whats happening?

[Ksinghni]

waheguroo....

of course that is our hukam.

nevertheless, I still like that winston quote!

btw Im not trying to say that its RIGHT to have enemies but just that its an intresting quote thats all. - dont shoot me!

[H4RPAL]

"Dont mean to be funny, but i think all this issue to do with bibian bleaching waxing etc is an issue that they need to deal with themselves internally."

I think this is spot on- us males will not really appreaciate the scope of the argument to the extent females will. I too believe it is for them to discuss internally, but while doing so be cautious of certain questionable views that are related to this discussion. Anyway, I'll say no more, otherwise will be defating the notion of letting bibian decide for themselves.

[V]

Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Okay b4 i even start, i wish 2 say that i am not here 2 do nindia or chugliaa(n) or anything of the sort, and 4 anything i do say wrong then "anjaan bachi samaj ke maarf karna"

i was talking 2 an amritdhari friend of mine, and he said 2 me that ajj kal goin 2 a rehnsbai kirtan is on par wit like going 2 a night club, he said its so easy 2 go ther and get urself a gf/bf, now obviously this is not like 100% of the time or whatever but that was his genral overview derived from the number of times he had seen this occur and personally been involved...with my other friend also, he said the same thing but he spoke of sikhi camps and seminars etc

as 4 the hair issue, i know a few singhniaa (amritdhari wit dastaar) who do more than bleach facial hair, they wax arms as well as legs also and pluck/thread eyebrows and other facial hair, i was talkin one time 2 my friend who is looking 2 get married and i asked what if ur wife wishes 2 receive amrit, he said "yeh she cn go 4 it, i jst dont want her 2 get a bigger beard than mine but" that attitude really kinda shocked me, im not amritdhari as of yet, and 2 b honest the only thing holding me bak is the hair thing, nothin els, im weak,but hopefully thru bani  & naam and wit Guru ji's blessings i cn become strong enuff 2 not let it effect me any longer,another amritdhari friend of mine however said he would let his wife rem

ove any other hair apart frm the hair on her head beacause in the mahan kosh kesh is defined as hair on the head 4 women and hair on the head and face 4 men,( i dont know if thats right or wrong im simply regurgitating what he told me) he also went on2 say that in 2days society appearance does matter& ther has 2 b sum sort of half way mark, i know one bibi who b4 takin amrit went 2 have laser hair removal, others thort it kinda defeated the object; seems a lot of people hold different opinions of what is 'right' and 'wrong'

Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

"yeh she cn go 4 it, i jst dont want her 2 get a bigger beard than mine but"

I don't think this person is a sensitive person and doens't desrve to ever be wedded!

b honest the only thing holding me bak is the hair thing, nothin els, im weak,but hopefully thru bani  & naam and wit Guru ji's blessings i cn become strong enuff 2 not let it effect me any longer,

Massive respect to you bhenji

another amritdhari friend of mine however said he would let his wife remove any other hair apart frm the hair on her head beacause in the mahan kosh kesh is defined as hair on the head 4 women and hair on the head and face 4 men,( i dont know if thats right or wrong im simply regurgitating what he told me)

According to the Gurmat Rehit Maryada

BY AKAL TAKHT

the forth Kurehit is -

(1) Dishonouring the hair;

WHICH INCLUDES -

Lasing - Bleaching - and all othe crap peoplle do nowdays

http://allaboutsikhs.com/rehat/rehat_06.htm

Dam Dami Taksal has a whole section on it which the give an extremly good explaination

2. Hajamat - Removing Kesh

Cutting hair is strictly forbidden in Gurmat. From your head down to your toes, no hair is to be plucked, cut, burnt or chemically/surgically removed. Kesh are not to be dyed by any method whatsoever, to make it black or the plucking of only white hairs is not permitted.

swbq sUrq r`b bxweI ]

byeImwn ny BMn gvweI ]

"God made the human form perfect, but the treacherous has altered it and made it lose it's natural beauty."

swbq sUrq r`b dI BMny byeImwn ]

drgih FoeI nw imlY kwPr ku`qw sYqwn ]

"The treacherous has altered the perfect human body, making it lose it's natural beauty. He/She will not get acceptance in the court of God and is an infidel,

dog and

is devil like."

Keeping your Kesh is essential. Upon the death of a relative, the deceased's hair is not to be shaved off. The cutting of hair is prohibited in other religions as well, but in Gurmat cutting the hair is a cardinal sin and results in a person being an outcast. Thus changing, cutting or removing the hair in any manner is strictly forbidden for a Gursikh. You are to guard against committing this cardinal sin.

