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Bhaji, the concept of soulmate does not exist in Sikhi. In different lifetimes, you will have had different souls who act out the role of your wife. The only soulmate is God, as God is the only mate your soul has in all lifetimes. But it's good that you saved yourself from having to pay off a whole mess of karams that you might have inherited had you decided to mess around as many do.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH! Let us all post any bachans,memories, meetings or other details relating to the Great Khalsa Sant Baba Thakur Singh Ji Khalsa bhindrabwale.

http://www.facebook.com/King.Kazi.88 Saturday 22 dec 2012 initiated sexually oriented conversation with a 15 yr old school girl. ALL RECORDS KEPT

NOTE- I stated that in 'theory' sikhism is closest to panentheism or can be put under that heading of description, BUT in reality you cannot define it according to these philosophical terms.

When describing technology other languages often don't have the terminology for it and so words are imported from the English language. Similarly, when describing God, other dharms/languages sometimes don't have the deep concepts that Sikhi has, so sometimes* it's best to import Gurmat words into English. Referring to our concept of Waheguru as being both nirgun and sargun has a deeper meaning attached than using pantheistic and panentheistic, as those words don't seem to capture the full depth that is waheguru (although no words fully can, some are better than others).

Do you know why it got locked? If you got nothing good to say about Sant ji, then don't post. :biggrin2: Enjoy your Christmas Tree

not quite. the universe is created and destroyed, but waheguru is always there, and has never been created nor will ever be destroyed. that being said, God does exist in all spaces (within matter) and all space (where there is no matter).

Last year we had a very robust discussion here about the hollowness of so called Sikhs who put Christmas trees in their houses. Lot of us learnt from that discussion and agreed to stop following this mindless ritual at their houses. I hope this trend is followed by more and more Sikhs all over the world.

So I was up in Manchester today. It was rubbish. Never been that far north before but prepared myself to see eastern European level of poverty and deprivation. I saw something else though that shocked me more. To get into Manchester, when you come off the motorway, you have to drive right through a very run down Jamaican neighbourhood called Moss Side. This neighbourhood also, apparently, has a sizeable and old Sikh community. So I'm driving along their main High Street called Princess Road and notice a Shop with 2 big Khandas on its signage. A big Khanda on the left side and a big Khanda on the right side. Between them were the words 'alcohol' and 'cigarettes'. Have a look for yourselves. Just do a Google Maps search and then a street view for 99 Princess Road, Manchester.

No need to apologize. It is just that if some newby were researching this and came across what we posted, I didn't want them to be misled into something else. I only learnt of this some time ago because a non-sikh had questioned me about it and they also mentioned the cosmotheism, which they thought was invented by sikhs !

Sikhi is not raw pantheism, nor its raw Panentheistic. nor its raw advaita philopshpy by adi sankarcharaya nor its raw vaishavat philopshy..the key word here is - it cannot be raw one thing. In Sikhi, everything listed above are all blended together as sikhi connects to human consciousness at each state- while being focused on nirgun paratma which is supreme consciousness/self aware. If one wishes to read sikh theology/stance read- bhai gurdas ji varan but importantly read/contemplate/ go in depth of mool mantra/jaap sahib and 21st ashatpadi of sukhmani sahib, where guru maharaj while acknowledging maya sargun,hell/heaven,shud satogun maya- avtars, sargun maya shakti- shiv shakat, pantheism, panentheism existence even shabd/naam cease to exist, maharaj is giving ishara to sikhs that everything diminishes/ultimate cease to exit- as it talks about five types of parlo/destruction of everything- sargun and only thing remains is nirgun, four types of parloa/destruction are physical multiverse/universe destruction folding back into nirgun vahiguroo - nature taking its course but the fifth one is worth looking deeply- fifth one is most important as it relates with human consciousness fifth parloa is gyan parlo or bhramgyan parlo where one's human consciousnesses totally fold itself into nirgun and merges itself in nirgun vahiguroo by loosing themselves- it could not be explained but i made lame attempt read my sig for more info or even better listen to sant gyani gurbachan singh khalsa bhindranwale gurbani katha of 21st asthapadi of sukhmani sahib...!!!

