Are jatts the most useless people on the planet?

[MisterrSingh]

18 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

What's Jathera worship?

Doing pooja of Sidhu Moosewala.

[Ranjeet01]

21 minutes ago, proactive said:

This is quite interesting. While the Gurus taught us that our background was of less importance than what our actions and beliefs are, they never taught that we should actively hate our background. If people like Daily want to eradicate caste based discrimination then they need to understand what is caste and what is clan. It is easy for non-Jats to relegate their background and forget or even hate their own background because that background was always steeped in caste. The vast majority of non-Jats' ancestors suffered from caste based discrimination (apart from those Sikhs from the Khatri background) so they naturally want to forget their background and it is easy for them to do so.

But for Jats, it's different, our background is a part of our everyday life especially in rural Punjab. In any Punjabi village the Jats are all be related to each other because they are all descendants of a common ancestor or family group that founded the village many hundreds of years ago.  This is what is called patti in the village, a village could have two or three pattis. The next few villages around any particular village will also have been branches of the same family group. So if you live in the village your ancestral line is all around you and because your ancestors were never oppressed by the caste society and because they never wanted to be a part of the Manuvadi system then there is no great need to look down on your ancestors. Apart from a few villages who were founded by the same family group, you will also have a place which could be many miles away called your Jathera which is the original place from where your known ancestor came from.

The Gills will have their own Jathera, the Dhillons will have their own etc. Each Jat clan will have their own Jathera. So just as in many societies the knowledge of who your ancestors were is important and is passed down through the generations this is also what is passed down in each Punjab village. I doubt Daily could look back to more than 3-4 generations of his family, but because of the structure of the Jat village, I could possibly go back 10-15 generations quite easily. My own village, a village of Dhillon Jats was founded over 400 years ago, we know that the founding family of this village came from a village about 5 kms away to found this village. So as well as knowing that all the Jats in the village who are Dhillons are all descendants of a common ancestor of mine, I know that in the village 5 kms away we can find the descendants of our common ancestor's ancestors! So this shows how ingrained the clan and family descent is in Jats. What other person could go back to their village and know that 50-60% of a village of some 3000 people are all related to him and then the surrounding villages of similar numbers are also related to him?  And then if you want to even go back further, your very clan name links you to relatives who might live hundreds of miles away but who also have the same clan name. Dhillons are found in our Punjab,  West Punjab, Haryana, Western UP and some parts of Rajasthan and Madhya Pardesh. All these Dhillon are the descendants of either one common ancestor or a family group going back over a thousand if not more years. 

All the above which might be boring for non-Jats but which forms a large part of what the tribal identity of a Jat is. You can either negate all this and want Jats to disregard their clan identity because you believe that it is a caste and just the fact that he has an interest in his clan is tantamount to him being a casteist or you can understand what the attachment of a Jat is to his clan and accept that as long as his clan or tribe does not discriminate against any of Sikh then this does not make his a casteist. 

On a last point, I very much doubt that Daily who seem to be an expert on Jats known even 10% of what I wrote above, so in many way we can put his rants into that context. 

 

 

Interesting. 

So the main difference is that Jat is not really a caste but more like a tribal identity and Jats were always outside the caste system and Jats never really fitted in.

If this is the case, does that mean Jats never fitted in Varna system and took Brahmin authority.

Whereas the other groups that make up the Panth have a very relationship with the system. 

So the way a non Jat looks at it is coming from a different place from a Jat. 

So from perspective of a Non Jat when they see the "Jatt pride" since they come out of the hierarchy of the system may see it as "look we are better than you " whereas our Jats being self-centred bunch we can be are not bothered whether we are superior or inferior to anyone else as we are stuck in our own little world.

 

 

 

 

[proactive]

3 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Doing pooja of Sidhu Moosewala.

Is that some kind of lame joke? 

[Jacfsing2]

4 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Doing pooja of Sidhu Moosewala.

How you convert lol

19 minutes ago, proactive said:

This is the tribal religion that all Jats whether they are Sikh, Muslim or Hindu today practicised historically. It is a religion of ancestor worship which many tribal societies around the world practised in their own ways. 

 Dhanavaad  Ji.

[Jai Tegang!]

38 minutes ago, proactive said:

This is quite interesting. While the Gurus taught us that our background was of less importance than what our actions and beliefs are, they never taught that we should actively hate our background. If people like Daily want to eradicate caste based discrimination then they need to understand what is caste and what is clan. It is easy for non-Jats to relegate their background and forget or even hate their own background because that background was always steeped in caste. The vast majority of non-Jats' ancestors suffered from caste based discrimination (apart from those Sikhs from the Khatri background) so they naturally want to forget their background and it is easy for them to do so.

But for Jats, it's different, our background is a part of our everyday life especially in rural Punjab. In any Punjabi village the Jats are all be related to each other because they are all descendants of a common ancestor or family group that founded the village many hundreds of years ago.  This is what is called patti in the village, a village could have two or three pattis. The next few villages around any particular village will also have been branches of the same family group. So if you live in the village your ancestral line is all around you and because your ancestors were never oppressed by the caste society and because they never wanted to be a part of the Manuvadi system then there is no great need to look down on your ancestors. Apart from a few villages who were founded by the same family group, you will also have a place which could be many miles away called your Jathera which is the original place from where your known ancestor came from.

