India war Pakistan bomb India

[Ranjeet01]

54 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

thats also whats called brown-nosing. 

They knew how to appease the ruling class during various empires. Thats it ! Is that a talent ??

Sikhs just knew how to call a spade a spade ? we didn't had chaturai in us . I wonder if thats a moral principle or is it a burden ?

I , like most sikhs used to believe it was the former , but now I am beginning to wonder if Sikhs have always burdened themselves with it . Perhaps compromising with the ruling class would have save us a lot in history , but then again, if you're going to bow your head to avoid collateral damage to your people,  then you can't wear a turban on your head, like the hindus don't wear any longer ! 

Brahmins have a better understanding of politics. 

Since they created the caste system they have an intrinsic understanding of hierarchies,  who is at the top of the pyramid, who holds the power, who to appease etc.

I wouldn't call it a talent but it definitely has been a survival mechanism. 

[MisterrSingh]

1 hour ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

thats also whats called brown-nosing. 

They knew how to appease the ruling class during various empires. Thats it ! Is that a talent ??

Sikhs just knew how to call a spade a spade ? we didn't had chaturai in us . I wonder if thats a moral principle or is it a burden ?

I , like most sikhs used to believe it was the former , but now I am beginning to wonder if Sikhs have always burdened themselves with it . Perhaps compromising with the ruling class would have save us a lot in history , but then again, if you're going to bow your head to avoid collateral damage to your people,  then you can't wear a turban on your head, like the hindus don't wear any longer ! 

I don't think the history we're taught by our theologians does us any favours. Aside from a tiny, select few who realised the Truth, was the rank and file "Sikh" society truly any different in morals and worldview to what we're seeing in contemporary times? Or were people content in the idea of coasting along by referring to themselves as Sikhs for purposes of identity whereas in reality, beneath the skin, they weren't so different to their Brahmin and the Mohammedan neighbours? 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

I don't think the history we're taught by our theologians does us any favours. Aside from a tiny, select few who realised the Truth, was the rank and file "Sikh" society truly any different in morals and worldview to what we're seeing in contemporary times?

I feel puratan sikhs who lived very uncomfortable lives yet lived in god's hukam were altogether separate community if compared to us. Imagine them coming somehow and seeing us in 21st century how we have become now ! I am sure they will be aghast 

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Or were people content in the idea of coasting along by referring to themselves as Sikhs for purposes of identity whereas in reality, beneath the skin, they weren't so different to their Brahmin and the Mohammedan neighbours? 

 

might have happened a lot during Maharaja Ranjit Singh's time . Many like traitor Gulab Singh and other hindus like him used to dress in a very sikh way , but believing in same old beliefs under the skin.

Same might have happened to an extent during british'ers period when sikhs were valued as martial race and rewarded.

[MisterrSingh]

10 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

I feel puratan sikhs who lived very uncomfortable lives yet lived in god's hukam were altogether separate community if compared to us. Imagine them coming somehow and seeing us in 21st century how we have become now ! I am sure they will be aghast 

might have happened a lot during Maharaja Ranjit Singh's time . Many like traitor Gulab Singh and other hindus like him used to dress in a very sikh way , but believing in same old beliefs under the skin.

Same might have happened to an extent during british'ers period when sikhs were valued as martial race and rewarded.

Read the accounts of Punjabi society from before and during the human lifetimes of our Guru Sahibs. You'll begin to notice some relatable and uncomfortable parallels. Again, a minority of unshakeable believers doesn't constituent everyone. The era when Sikhs were hunted and claimed as bounty is not representative of our entire history. Sikhs began with the first person "converted" to -- for argument's sake -- Sikhi by Pehle Paatshah. You're tackling this issue too emotionally.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Read the accounts of Punjabi society from before and during the human lifetimes of our Guru Sahibs. You'll begin to notice some relatable and uncomfortable parallels. Again, a minority of unshakeable believers doesn't constituent everyone. The era when Sikhs were hunted and claimed as bounty is not representative of our entire history. Sikhs began with the first person "converted" to -- for argument's sake -- Sikhi by Pehle Paatshah. You're tackling this issue too emotionally.

It was the teaching of "Pehle Paatshah" that led certain believers to become "unshakeable" . The seeds of everything related to Sikhism were sown back then during first guru. What followed was just an expanse of this seed into a big tree we see today and from time to time, certain prominent people have martyred themselves for this cause. 

Is it simply emotional or also historical that our people we remember in ardas daily were dismembered , broken on wheels , sawn alive , scalped , etc ?

Can you imagine a person not peeing in his pants when faced with such circumstances, unless he's a naam abhyaasi gursikh who has given up on comforts of life and has accepted death as inevitable ?

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Read the accounts of Punjabi society from before and during the human lifetimes of our Guru Sahibs. You'll begin to notice some relatable and uncomfortable parallels

can you please detail further what exactly you mean 

[MisterrSingh]

6 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

can you please detail further what exactly you mean 

Jesus Christ, why are you making this such a struggle? 

