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Agreed that most of their decisions are flawed and political biased. In some cases they do okayish job such as taking care of running of gurughars. Let say I am a farmer and tomorrow I die, I be more happy to leave land to sgpc rather than to other Sikh institution. Why? Because I know sgpc will stay and their leaders will change often which sadly is not the case of many jatehbandeya.

Came across a great webpage of a Sikh with many photos of Sikh Granths and pictures of the Gurus please have a look http://www.flickr.com/photos/akaalsingh/page5/

This is why all should strongly protect the idea that SGPC should be the only one to take care of printing mahraj saroops. No jathanbandi or management or society should be allowed to print gurbani saroops whether its taksal or Satnam trust from Canada.

Godfather - Genius from Copolla. You come for the violence but you stay for the family drama. Kill Bill - A beautiful story about badla (revenge). My sisters could do a lot worse to watch and learn how a woman can handle herself. I know it's a Hollywood movie and far from our reality, but the core message (IMO) is that women are more than what society has conditioned them to be.

AKJ singhs of India are firm believers in Dasam Bani. There was a reinsabhai at fatehgarh sahib last week and singhs of jatha recited many shabads from Dasam Granth sahib. Bhai sahib Randhir singh ji himself a firm believer in Dasam bani.Akal ustat, bachitra natak and chndi di vaar were part of his nitnem. Having said that there are some claiming to be akj , mostly based in UK, who are against Dasam granth sahib and are supporters of person like dhundha as was evident from dhundha's visit to uK a few weeks back. In my view such people should be exposed as they are a disgrace to akj. There should be open discussion on this instead of suppressing this issue.Only then we will know the fakes.

sat bachan

:| If ever a time comes you want to cover the tattoo the positive side is all you have to do is stop shaving your chest and beard haha

Anyway Veerji, now that you've gone ahead and got the ink permanently embedded into your skin, lets try to etch that picture with the ink of Naam onto our heart as well, and work towards building our jeevan like that of the Sher that you have on your chest. I rather like his long, flowing dhaara sahib, and I think you'd look amazing with a long beard like that yourself try growing it, and see the difference! Maharaj Mehr Karn!

Sherdil, since you have not taken Amrit and do not practice rehat fully, how do you know what is approved by Guru Sahib and whats not? What evidence do you have other than your own opinions to back up your false claims that bibek is not part of rehat? Do you even know what rehat bibek constitutes? In my post I have made it clear that Guru Sahib refused to eat from those who were not practicing the truth. Guru Sahib is pure soul and free of sins even then he did not consume food from those who were not religious in practice. Gurbani states that Amrit has the power to erase all sins. One just has to utilize it properly according to rehat. It was the power of Amrit that transformed sparrows into hawks. Since you are non-Amritdhari what authority or evidence do you have to insult Amrit and denigrate it? Panj Pyare tell at Amrit Sanchaar that all past sins get erased provided that one abides by rehat. You audaciously claiming otherwise shows your ignorance and foolishness. An Amritshak is a person who has taken Amrit and an Amritdhari is a person who has adopted the Amrit way of life and lives according to it. An Amritdhari who is an awful human being is not an Amritdhari by definition. One cant be both at the same time. You state Even if all amritdharis were pure and all non-amritdharis were full of sin, it wouldn't affect your kamai to eat from them. You are treating them like untouchables. I dont think you understand the concept of untouchability in Hinduism. Non-Amritdharis are human beings just like all the Sikhs and as humans we are all equal but that does not negate the fact that food from them is unacceptable because it is not prepared according to Gurmat. Rehat clearly prohibits roti beti di saanjh with sirgumm (monas). Untouchables can never become brahmins whereas monas can take Amrit and become part of Khalsa brotherhood. So dont even make a fool of yourself by accusing bibeki Sikhs of practicing inhumanly practice. The fact is that you are bothered by the fact that you belong to a category whose food is not accepted as Guru Ka and rather than making an effort to improve yourself to please Guru Sahib, you are deliberately trying to redefine Gurmat to suit your own lifestyle. In terms of affecting naam kamayee, food definitely has its impact. I can present stories of Sikhs and non-Sikhs as well but to be brief, any action done by physical body has an effect on the mind. If you see something bad, it will influence your mind in a similar way. If you smell something bad, you get abhorrent feelings. If someone yells at you angrily, your state of mind will change to either angry or pathetic. Similarly, the food you eat affects the mind. Since you do not do any Amrit Vela and practice Naam Simran, you do not feel it. Ask those who struggle through Amrit Vela and try to infuse their minds with Naam and make an attempt to find out rather than sitting behind a screen and write gibberish to defy Gurmat. When it comes to benefitting kamayee by keeping bibek, no one will (or should) give away their experiences to you or anyone for that matter because it is not pleasing to Guru Sahib. More one reveals more loss they incur. All I can say is that it is a great aid and significantly contributes to naam simran when it comes to focus, concentration, waking up and feeling refresh all day long. The experience of naam simran is more vigorous and indescribable in words. You will have to experience it yourself. Guru Rakha

