Is "Sikhni" an appropriate word to refer to Sikh women?

[5aaban]

On 2/4/2022 at 3:35 PM, proactive said:

In Jagraon, we use both sawaray for morning, tarka is used for very early morning such as dawn. We use Aathan for afternoon, is your  usage JUAAK rather than JWAAK which we use in Jagraon? In many parts of Malwa the language did change after the partition mainly as those who had migrated in the early 1900s to the canal colonies of Lyallpur and  Montgomery migrated back to their ancestral villages in Malwa having had their language influenced by the decades of living in the canal colonies. This is especially true of Ludhiana where the 1947 refugees were settled back in their ancestral villages. 

Kameej is used for women's top, such as salwaar kaameej. Jhagga is for a man's shirt. The z sound becomes a j sound in Malwa. 

Changing  of 'z' to 'j' sound occurs in almost all rural Panjab dialects. This is a feature of rural Panjabi as the 'z' sound is not native to Panjab. Similarly, 'f' sound is pronounced as 'ph' by villagers. 

[proactive]

2 hours ago, 5aaban said:

Early morning can be Wadda Tarka. For us Athan is evening/sunset and Dupaira is afternoon. Both pronunciations of Juaak/Jwaak are used in Malwa. It depends on the speaker to pick the one they prefer. 

 

 

Regarding Dupaira, it is a left over from the way that time was measured in south Asia. The night and the day were both spilt into Pahars each having four Pahars of three hours each, these are also mentioned in Gurbani. The first Pahar of the day started at sunrise and last finished at sunset. So the first Pahar would start around 6am and the second Pahar would start at 9am to noon. So technically Dupaira which I assume is shortened form of Duja Pahara would be some time between 9am and noon. Unless of course Dupaira just means Do or Two Pahars in which case it could be anytime between 9am and 3pm. 

[5aaban]

On 2/4/2022 at 6:26 PM, proactive said:

Regarding Dupaira, it is a left over from the way that time was measured in south Asia. The night and the day were both spilt into Pahars each having four Pahars of three hours each, these are also mentioned in Gurbani. The first Pahar of the day started at sunrise and last finished at sunset. So the first Pahar would start around 6am and the second Pahar would start at 9am to noon. So technically Dupaira which I assume is shortened form of Duja Pahara would be some time between 9am and noon. Unless of course Dupaira just means Do or Two Pahars in which case it could be anytime between 9am and 3pm. 

Yes I'm aware of Pehars like Pehala Pehar. 

[Premi5]

7 hours ago, 5aaban said:

In Malwa it's Tarka for morning, Aathan for evening, Juaak instead of nianey 

 

Never heard Aathan, only shaam. My parents and extended family are from Ludhiana zila/Puadh mainly. But asked my Mum, and she said that she used to say aathan when growing up

4 hours ago, proactive said:

In Jagraon, we use both sawaray for morning, tarka is used for very early morning such as dawn. We use Aathan for afternoon, is your  usage JUAAK rather than JWAAK which we use in Jagraon? In many parts of Malwa the language did change after the partition mainly as those who had migrated in the early 1900s to the canal colonies of Lyallpur and  Montgomery migrated back to their ancestral villages in Malwa having had their language influenced by the decades of living in the canal colonies. This is especially true of Ludhiana where the 1947 refugees were settled back in their ancestral villages. 

Kameej is used for women's top, such as salwaar kaameej. Jhagga is for a man's shirt. The z sound becomes a j sound in Malwa. 

My Dad grew up in Jagroan, came here as teeenager. I agree tarhke is used for early morning. Never heard him say aathan (he left Jagroan to come here over 50 years ago, maybe got influenced by others in the UK including Doabe). Some of our Ludhiane family friends use 'jwaak' (which my parents laugh a little at) but my parents say juaak or bache or niyane. 

4 hours ago, 5aaban said:

Early morning can be Wadda Tarka. For us Athan is evening/sunset and Dupaira is afternoon. Both pronunciations of Juaak/Jwaak are used in Malwa. It depends on the speaker to pick the one they prefer. 

