200 year old sikh build being demolished tonight!!

[puzzled]

I think kar sewa is just filling their pockets, their gnna demolish the old structure but how much of the donations that they collected are they actually gnna use on the new structure?

And how is demolishing something and replacing it with another building kar sewa?  Thats just demolishing and replacing!  I thought kar sewa would be repairing.

[FreshMind13]

Why can they not just restore it? That is also Kar Seva.

If these Babas really want their name on the building and want $$$ in their pocket, restoring Historical buildings still gives them the same outcome. What incentive to they have to destroy it?

There has to some agenda to destroy our heritage.

[MisterrSingh]

3 minutes ago, FreshMind13 said:

Why can they not just restore it? That is also Kar Seva.

If these Babas really want their name on the building and want $$$ in their pocket, restoring Historical buildings still gives them the same outcome. What incentive to they have to destroy it?

There has to some agenda to destroy our heritage.

They probably don't even know such a thing is possible. It's just about bulldozing it down, erecting something in its place, and receiving the plaudits thereafter. There's no love or grace or nurturing involved. And these people are meant to lead us to a brighter future? What a crock of bakwaas. Clueless. Absolutely clueless.

[FreshMind13]

Just now, MisterrSingh said:

They probably don't even know such a thing is possible. It's just about bulldozing it down, erecting something in its place, and receiving the plaudits thereafter. There's no love or grace or nurturing involved. And these people are meant to lead us to a brighter future? What a crock of bakwaas. Clueless. Absolutely clueless.

With the money, knowledge, and connections SGPC has, they should be hiring experts to preserve these buildings and solidify them for the coming centuries.

SGPC had to bring international scientists to make sure the Dukh Bhanjani Beri didn't DIE at Sri Darbar Sahib due to the Marble around it (which was put by Kar Seva Babas), the tree roots couldn't get enough nutrients. Why SGPC can't do the same with buildings baffles me.

There are also many other Historical trees in other gurdwaras that are either dead or dying, but no one cares as they aren't popular gurdwaras like Sri Darbar Sahib.

[dallysingh101]

14 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

They probably don't even know such a thing is possible. It's just about bulldozing it down, erecting something in its place, and receiving the plaudits thereafter. There's no love or grace or nurturing involved. And these people are meant to lead us to a brighter future? What a crock of bakwaas. Clueless. Absolutely clueless.

I think the thinking is that massive, imposing buildings impress and bring in more visitors and thus are a good thing compared to smaller, older structures. 

[MisterrSingh]

6 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

I think the thinking is that massive, imposing buildings impress and bring in more visitors and thus are a good thing compared to smaller, older structures. 

The crass and ostentatious nature of it flies in the face of the values we're supposed to value and encourage as Sikhs. This may upset some people but this is a prime example of a lesser cultural mindset. I suppose it's a knock-on effect of the wider culture of the environment in which issues like these occur. I just don't see where aspects of our religious teachings suddenly disappear to when it comes to these issues. It really is picking and choosing what to believe and how to behave dependent on circumstances and whims.

[dallysingh101]

5 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

The crass and ostentatious nature of it flies in the face of the values we're supposed to value and encourage as Sikhs. This may upset some people but this is a prime example of a lesser cultural mindset. I suppose it's a knock-on effect of the wider culture of the environment in which issues like these occur. I just don't see where aspects of our religious teachings suddenly disappear to when it comes to these issues. It really is picking and choosing what to believe and how to behave dependent on circumstances and whims.

A big part of it is that lack of sophistication thing I bang on about. 

You have to have a certain level of 'culture' and intelligence to actually grasp how important physical heritage is. We don't have it. We think 'culture' is a tumbhi and bhangra in bright clothes.

Look at how many manuscript gutkas/maharaj sahib's have been 'cremated' over the years. Look at how priceless heritage like puratan shasters are cared for - or protected.

Look at how many manuscripts we lost in 1984.  No one thought to make copies in all the years? 

Okay, we do have some efforts in the right direction in the west by the diaspora - but generally in our culture backhome - these things are beyond their comprehension it seems. 

And people might get butt-hurt at what I'm about to say but a big part of this is having people who have convinced themselves they are 'high caste' who only really recently (in generational terms) were unlettered farmers in fields. They don't have that subtle appreciation of arts and craft and literature like genuinely old money does. They prefer other conspicuous and (let's be frank) outright crass shows of status. Subtlety and sophistication isn't something that comes natural to them.  It just seems like poor people who've got some money and power now and aren't too sure of what to do with it. But it's not all completely hopeless as Panjab Digital Library shows. 

Plus let's be honest, the idea of religious artifacts and buildings being used as income generators isn't exactly a new one to our lot. Certain brothers are smart. They know how simple minded and pious other brothers can be in the face of these things - heck even I would throw money money at these things in the past before I realised what the bigger picture was/is. 

There is logic and incentive behind these culturally destructive moves - as short sighted as they are. 

[Ranjeet01]

21 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

A big part of it is that lack of sophistication thing I bang on about. 

You have to have a certain level of 'culture' and intelligence to actually grasp how important physical heritage is. We don't have it. We think 'culture' is a tumbhi and bhangra in bright clothes.

Look at how many manuscript gutkas/maharaj sahib's have been 'cremated' over the years. Look at how priceless heritage like puratan shasters are cared for - or protected.

Look at how many manuscripts we lost in 1984.  No one thought to make copies in all the years? 

Okay, we do have some efforts in the right direction in the west by the diaspora - but generally in our culture backhome - these things are beyond their comprehension it seems. 

And people might get butt-hurt at what I'm about to say but a big part of this is having people who have convinced themselves they are 'high caste' who only really recently (in generational terms) were unlettered farmers in fields. They don't have that subtle appreciation of arts and craft and literature like genuinely old money does. They prefer other conspicuous and (let's be frank) outright crass shows of status. Subtlety and sophistication isn't something that comes natural to them.  It just seems like poor people who've got some money and power now and aren't too sure of what to do with it. But it's not all completely hopeless as Panjab Digital Library shows. 

Plus let's be honest, the idea of religious artifacts and buildings being used as income generators isn't exactly a new one to our lot. Certain brothers are smart. They know how simple minded and pious other brothers can be in the face of these things - heck even I would throw money money at these things in the past before I realised what the bigger picture was/is. 

There is logic and incentive behind these culturally destructive moves - as short sighted as they are. 

You conflate everything with caste. 

Not everything has to be being a Jat.

 

[dallysingh101]

1 minute ago, Ranjeet01 said:

You conflate everything with caste. 

Not everything has to be being a Jat.

 

Most of what passes for Panjabi 'culture' these days is though isn't it. 

[Ranjeet01]

9 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Most of what passes for Panjabi 'culture' these days is though isn't it. 

What passes for Punjabi culture is agricultural culture.

Now if the Jatts are the best representative of that culture it's because they are the dominant agricultural culture. 

The fact the urban sophisticated Punjabi culture was probably dominated by Khatris and they have not stepped up since partition is not the Jatts fault.

The Khatris moved on to Delhi and Mumbai.

That Bollywood culture is built by the urban Hindu Punjabi Khatri from pre-partition Punjab.

You cannot blame the Jatts for that.