The Kesh is not to be washed with ashes or clay, it is to be washed with shampoo, yoghurt or lasee. Lying down uncovered or partaking in any action with your Kesh uncovered is strictly forbidden. You are not to enter a dusty, dirty place with your Kesh uncovered. Cutting the Kesh or piercing the ears/noses of your children is strictly forbidden. The hair of children is not to be tied in dreadlocks. From a young age, the Kesh of your children are to be combed with a Kangha.

swbq sUrq isDw dwVHw ]

kwT dw kMGw kysIN cwVHw ]

"The complete form of man is with a beard, which is left untied. The Kesh are combed by this person with a wooden Kangha."

Amritdharee Singhs are to keep their beards open and untied.

http://www.damdamitaksal.com/lit_rehat_14.htm

Most rehitname agree sayign that hair on entire body may not be removed.

Gurbani gives us further proof, which kSinghni earlier gave -

rom rom har oucharai khin khin har soee -

With each and every hair, they chant the Lord's Name, each and every instant, the Lord.

gurmukh rom rom har dhhiaavai -

The Gurmukh meditates on the Lord with every

hair of his body.

rom rom mehi basehi muraar -

and on each and every hair, the Lord abides

I think someone told me tha Dalai Lama said that as well, that hair does help in meditation

We need to remember, Kes is TOOL

BwvY lWby kys kru BwvY Grir mufwie ]25] 

You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25|| 

bhaavai laaNbay kays kar bhaavai gharar mudaa-ay. ||25||

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.g...lish=t&id=58094

WE need to remember Sikhi does NOT = Kes

Kes does NOT = SIkhi

Kes is a PART of Sikhi

Kes is simply a TOOL

We're making a too big ho ha out of kes today - it's just a PART of the Path, it's a TOOL for spirituality - it's for our own benifit!

Just like you can bang a nail onto something wooden with your bare head - it will certainly work! But the hammer is a TOOL, which helps you, makes everything a lot easier , Gurbani has said it - Vaheguru ji is in every Rom, Every hair on your body meditates with you when you do Naam Japna, so why remove

kbIr mnu mUMifAw nhI kys muMfwey kWie ]

Kabeer, you have not shaved your mind, so why do you shave your head? 

kabeer man mooNdi-aa nahee kays mundaa-ay kaaN-ay. 

jo ikCu kIAw so mn kIAw mUMfw mUMfu AjWie ]101] 

Whatever is done, is done by the mind; it is useless to shave your head. ||101|| 

jo kichh kee-aa so man kee-aa mooNdaa moond ajaaN-ay. ||101|| 

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.g...lish=t&id=58245

he also went on2 say that in 2days society appearance does matter& ther has 2 b sum sort of half way mark, i know one bibi who b4 takin amrit went 2 have laser hair removal, others thort it kinda defeated the object; seems a lot of people hold different opinions of what is 'right' and 'wrong'

No it's just excuses to never confess you're wrong.

Those who do Laser things - they will surely be really sad and regret it one day that they lost such a beautiful gift. I was just sitting in the bus today and remembering the radiant faces of the Gurmukhs and how they look so AMAZING in their full Sikhi Saroop.

pauVI ]

Pauree: 

pa-orhee. 

   

ieik jYnI auJV pwie Durhu KuAwieAw ]

S

ome are Jains, wasting their time in the wilderness; by their pre-ordained destiny, they are ruined. 

ik jainee ujharh paa-ay Dharahu khu-aa-i-aa. 

   

iqn muiK nwhI nwmu n qIriQ n@wieAw ] 

The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is not on their lips; they do not bathe at sacred shrines of pilgrimage. 

tin mukh naahee naam na tirath nHaa-i-aa. 

hQI isr Kohwie n Bdu krwieAw ] 

They pull out their hair with their hands, instead of shaving. 

hathee sir khohaa-ay na bhad karaa-i-aa. 

   

kuicl rhih idn rwiq sbdu n BwieAw ] 

They remain unclean day and night; they do not love the Word of the Shabad. 

kuchil raheh din raat sabad na bhaa-i-aa. 

iqn jwiq n piq n krmu jnmu gvwieAw ] 

They have no status, no honor, and no good karma. They waste away their lives in vain. 

tin jaat na pat na karam janam gavaa-i-aa. 

   

min jUTY vyjwiq jUTw KwieAw ] 

Their minds are false and impure; that which they eat is impure and defiled. 

man joothai vayjaat joothaa khaa-i-aa. 

   

ibnu sbdY Awcwru n ikn hI pwieAw ]

Without the Shabad, no one achieves a lifestyle of good conduct. 

bin sabdai aachaar na kin hee paa-i-aa. 

   

>gurmuiK EAMkwir sic smwieAw ]16] 

The Gurmukh is absorbed in the True Lord God, the Universal Creator. ||16|| 

gurmukh o-ankaar sach samaa-i-aa. ||16||

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.g...lish=t&id=54960

From my understanding this Shabad means (against daas's understanding might be way offfff ) this Shabad is telling is that it doesn't matter which way you remove them.