 

 

Never heard 'wadda tarhka' lol

4 hours ago, proactive said:

Isn't Beti used more as a term of respect by elders who are not the actual parents of the girl to refer to a girl? The parents would call her BETAY - plural of Beti and Beta - or maybe this could just be a urban usage rather than in rural areas. 

Girls can be called 'beta' or 'betay' if addressed first person, beti if third person

1 hour ago, 5aaban said:

Yes I'm aware of Pehers being used for time periods throughout South Asia like Pehla Peher. In present day Malwa, Dupaira is afternoon time and 9am is still considered morning. 

Never heard any time before 12pm as dupair/dupaire. 

We use 'tarhke' ; 'savere' (or sometimes 'subah'); dupaire; shaam; raat; adi raat to refer to general times. Din vele for daytime. Shaam (or rarely Sundaye vele for evening ) - I think, maybe getting confused

 

Is 'tarhka' or 'turhka' correct Panjabi  for seasoning ? We say 'tarhka' I think all Malwe mostly do, 'turhka' is Doaba and maybe the correct pronounciation like 'put' for 'dig' and 'chuk' for 'pick' rather than 'pat' and 'chak'

[5aaban]

On 2/4/2022 at 7:35 PM, Premi5 said:

Never heard Aathan, only shaam. My parents and extended family are from Ludhiana zila/Puadh mainly. But asked my Mum, and she said that she used to say aathan when growing up

My Dad grew up in Jagroan, came here as teeenager. I agree tarhke is used for early morning. Never heard him say aathan (he left Jagroan to come here over 50 years ago, maybe got influenced by others in the UK including Doabe). Some of our Ludhiane family friends use 'jwaak' (which my parents laugh a little at) but my parents say juaak or bache or niyane. 

Never heard 'wadda tarhka' lol

Girls can be called 'beta' or 'betay' if addressed first person, beti if third person

Never heard any time before 12pm as dupair/dupaire. 

We use 'tarhke' ; 'savere' (or sometimes 'subah'); dupaire; shaam; raat; adi raat to refer to general times. Din vele for daytime. Shaam (or rarely Sundaye vele for evening ) - I think, maybe getting confused

 

Is 'tarhka' or 'turhka' correct Panjabi  for seasoning ? We say 'tarhka' I think all Malwe mostly do, 'turhka' is Doaba and maybe the correct pronounciation like 'put' for 'dig' and 'chuk' for 'pick' rather than 'pat' and 'chak'

Aathan is an authentic word for evening in Malwa. Ludhiana isn't a good representation of Malwa.  

Beta/beti/betay is considered Hindi (leaning more towards formal or urban Panjabi).  Putt/Puttar/Dhi/Kudi are preferred. 

In Malwa and Majha dialects seasoning is called Tarhka. It's only in Doaba where it's called Turkha so both are correct depending on your region.  In Doaba, the 'i' sound is also changed to 'e' (e.g. Pind is pronounced 'Pend'). 

 

There's no right and wrong when it comes to this as everyone speaks differently. 

 

 

[dallysingh101]

11 hours ago, Jai Tegang! said:

i heard from a majhail dhadi that bebe was used for sister in older times. it's interesting how interchangeable these words are. We used to call our grandma bebe, while my doabia mates would call their's as bibi. Others i've heard use biji. 

Yeah that interchangeable thing is very interesting. My nani was frequently called biji by my mom and masi?

What I've realised from reading previous posts is that in one generation a families lexicon can easily change. My mom was reasonably educated (for her time) and knew how to write basic English, Hindi as well as Panjabi/Gurmukhi (I'd say nana ji was quite progressive in that respect given the time).

I realise now that the Panjabi used by my nani (who was completely illiterate) was much purer than my moms. Presumably down to mom being basically educated? I think Hindi words creep in? 

Nani would use nanh for eyes, mom aakh. Delhlay was also used for eyes. 

Kaalja for heart, whilst mom would use dil.

There were a few other things like that. 

It could flip though: Nani would use piaaz (which I presume is Farsi?) for onions whilst we would say guttay. 

