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Granthi Singh Converts To Christianity

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I think you will find that most Christians will leave Christianity to become atheists rather than join another religion.

Christian religion is more about gaining the protection of a group for a lot of Christians and the reason many join is because generally Christians treat each other Ok and with kindness.

Church is generally a place to go where you can get kindness and support, that's why a lot of people choose to go there.

A lot of Christians couldn't care less about converting other people at all.

Either you are not familiar or very ignorant to the fact that there is an army of Christian Missionaries in Punjab whose sole mission is to convert as many people as they can. I know this because I had met one of them.

And I assume the INR 15 lakh this ex-granthi received did not fall from the sky and perhaps did not receive a telepathy to leave his religion overnight?.

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Either you are not familiar or very ignorant to the fact that there is an army of Christian Missionaries in Punjab whose sole mission is to convert as many people as they can. I know this because I had met one of them.

And I assume the INR 15 lakh this ex-granthi received did not fall from the sky and perhaps did not receive a telepathy to leave his religion overnight?.

I dont wana sound like a broken record, but continuing from wat u mentioned, wat about those christian missionaries durin those humungous pakistani floods, who were only willing to help ppl, as long as they became christians n denounced islam, truely pathetic, considerin wat khalsa aid did there indiscriminantly.

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Christian Missonaries tried in the late 19th century when British came to Punjab and they failed their missionary mission to bring Sikhs into Christianity. They can keep trying but will end up no where, most Sikhs should know this, but a Sikh missionary movement in distributing Sikhi books to villages should be suggested and SGPC shouldn't be depended on to do it.

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Well if nothing else the competition might make you people look after each other a bit better.

I mean I only really started getting involved in christianity again because of the huge number of islamic immigrants I am seeing flowing into my area.

If you take my point.

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Guest Jacfsing2

That's bad.

Proper Christians should help anyone regardless.

I can see now why you are so suspicious of their motives.

isn't Eduardo a Christian name?
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Indian Dalits find no refuge from caste in Christianity

By Swaminathan NatarajanBBC Tamil
_49024451_wall_466.jpg Till death do us part: Dalits are buried on the other side of the wall in this cemetery

Many in India have embraced Christianity to escape the age-old caste oppression of the Hindu social order, but Christianity itself in some places is finding it difficult to shrug off the worst of caste discrimination.

In the town of Trichy, situated in the heart of the southern Indian state of Tamil Nadu, a wall built across the Catholic cemetery clearly illustrates how caste-based prejudice persists.

Those who converted to Christianity from the formerly "untouchable" Hindu caste groups known as Dalits are allocated space for burial on one side of the wall, while upper-caste converts are buried on the other side.

The separating wall was built over six decades ago.


Caste discrimination is rampant in the Catholic Church Father Yesumariyan, Jesuit lawyer, Dalit campaigner

"This violates the Indian constitution. It is inhuman. It's humiliating," says Rajendiran, secretary general of Periyar Dravidar Kazhagam, a small socio-political group that has announced a protest demanding the removal of the wall.

The Catholic Church in India says it does not approve of caste discrimination. But it says it is helpless in resolving this issue.

"The burial ground is owned by private individuals, so we are not able to do anything about this. Even the local bishop is not going to the cemetery to perform rituals," says Father Vincent Chinnadurai, chairman of the Tamil Nadu state Commission for Minorities.

He says there is a new cemetery in the town, where bodies are buried without any discrimination.

Yet burials continue to take place in the controversial cemetery, presided over by Catholic priests.

For centuries Hindus from different castes have been cremated or buried in different places, according to their caste.

'Cementing caste'

This practice is fading in the big cities and towns, but in some places in rural Tamil Nadu, caste-based graveyards are still in operation.

_49024448_dalits_afp_304.jpg Discrimination against Dalits persists in all strata of Indian society

Dalit Christians are demanding more proactive steps from the Church to remove the wall.

Father Lourdunathan Yesumariyan, a Jesuit, practising lawyer and Dalit-Christian activist, says the Church has the legal power to remove the wall.

Even though the cemetery is on privately owned land, he says, a recent high court judgement ruled that the Church has full responsibility as it administers the graveyard.

"The failure to remove the wall only helps cement caste feelings," he adds.

Some years ago two Catholic priests demolished a small part of the wall.

But the influential land-owning upper-caste Christian group rebuilt it.

