Should non-practising sikhs be allowed Anand karaj?

[Guest Pakhandi Baba]

20 hours ago, Guest confused.upset.lost said:

yes, i'm confusd.

You get it. And that's why the majority of Sikhs like you need to be marginalised.

I don't know if i'm a sikh or just imagining.

Exactly. By defining Sikhs as only being Amritdhari's we help our RSS masters to lower the perecentage of Sikhs so that Sikhs are left as a tiny and politically impotent minority within Punjab. Whereas if everyone who attends Gurdwara and bows down before Guru Sahib was accepted as a full fledged member of the Sikh Panth the Sikh population would grow in leaps and bounds.

This is why a friend from chamar caste told me to follow their ravidassia and go their gurdwara.

Yes we have Indira and Rajiv Gandhi to thank for creating so-called Ravidassia Gurdwara's after June 1984. But the way to feed their growth is by breaking Sikhs away from their local united Sangat and pushing them into the arms of dera's like at pind Ballan run by crooks like myself.

He said that the Sikhs won't accept me as one of their own unless I keep kes and do amritshak.

Yes this is the same line that the RSS employ me and other Babeh to push. It's quite clever really given that Dhan Dhan Baba Ravidas Ji Maharaj shloks are within the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj meaning that only Sikhs can truly consider themselves as Ravidassia but now my friends at Dera Ballan have successfully split a large percentage of erstwhile Sikhs away from the Panth - which should help push Sikhs into a minority in Punjab by the 2021 census.

I would like to learn about these things slowly, but I kinda understand why my cousin sister went and married a ravidassia against family wishes.

Great that's one less Sikh to start with and future generations separated away from the Sikh Panth by Dera Ballan.

Too right, that mainstream SIKHS ARE DIVIDED.

Yes this must be encouraged. Local Gurdwara's where there is a united Sangat must be discouraged. The push for only one Gurdwara in every pind in Punjab must be stopped. That way by the 2021 census Sikhs can be made a minority in Punjab.

I've seen the discussions and divisions on here, and because I'm not even a proper sikh, I haven't signed up.

Good. By making sehajdhari Sikhs feel unwelcome in the Panth we weaken the Sikhs demographically.

it disgusts me that there are this many double standards amongst todays Sikhs.

Get used to it baby as this is the trojan sword via which we hope to wipe this Sikh Panth out for our RSS masters.

What do I say when someone asks "what kind of girl will you want to marry and where would you get married?"   Do I just say, I don't belong anywhere because I'm neither here or there according to pompous 

That's exactly what I want to you to say, think and feel. The more Sikhs we alienate like you the better

 

 

[S1ngh]

above both replies () are from the same person even though they have different username.

[Guest confused.upset.lost]

20 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

bro in the Days of the Gurus ALL sikhs had charan amrit to dedicate themselves to their Guru ji, current Khande di Amrit was made by Guru Gobind Singh ji to replace that tradition as there would be no more Human forms of Guru Sahiban .

I wouldn't say that khande amrit was to replace, but it was much bigger.  to establish and make official. Also charan amrit is misunderstood and it wasn't about washing feet, but about Naam charan. I know this because I had it in my previous life (I've had past life regression sessions many times)

The true amrit is made from Gurbani .

Isn't it made from shabad?  Shabad isn't a written word. shabad is heard inside you. it's the dhun and vibration that Guru Nanak ji describes.

We keep kesh because we accept divine Will/Hukham  even at the basic level i.e. in our bodies.

It's a shame that most Sikhs just parade and show they ACCEPT divine hukam, but they refuse to LIVE their life by Hukam. Exercise their manmat free-will to dictate to others they are not Sikhs because they have not shak amrit. To judge people and to play God's role is Hukam?  what does the below mean -  To judge others?

ਨਾਨਕ ਪਰਖੇ ਆਪ ਕਉ ਤਾ ਪਾਰਖੁ ਜਾਣੁ ॥
Nānak parkẖe āp kao ṯā pārakẖ jāṇ.
O Nanak, if someone judges himself, only then is he known as a real judge

 

Sikhi is seperate from Punjabi culture the prejudice is not from sikhi but the punjabi/Indian cultural influence .

Wrong, The prejudice IS from within Sikhs.

