'I'm divorced, so Sikh men don't want me'

[dallysingh101]

2 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

We live in a community where the source of authority is handed to the female.

This has to change. 

Maybe we should acknowledge the fact that Panjabans can be the most obstinate, stubborn creatures around, and I say this having been around women of many different cultures and not just stuck in my own community. 

Now if this steely drive was directed by intelligence and a wider love for the panth, it would take us to another place, but it never really (or rarely) is. Instead it's used for personal whims - which can cause absolute havoc. Having a unbending confidence in yourself when you aren't the most circumspect of creatures can only lead to a spreading of dysfunction. Especially if you have authority and control over other people's lives. You even see this characteristic with a lot of girls that get groomed or used. When they first get into their perceived 'relationship' you can't tell them anything - if you try they scoff in your face - only to realise the ugly truth when it is too late. 

Same with the plethora of mental, control freak mothers we have, and the consequent over-representation of weak-willed momma's boys we have in the panth. 

On the flipside we can't deal with this by suddenly becoming overbearing blokes (as well intentioned as this may seem), this will just lead to more puerile, self-destructive backlashes by certain jananeena. To do what you suggest above requires serious tact and intelligence and a good grasp of female psychology. CP will be invaluable for this probably, but so will evolutionary psychology and actual ground level experience. 

[Wicked Warrior]

4 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

I know a Singh who threw away an ostensibly "perfect" marriage with a fantastic young Singhni because she had the temerity to give birth to 2 baby girls. His mother instigated a campaign of propaganda and division between her son and the wife, which eventually led to him throwing his wife and his baby daughters out of the house. 

And yet the sad truth is that it is the man who determines the sex of the baby. The Y-chromosome is found only in men. 

This behaviour is prevalent in muslim culture - if the wife gives birth to a girl, the wife is blamed, emotionally and verbally abused (and often beaten). 

If Sikhs are doing the same thing, this behaviour needs to be rooted out. Gurdwaras should be perfect for this but I’m guessing in this day and age, Zee TV and the likes would be better!

[MisterrSingh]

40 minutes ago, Wicked Warrior said:

And yet the sad truth is that it is the man who determines the sex of the baby. The Y-chromosome is found only in men. 

This behaviour is prevalent in muslim culture - if the wife gives birth to a girl, the wife is blamed, emotionally and verbally abused (and often beaten). 

If Sikhs are doing the same thing, this behaviour needs to be rooted out. Gurdwaras should be perfect for this but I’m guessing in this day and age, Zee TV and the likes would be better!

It takes an incredibly astute, wise, and far-seeing man to be capable of recognising the contrasting forces vying for his attention and their desire to exert control and influence over him in a domestic situation. It takes an even more exceptional individual to then resist such attempts without destroying relationships AND then ultimately nurture a positive and cohesive family environment. How many Sikh guys do you honestly know who can do even the basics for themselves, much less achieve the feats I've described above? Also, it has very little to do with intelligence and education, because in this day and age, academic prowess is not a marker for wisdom and insight if it ever was. It's about soul and heart.

[dallysingh101]

38 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

I Also, it has very little to do with intelligence and education, because in this day and age, academic prowess is not a marker for wisdom and insight if it ever was. It's about soul and heart.

I think only a fool thinks academic education is any sort of indication for astuteness or success in this area. It can actually be a hindrance sometimes actually.  I mean how many hoity toity apnay families do you meet that have kids that live secret double lives under their noses - go to uni and see...... 

It's probably a more intuitive, innate social perceptiveness that appears to be useful (or one learned through osmosis). Sure, certain aspects of psychology might aid, but there are plenty of people who have no or little education who do very well in maintaining a cohesive family. 

 

Quote

This behaviour is prevalent in muslim culture - if the wife gives birth to a girl, the wife is blamed, emotionally and verbally abused (and often beaten).

I don't know if this is true. I grew up and am around sullay. I don't see this. They just generally accept the will of Allah in this department from what I can see. And they sorted out their issues with wayward kurian (in the UK anyway) A LONG TIME AGO (in the early 90s - when our lot were busy getting sharabi and doing bhangra in hordes like it was going out of fashion).