The Gills will have their own Jathera, the Dhillons will have their own etc. Each Jat clan will have their own Jathera. So just as in many societies the knowledge of who your ancestors were is important and is passed down through the generations this is also what is passed down in each Punjab village. I doubt Daily could look back to more than 3-4 generations of his family, but because of the structure of the Jat village, I could possibly go back 10-15 generations quite easily. My own village, a village of Dhillon Jats was founded over 400 years ago, we know that the founding family of this village came from a village about 5 kms away to found this village. So as well as knowing that all the Jats in the village who are Dhillons are all descendants of a common ancestor of mine, I know that in the village 5 kms away we can find the descendants of our common ancestor's ancestors! So this shows how ingrained the clan and family descent is in Jats. What other person could go back to their village and know that 50-60% of a village of some 3000 people are all related to him and then the surrounding villages of similar numbers are also related to him?  And then if you want to even go back further, your very clan name links you to relatives who might live hundreds of miles away but who also have the same clan name. Dhillons are found in our Punjab,  West Punjab, Haryana, Western UP and some parts of Rajasthan and Madhya Pardesh. All these Dhillon are the descendants of either one common ancestor or a family group going back over a thousand if not more years. 

All the above which might be boring for non-Jats but which forms a large part of what the tribal identity of a Jat is. You can either negate all this and want Jats to disregard their clan identity because you believe that it is a caste and just the fact that he has an interest in his clan is tantamount to him being a casteist or you can understand what the attachment of a Jat is to his clan and accept that as long as his clan or tribe does not discriminate against any of Sikh then this does not make his a casteist. 

On a last point, I very much doubt that Daily who seem to be an expert on Jats known even 10% of what I wrote above, so in many way we can put his rants into that context. 

 

 

This is very interesting stuff! Do you think the different castes that made up a village were ancestrally from the same group of people?? Over time the division of labour led to solidified classes? 

[proactive]

29 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Interesting. 

So the main difference is that Jat is not really a caste but more like a tribal identity and Jats were always outside the caste system and Jats never really fitted in.

If this is the case, does that mean Jats never fitted in Varna system and took Brahmin authority.

Whereas the other groups that make up the Panth have a very relationship with the system. 

So the way a non Jat looks at it is coming from a different place from a Jat. 

So from perspective of a Non Jat when they see the "Jatt pride" since they come out of the hierarchy of the system may see it as "look we are better than you " whereas our Jats being self-centred bunch we can be are not bothered whether we are superior or inferior to anyone else as we are stuck in our own little world.

 

 

 

 

The Jats were one of a number of tribes that invaded or migrated into south Asia. The Rajputs who are also similar to Jats came to south Asia before the Jats and they gained acceptance within the caste order and hence this is why Rajputs tend to be the biggest casteists compared to the Jats. Rajputs once they became a part of the caste order had to stop doing things such as widow remarriage, allowing their women to work in the fields and in many cases even the Rajputs stopped working in their own fields or did the least amount of work possible to get by because the pride of caste made them shun hard manual work. We all know the famous Sakhi of how the Rajputs of the hills refused to become Khalsa unless they received separate Amrit from the other castes. If the Jats were such casteists then they too would have wanted to not share the same bata as the other castes. Because of the Jats refusal to accept the Manuvadi caste order and comply with it dictates such as the non- remarriage of widows the Jats were never a part of the caste order. Being outside the caste order they were referred to as Shudars by the Brahmins and the other Hindu castes such as Rajputs. But the Jats never let this bother them, over time some Jats families used Brahmins from the Jats villages to take part in Hindu ceremonies such as conduct marriages but they never accepted the authority of the Brahmins. In fact in rural Punjab to refer to a Brahmin, the word you use is Pandit because the Punjabi word for Brahmin, Bahman is almost an insult. 

 

[proactive]

12 minutes ago, Jai Tegang! said:

This is very interesting stuff! Do you think the different castes that made up a village were ancestrally from the same group of people?? Over time the division of labour led to solidified classes? 

No, the Jat famiily group would have a laagi group such as Tarkhan, Dalit, Dhobi, Ghumar etc with them when they founded the village or they would invite such castes to come and live in their new village. These castes over time with their increase in population would move to other villages or go and settled in newly founded villages. This is how the Jat villages of Punjab were formed and their social structure created. The dalits who would mainly be field labourers were much more in number than the other laagis so they would have their own section of the village, the Jats had their own area and the other laagis because they were much less in number would have their houses interspersed in between the Jat houses. 

[dallysingh101]

22 minutes ago, proactive said:

No, the Jat famiily group would have a laagi group such as Tarkhan, Dalit, Dhobi, Ghumar etc with them when they founded the village or they would invite such castes to come and live in their new village.

Some of these skilled group's families would in due time naturally gravitate towards cities or mandis for obvious reasons (more demand for their skillsets, larger client bases).   

[dallysingh101]

41 minutes ago, Jai Tegang! said:

This is very interesting stuff! Do you think the different castes that made up a village were ancestrally from the same group of people?? Over time the division of labour led to solidified classes? 

Goray thought this, they mention it in some of the earlier colonial works. Plus it might explain some of the cross-overs in gotras?   

[dallysingh101]

Certain posters have illusions of grandeur from watching this type of garbage....lol!!!