Also I think that there is a lot of crossover between regions, because some of the words people say are from outside of Malwa were used at home. 

'ehkaanh' seems to be a true Malwa word too. As in: "Ehkaanh na kar!" 

[5aaban]

On 2/4/2022 at 11:59 PM, dallysingh101 said:

Yeah that interchangeable thing is very interesting. My nani was frequently called biji by my mom and masi?

What I've realised from reading previous posts is that in one generation a families lexicon can easily change. My mom was reasonably educated (for her time) and knew how to write basic English, Hindi as well as Panjabi/Gurmukhi (I'd say nana ji was quite progressive in that respect given the time).

I realise now that the Panjabi used by my nani (who was completely illiterate) was much purer than my moms. Presumably down to mom being basically educated? I think Hindi words creep in? 

Nani would use nanh for eyes, mom aakh. Delhlay was also used for eyes. 

Kaalja for heart, whilst mom would use dil.

There were a few other things like that. 

It could flip though: Nani would use piaaz (which I presume is Farsi?) for onions whilst we would say guttay. 

Also I think that there is a lot of crossover between regions, because some of the words people say are from outside of Malwa were used at home. 

'ehkaanh' seems to be a true Malwa word too. As in: "Ehkaanh na kar!" 

Yes, Hindi creeps in especially for technical terms. Eg ਟੱਬਰ is what uneducated/rural Panjabis would use while educated ones prefer ਪਰਿਵਾਰ. Dailay refers to the eyeballs, not eyes. Kaalja means liver but every Panjabi uses it for heart. 

Gandday, Gathay and Piaj/piaz are all used by Panjabis. Ehkaanh/aaikan, eyoon and aein are used in Malwa.  

 

 

 

[GurjantGnostic]

1 minute ago, 5aaban said:

Yes, Hindi creeps in especially for technical terms. E.g. Tabbar  is what uneducated/rural Panjabis would commonly use for family while educated ones preferred Parivaar (Hindi). 

If you’re from a rural background you will be familiar with these words. 

Delay are eyeballs I think not the actual eyes. Kaalja means liver but every panjabis uses it to refer to heart. 

We used Gandday. Pyaj/pyaz is also used by some rural Panjabis. 

Aikana (what you’re saying) is used by Malwai’s leaning on the eastern side. Western Malwa uses  “eyoon nah kar!” or “aein nah kar!”

 

That's interesting. 100 years ago, a little more, they thought the liver pumped blood. It's like the Punjabis were always right by using the word for liver for heart, if they were told that Kaalja pumps blood. 

[dallysingh101]

2 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

That's interesting. 100 years ago, a little more, they thought the liver pumped blood. It's like the Punjabis were always right by using the word for liver for heart, if they were told that Kaalja pumps blood. 

My nani said if you have to kill a pig/boar you have to stab it straight in the heart (?? Kaalja?) 

[Premi5]

21 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Yeah that interchangeable thing is very interesting. My nani was frequently called biji by my mom and masi?

What I've realised from reading previous posts is that in one generation a families lexicon can easily change. My mom was reasonably educated (for her time) and knew how to write basic English, Hindi as well as Panjabi/Gurmukhi (I'd say nana ji was quite progressive in that respect given the time).

I realise now that the Panjabi used by my nani (who was completely illiterate) was much purer than my moms. Presumably down to mom being basically educated? I think Hindi words creep in? 

Nani would use nanh for eyes, mom aakh. Delhlay was also used for eyes. 

Kaalja for heart, whilst mom would use dil.

There were a few other things like that. 

It could flip though: Nani would use piaaz (which I presume is Farsi?) for onions whilst we would say guttay. 

Also I think that there is a lot of crossover between regions, because some of the words people say are from outside of Malwa were used at home. 

'ehkaanh' seems to be a true Malwa word too. As in: "Ehkaanh na kar!" 

ekan/okan/jikan/kikan

idaahn/jiddahn/kiddahn

ivve/ovve/jivve/kivve

istaran/ostaran/jistaran/kistaran

inj/unj