The Church is meanwhile accused by critics of refusing to give "just representation" for Dalits in its power structure, even while it campaigns for a separate quota for the Dalit Christians in government jobs.

Fr Yesumariyan says: "In Tamil Nadu, over 70% of Catholics are Dalit converts. But only four out of 18 bishops are from the Dalit-Christian community.

"In many places influential caste groups have lobbied and made sure that only the person belonging to their caste is being appointed as bishop in their diocese."

He says that in places where Dalit Christians are the majority, they often struggle to get the top job.

Even though the archbishop of Tamil Nadu region is a Dalit Christian, he has been unable to improve the situation much for other members of his community in the Church.

Untouchablity 'everywhere'

In recent years a fixed number of jobs and seats have been earmarked in Catholic-run schools and colleges for members of the Dalit-Christian community.

_49024447_communion_afp_304.jpg There are estimated to be more than 17 million Catholics in India

But this is being challenged in the court on the grounds that "there is no caste in Christianity".

Fr Yesumariyan continues: "The Indian constitution says it has abolished untouchablity. But it is everywhere. In the same way, the Catholic Church says there is no caste bias but caste discrimination is rampant in the Church.

"There are hardly any inter-caste marriages among converted Christians. Until recently, Church-run magazines carried matrimonial advertisements containing specific caste references. Only after our protest they stopped it."

A few churches in Tamil Nadu have even been closed after Dalit Christians demanded a share in the administration.

"We say there is no caste in Christianity," says Fr Chinnadurai. "But in India, Christianity was not able to get rid of caste.

"Those who converted to Christianity brought their caste prejudices with them"


LAHORE, PAKISTAN: Sabir Arif, a student of finance and cost management in one of Lahore’s private institutions lives in a hut made of wood, cloth and plastic sheets. His only source of income is the private tuitions he provides to others to keep his makeshift home intact.

The son of a daily wager, Sabir is not a typical victim of abject poverty in the city. Reminiscing about how he read Russian literature when he came across old story books while picking garbage in class seven, Sabir says his great challenge in life has been his caste – that he was born a Deendar Changar – Pakistan’s version of the ‘untouchables’.

Contrary to popular belief, caste in Pakistan has been a means of systematic discrimination. The lower castes here are Pakistan’s downtrodden, including Massalis, Choorahs who are majority Christian and Chamars or Changars who are also called Deendars if they practice Islam. In Punjab and Sindh these include the scheduled Hindu castes that serve as farm workers and bonded laborers.

Sabir admits that he faces greater discrimination than most of his “biradari” because he refused to stick to what is the generally acceptable position and career path of his caste. Living in the slums, and being considered lowest of the low in a society fixated on high and low birth, Sabir was always at the periphery, but his decision to pursue education did not sit well with the local community.

Muhammad Arif, his father who gets labor jobs with the help of his donkey cart, says he struggled with the decision of sending his children to school, “People of our biradari said that education was not for our people, that I should make Sabir help me with daily work, but I decided against it and have not sent my younger children to work as live-in domestic helpers like others in our community or forced them into working only.”

Discouraged, discriminated against and lacking any political identity, the city is now Sabir’s home, as it is easier for people of lower castes to access schooling and get odd jobs in urban hubs as compared to rural settings, where discrimination is far higher.

Abdul Rasheed Dholka, a political activist of Mazdoor Kissan Party in Sargodha has worked with lower caste farm workers, and says that in rare cases when young men from these communities are hired as peons or clerks, they try to cut off ties with their community and hide identity to avoid discrimination.

“Decades of oppression have led to circumstances where these people don’t even know how to stand up for their rights, because there is no representation,” he adds.

Dholka’s words reflect in Sabir’s thoughts, as the young man says he sometimes feels “like the Africans in South Africa or the Jews in Nazi Germany”. However, despite the twin challenges of poverty and his birth into the bottom of the social rung, Sabir manages to remain hopeful, and talks of changing the country into a better home someday.

Haris Gazdar, Director and Senior Researcher, Collective for Social Science Research in his paper “Class, Caste or Race: Veils over Social Oppression in Pakistan” argues that caste based marginalization is common in Pakistan.

“The trouble is that the biradaris and quoms are not all equal, and public silencing of the issue is very much about perpetuating existing hierarchies. The inequality is so severe and deeply embedded in parts of the country that it is hardly even noticed.”


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