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genie

Guru Nanak Was God?

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I been viewing a few clips of jagraj singh from basics of sikhi and he mentions in a few videos that Guru Nanak was God? When he debates muslims, which I believe to be a fundamental mistake. Also in my view it is a totally wrong approach to take with a muslim cos they automatically get disinterested when someone is associating God with "partners" as it is the biggest sin in islam according to them its called "shirk".

From my understanding of gurbani and sikh scriptures Guru Nanak Dev Ji was not God and he even states he is a servant / slave of God and it is God whom he worships and sings his glory of.

So why is Jagraj mentioning that Guru Ji was God? It totally contradicts Guru Ji himself and the very notion of core Sikh beliefs that there is only 1 God.

We are not Christians that believe Jesus is 3 in 1 where a physical God can suffer pain, die and get resurrected yet worship another God. Or Muslims who believe in a God sitting on a throne above the 7 skies outside his creation. We believe that God (consciousness) resides in every soul, every living being and outside it out in the realms of existence.

So I'm wondering why is jagraj / basics of sikhi coming to this illogical conclusion?

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Guest Jacfsing2

Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji was Vaheguru, the verses about him being a servant is mostly humility. "ਗੁਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਰੂਪ ॥੮॥੧॥

Guru Nanak is embodiment of the Light of God.

(Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ang 1192)" we can't compare Jesus to Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji because Jesus is only 1/3 of God, while Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji was 100% Vaheguru.

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I been viewing a few clips of jagraj singh from basics of sikhi and he mentions in a few videos that Guru Nanak was God? When he debates muslims, which I believe to be a fundamental mistake. Also in my view it is a totally wrong approach to take with a muslim cos they automatically get disinterested when someone is associating God with "partners" as it is the biggest sin in islam according to them its called "shirk".

From my understanding of gurbani and sikh scriptures Guru Nanak Dev Ji was not God and he even states he is a servant / slave of God and it is God whom he worships and sings his glory of.

So why is Jagraj mentioning that Guru Ji was God? It totally contradicts Guru Ji himself and the very notion of core Sikh beliefs that there is only 1 God.

We are not Christians that believe Jesus is 3 in 1 where a physical God can suffer pain, die and get resurrected yet worship another God. Or Muslims who believe in a God sitting on a throne above the 7 skies outside his creation. We believe that God (consciousness) resides in every soul, every living being and outside it out in the realms of existence.

So I'm wondering why is jagraj / basics of sikhi coming to this illogical conclusion?

Satguru and the Vaheguru are the same:
gur paramaesar eaek hai sabh mehi rehiaa samaae ||
The Guru and the Transcendent Lord are one and the same, pervading and permeating amongst all.
Guru Arjan Dev Ji
Siree Raag
Ang 53 - Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
gur paarabreham eaekai hee jaanae ||2||
one sees the Guru and the Supreme Lord God as one and the same. ||2||
Guru Arjan Dev Ji
Raag Raamkalee
Ang 887 - Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

There are more quotes such as this.

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Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji was Vaheguru, the verses about him being a servant is mostly humility. "ਗੁਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਰੂਪ ॥੮॥੧॥

Guru Nanak is embodiment of the Light of God.

(Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ang 1192)" we can't compare Jesus to Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji because Jesus is only 1/3 of God, while Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji was 100% Vaheguru.

Does not answer the question.

ਹਮ ਆਦਮੀ ਹਾਂ ਇਕ ਦਮੀ ਮੁਹਲਤਿ ਮੁਹਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ॥

हम आदमी हां इक दमी मुहलति मुहतु न जाणा ॥

We are human beings of the briefest moment; we do not know the appointed time of our departure.

-Guru Nanak Dev Ji ( SGGS Ji ang 660, Line 11)

I can pull you up more verses where Guru Ji refers to himself as a human being

And in other verses Guru Ji then praises God as an external supreme being and mentions he (Guru Ji) can not even be a sacrifice for God meaning his value as a humble human being is so little and insignificant compared to the majesty of the almighty and all that he provides to his creation.

