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puzzled

200 year old sikh build being demolished tonight!!

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the whole of gurdwara tarn taran complex should be preserved 

"In 1768 Sardar Budh Singh Virk of Singhpuria Misl and Maharaja Jassa Singh Ramgarhia of Ramgarhia Misl joined hands to rebuild the Darbar Sahib Tarn Taran. Which then was in a shape of a traditional mud building.

Later Maharaja Ranjit Singh Sher-e-Panjab (1799–1839), who visited Darbar Sahib Tarn Taran from 1802-1837, reconstructed the present Darbar Sahib Tarn Taran in 1836-1837 and also completed the work of the Parikarma which had been left unfinished by the two Sardars Singhpuria Misl and Ramgarhia Misl. Sher-e-Panjab gold-plated the Darbar Sahib Tarn Taran, as he did with the Harmandir Sahib at Amritsar. Artisans were called in by the Maharaja of Panjab Kingdom to decorate the inside of Darbar Sahib Tarn Taran.

When Maharaja Nau Nihal Singh, the grandson of Sher-e-Panjab, came to Tarn Taran, he built a minara (tower) at the end of the sarovar"

 

minar built by maharaja nau nihal singh

Image result for tarn taran

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1 hour ago, puzzled said:

thats just shifting the blame on others, so you saying tharkhans, khatris and everyone else started drinking because of the jatts?  lmao 

Dude, it's the truth. It's even more complex than that because my first job (by pure fate) was in this industry that certain brothers had dominated by then. I don't know where you live, but when I was growing up, apnay from a certain jaat dominated the booze industry (in amassive way!) whether it be in the number of Off Licenses or the the actual supply from warehouses. I really enjoyed my time working there to be honest but there is a bigger picture we need to look at in hindsight. But we have to start thinking strategically and out of the box now. 

ਅਜ ਕੱਲ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਇੰਜ ਲਗਦਾ ਵੀ ਜੱਟ ਵੀਰ ਦੁਸ਼ਮਣ ਤੇ ਮਤੱਰ ਦਾ ਫਰਕ ਨਹੀਂ ਪਛਾਣ ਸਕ ਦੇ। ਜੇੜ੍ਹੇ ਸਾਡੇ ਵਿਰੋਧੀ ਹਨ ਨੂੰ ਦੋਸਤ ਸਮਜ ਦੇ ਨੇ।  ਲੱਲੂ ਹੋਣ ਦਾ ਸਮਾ ਨਹੀ। ਬਹੋਤ ਪੋਤੈਨਸ਼ਲ ਖਤਰਾ ਹੈ। ਤਿਖਾ ਰੈਣ ਦੀ ਜਰੂਰਤ ਹੈ। ਏਥੇ ਵੀ ਗੋਰੇ ਜਸੂਸ ਸਾਡੀਆਂ ਗੱਲਾਂ ਦਾ ਚੇਤਾ ਰੱਖ ਦੇ ਨੇ।

 

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1 hour ago, dallysingh101 said:

Dude, it's the truth. It's even more complex than that because my first job (by pure fate) was in this industry that certain brothers had dominated by then. I don't know where you live, but when I was growing up, apnay from a certain jaat dominated the booze industry (in amassive way!) whether it be in the number of Off Licenses or the the actual supply from warehouses. I really enjoyed my time working there to be honest but there is a bigger picture we need to look at in hindsight. But we have to start thinking strategically and out of the box now. 

ਅਜ ਕੱਲ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਇੰਜ ਲਗਦਾ ਵੀ ਜੱਟ ਵੀਰ ਦੁਸ਼ਮਣ ਤੇ ਮਤੱਰ ਦਾ ਫਰਕ ਨਹੀਂ ਪਛਾਣ ਸਕ ਦੇ। ਜੇੜ੍ਹੇ ਸਾਡੇ ਵਿਰੋਧੀ ਹਨ ਨੂੰ ਦੋਸਤ ਸਮਜ ਦੇ ਨੇ।  ਲੱਲੂ ਹੋਣ ਦਾ ਸਮਾ ਨਹੀ। ਬਹੋਤ ਪੋਤੈਨਸ਼ਲ ਖਤਰਾ ਹੈ। ਤਿਖਾ ਰੈਣ ਦੀ ਜਰੂਰਤ ਹੈ। ਏਥੇ ਵੀ ਗੋਰੇ ਜਸੂਸ ਸਾਡੀਆਂ ਗੱਲਾਂ ਦਾ ਚੇਤਾ ਰੱਖ ਦੇ ਨੇ।

 

I'm pretty sure you've stated before that your dad used to put alcohol in your mouth when your were a kid, and another female member on here whose family are from Kenya also has said the same.  We're the jatts making your fathers do that? 

You need to aknowledge that's alcohol is a part of every punjabi communities culture. 