lol

By the way, today is the Shaheedi Divas of Vadde Sahibzaade, the day when 40 fought a million and became Shaheed. One of them was Bhai Kirpa Singh, formerly Pandit Kirpa Ram Dutt who came running from Kashmir terrified of a few hundred Mughals in 1675. The same person, after 29 years in 1704 on today's date stood fearlessly in front of a million of those same Mughals, ready to fight till his last breath and last drop of blood. THAT, my friend, is the power of the Amrit you're making fun of.

Have either of you taken Amrit? If not, then why bother to argue about something you've not even practiced? If you have and your Panj Pyaare did not ask you to keep Bibek, then by all means do what you like and eat from wherever and whoever you wish to, but don't go as far as to call Bibek as not Guru Sahib's Rehit, because it always has and always will be no matter what someone says. You don't agree with it, fine, suit yourself, but don't speak out against something you clearly have no idea about and haven't even practiced yet. Singhs here are trying to explain it to you but if you don't want to listen then no one is going to force you. Like I always say, no one on Sikhsangat.com will prosecute you just because you don't agree with them. Its your life, its your relationship to Guru Sahib, you look after it. Following more Rehit is adding sugar to the relationship. The more you add it, the sweeter it gets. You choose not to add it, cool, up to you, your choice. Those who do wish to add it and enjoy the ras and anand, they will continue to do so even if you keep calling it "not Gurmat". No one is asking you or forcing you to keep Bibek. Moreover, without Guru Sahib's kirpa it canNOT be kept in its true form. This is the reason I said in my initial post, that those who keep Bibek AND are arrogant, and those who label Bibek as "wrong" are BOTH misled. I guess everyone has made their points clear. Anyone got anything else to add before this thread turns out into one where Guru Sahib's Rehit is mocked and I lock it down?

Anyone spot the post where Harmandir Sahib Sarovar is being put in the same boat as ganga? With this type of illogic thinking Khanda Bhatte da Amrit is no different than the janeu. Can anyone share how Harmandir Sahib Sarovar is different than ganga? What is the ganga missing. Also just in case the Brahmins come in and trying to play mind tricks and say they are the same. Remember two concepts of Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj; Nirgun and Sargun. The ganga are missing one of these. If the Brahmin says it only needs one, then tell the Brahmins to go take a bath in cow blood. Cow blood also has one of the two. :biggrin2:

However i'll add this as well. I have seen Bibek Rehit being misused. Some practice Bibek Rehat, but they have no control on their anger or ego. They won't eat from a non-amritdharis hands, but have no problem jumping up and down like a little kid every time they don't get their way. Honestly if the youth are not taught that honestly is the key to bibek rehat, then i can see some of these guy turning into Brahmins. Not practicing honestly and just jumping to bibek rehat. Also the type of food a person puts in their body causes the vices to come out. The comment about............i don't eat food from those that have indulged in ego and anger in a day is just riduculous. Because only a Brahmgyani is above both. They must have a Brahmgyani as a chef. Just as Satguru introduced Sikhi to the world over 200 plus years. Take baby steps and you'll get to bibek rehat.