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VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Watch 25:20 onwards to find out what Guru Sahib was.

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You are seeing Guru purely as physical form, Gurbani refers to Shabad Satguru which is eternal truth.

How would you explain what "shabad guru" is to a person doesn't know much about sikhi in the context of the question was Guru Nanak God?

To me I can explain it very easily to a muslim or any other non-sikh because I don't believe Guru Ji was God in human form. I believe, from evidence from scriptures, that Guru Ji was speaking the reality and truth of God through his actions by showing the light of his magnetic preaching ability and brief powers God had given him to guide humanity to Sikhi.

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Guest Jacfsing2

Does not answer the question.

ਹਮ ਆਦਮੀ ਹਾਂ ਇਕ ਦਮੀ ਮੁਹਲਤਿ ਮੁਹਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ॥

हम आदमी हां इक दमी मुहलति मुहतु न जाणा ॥

We are human beings of the briefest moment; we do not know the appointed time of our departure.

-Guru Nanak Dev Ji ( SGGS Ji ang 660, Line 11)

I can pull you up more verses where Guru Ji refers to himself as a human being

And in other verses Guru Ji then praises God as an external supreme being and mentions he (Guru Ji) can not even be a sacrifice for God meaning his value as a humble human being is so little and insignificant compared to the majesty of the almighty and all that he provides to his creation.

Do you believe Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji was humble? I'll take another example on people being able to see Vaheguru through a non-Satguru. There was a Muslim who once told Bhai Jeevan Singh from AKJ that he could see Allah, (Vaheguru) from him, Jeevan Singh humbly said that he wished to have his eyes, proving humility is a high concept. Also Sa'id Khan the brother-in-law of Pir Bhudhu Shah knelt his legs in the Islamic style prayer at the very presence of Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji proving that he is Allah, (Vaheguru), he was ordered to kill the Guru, but ended up surrendering his will and being someone who truly submits himself himself to God. (Don't listen to the idiotic Muslims today, they've only picked an choose what parts to follow), the very definition of Islam is to submit to God's will and how would they do that without accepting him?

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Guest Jacfsing2

@Genie, what is your definition of Vaheguru and how do you view Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji?

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Genie Jee,

the thing is, it is difficult to expalin something to someone/others, when oneself does not believe in it.

Then the point explaining to someone of Satguru Nanak Dev Maharaj was Wahiguru Himself, does not arise at all in any way.

First of all we are nobody, spiritually speaking. talking about these higher Truths, is not like explaining or teaching Maths or Geography for example.

The Bani says: to whom He wants, He gives that understanding with His Grace. It is not in man´s hand at all, as He is above any reason, He is Aparam Paar, He is Nirankar, He is Shabad ..... He is Satnam.

Who are we to explain? Who are we to understand ?

The Bani referring to pure spiritual beings like Guru Nanak Dev Maharaj, says:

Har ka sewak, so Har jeha, bhed na jaano manus deha.

At other place it also says:

Har Jee baseh Sadh ke hirday.

So you see, it is the Akhoot Jot, the Anhad Shabd is "pargat" in our beloved Guru Sahibans...in the Bhagat Jan, which make them the body/resident for a particular time being, as per means of comunicating with us human beings, to teach us Gurmat, to teach us sikhee...

Then, we also have to bear in mind that, even then too, we are so much manmukhs, that we do not even come to understand their teachings, nor recognize them, not even a 0.000001% of their infiite majesty. But then too, they are full of grace with us mugadhs/moorakhs. Because apart from grace and love, they have nothing in their spiritual heart account. They come with akhoot bahndars of Daya Meher to distribute among us jeevas.

We can never make justice to them even if we were to sing their glory/mahima all the 24 hours.....

Sat Sree Akal

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@Genie, what is your definition of Vaheguru and how do you view Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji?

Waheguru literally means wonderful lord teacher. As Gurbani states we can not even begin to define what Waheguru and extent of his abilities and powers so I am not going to define our lord exactly except to say briefly what we have been told by gurbani that Waheguru is the creator of all that exists of the seen and unseen, is in the past, present and future and knows all. Lives in all living beings and exists outside his creation also.