Look over to Pakistan and paki punjabis have a reputation for being drinkers in pakistan and jatts are a tiny irrelevant % in paki punjab.

Kenyan sikhs even drank in Kenya and continued doing the same when they got booted out. Kenyan sikhs clearly are more liberal and out going, the UK never made them like that they already were like that.  I know for a fact that alcohol is a big problem in the Kenyan sikh community and that's got nothing to do with jatts. 

The first sikhs in the UK were bhatras and they all used to go to the pub, in fact that's were udham singh used to go and talk to the Irish dealers. These pub going bhatras arrived in the UK way before the jatts did. 

This whole culture of filthy punjab I songs was actually started back in the 60s 70s and 80s were majority of the singers were non jatts. Some of the most filthy songs were sung by Ranjit kaur a tharkhan lady along with her musalmans marasi singing partner mohd Sadiq

Chamkila ask sung sleazy songs and he was a chamars while his wife and singing partner amarjot was a tharkhan 

These people begun the culture of filthy lyrics, they set the trend.

Sikhs in Delhi are are seen as typical punjabis with their alcohol and balle balle culture yet majority of them are khatris/aroras ,  nothing to do with jatts. 

Blaming everything on jatts don't help the issues that all these Other communities have. 

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Here's Kenyan sikhs doing some balle balle in front of the Kenyan president all the way back in the 70s      

kalasingha.jpg

 

Daler mehndi a Khatri, bhatra or whatever he is has made a entire living doing balle balle in front of non sikh audience, is that related to jatts as well?  Don't think so ... 

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30 minutes ago, puzzled said:

Here's Kenyan sikhs doing some balle balle in front of the Kenyan president all the way back in the 70s      

kalasingha.jpg

 

Daler mehndi a Khatri, bhatra or whatever he is has made a entire living doing balle balle in front of non sikh audience, is that related to jatts as well?  Don't think so ... 

Tharkhans back in Kenya used to call Africans "boy".

How racist can you get?

Kenyan Tharkhans call Sikhs from Punjab "janver " which means animal.

 

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I'm going to reveal my ignorance on the subject, but was alcohol as big a problem for us back in medieval times? I keep reading conflicting accounts.

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44 minutes ago, puzzled said:

I'm pretty sure you've stated before that your dad used to put alcohol in your mouth when your were a kid, and another female member on here whose family are from Kenya also has said the same.  We're the jatts making your fathers do that? 

You need to aknowledge that's alcohol is a part of every punjabi communities culture. 

Look over to Pakistan and paki punjabis have a reputation for being drinkers in pakistan and jatts are a tiny irrelevant % in paki punjab.

Kenyan sikhs even drank in Kenya and continued doing the same when they got booted out. Kenyan sikhs clearly are more liberal and out going, the UK never made them like that they already were like that.  I know for a fact that alcohol is a big problem in the Kenyan sikh community and that's got nothing to do with jatts. 

The first sikhs in the UK were bhatras and they all used to go to the pub, in fact that's were udham singh used to go and talk to the Irish dealers. These pub going bhatras arrived in the UK way before the jatts did. 

This whole culture of filthy punjab I songs was actually started back in the 60s 70s and 80s were majority of the singers were non jatts. Some of the most filthy songs were sung by Ranjit kaur a tharkhan lady along with her musalmans marasi singing partner mohd Sadiq

Chamkila ask sung sleazy songs and he was a chamars while his wife and singing partner amarjot was a tharkhan 

These people begun the culture of filthy lyrics, they set the trend.

Sikhs in Delhi are are seen as typical punjabis with their alcohol and balle balle culture yet majority of them are khatris/aroras ,  nothing to do with jatts. 

Blaming everything on jatts don't help the issues that all these Other communities have. 

Wasn't Mohd Sadiq Kuldip Manak?

What Dally does not realise is that in the olden days Bhangra for Jatts wasn't seen as particularly masculine and dancing was not really done.

Activities like Kabaddi and wrestling were more common.

Even the UK Bhangra scene, there are a whole bunch of non Jatts like Bally Sagoo (Tharkhan), Safri Boys (Tharkhan), DCS (mixed). Johnny Khalsi of the Dhol Foundation is also Tharkhan. 

Another porkie Dally mentioned was that 35 years ago, drinking was not that common at weddings.

I remember the 1980s quite well and if anything the drinking culture was worse back then.

The amount of fights I uses to see. That is because they uses to keep the booze on the tables. 

Nowadays it is far more controlled because they have the drinks behind the bar and people are only allowed glassies rather than bottles. 

Two of the worst punch ups I observed were between Tharkhans. 

People of all castes who indulge in this stuff are idio** but thankfully people on the whole of all castes are becoming more sensible I believe. 

 

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7 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

I'm going to reveal my ignorance on the subject, but was alcohol as big a problem for us back in medieval times? I keep reading conflicting accounts.