Our lot are much worse in this department and the sad truth is that it is usually some overbearing matriarch that is responsible for this most of the time. And our young jananian are conflicted about this, because on one hand they don't want to break the unspoken but deeply rooted, girl code about women sticking together against oppressive patriarchy, whilst on the other, they are the ones who suffer the most at the M-I-L hands.

The truth is that M-I-Ls of other communities generally have much more respect for, and sensitivity towards any young janani coming into the family than apneean bibian, who seem to go effing mental with insecurity and in control-freak mode very rapidly. Any sign of backbone in the incoming kuri is seen as sedition towards the established matriarchy that needs to be quickly and firmly stamped out. And this IS an issue that has been affecting us for so long that the nau-sus dysfunctional dynamic has become deeply embedded in our folklore as evidenced in many folk songs. Point blank - even a sulli bibi doesn't appear to find accepting someone from another community/culture (who has converted) as a daughter into the family, as many apnee bibian -  who clearly struggle to accept another apnee into their family as a true daughter. In the middle of all this is usually some fudhoo of an invertebrate child-man.  But what about the matriarch's husband too? They are usually such a pajama that they themselves witness all this and just keep their mouths shut. 

Too many of these about amongst our 'bundhay':

                      Big girls blouse

 

Pajama

[MisterrSingh]

44 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

I think only a fool thinks academic education is any sort of indication for astuteness or success in this area. It can actually be a hindrance sometimes actually.  I mean how many hoity toity apnay families do you meet that have kids that live secret double lives under their noses - go to uni and see...... 

It's probably a more intuitive, innate social perceptiveness that appears to be useful (or one learned through osmosis). Sure, certain aspects of psychology might aid, but there are plenty of people who have no or little education who do very well in maintaining a cohesive family. 

I definitely think a large part of is innate, but elements can be learned if one's fortunate enough to be self aware and observant, and there's a desire to live a particular type of life that errs on the side of mutual respect, shaanti and honour (in the best sense of the word, not what it's come to be recognised in recent times). If someone's inner life exists purely on a one-dimensional superficial level which is subsequently channelled into similarly limited external actions, i.e. eat, 5hit, fornicate, laugh, cry, and die, then it's near impossible to get through to that type of person. 

[dallysingh101]

20 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

I definitely think a large part of is innate, but elements can be learned if one's fortunate enough to be self aware and observant, and there's a desire to live a particular type of life that errs on the side of mutual respect, shaanti and honour (in the best sense of the word, not what it's come to be recognised in recent times). If someone's inner life exists purely on a one-dimensional superficial level which is subsequently channelled into similarly limited external actions, i.e. eat, 5hit, fornicate, laugh, cry, and die, then it's near impossible to get through to that type of person. 

What about another perspective too. That we all have differing needs for stimulus, and sometimes these variations can be enormous. Individual personality differences too. These things seem to be rooted in biology. But saying that, even our adaptability (those who have it) is probably a consequence of a particular type of neurological wiring?  

Sometimes it's not a good idea for a guy who is more introversion inclined to be married to a heavy extrovert. Or someone who isn't particularly materialistic to be hitched to someone who is very status orientated. Or for an autocrat to be married to someone who clearly has an independent streak in them. I think some of the marriage problems we see in our community stem from mismatches in this department too. What's actually is shocking to me, is just how often it goes right in our community given the sort of systematic way parents usually arrange these things. 

Now if a girl has been raised up with a degree of trust and freedom and hasn't abused that - like certain apneean do as soon as they are out of sight of their parents and wider community (there will be some!); now for her to go into a family of imperious control freaks will be like hell on earth. She may begrudgingly tolerate it, awaiting a time when she can escape from the in laws with her husband, but it may well cause a complete breakdown of the relationship. And how many times do we hear this story - honestly - how many times.  

From my experience people's thinking is usually VERY DIVERSE. This appears to be heavily influenced by biology and random factors. That's why you get brothers who've grown up in the same house turning out to be completely different to each other in adulthood. LIke Jagraj Singh and his brother Sunny Hundal for example. This is indicative of wider human trends. Whenever you meet another human they have a unique personality profile - that's what we are dealing with. The more we know about what we are walking into, the better the odds in my opinion. 

