Why do Sikhs use family names?

[Guest GuestSingh]

1 hour ago, Redoptics said:

It's the only way you know not to get jiggy with people in your blood line.

if u find a match u can ask for their pind/previous surnames before it goes any further.

[puzzled]

historically only when people took amrit then they took singh/kaur as their surnames. for eg  many followers of guru gobind singh ji who i guess didnt take amrit still had their family names, like Todar Mal, Moti Ram Mehra, even Bhai Nand Lal, in Bhai Nand Lals writings he just writes Nand Lal and not Singh,  though some say that he took Amrit in his later life and became a Singh. Its basically the same today the vast majority non amritdharis use their family names.   Like how Bhai Daya Ram became Bhai Daya Singh after taking Amrit 

On my passport im Singh but at my school and dr surgery i was my family name lol     

 

[Redoptics]

35 minutes ago, GuestSingh said:

if u find a match u can ask for their pind/previous surnames before it goes any further.

Ok today we all drop our surnames , we are just kaur and singhs, fast forward 300 years, do you think anyone would know their families surname?

[puzzled]

33 minutes ago, Redoptics said:

Ok today we all drop our surnames , we are just kaur and singhs, fast forward 300 years, do you think anyone would know their families surname?

Guru Gobind Singh ji mentions his bloodline and ancestors in Dasam Granth sahib ji

most people will not forget their family names even if they start using singh/kaur   its kinda human nature/habit to cling onto that, where they came from etc     Even some Paki Punjabi families still know what their original family surnames were before they converted to islam,  my mums friend who has a arabic surname now told my mum their original family name is benipal 

[MrDoaba]

There isn't really a concept of surname from an Indic perspective, it's a western naming custom. What has become surname today is actually gotra or clan. Which became prevalent when people began to immigrate to the west. Sometimes the surname is one based on family profession/occupation - not really seen this amongst Punjabis though.

If you look at names pre-Sikhi you'll find ambiguous 'surnames' such as Ram, Chand, Laal, Kumar. Quotation marks used because these are not surnames. People didn't use their gotra back then as a surname either.

I've looked at quite a few old land registry records, and I've never seen anyone use their actual gotra. You'll either see just Singh or the above names I've mentioned.

If you look at passports of bajurg who came to the UK, majority just have Singh and Kaur. But often you'll also notice where it says surname it's blank. Even Singh isn't a surname nor is it a middle name.

It's smart to use your surname today, for identification etc. There's nothing wrong with. As per Sikhi you're not supposed to be proud of your lineage or heritage. If by using your gotra one gets proud, then one is a w@nker. However if you're just using it because you consider it pertinent in this globalised world and nothing more, it's fine. It's only a problem if you believe in jaat paat nonsense in the first place.

 

Gurbar Akaal!

[dallysingh101]

7 minutes ago, MrDoaba said:

There isn't really a concept of surname from an Indic perspective, it's a western naming custom. What has become surname today is actually gotra or clan. Which became prevalent when people began to immigrate to the west. Sometimes the surname is one based on family profession/occupation - not really seen this amongst Punjabis though.

If you look at names pre-Sikhi you'll find ambiguous 'surnames' such as Ram, Chand, Laal, Kumar. Quotation marks used because these are not surnames. People didn't use their gotra back then as a surname either.

I've looked at quite a few old land registry records, and I've never seen anyone use their actual gotra. You'll either see just Singh or the above names I've mentioned.

If you look at passports of bajurg who came to the UK, majority just have Singh and Kaur. But often you'll also notice where it says surname it's blank. Even Singh isn't a surname nor is it a middle name.

It's smart to use your surname today, for identification etc. There's nothing wrong with. As per Sikhi you're not supposed to be proud of your lineage or heritage. If by using your gotra one gets proud, then one is a w@nker. However if you're just using it because you consider it pertinent in this globalised world and nothing more, it's fine. It's only a problem if you believe in jaat paat nonsense in the first place.

 

Gurbar Akaal!

It's only handy for us to avoid inbreeding in my opinion. 

[MrDoaba]

6 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

It's only handy for us to avoid inbreeding in my opinion. 

I still remember back in the day when you'd receive forwards on the old phones....this one is still funny:

Sikhs call it Rakhri

Hindus call it Rakhsha Bandhan

Muslims call it Valentines Day.

[Akalifauj]

1 hour ago, MrDoaba said:

There isn't really a concept of surname from an Indic perspective, it's a western naming custom. What has become surname today is actually gotra or clan. Which became prevalent when people began to immigrate to the west. Sometimes the surname is one based on family profession/occupation - not really seen this amongst Punjabis though.

If you look at names pre-Sikhi you'll find ambiguous 'surnames' such as Ram, Chand, Laal, Kumar. Quotation marks used because these are not surnames. People didn't use their gotra back then as a surname either.

Gotra were used in 10th Guru period to identify people.  Rattan Singh bhangu makes this clear in his book.  Its not due to the west.  Only thing the west did was make people write it down on documents.   Famously the Brar gotra is mentioned in rattan Singh bhangu book.  And it's done to identify that group of people. It was already prevalent.   In English it's called last name and in india its call gotra or clan or however they classified themselves distinctly from other people. The west again, just made them write it down.  People not writing it down in india is irrelevant because some wanted to classify themselves as proper Sikhs so they dropped it on paper.  Like the lap dog of Indian government balbir Singh jathedar of buddha dal.  However they had a deep connection with the last name/gotra and were very proud.  Guru Gobind Singh ji was Guru Gobind Rai before taking amrit.  Rai identifies him to a specific clan.  There was nothing wrong with the Guru keeping the last name/gotra/clan as Rai.  The Guru didn't attach any spiritual or emotional value to it.  It was simply there as a pointer.  

So disregard this child's ignorance.   Hes talking out of his you know what.

[puzzled]

In guru nanak prakash bhai santokh singh mentions the different clans, like i think he mentions  bhai bala's, and then he mentions how guru nanaks family are from the bedi clan and when guru nanak dev ji was born all the bedi ladies came to see him, and all the devis disguised themselves as the bedi ladies and visited etc 

In pinds you'll notice that people with the same surname normally all live in the same lane.   In my fads pind theres around 15 houses with the same surname as ours and their all clustered together,  then further down are all the bhatt  houses 

 

[puzzled]

My mum said that my baba/great grandad from my nanke side his name was Ram Rakha, but Rakha was not his surname  my nanke surname/gotra is another name   but his name was Ram Rakha. But when my nani got married into that family   she changed his name from Ram Rakha to Ram Singh  on paper LOL      My nani was very religious and came from a family that knew a lot about Sikhi. All the men in my nanis family were sardars.  My nani also new how to read and write which wasnt that common among pind women in those days. She learnt how to read Gurmukhi and Urdu before the partition  so she used to read lots of Sikh books.  So one of the first things she did when she got married into my nanke house was change her father in laws name  from Ram Rakha to Ram Singh  lol 

She was hugely inspired by Guru Gobind Singh 

Another thing, she used to really frown upon Sikh women getting their noses pierced