What happens is that a lot of people who worked hard physically liked to unwind and that is where alcohol played a part. It's a release. 

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32 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

What happens is that a lot of people who worked hard physically liked to unwind and that is where alcohol played a part. It's a release. 

I read somewhere in passing a while ago that, genetically, we're one of the races that's least suited to the adverse affects of alcohol. I think we're broadly in the same category as various Far East communities, such as the Japs, for unsuitability for sharaab. I think the Scandinavian races and certain Germanic tribes are at the opposite end of the scale to us, which I took to be a remnant of their Viking genes. Those guys would knock back the stuff like it was Vimto, lol.

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2 hours ago, puzzled said:

I'm pretty sure you've stated before that your dad used to put alcohol in your mouth when your were a kid,

A bit of brandy was a 'desi remedy' for when you had colds. 

That wasn't uncommon then. 

1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

I'm going to reveal my ignorance on the subject, but was alcohol as big a problem for us back in medieval times? I keep reading conflicting accounts.

It was very common. If you read Falcon's guide to army recruitment of the late 1800s, goray actually believed that amritdharis were allowed to drink 'spirituous liquids'. This was probably based on ground level observations of the time. 

 

1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Tharkhans back in Kenya used to call Africans "boy".

How racist can you get?

Kenyan Tharkhans call Sikhs from Punjab "janver " which means animal.

 

 

How do you know so much? And you keep going on like I'm from Kenya. If what you are saying is true. Then it is disgraceful and the people involved should be ashamed. Can you talk about how chuhray and chammars are treated in Panjabi pends right now as well please. 

By the way. Go to building sites. Pendu Panjabis still call people 'boyee' to this day. lol

 

Quote

Look over to Pakistan and paki punjabis have a reputation for being drinkers in pakistan and jatts are a tiny irrelevant % in paki punjab.

That's a lie isn't it. There are more pak juts than Sikh ones.

kalasingha.jpg

Whose Traditional dress is that that they are wearing? Come on. Fess up. Plus, from what I've seen, there are plenty of juts from kenya too. I don't see no pointy starched pags here. It might be them? 

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8 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

I read somewhere in passing a while ago that, genetically, we're one of the races that's least suited to the adverse affects of alcohol. I think we're broadly in the same category as various Far East communities, such as the Japs, for unsuitability for sharaab. I think the Scandinavian races and certain Germanic tribes are at the opposite end of the scale to us, which I took to be a remnant of their Viking genes. Those guys would knock back the stuff like it was Vimto, lol.

Not too sure about that.

There has always been a caste/profession of alcohol distillers in Punjab called "Kalal" or something of that nature. 

I think it is how our people have traditionally drunk. 

There is a big difference in drinking something like beer and spirits like whisky.

In the west beer and ale were a preferred beverage because the drinking water was not safe. 

Our people in Punjab who drink look down on beer and prefer whisky which is always in it's alcohol content. 

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7 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

A bit of brandy was a 'desi remedy' for when you had colds. 

That wasn't uncommon then. 

It was very common. If you read Falcon's guide to army recruitment of the late 1800s, goray actually believed that amritdharis were allowed to drink 'spirituous liquids'. This was probably based on ground level observations of the time. 

 

 

How do you know so much? And you keep going on like I'm from Kenya. If what you are saying is true. Then it is disgraceful and the people involved should be ashamed. Can you talk about how chuhray and chammars are treated in Panjabi pends right now as well please. 

By the way. Go to building sites. Pendu Panjabis still call people 'boyee' to this day. lol

 

That's a lie isn't it. There are more pak juts than Sikh ones.

kalasingha.jpg

Whose Traditional dress is that that they are wearing? Come on. Fess up. Plus, from what I've seen, there are plenty of juts from kenya too. I don't see no pointy starched pags here. It might be them? 

I think the correct term for Churra is Mazhabi. You cannot even call Churra a Churra in Punjab as it seen as offensive. 

Nobody has a problem with Mazhabi, they are hard decent strong and made fine soldiers. Even us big oafish Juts would admit that. 

I know plenty about your Kenya brethren Duggu. 

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@puzzled

I think the issue is that we want to keep our historical sites as authentic as possible. That means not marble washing everything. 

At this moment of time, Punjab feels it needs to modernise and they do not have the sentimentality to maybe provide restoration to our historical sites.

Punjab in it's current phase is very materialistic and people vote with their wallets .

My understanding is that TPTB in Punjab need to be persuaded that it is in their interests to keep our historical heritage as authentic as possible as keeping authenticity will bring them bigger profits. 

That is the only language they understand. 

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The baba has apologized  you can read his written apology. This really has upset a lot of people. Think people are finally waking up.

https://sikhsiyasat.net/2019/04/01/copy-of-apology-letter-issued-by-baba-jagtar-singh-karsewa-for-damaging-tarn-taran-sahib-darshani-deori/

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