I'll end this post with a quote Balait da Sher veer ji post on the first page of this thread -

gurmuiK lwhw lY gey mnmuK cly mUlu gvwie jIau ]19]

guramukh laahaa lai geae manamukh chalae mool gavaae jeeo ||19||

The Gurmukhs reap their profits and leave, while the self-willed manmukhs lose their investment and depart. ||19||

WRiting this post this Anjaan Moorakh has probably made a lot off mistake's misquotings and other mistakes or if i have offended anyone - please take me as your younger brother and forgive me, and please correct me, as this Moorakh knows very little

Guru Sahib ji Aap kirpa karan

bhull chukk maaf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Heera Singh]

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh..!!

in response to several of nirbhau's earlier posts... to start of.. ur PREACHING us by telling us not to 'preach'... and secondly.. who said it's called PREACHING when u approach someone to talk to them about an issue that they have on their mind? and ur comin on here and disrespecting kathaa ?? (i dunno if thats what u intended, but thats the way many of us, including mysef, see it)..

Sikhi is about learning not preaching. You start preaching you loose your sikhi because you are NOT a sikh anymore. You have violated the definiton of a Sikh. (Learner). How can a learner be a preacher or teacher. So those of you out there that they can confront others are not sikhs. It is not about confrontation. It is about being a sikh so that people associate with you because of your sikhi and they gain something which they feel they dont have and they can themselves learn from you. Ten men can take a horse to water but even hundred men cannot make it drink. So I will repeat again if you like being hated then go and confront people and in your head you can think that you are being a sikh. Actually you are NOT being a sikh (learner). You are violating the basic definition of a SIKH by being a preacher.

who are you to tell people 'you are not a Sikh'??? I think u need to go check up on ur info ...

thirdly.. if u saw sumbody disrespecting ur father,

Guru Jee or the Guru Granth Sahib Jee in any way (maybe it was somethin that you THOUGHT was disrespecting), then you would jes stand there and let them do it? you would jes watch as they did beadbi of ur Guru Jee..?? tha's bout the dumbest thing i've ever heard.. and from reading ur earlier posts.. tha's exactly what it seems you would do..if u feel sum1 is doing beadbi, you go talk to them and tell em how u feel.. nobody's sayin that u have to go up to them and punk them.. you talk to them in a respectful, peaceful manner.. and if they choose to listen and take care of the issue thats up to them, but i's your job to make sure that u at least make an attempt to resolve the situation... now tell me... does it make u LESS of a Sikh to confront sum1 about somethin that u think is disrespecting Guru Jee or does it make you LESS of a Sikh by NOT doin/sayin nethin bout it.. and jes lettin them disrespect?

confronting people does NOT give u a black eye.. it's the way you approach them.. if u approach them in a way that they see as threatening or a way that mite make them think ur there to cause trouble, then tha's what ur gonna get..

and i also agree wit an earlier post by AK-47 veerji, that all that bleachin or makeup or hair removal stuff is an internal thing.. i's called the Battle of the Mind...and once again.. if they think i's okay.. tell em to go ask their Panj Pyaray (even if they aren't amritdhari)...

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh..!!!

[Akaal Purakh Di Fauj]

Heera Singh.... :TH:! Singh hits the nail on the head

[Jyot]

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh..!!

in response to several of nirbhau's earlier posts... to start of.. ur PREACHING us by telling us not to 'preach'... and secondly.. who said it's called PREACHING when u approach someone to talk to them about an issue that they have on their mind? and ur comin on here and disrespecting kathaa ?? (i dunno if thats what u intended, but thats the way many of us, including mysef, see it)..

Sikhi is about learning not preaching. You start preaching you loose your sikhi because you are NOT a sikh anymore. You have violated the definiton of a Sikh. (Learner). How can a learner be a preacher or teacher. So those of you out there that they can confront others are not sikhs. It is not about confrontation. It is about being a sikh so that people associate with you because of your sikhi and they gain something which they feel they dont have and they can themselves learn from you. Ten men can take a horse to water but even hundred men cannot make it drink. So I will repeat again if you like being hated then go and confront people and in your head you can think that you are being a sikh. Actually you are NOT being a sikh (learner). You are violating the basic definition of a SIKH by being a prea

cher.

who are you to tell people 'you are not a Sikh'??? I think u need to go check up on ur info ...

thirdly.. if u saw sumbody disrespecting ur father, Guru Jee or the Guru Granth Sahib Jee in any way (maybe it was somethin that you THOUGHT was disrespecting), then you would jes stand there and let them do it? you would jes watch as they did beadbi of ur Guru Jee..?? tha's bout the dumbest thing i've ever heard.. and from reading ur earlier posts.. tha's exactly what it seems you would do..if u feel sum1 is doing beadbi, you go talk to them and tell em how u feel.. nobody's sayin that u have to go up to them and punk them.. you talk to them in a respectful, peaceful manner.. and if they choose to listen and take care of the issue thats up to them, but i's your job to make sure that u at least make an attempt to resolve the situation... now tell me... does it make u LESS of a Sikh to confront sum1 about somethin that u think is disrespecting Guru Jee or does it make you LESS of a Sikh by NOT doin/sayin nethin bout it.. and jes lettin them disrespect?