Okay, how are you still here if EVERY Sikh worth a damn martyred themselves back in the day? How did your ancestors manage to make their way to the modern era? Were they not prudent, lucky, or -- and here's something that may shock you -- desired self-preservation before any idealistic notions of dying for Guru and Faith entered their minds? Do you not wonder whether some Sikhs are "just" Sikhs in the same way Hindus are just Hindus, and Muslims are Muslims? What about the hundreds or thousands who slipped away on that day in 1699 when heads were demanded? Did they suddenly stop identifying as Sikhs? What if the Sikhs alive today are those who descended from such individuals? Perhaps that goes to explain the dire straits we find ourselves in, because when any Sikh worth a darn does emerge, he or she invariably ends up losing their life. What remains are the dregs. Think before you reply. You are seriously beginning to annoy me with your inability to see beyond the incendiary emotion you're leading with.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Jesus Christ, why are you making this such a struggle? 

Okay, how are you still here if EVERY Sikh worth a damn martyred themselves back in the day? How did your ancestors manage to make their way to the modern era? Were they not prudent, lucky, or -- and here's something that may shock you -- desired self-preservation before any idealistic notions of dying for Guru and Faith entered their minds? Do you not wonder whether some Sikhs are "just" Sikhs in the same way Hindus are just Hindus, and Muslims are Muslims? What about the hundreds or thousands who slipped away on that day in 1699 when heads were demanded? Did they suddenly stop identifying as Sikhs? What if the Sikhs alive today are those who descended from such individuals? Perhaps that goes to explain the dire straits we find ourselves in, because when any Sikh worth a darn does emerge, he or she invariably ends up losing their life. What remains are the dregs. Think before you reply. You are seriously beginning to annoy me with your inability to see beyond the incendiary emotion you're leading with.

Good lord, did you even read before replying what I said ?

where did I say EVERY sikh martyred himself ? what about the saying of sikh women in mughal prisons  "mannu asaadi daatri, assi manu de soye, jeyo jeyo mannu wadd da, assi doon sawaaye hoye" (Mir mannu is our sickle, and we his grass, the more he chops us, the more we grow) . Is this statement not emotionally driven ?

A "rationalist" like you might ask how were the grass of sikhs growing if their kids were being butchered in front of their eyes.

But the faithful or should you say "emotional" ones knew their kids will be reborn back stronger . 

And btw you yourself acknowledged most sikhs today are trash as the pure ones often end up becoming eyesores for rulers 

 

EDIT ---------------------------

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Were they not prudent, lucky, or -- and here's something that may shock you -- desired self-preservation before any idealistic notions of dying for Guru and Faith entered their minds? 

This "prudence" is what mughals and other powers of the day tempted sikhs with ! "forget about your religion. save your life. YOLO. we give you money, power and women" . but they chose death , often in ghastliest of ways . 

So by your logic above, the well known martyrs of sikh faith were not being prudent enough ? perhaps the ones who did escape were the ones who never were captured by the enemy troops . 

OR PERHAPS , I will go on my mystical side again and say "the ones who got martyred were the ones who were chosen or perhaps prepared by guru for spilling their blood for strengthening the sikh cause" but I am sure such mystical views of thinking are sure to irate you lol

BTW, what was shocker for me is you're amritdhari and you choose to neglect portions of sikh history 

[MisterrSingh]

Bas kar, there's you lusting over benders your entire life, and you're talking to me about spilling blood and Sikh history. What did you think Singhs would've done with you if they'd discovered you eyeing them up in the jungles, lol? 

I think we've got a "lost in translation" thing going on here. I'm not writing essays to explain myself, because I'm certain the problem is arising from your end. Don't try to twist this scenario to denigrate my beliefs and my faith in the path I've chosen. You're painting with broad strokes whereas I'm trying to be a little more subtle and considered. Clearly, you're struggling with the concept. 

Give it a rest. I'm not interested.

 

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Bas kar, there's you lusting over benders your entire life, and you're talking to me about spilling blood and Sikh history. What did you think Singhs would've done with you if they'd discovered you eyeing them up in the jungles, lol? 

I think we've got a "lost in translation" thing going on here. I'm not writing essays to explain myself, because I'm certain the problem is arising from your end. Don't try to twist this scenario to denigrate my beliefs and my faith in the path I've chosen. You're painting with broad strokes whereas I'm trying to be a little more subtle and considered. Clearly, you're struggling with the concept. 

Give it a rest. I'm not interested.

 

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself

 

Shame on you, for picking in someone's sexuality . Its amritdharis like you who 're the real cause of downfall of the panth 

Apart from your eloquent english , which itself is merely because you grew up with the language in the west and not because of your specially acquired talent in the language , you're just like rest of sardars : a stupid, convenient tool and above all canon fodder .