"But veer ji, can't someone adopt rehat without taking Amrit?" One can keep the rehat but he wont be a Sikh of Guru Sahib. Not that Guru Sahib hates him but he is not accepted in Gurmat because he is still following manmat. The first step in Gurmat is to submit to the Hukam of Guru Sahib and take Naam. If one chooses to bypass this, he is following manmat to begin with. The closet example to it I can give is this: A person can study at home without enrolling in school or any training program but at the end he will not get any certificate or a professional job. One can try to train himself in any sport, but he wont be taken in any team as a professional player. Similarly, one can do all they want, but it is not worth much without enrollment in school of Gursikhi. One can argue that a university might have a challenge test one can take to get the certificate but it goes to show that he must be held to the university standards after all. Same way, one must be held to Gursikhi standards in terms of character and way of life. So how will a non-Sikh practicing Gurmat at home without any sangat be able to pass the test of Guru Sahib? It is not as easy as a university exam and Guru Sahib would never put a non-Sikh through the test of Gursikhi. One can never be a Gurmukh if he starts his journey following manmat. If five monas get together and follow all the steps of preparing Amrit, it will still not be acceptable as Amrit because they are not guru wala. If a degh prepared by a non-Sikh is not acceptable then on the same lines, his food is not acceptable as Guru Ka Langar either. We need to educate others about bibek with reason so they see their own faults and try to improve themselves rather than compromising Gurmat and pushing others away. Sant Harnaam Singh Ji drank tea that was joothi of another Amritdhari and he took it as a medicine not as a regular practice. There is no mention in Se Kineheya of Sant Ji drinking tea at in dhabas as a regular practice. In fact, he would go on without eating or drinking for days. If we wish to emulate Sant Ji then why not do it as a whole rather than picking easy to follow steps? A Muslim woman once wished to have Sant Kartar Singh Ji to eat at her house but upon finding out the strict dietary rehat of Sant Ji she took Amrit and then invited the jatha over. Sikhs are becoming lax these days which is the major cause of disunity and suffering. Then we wonder why chardi kala is not happening. It is up to the individual if he does not want to follow bibek. It won't make him a sinful or a bad person. But practicing will definitely make him a better Sikh.

But veer ji, can't someone adopt rehat without taking Amrit? Forsaking food from non-amritdharis is not the rehat of Guru Sahib. Do you keep full Bibek? Can you explain what blessings you have received?

I understand. The point still remails that since some food items are inherently impure and some due to the method of their preparation, reciting Gurbani over them prior to consumption is not an acceptable way. Hence, illogical. Baba Nand Singh once refused to eat mangoes bought from a seller who was smaoking with one hand. Sant Kartar Singh refused to eat at someone's house who was in liquor business. Bibek at some level has always been in practice in different jathas. Some Amrit Sanchaars organized by Taksal clearly tell not to eat from non-Amritdharis. Only put faith in someone you know is doing their best to keep rehat and preparing food. A Sikh eats and drinks Amrit and any food without any Amrit rass is unacceptable. If there is uncertainty then why not abstain from that food? Have faith in Guru Sahib to provide you with proper food. Bhai Sahib, eh behas da visha nahin. Vichaar should be done on how to overcome challenges in this rehat rather than whether to keep it.

Those that follow Bibek shouldn't call those that don't Dhillay Sikhs, and those that don't follow Bibek shouldn't call those that do Bahmans regardless of how strict they are (there are exceptions when someone follows some "rehat" without any reason). It is accepted by all Dals, Jathas, Taksals, etc. that Bibek is not against Sikhi principles and Gurmat. If you need evidence then it can be provided, just ask me. My personal opinon is that Bibek is a must and all Gursikhs should keep it, but I'm not going to oppose my opinions on anyone, as I could be wrong. Just as I won't oppose my views about Raagmala, Keski etc on other Gursikhs. We really need to learn to move past these differences and not hate others for having differing views ( I need to work on myself on this as well, I'm not saying I'm perfect) otherwise we won't be able to make Sikhi grow and reach its potential. Look how beautiful Gurmat is, if we just did Parchar together by holding Hands with each other regardless of differences instead of fighting with each other then we could get thousands of people to join Sikhi and take Amrit and become Khalsai. Can you go into more details? What table did you put your empty tray on? If it was a table where all the joothai bhandai go then why was this Gursikh putting his clean cup on there in the first place? This is common sense you don't put clean bhandai on dirty surfaces. Or were you eating on a table?

Here is another different perspective on this topic- We all have different perception and at different stage/state of mind, even if there isn't any certainty on source of your food on your table, we need to have faith in Gurbani with full sharda/faith and prem- we can recite mool mantar or (Gurparsad bhram ka nash) before having the food- instead of causing aggravation in the situation or if you think its going to create even more roadblocks full of doubts/sanas in one's head or clutter your brain too much into a confusing bambal pusa. Gurbani has power to make everything amrit/paras kala, its always been there..question here comes down to one's individual full faith and prem in gurbani itself regarding this suitation..if someone has pure intent and pure perception relyin on gurbani and recites gurbani before having food ..i honestly believe - food is parvan and could be eaten..!!

I've always considered bibek to be a very humble way of living. There's something very noble (not in an egotistical manner) about it. Sure, there's the odd hero who gives it a bad rep by acting holier than thou, but I can see why some Sikhs go the bibek route. I'm guessing it's only a select blessed few who can balance the ins and outs of a bibeki lifestyle whilst ensuring those around them are blissfully unaware of what's going on. Not that they should hide what they're doing, but equally there's no benefit in drawing attention to yourself in the hope of an admiring individual throwing a compliment your way. That leads to a big head!