[Ranjeet01]

4 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Maybe we should acknowledge the fact that Panjabans can be the most obstinate, stubborn creatures around, and I say this having been around women of many different cultures and not just stuck in my own community. 

Now if this steely drive was directed by intelligence and a wider love for the panth, it would take us to another place, but it never really (or rarely) is. Instead it's used for personal whims - which can cause absolute havoc. Having a unbending confidence in yourself when you aren't the most circumspect of creatures can only lead to a spreading of dysfunction. Especially if you have authority and control over other people's lives. You even see this characteristic with a lot of girls that get groomed or used. When they first get into their perceived 'relationship' you can't tell them anything - if you try they scoff in your face - only to realise the ugly truth when it is too late. 

Same with the plethora of mental, control freak mothers we have, and the consequent over-representation of weak-willed momma's boys we have in the panth. 

On the flipside we can't deal with this by suddenly becoming overbearing blokes (as well intentioned as this may seem), this will just lead to more puerile, self-destructive backlashes by certain jananeena. To do what you suggest above requires serious tact and intelligence and a good grasp of female psychology. CP will be invaluable for this probably, but so will evolutionary psychology and actual ground level experience. 

I think most of our men want an easy life so they defer authority.

Women will constantly test men and a lot of blokes think "sod that, can't be bothered.just want some peace"

Then women will resent their husbands because they did not stand up for themselves.

Our Punjabans actually want tough dominant men. But they want you get it yourself. 

They want their husbands to say "No" instead of "Yes Dear"

[dallysingh101]

35 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

I think most of our men want an easy life so they defer authority.

Women will constantly test men and a lot of blokes think "sod that, can't be bothered.just want some peace"

Then women will resent their husbands because they did not stand up for themselves.

Our Punjabans actually want tough dominant men. But they want you get it yourself. 

They want their husbands to say "No" instead of "Yes Dear"

How much worse is that if a man's got an overbearing mother to deal with as well. This on top of all the silly mind games around 'what the community will think' gibberish. 

How much conviction can you have in yourself and your decisions when you have to factor in multiple other people's opinions, including flannah timka in the Gurdwara who you only see for 2 hours a week if you're lucky. 

Some things that need to be overhauled are within our culture itself probably. It's like our own culture 'checkmates' guys before they even make a move. 

[Ranjeet01]

11 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

How much worse is that if a man's got an overbearing mother to deal with as well. This on top of all the silly mind games around 'what the community will think' gibberish. 

How much conviction can you have in yourself and your decisions when you have to factor in multiple other people's opinions, including flannah timka in the Gurdwara who you only see for 2 hours a week if you're lucky. 

Some things that need to be overhauled are within our culture itself probably. It's like our own culture 'checkmates' guys before they even make a move. 

A man needs to stand up to his mother as well when he has to.

Problem you have is the son moves away from his family in favour of his wife. The wife proceeds to ramp up her manipulation. 

Woman never really leave the pekheh behind but a husband always leaves behind his family.

A man should not take his mother's side or wife's side, he should take his own side.

If anything the mother will in the long term respect their son more if they did.

In regards to opinions, they are like a**ho***s. Everyone has got one.

I heard this saying:

"When you are 18, you are worried what everyone thinks, when you are 40, you don't care what anyone thinks. When you are 60, you realise that no one thought about you at all"

[puzzled]

me and my friend at work have these real talks lol   she tells me that women have far more influence on a man than a man does on a woman. she said women are aware of how men enjoy a position of "authority" in relationships so women create the impression that their man is in authority but in reality its the woman who is in charge. she said women can have absolute complete control over the relationship and have her man under her influence, she said all women have this in them and are aware of it but the degree of influence that the woman wants on her man is completely her choice.  some women decide not to exercise this control at all while some use it to a certain extent while many go the full length. 

she told me that men are naive and are not aware of what women can do, she said they easily believe and fall for women. in her own words (not mine) she said women are crafty and manipulative.  she said the bible also says this      

this is what a woman said to me!    im glad i have a friend who i can have "real talks" with lol