I wouldn't have wrote my first post if it wasn't. I can prove to you with many of my examples of being at the receiving end of prejudice from Sikhs. They do it to exclude me and other non-amritdharees. Just like derriere talking @TheeTurbanator, who is a pompous bully, thinks he's the holier than thou.

why would you be ashamed of being a sikh? that doesn't make sense to me ...sikhi is the best, people are the problem so don't blame sikhi for human failures to live up to it .

I'm not ashamed of being a sikh, but fellow amritdharees are ashamed of including me as one. They can't even take the fact that my parents(non-amritdhari) have anhad shabad/naam because they do serious bhagti.

Ajeet is getting a hard time because he currently being a hypocrite by being engaged to an innocent girl when he knows his truth ...many folks here want him to be truthful to his folks so it doesn't trap an innocent party in a situation she has no clue about .

Now, you are just foolishly defending the predjudice members that have called him all the homa-gay swear words under the sun. Those insults have nothing to do with the girl.

everyone is still travelling along the path , having amrit is just getting into the school of sikhi you still have to live and learn  it is a first step , some people are ahead and some have a ways to go but we are all hopefully moving onwards ...

That's the best thing you've said.

 

 

[jkvlondon]

sikhi that Guru ji gave us is pure, impartial to all, there is no place for jaat paat arguments , you seem to think that falliable humans equal infalliable sikhi ...just like those who say sikhi is dying , it's not, just we are all failing to live up to its uccha vichar.

I knew that amrit is from shabad Guru as manjis and pirdis also distributed charan amrit back in times past in far flung places . My father also explained how guru ke charan are washed and drunk by bhagti naam simran in a loving way.

sikhi teaches us to live and die in truth , so why should anyone claim sikhi and yet go against that spirit ? those who curse and do nindiya will pay for it , that is the universal law why should I be justifying anyone ? Akal Purakh has made us all, in light of our karams we have to travel this life and face obstacles , it is our challenge to rise above the distractions and find true north towards our Master nothing else matters. We have been told to advise brothers and sisters to stay away from doing wrong as part of our familial duty , ultimately he will do what he will ...

as for not accepting you I accept you as Gursikh of my Guru Pita ji , if you clear your own heart of hatred towards those who have less understanding of Guru ji's bachans , they are still to learn that pride in jaat is nothing in Darbar of Akal Purakh. I KNOW that people can be non-amritdhari and still have divine kamai , my Nani ji was such a soul , she had partak darshan of Guru Teg Bahadur ji  , she still did her banian every day of her life, sehaj Paaths etc despite having to wait for my Nana ji to be ready for amrit . But she did keep her kesh and lived as a amritdhari person would , in discipline . In all it took 70 years for my Nana ji to be ready and then she was rewarded with Amrit sanchar but amrit was living in her long before .

 

[BhForce]

7 hours ago, Guest confused.upset.lost said:

I wouldn't say that khande amrit was to replace, but it was much bigger.  to establish and make official. Also charan amrit is misunderstood and it wasn't about washing feet, but about Naam charan. I know this because I had it in my previous life (I've had past life regression sessions many times)

Wow, just a few posts ago, you were a poor, innocent mona worried about being called a haraamzada, and now you're an expert on Khanda amrit, charnamrit, Sikh history, theology, etc. Oh, and also, you remember your previous lifetimes? To think I felt sorry for you and was actually going to post a sympathetic note.

What in the world is naam charan?

If you remember your past lives, and your parents have anhad naad, I guess you're set. You don't even need Guru ji. Guru ji just must be dispensable for you.

Oh, I forgot that there was another element to the SGPC definition of a Sikh: having faith in the amrit of the 10th Guru. That doesn't mean you have to have taken it, just that you have faith in it. Which would have to mean that you don't hate it, or think it's useless.

But you obviously seem to, so I guess you wouldn't qualify.

[BhForce]

7 hours ago, Guest confused.upset.lost said:

I'm not ashamed of being a sikh, but fellow amritdharees are ashamed of including me as one. They can't even take the fact that my parents(non-amritdhari) have anhad shabad/naam because they do serious bhagti.

I would have sympathized with you regarding the pompous attitude of some amritdharis before you started in the direction of saying Amrit is useless.

No bhagti is truly possible without Satguru, although everybody calls himself a bhagat:

ਭਗਤੁ ਭਗਤੁ ਕਹੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਈ ॥

Bhagath Bhagath Kehai Sabh Koee ||

Everyone calls himself, ""Devotee, devotee.""

ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਨਾਮਿ ਨ ਲਗੈ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥

Bin Sathigur Bhagath N Hovee Naam N Lagai Piaar ||

Without the True Guru, there is no devotional worship, and no love of the Naam, the Name of the Lord.

ਸਲੋਕ ਵਾਰਾਂ ਤੇ ਵਧੀਕ (ਮਃ ੩) (੩੯):੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੪੧੭ ਪੰ. ੧੩ 
Salok Vaaraan and Vadheek Guru Amar Das

 

Some people may claim to do bhagti without the Satguru, but it can't truly be done without the Guru:

ਮਨਮੁਖ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਵਿਣੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ਰਾਮ ॥

Manamukh Bhagath Karehi Bin Sathigur Vin Sathigur Bhagath N Hoee Raam ||

The self-willed manmukhs practice devotional rituals without the True Guru, but without the True Guru, there is no devotion.

ਸੂਹੀ (ਮਃ ੩) ਛੰਤ (੨) ੩:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੭੬੮ ਪੰ. ੧੭ 
Raag Suhi Guru Amar Das

 

You have to be a Gurmukh to do bhagti:

ਸੋ ਭਗਤੁ ਜੋ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਹਉਮੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਜਲਾਇਆ ਰਾਮ ॥

So Bhagath Jo Guramukh Hovai Houmai Sabadh Jalaaeiaa Raam ||

Those devotees who become Gurmukh burn away their ego, through the Word of the Shabad.

ਸੂਹੀ (ਮਃ ੩) ਛੰਤ (੨) ੧:੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੭੬੮ ਪੰ. ੧੦ 
Raag Suhi Guru Amar Das

 

I won't bother denying that your parents may be hearing some sort of sounds when they sit down and close their eyes.

But that doesn't mean they've reached Sachkhand.

 

About bhagats, it is said they erase their personal desires:

ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਵਹਿ ਜਿਨ ਗੁਣ ਅਵਗਣ ਪਛਾਣੇ ਰਾਮ ॥

Har Bhagath Karehi Vichahu Ap Gavavehi Jin Gun Avagan Pashhanae Ram ||

They worship the Lord in devotion, and eradicate self-conceit from within themselves; they understand merits and demerits.

ਪੰਨਾ ੩੩੧ 
Raag Suhi Guru Amar Das

 

So if your parents have eradicated their ego, then why do they not accept Guru ji's command to take Amrit?

 

[Guest Sat]

On 5/25/2018 at 7:19 AM, Guest Pakhand said:

The reason Sikhs don't allow people of other faiths to get married through an Anand karaj is because they are being pakhandi and promising to follow Guru when they clearly aren't going to. But what about those Sikhs who don't practice sikhi and bow to Guru Ji promising to follow Guru Ji when they obviously aren't going to practice sikhi either? Should we allow them an Anand karaj? How can we stop others who don't practice sikhi to not go to an Anand karaj but those Sikhs who are already being pakhandi by calling themselves sikh carry out even more pakhand by doing the same thing as non Sikhs at an Anand karaj?

 

please give your honest answers. Time we discussed these topics rather wait for those who don't care in power to not discuss them. 

Admin Note: Deleted. Please have discussion in a civilized manner.

[Guest RollsPhantom]

Realistically it is already a empty ritual. I work as a driver of luxury wedding cars, I see maybe 2 - 3 couples on a weekly basis get married in the gurdwaras and then go off get drunk at there receptions. 

[GurjantGnostic]

12 hours ago, Guest RollsPhantom said:

Realistically it is already a empty ritual. I work as a driver of luxury wedding cars, I see maybe 2 - 3 couples on a weekly basis get married in the gurdwaras and then go off get drunk at there receptions. 

Nothing gifted to humans can be protected from humans. For those that are true, it still serves its true purpose. 

[ipledgeblue]

On 5/28/2018 at 1:12 AM, BhForce said:

But on what basis do you so this? Don't take this in the wrong way. Just some friendly prodding to uncover stuff which I may not be aware of.

Probably different? Based on history granths or just speculation?

Very true. But the main point showed by Guru Nanak ji was rejection of parikarma of the "sacred" fire in favor of parikarma of sacred Gurbani.

I think we can perhaps look at naamdharis as another route to see if they have kept any Laavan rehit as well. I know they don't do prakarma around Adi Gur Granth Sahib for Laavan. I don't know if there are other sampradaiye or sects we can look at as well.

Is there any authentic ceremony that Dals have preserved?