You've reminded me of a story from when i used to watch Ramayan on t.v. I only vaguely remember it; Raam and Lakshman visit this old lady who has a lot of sharda in her heart towards Raam. She hand picks fruit before his arrival and takes a bite out of each one to ensure they get only the sweetest. When she offers it to Raam, Lakshman points out its jhoota but Raam still eats it and says something about prem and sharda. Just a thought... P.S. Ramayan was brilliant!

Spot on!! Thankfully like i said im no longer 100% against it and im gonna try to continue to understand it further and i hope those who do keep it try to understand themselves why they are keeping it then it will be happy days! :D

Then that is a shame that some folks follow Rehit without nimarta and don't even have the courtesy to explain why they do what they do, and don't even know what it is they are adhering to. It can be rotten from both sides. Some (not all) who claim to be Bibeki can (at times) be arrogant and look down on others (who are not Bibeki). Others who can't keep Bibek (due to their own weakness) end up mocking the Rehit outright. Both are misled, both are screwed up! The moment you lose nimarta, you lose the Anand of keeping Rehit. Be firm in your Rehit, but that doesn't mean you're insensitive and mean to others and don't even have the decency to explain.

You should have asked them to explain right there and then.

Im still not sure i understand bibek but ive learned it depends on the individual keeping it and what their interpretation of it is. From being 100% against it im now 50-50 as I try to understand why people keep it. Although some people definitely take it over the top and thats when accusations of Bhaman-vaad start flying around. The following situation always comes to mind when talking about this subject I was attending a function where there were Amritdharis and non-Amritdharis alike and the food was being served by Amritdharis, naturally. After finishing my food my empty tray was on the table , some Amritdharis sat down to eat, one had a drink poured for themselves and it ever so slightly touched my empty tray and they refused to drink it as if it had now been tainted or poisoned in some way. I was quite shocked and it actually made me feel quite down. I felt worthless. My point is other peoples empty trays had been right where the glass was, droplets of food had been spilled there, they could well have been from a used tray. I know what jhooth is but what was this?? What makes this situation go against bibek?? What was now wrong with the drink??

Why would Guru Nanak need to give Bhai Lalo Naam? Lalo was already honest and hardworking. That is why Guru ji preferred his food over Malik Bhago's. Thats what Satguru does. He gives Naam. Guru Sahib took tours for the purpose of giving Naam to everyone not to find hardworking people to eat from. Eating food was never his concern to begin with. While honesty and hard work are important, one need to practice these within Gurmat otherwise one can sell tobacco and liquor and call himself an honest hard worker. At the same time, one can reveal secret information about Singhs to government authorities and claim to be truthful. Gurmat defines what honesty means and how it is to be practiced. Being an honest and hardworking doesnt negate the fact that one needs to have Naam to become mukat. This is the emphasis of Gurbani in almost every shabad. It is entirely your lack of understanding of Gurmat that prevents you from seeing the truth. Dont blame the Janamsakhis. Are non-amritdharis unhygenic? Are they? Do their sins rub off on the food? Anything done by physical body affects the mind. I have already proved it in the provided link in the last post. This is not a topic for behas. One needs to practice it to understand it and experience it. Gurmat is not understood by study but by practice. If you dont practice it, you will never get it. Guru Rakha

Yes seriously- neither veer, not from amritdhari in this case as he does nindiya chugli, on welfare, krodhi, hate non sikhs as he is self righteous cactus jack-holier than thou and neither from other person as he is atheist, alcoholic, chain smoker.

Neither

Why would Guru Nanak need to give Bhai Lalo Naam? Lalo was already honest and hardworking. That is why Guru ji preferred his food over Malik Bhago's. Are non-amritdharis unhygenic? Do their sins rub off on the food? God works in mysterious ways, if one can absorb someone else's sins.

Bhai Moti Mehar couldn’t have been an ordinary person to have the courage to sacrifice his life for Sahibzadas. He must have been in touch with Guru Sahib and His admirer. Keep in mind that when Guru Sahib introduced Khanda Amrit in 1699, not entire Panth converted overnight. It took some years and as the news spread, Sikhs started to become Khalsa. It is an undeniable fact that all the Sikhs who had not taken Khanda Amrit were still Sikhs because they had taken Naam from Satguru via Charan Amrit. For example, Bhai Dalla and numerous other Sikhs took Khanda Amrit later on and as Guru Sahib proceeded towards Deccan, He organized Amrit Sanchaar. Bhai Moti Mehar could’ve been one of those Sikhs who had taken Charan Amrit prior to 1699 but had not taken Khanda Amrit yet. This would make him a Sikh and hence food from him acceptable to Sikhs. Just to clarify, Charan Amrit was discontinued in 1699 and was never given later on to anyone as a form of initiation to Gurmat. Those who had taken it prior to 1699 were Sikhs and encouraged to take Khanda Amrit to foster unity and further strengthen the brotherhood of Khalsa. As clearly stated in Guru Nanak Chamatkaar, Bhai Lalo Ji was given Naam by Guru Sahib first and then his food was accepted. Same goes for Bhai Sajjan, Bhai Bhoomiya, Noorshah, Bhai Jhanda, Bhai Kalyug, Raja Shivnab and countless others. Read the following post for more info: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/67931-eating-food-withprepared-by-gursikhs-only/#entry547978

