard of and even met are strict vegetarians.

I think there's alot to be said of the fact that virtualy every single one of them...even the very very old ones....are super fit and healthy, whilst most of we Punjabi Sikhs...especially our old ones...are in very very bad physical shape. So, from that respect one does find it hard to argue with their common assertion that there is nothing wrong with dancing bhangra (in a proper setting) as a form of exercise as long as it doesn't involve the dark elements such as sharab and lust etc.

?? :wow: And how exactly is keeping the body in wonderful shape against Sikh principles ?

Agreed. They are parisites and vampires in that respect. But is it really they're fault that we are either too lazy or too uneducated to see the wonderful things at our fingertips and in our history and understand how western minds have such a hunger for such knowledge etc ?

I gave an example a few months ago on this forum in a thread about superfoods. I mentioned Alsi. I mentioned how alsi (flaxseed) was the main part of the diet of our Sikh forefathers and how those forefathers of ours were stronger, bigger and taller than we are today. (Fauja Singh credits it as his secret for health). I mentioned how, since then, we Sikhs have taken it out of our kitchen and put it in the barn instead to feed the cows with to fatten them up (to work in the fields). Is it really the fault of 3HO that, being generally cleverer than Punjabi Sikhs, they knew this aspect of our history and marketed Alsi as an amazing superfood via Hollywood celebrities and have since got rich as it started a worldwide craze for it ?

So yes, they are doing well at our expense but we have to admit alot of it is to due to our own ignorance and general trepidation of knowldege.

veer ji

yoga is seperate from sikhi , not as they pretend a precursor to doing bani properly,i.e. you have have your hands in certain mudras and the body has to be in certain positions as you recite bani for it to work .

Their methodology is along the lines of a cult , sleep deprivation and food deprivation were common methods used to 'prove' committment to the 3Ho way of life. plus encouraging dancing along to kirtan is a simple NONO which they just love love love to tell their groupies to do , kesh khilarke ...just be free... the leaders were hand-picked by the great yogi for their 'skills' in making money by whatever means (including illegal) so if you look at that admiringly as being clever they can keep it ... Once Yogi ji kicked it , their true colours came forth and they fought for control of the whole shebang and some even abandoned their sikh image

The biggest problem is when we try to think we know better than what our Khalsa ancestors did and thought we lose majorly , best way is the old way reconnect to true sikhi by following their example and not follow diluted ideas of namby pamby modern people. modern people are way too Soft we need to be hard as steel , true soldiers within and without .

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Of course it is. We're all in agreement with that but what you're doing is looking at EVERY aspect of their existence with very negative eyes. Thats why you're refusing to see how incorporating an element of yoga into our daily lives will only do us good rather than harm, especially as we Punjabis, generally, are in extremely bad physical shape overall. You're refusing to see how dancing bhangra in an innocent neutral setting, without the trappings of lust or alcohol, can be a great form of physical exercise. It seems to me you are so focussed on their bad aspects, of which I admit there are many, your eyes simply refuse to see their good points.

I am trying to keep to topic i.e. what they are doing which is not desirable in a sikh, what does not make them sikh . Sure you can do yoga , bhangra, gidda etc as you can play martial arts etc but that is not SIKHI related but is presented as necessary to know ...

you want positives

1. they make dastars visible and more commonplace

2. they break cultural expectations i.e. sikhs are only indians

3. They have translated Guru ji's bani to spanish (quality of translation I'm not sure of maybe someone can elaborate)

4. They know how to tie a dastar properly and when they keep kesh they do it fully not trimmed beards etc like some desi guys

5. There is a high proportion who try to learn and perform kirtan comparitively to average sikh population

6. More likely to immerse fully into Sikhi if gets proper exposure

7. Like to promote themselves and the sikh lifestyle

8. Laid back and not testostrone driven mostly

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I am trying to keep to topic i.e. what they are doing which is not desirable in a sikh, what does not make them sikh . Sure you can do yoga , bhangra, gidda etc as you can play martial arts etc but that is not SIKHI related but is presented as necessary to know ...

you want positives

1. they make dastars visible and more commonplace

2. they break cultural expectations i.e. sikhs are only indians

3. They have translated Guru ji's bani to spanish (quality of translation I'm not sure of maybe someone can elaborate)

4. They know how to tie a dastar properly and when they keep kesh they do it fully not trimmed beards etc like some desi guys

5. There is a high proportion who try to learn and perform kirtan comparitively to average sikh population

6. More likely to immerse fully into Sikhi if gets proper exposure

7. Like to promote themselves and the sikh lifestyle

8. Laid back and not testostrone driven mostly

Excellent positives and, excellent attributes to have as human beings I'm sure you'll agree.

The thing about it is, virtually all of them are extremely happy, content,positive, fit and healthy and immersed in Bani.....the embodiment of chardi kala sikhs. Surely we have much to learn from them ?.....as well as much to teach them (given what this thread is about)

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Excellent positives and, excellent attributes to have as human beings I'm sure you'll agree.

