Unforgivable sin in Sikhism?

[LookingForMyPath]

  Hi everyone, I’m new to the forum and new to Sikhism.  I have questions about sin and forgiveness. 

  I was reading a bit of the Guru Granth Sahib online and trying to get a feel for it.  I saw this: 

Page 1152:

ਨਿੰਦਕ ਕਾ ਕਹਿਆ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਮਾਨੈ ॥  निंदक का कहिआ कोइ न मानै ॥  Ninḏak kā kahi▫ā ko▫e na mānai.  No one believes what the slanderer says.

ਨਿੰਦਕ ਝੂਠੁ ਬੋਲਿ ਪਛੁਤਾਨੇ ॥  निंदक झूठु बोलि पछुताने ॥  Ninḏak jẖūṯẖ bol pacẖẖuṯāne.  The slanderer tells lies, and later regrets and repents.

ਹਾਥ ਪਛੋਰਹਿ ਸਿਰੁ ਧਰਨਿ ਲਗਾਹਿ ॥  हाथ पछोरहि सिरु धरनि लगाहि ॥  Hāth pacẖẖorėh sir ḏẖaran lagāhi.  He wrings his hands, and hits his head against the ground.

ਨਿੰਦਕ ਕਉ ਦਈ ਛੋਡੈ ਨਾਹਿ ॥੨॥  निंदक कउ दई छोडै नाहि ॥२॥  Ninḏak ka▫o ḏa▫ī cẖẖodai nāhi. ||2||  The Lord does not forgive the slanderer. ||2||

  When I saw this I did a search for the word “slander” and there were many other harsh statements towards slanderers, particularly those who slander saints. To me, the above sounds like you’re not forgiven even if you repent? I looked at SikhiWiki and their page on “Ninda” and I still wasn’t sure what to think after reading it.  

  My first question is, is this sin (slander/slander of a saint) unforgivable, even without repentance? 

  My 2nd question is, is ANY sin in Sikhism unforgivable, even if you repent? 

[genie]

18 hours ago, LookingForMyPath said:

  Hi everyone, I’m new to the forum and new to Sikhism.  I have questions about sin and forgiveness. 

  I was reading a bit of the Guru Granth Sahib online and trying to get a feel for it.  I saw this: 

Page 1152:

ਨਿੰਦਕ ਕਾ ਕਹਿਆ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਮਾਨੈ ॥  निंदक का कहिआ कोइ न मानै ॥  Ninḏak kā kahi▫ā ko▫e na mānai.  No one believes what the slanderer says.

ਨਿੰਦਕ ਝੂਠੁ ਬੋਲਿ ਪਛੁਤਾਨੇ ॥  निंदक झूठु बोलि पछुताने ॥  Ninḏak jẖūṯẖ bol pacẖẖuṯāne.  The slanderer tells lies, and later regrets and repents.

ਹਾਥ ਪਛੋਰਹਿ ਸਿਰੁ ਧਰਨਿ ਲਗਾਹਿ ॥  हाथ पछोरहि सिरु धरनि लगाहि ॥  Hāth pacẖẖorėh sir ḏẖaran lagāhi.  He wrings his hands, and hits his head against the ground.

ਨਿੰਦਕ ਕਉ ਦਈ ਛੋਡੈ ਨਾਹਿ ॥੨॥  निंदक कउ दई छोडै नाहि ॥२॥  Ninḏak ka▫o ḏa▫ī cẖẖodai nāhi. ||2||  The Lord does not forgive the slanderer. ||2||

  When I saw this I did a search for the word “slander” and there were many other harsh statements towards slanderers, particularly those who slander saints. To me, the above sounds like you’re not forgiven even if you repent? I looked at SikhiWiki and their page on “Ninda” and I still wasn’t sure what to think after reading it.  

  My first question is, is this sin (slander/slander of a saint) unforgivable, even without repentance? 

  My 2nd question is, is ANY sin in Sikhism unforgivable, even if you repent? 

There's no sin that can not be forgiven by the creator waheguru with sincere repentance and renouncing old bad ways and sinful habits but some people just are beyond help so they will never change their ways and can never be saved in this lifetime. Even a murderer is forgiven and given salvation if we see the example where Guru Nanak Sahib Ji went around saving cannibal murderers and murderous invader king tyrants from wrong paths.

Guru Ka Nindak is one who slanders the Guru. And within our Guru (SGGS Ji) there are many saints. The Guru (who is the messenger of the creator) wont forgive slanderer of saints, because the saint it is the best of society who upholds the goodness of society and if you can slander the saints who teach religious knowledge, get people to do good deeds then there is no hope for you.

Nindak is one who slanders an innocent person, a dodgy person or someone you think is doing bad deeds but not proven then that is also considered a sin but can be forgiven with repentance. Nindya is gossiping and its a human habit to gossip but those who spread false malicious rumours about people are true Nindak's

Slandering is considered one of the worst sin sometimes worse than murder if its against SGGS Ji. If we judge in human society that murder is the worst crime possible and rape the next then in terms of Sikhi slander can be worse than both. As slandering can get innocent people a bad reputation effecting their life for no reason, they can even be killed, innocent communities persecuted and nations destroyed by plunged into war. Just need to look at Sikh history where some miscreants went around whispering things into the rulers ears and our precious Guru's and hero's got martyred and other innocent people got killed for made up rumours and slanders.