Moti Mehra was a Sikh of Guru Sahib. There is nothing wrong taking milk from another rehitvaan Sikh.

There is no restriction on who an amritdhari can eat from. People who follow this practice are no different from those who don't accept food from "untouchables". Remember the sakhi of Guru Nanak and Bhai Lalo.

I wouldn't say they're villyfying the dharam yudh morcha. Maybe if they were treated equally there wouldn't be this debate in the first place.

This one person worked in Punjab police at the time and he said majority of the people that they detained were mazhbi Sikhs and when asked why they were into the movement they would say its an order from high command. It wasn't something out of the ordinary. Mazhbi Sikhs have been on front lines since the old times. However, I believe the Singhs from higher castes have equally contributed to dharam yudh morcha. Its just that lower castes efforts go unnoticed in the mainstream or simply ignored. The one thing that sticks out is that these people who sacrifice their lives regardless of their caste have true love for the Guru and believe in equality.

Here are sikh pictures from kumb mela 2010- http://www.sikhawareness.com/index.php/topic/12617-kumbh-mela-2010/ Gyani inderjit singh ji and Gyani sher singh ji also there...!!

They have a Facebook Page/Profile where you can contact Nirvair Khalsa Jatha UK https://www.facebook.com/nirvairkhalsajathauk nirvairkhalsajatha.co.uk/

Nirvair Khalsa Jatha UK is from Sant Ranjit Singh Ji Dhadrian Wale Jatha! Sant Ranjit Singh Told Bhai Harinder Singh JI (Nirvair Khalsa Jatha) to do Parchar and Kirtan Katha in Their Style in the UK in English and Panjabi so Youth can understand too. what do you mean by "why can't they use english language much further" ? they do english Parchaar more. Bull Chuk Maaf

Personally speakin i like to go over under undr over. Sometimes if i feel adventurus h'll go undr over ovr undr ovr . . . Either way my ears no hurtin and pug iz on the hed...mostly... If u like i can draw a pic Personally speakin i like to go over under undr over. Sometimes if i feel adventurus h'll go undr over ovr undr ovr . . . Either way my ears no hurtin and pug iz on the hed...mostly... If u like i can draw a pic

Well thanks.

REMIX http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwVrKwNyl18

This is so true! It’s the same strategy used against Dharam Yudh Morcha in the '80s where anyone who said anything against the Ghandhi regime was labelled an extremist/radical/fundamentalist and others were given the "moderate" label. A consorted effort is needed by all to stop this, the above election win, with SatGuru Jee’s kirpa, should be a good start. Vadia to all the dedicated GurSikhs who have turned round the situation at this Gurdwara Sahib over the last four years

Kindly Listen to this amazing Soothing Kirtan Album https://www.youtube.com/user/nirmalsinghpipliwale?feature=watch

hmmm now lets use what you have written and replace it with a "Moorti of Shiva" and see how it sounds. We have a Moorti of Shiva in our house and it doesn't make a difference to us that it's there. It's not stopping us doing our Nitnem, it's not enticing us towards the panj chor and in no way is it turning us into Hindus or to idol worship. It's no different to the other artifacts in my house. Yes, it makes an appearance at this time of year and then disappears again for the rest if the year, we don't become honorary Hindus for 2 weeks because of a Moorti of Shiva- if it did, I'd be questioning the strength of my faith, not the Moorti of Shiva. Now tell me, if a Sikh in India used these words would we still find it acceptable? or would we object to this arguement put forth by a Sikh trying to follow some Hindu ritual just because the kids find it fun?

Back in the 80's or 90's there was a Singh in Birmingham UK who had a khanda put on his mercedes, replacing the mercedes sign. When the Police saw it they told him to take it off LOL

Lovers live deathlessly, Without a question accept this truth.

why you been lookin at young boys?? more importantly.. WHY are you looking at older women?!!?!?

why.. do you find God's natural method for you to excrete waste dirty?? maybe you should ask that question first...