The thing about it is, virtually all of them are extremely happy, content,positive, fit and healthy and immersed in Bani.....the embodiment of chardi kala sikhs. Surely we have much to learn from them ?.....as well as much to teach them (given what this thread is about)

a lot I have met personally were standoffish in Desi Sikh company, meaning totally mixed generations and ages and if you do fateh they kind of seem at a loss...that seemed a bit off considering they were dastar wearing...but again it takes allsorts to fill the world

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VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Having Yoga as part and parcel of Sikhi is not Sikhi. Per Victory and Virtue/Sikh Dharma Manual (Western Sikh Rehat Maryada):

http://fateh.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/sikhism.nsf/d9c75ce4db27be328725639a0063aecc/5d4722f778d17b09872565b7007b33aa!OpenDocument

"While compiling this book, we were aware that it would be read by Sikhs who chose to become Sikhs, as well as those who were born into a Sikh family, usually of Indian origin. It is historical fact that almost all of the people who chose to become Sikhs were inspired to do so through the practice of Kundalini Yoga and the practice of Nam Simran at Kundalini Yoga classes. I do not believe that this is a coincidence. I believe that by the Grace of Guru Ram Das, who sits on the Throne of Raj Yog, the teachings of Kundalini Yoga were brought out of India to the West to lead the souls whose destiny it is to walk in the Guru’s Way unto the Guru. I believe that it is important to maintain the practice of this "preparation". We also recognize that it is the Grace of the Guru which leads us unto liberation. "

"A Sikh uses the techniques of Kundalini Yoga in the same way that s/he would take a bath in the morning, or be conscious of how s/he maintains the body purely, eating a vegetarian diet, not partaking of tobacco or alcohol. In other words, a Sikh prepares this sacred body temple as purely as possible to bring the Holy Naam, the Holy Gurbani into it, to do justice to that Sacred Word. However, Kundalini Yoga prepares not only the physical body, but all of the Ten Bodies of which this magnificent human system is composed."

Open parchar of Sikhs dancing as being supported by Gurbani. I refuted this a long time ago by editing the Sikhiwiki article, only to have the maintainer of Sikhiwiki come back and attempt to engage in further rationalization by Gurbani that Sikhi supports dacing. It does not - the dancing is misconstrued and misinterpreted by the author of the article and worldly dancing as is engaged in by most is contrary to Gurmat per Gurbani.

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Sri_Guru_Granth_Sahib_on_dance

Yogi Sahib had his last rights conducted per Hindu rituals by a Pandit. His wife and other Sabat Saroop "Sikhs" were also present for the ceremony.

There are some within their ranks that are good Sikhs loosely associated with the yogi movement, but many are simply too far gone the yoga path and cannot distinguish the two. Others are blind followers of Yogi Sahib and believe him to be above all. See: http://fateh.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/sikhism.nsf/d9c75ce4db27be328725639a0063aecc/bea12e9483d7d80c872565b7007b337e!OpenDocument

Yogi Sahib is who exactly to prescribe what is to be named contrary to hundreds of years of tradition? I bring this up as I was asked to do Ardaas in the LA Western Sikhs Gurdwara, and when I did Ardaas for the bhog of Degh and said Karah Parshad Nu Parvan Karo, I was rather bluntly told after Ardaas by a Western Sikh bibi that, "We don't say Karah Parshad. Sri Singh Sahib told us to call it Guruparshad because Karah is a vessel in which animal sacrifices are done". I found this rather strange. The followers of Yogi Sahib will vehmently push Yogi Sahib's declarations forward as true Sikhi. Contrary to what you may percieve visually, the majority of them are not Amritdhari. I learned this when the Gurdwara had just conducted an Amrit Sanchar and they requested all the Amritdhari Sikhs (not just the new ones) to get together for a photo. It was a small percent of them. I bring this up as many who are not Amritdhari ARE in full Sikhi sraoop, but carrying out more Yogic activities than Sikh activities and represent the Sikh faith, even though that may not be their primary focus.

What effect he had on a former Sikh:

http://www.sikhnn.com/headlines/2689/american-who-lived-bhindranwale?page=5 - the whole article is interesting, but this focuses on what is relevant to Yogi Sahib.

You can read the rather sad tale here:

http://www.gurmukhyoga.com/sikhism_and_tantric_yoga.pdf

I recognize that there are some Gursikhs in the West that have come from this movement, but understand that the very roots are tainted from Yogi Sahib and more and more of the manmat that takes place in their ranks is being exposed after his death. I don't want to engage in that discussion here, but Sikhs at large need to be very aware of this group and understand that there are many things going on contrary to Gurmat. They are relatively insular and rather proud of their ways and typically do not accept any non Western Sikh to criticize their way of life. I wish them the best and hope their return to Sikhi in a more pure form rather than the Yoga-religion hybrid with questionable practices.

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