 

[LookingForMyPath]

Thank you for your response genie.  I guess I’m still a little confused.  I know you said in your first paragraph that any sin is forgivable, but most people won’t change their ways, but the scriptures I posted speak about someone’s who slandered and repented and still wasn’t forgiven.  And then in your 2nd paragraph it sounds to me like slandering a saint is NOT forgivable? Sorry if I’m being a little slow, I just want to make sure I understand correctly.  Thank you again for responding to my post. 

[Sat1]

4 hours ago, LookingForMyPath said:

Thank you for your response genie.  I guess I’m still a little confused.  I know you said in your first paragraph that any sin is forgivable, but most people won’t change their ways, but the scriptures I posted speak about someone’s who slandered and repented and still wasn’t forgiven.  And then in your 2nd paragraph it sounds to me like slandering a saint is NOT forgivable? Sorry if I’m being a little slow, I just want to make sure I understand correctly.  Thank you again for responding to my post. 

Has the above passage been translated properly?

[MokhamSingh]

On 5/10/2020 at 5:32 AM, LookingForMyPath said:

  Hi everyone, I’m new to the forum and new to Sikhism.  I have questions about sin and forgiveness. 

  I was reading a bit of the Guru Granth Sahib online and trying to get a feel for it.  I saw this: 

Page 1152:

ਨਿੰਦਕ ਕਾ ਕਹਿਆ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਮਾਨੈ ॥  निंदक का कहिआ कोइ न मानै ॥  Ninḏak kā kahi▫ā ko▫e na mānai.  No one believes what the slanderer says.

ਨਿੰਦਕ ਝੂਠੁ ਬੋਲਿ ਪਛੁਤਾਨੇ ॥  निंदक झूठु बोलि पछुताने ॥  Ninḏak jẖūṯẖ bol pacẖẖuṯāne.  The slanderer tells lies, and later regrets and repents.

ਹਾਥ ਪਛੋਰਹਿ ਸਿਰੁ ਧਰਨਿ ਲਗਾਹਿ ॥  हाथ पछोरहि सिरु धरनि लगाहि ॥  Hāth pacẖẖorėh sir ḏẖaran lagāhi.  He wrings his hands, and hits his head against the ground.

ਨਿੰਦਕ ਕਉ ਦਈ ਛੋਡੈ ਨਾਹਿ ॥੨॥  निंदक कउ दई छोडै नाहि ॥२॥  Ninḏak ka▫o ḏa▫ī cẖẖodai nāhi. ||2||  The Lord does not forgive the slanderer. ||2||

  When I saw this I did a search for the word “slander” and there were many other harsh statements towards slanderers, particularly those who slander saints. To me, the above sounds like you’re not forgiven even if you repent? I looked at SikhiWiki and their page on “Ninda” and I still wasn’t sure what to think after reading it.  

  My first question is, is this sin (slander/slander of a saint) unforgivable, even without repentance? 

  My 2nd question is, is ANY sin in Sikhism unforgivable, even if you repent? 

All sins can be forgiven by the creator. Some sins are more serious than others. The higher the sin, higher the punishment.

Even if you look at a worldly example. In a law court, some may get a verbal telling off. Some may get a suspended sentence. Some may need to go to prison for a very short time, some may need to go for a very long time.

It all depends on the severity of the crime, and the attitude of the offender. Some criminals will carry on with the crimes. Some will see the error of their ways, and make every effort to redeem themselves.

The creator is full of compassion and forgiveness, but the punishment has to be endured for committing sins...

[LookingForMyPath]

Sat1, I’m not sure because I only speak English, but the translation is from srigranth.org. 

[GurjantGnostic]

 

[Singh1989]

It's the Lord's way of installing in our heads "don't b stupid and slander." I mean I kno we all do it but what's important? Guru's words or our own minds? Instead of slandering that time can b used on other important stuff i.e. meditating or painting. 

Why slander? slander is a sin as it DOES have an impact on others. Sometimes the way we treat or greet people may  b different if we learn a thing or two about them. They may not even be that way! We just relied on wha sum1 told us about that person. 

Sins are kind of "I can forgive but not forget!" meaning in your next life expect a punishment (if not this life).. 

[Singh375]

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[Not2Cool2Argue]

On 5/11/2020 at 3:06 PM, LookingForMyPath said:

Sat1, I’m not sure because I only speak English, but the translation is from srigranth.org. 

Actually look at sukhamni sahib. A composition. It has a whole section dedicated to slanderers of saints and those who hurt the saints. After each pauri/stanza it says they can be forgiven if the saint requests it. And most saints are saintly enough to forgive their enemies.

Heres a link:

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=280&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=0