confronting people does NOT give u a black eye.. it's the way you approach them.. if u approach them in a way that they see as threatening or a way that mite make them think ur there to cause trouble, then tha's what ur gonna get..

and i also agree wit an earlier post by AK-47 veerji, that all that bleachin or makeup or hair removal stuff is an internal thing.. i's called the Battle of the Mind...and once again.. if they think i's okay.. tell em to go ask their Panj Pyaray (even if they aren't amritdhari)...

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh..!!!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Take it easy Heera Singh veerji... all that nirbhau said was that u shud n

ot confront the ppl in the sense telling them forcefully.. (s)he did say that u can talk to them though....

And about preaching, what i understood from his/her post is that (s)he is saying that a sikh's jeevan shud be such that people are attracted to his personality and want to adopt the same lifestyle, instead of himr going and telling people to become like him....

bhul chuk maaf karni ji

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Princess]

Dont mean to be funny, but i think all this issue to do with bibian bleaching waxing etc is an issue that they need to deal with themselves internally.

Not sure how a woman would take a man telling her that she shouldnt bleach her face etc, would be much better coming from a woman. I know katha vachaks like baba jagjeet singh harkowal have blatantly cussed women who do this on stage, but on a one to one thing the girls need to do it.

The only ways girls can deal with this is if the elder ladies set the standard, be the role model and do sangat with the youngsters. If you never spend any time with them, the only people they will speak to are kids their own age most of whom will believe this is fine.

If guys feel the need to say things then be subtle, dnt charge into it, its easy enough to bring kesh into a discussion about other sikhi things... the good old i knew someone who had this problem etc etc. simply putting people on the spot wont always help, even if wat u are saying is correct their anger or them being embarassed or upset might make them just reject everything u said just bcause YOU said it.

Ok with some people you have to go hard, but in general take it easy, these people generaly know wat they doing is incorrect deep down, u just have to draw it out slowly.

Dnt forget these kids do more sangat with tv which influenes the way they think they should look, rather than gurmukhs like yourselves.

Last com

ment, sorry sisters but you are you own worst enemies.

Iv heard young girls get so upset because other girls been making fun of their hair, or not speaking to them because they wear a patka as oppossed to a dastar, or simply because they do not belong in their 'gang' jatha whatever.

I know Singhs argue all the time too, but not like this. Worst comes to worst we'll have a punch up, but with girls it gets vicous, leaving people out, not speaking to them gossiping in front of them etc, all leads to really low self esteem.

If bibian actually did sangat with each other the way singhs do, youd find it easier to resolve these issues.

Im sorry the above is just what iv seen, my experiences may be biased! If so i do apologise.

PS if you ever hear of an amrithdhari singh bleaching his facial hair.... SLAP HIM!! :wub:

:TH:

[S1ngh]

I agree that Sikhi is about learning. But not quite sure about confronting. 

"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."

-Winston Churchill

hehe sorry it might be a bit off topic but this quote is good. 

So you are saying that you willing to have bibian as enemies instead of friends who have slightly different lifestyle than yours ??

SO that means i should see my monay friends as enemy too?

[Ksinghni]

Er Vicky Singh Ji, please read the whole thread - clearly you havent!!

DID I say that Id like to have bibiyan enemies who have a different lifestyle or different views to mine?? please dont be silly

[japmans]

namecalling leads to creating enemies... maybe you shouldn't have called vicky bhaji silly... he may end up as your enemy... but hey...iot's okay..you stood up for something :TH:

but in all seriousness.... i was reading this last page and i read amrik singh's reply about "mobiles should be turned off in darbar" and i thought "wth is this guy talking about??!" only to realize:

THAT HE WAS STICKING TO THE ORIGINAL TOPIC!!!

i've got a samsung.... and i've txted inside a darbar hall..... am i wrong??? probably... do i need YOU to tell me i'm wrong?? probbly not.... and.. if YOU confront me and tell me how right you are, and how wrong i am.. is it gonna make we wanna do it even MORE in front of you, cuz i know it pisses you off?? OHHHH YEAAA!

I agree with nirbhau's definitions and contrasts between telling (which i would rather use the word explaining), than confronting (which to me, implies some sort of condescending verbal exchanges of words in order to tell one person that he or she is WRONG in his or her actions..something that can be done just as effectively (if not with more effectiveness) through peaceful and loving dialogue)

shoot me if i'm wrong