So from that concept we can understand that Waheguru is the the supreme soul that connects everything. God is not a human being but part of him (the soul) exists inside all human beings. In the light of Guru Nanak Dev Ji we should understand that the soul that Guru Ji was given had more powers and was more closer to Waheguru than any other humans ever wore. So when Guru ji passed away, as all humans beings do, his soul returned to Waheguru because waheguru had sent us Guru Ji to guide humanity to the correct religious path which was Sikhi away from fundamentalist islam, hindu superstitious beliefs and other incorrect illogical belief systems. This is how we should understand things and this is how we should answer muslims.

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Waheguru literally means wonderful lord teacher. As Gurbani states we can not even begin to define what Waheguru and extent of his abilities and powers so I am not going to define our lord exactly except to say briefly what we have been told by gurbani that Waheguru is the creator of all that exists of the seen and unseen, is in the past, present and future and knows all. Lives in all living beings and exists outside his creation also.

So from that concept we can understand that Waheguru is the the supreme soul that connects everything. God is not a human being but part of him (the soul) exists inside all human beings. In the light of Guru Nanak Dev Ji we should understand that the soul that Guru Ji was given had more powers and was more closer to Waheguru than any other humans ever wore. So when Guru ji passed away, as all humans beings do, his soul returned to Waheguru because waheguru had sent us Guru Ji to guide humanity to the correct religious path which was Sikhi away from fundamentalist islam, hindu superstitious beliefs and other incorrect illogical belief systems. This is how we should understand things and this is how we should answer muslims.

Genie Jee,

your elaboration is quite good.

But going back to your statement in blue above.

Let us see it in this way:

Does not the Bani say: Sach Khand vaseh Nirankar.

So if only Wahiguru Nirankar is in Sach Khand, it also means that,apart from Him alone nobody is there.

Wahiguru is the Ocean, any soul drop on arriving there, merges in Him, and becomes one with Him without distinction.

We do not go to Sach Khand to maintain our false individual identity, thinking we shall meet this or that person there...it is not like going to a foreign country and expect to meet our fellowmen, friends, family members .... or even Guru sahibans.

All forms, sizes, shapes, colors, genders, exist as long as mind is present ..... which is alike up to the region of Braham.

Crossing Brahm region, then the soul entering Parbraham up to Sach Khand, leaves all the 3 bodies and mind behind, and with the power and grace of Shabad Guru, the wadbhagee soul reaches safe and sound in the lap our Father Wahiguru Akal Purukh.

This process can be visualized in the following manner:

Wahiguru is the Infinite Ocean, we souls are drops on the mayavee seashore of the creation. Now the huge and mighty Ocean, inspite of it inmensity can not reach the seashore to collect the drops there which are ready to return to its origin...

So the Ocean adopts the form of a wave, in order to reach the shore, and wrap those drops within itself.

Then what happens?

That wave, carrying those drops withinn, returns back into the Ocean.... and then something marvelous, beyond our comprehension happens, the drop, the wave and the Ocaen have become one without any distinctions.

So we can say, the Ocean is Wahiguru..and the Bhagat Jan or Guru Sahibans are the waves, who come into existence, as long as there are souls/drops, which cry sinecerly to return back to the Nijh Ghar,at the Lotus feet of Wahiguru.

Sat Sree Akal.

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Sahib Sri guru gobind Singh Ji has himself said guru Nanak dev Ji is akaal purkh in Sri Sarbloh Granth sahib.

"Satguru Nanak Aap Parmeswar - Avtaar Lie Shubh Bans Pardhana". Sri sarbloh Granth.

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Guest Jacfsing2

Sahib Sri guru goblins Singh Ji has himself said guru Nanak dev Ji is akaal purkh in Sri Sarbloh Granth sahib.

"Satguru Nanak Aap Parmeswar - Avtaar Lie Shubh Bans Pardhana". Sri sarbloh Granth.

Is there a translated version of Sri Sarbloh Granth?

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