Cuz it would probably fall apart if they did.

Lots of replies to read but just a quick thing- Bibek is a very big term, has very broader meanings so i just wanted to make sure i break it down so its easier for people not to confuse or mix up things: 1. Bibek- Bibek mentioned in gurbani talks about inner bibek- every human is born with it- inner bibek literally means- discriminatory power of intellect within human mind to separate good attributes from bad and take good things from bad. Inner bibek/sensory intellect- is quite important as important as other human attributes such as- sat, santokh, dya, sabar, vichar etc. 2. Outer bibek- Outer bibek mostly refers to take in food, is inter-twined with inner bibek as its proven, whatever you have eat thats what your mind becomes. There are three types of food- satogun, rajoguni, tamoguni. Outer bibek helps us to pick right food i.e- satoguni food (not enrich of mirch/masala-rajogun) for bhagti/meditation/spirituality etc. If one has lived in the samparda's dera- one will learn for gristhi- you need 70 satoguni and 30 rajoguni diet to keep your other half happy (you know what i mean.). Based on my own research- both inner bibek and outer bibek is must in sikhi as they both intertwined with each other and its very important in gurdwaras but its unfortunate how gurdwara's are ignoring satoguni food very balanced and simple food for all sangat so that everyone can eat despite of their health problems. 3. Bibek of not eating from non -amritdharis/even amritdharis who don't have same diet as them, just cook your own food. This is optional. However, for some people it helps to further helps to maintain their outer bibek to make sure- food they are eating its consistent- satoguni. If it helps them, thats great. 4. Sarbloh bibek- originally started in nihang dals (still on going)to avoid strictly any kind of infiltration from outsider- mughal/mona's/patit and eat in iron- as its very enrich and high in iron. This is outer highest bibek, when there is bibek pehra- there is certain energy behind it, which cannot be ignored. Again its good to have but its optional. Each one of bibeks have levels and each bibek above are landmarks in spirituality, its there to help you out- its a landmark not a destination- its meant to help you but if caution is not placed by those who are practicing it, it could make these landmarks into road blocks if ones wrap their head around it could easily make these bibeks into mere karam kandis/dogma/ego trip. It's not bibek itself which makes it dogma, its people make it dogma and thats the key here..!!! There are many stories but one such story in jivan kiranie - biography of sant javala singh ji harkhowale - where one of bhramgyanis broke ahankar of bibeki singh who made bibek into dogma. Best way to learn about bibek is from mahapursh. a) they know levels of listed bibeks- when to apply, when not to apply b) provide cautionary guidance to avoid- turning bibek to karam kand/dogma/ego trip. There are many those who are inspired by bhagat ji- bhagat jaswant singh ji who is sarblohi bibeki mahapursh here in Canada but those who are inspired by him please do learn levels of bibek from him- when to apply and when not to apply bibek. I was with him in grouse mountain all the way to the summit and i clearly saw with my own eyes- despite of him being sarblohi bibek he pulled up - plastic natural spring water bottle to drink water few times, thats a clear indication of mahapursh not making bibek into dogma/karam kaand/ dogma ritual and there are similar stories of my own teacher- sant jagjit singh ji harkhowale who is 70 and cooked his own food all his life- he is not sarbloh bibeki but he is very strict dietary bibeki, despite of being strict bibeki/celibate mahapursh knows when to apply bibek and when not to apply bibek and he does not pro-actively promote it to the sangat who wishes to visit him as most of sangat who visits him are in gristh jevan have partners have diference of opnions on things and besides looking at the affairs of sikhs these days, mahapursh obviously knows how quickly it can become dogma despite of him being strick dietary bibeki by looking at the sad affairs- he openly gave tarna in katha- to those who made dietary bibek into dogma.!!

My dearest sister _weird feelings_ First of all I am extremely proud and happy that you are so much into Sikhi with such great love for raagis, shaheeds, and chardikela people, and love listening to kirtan from raagis and AKJ, Sikh history, bairaag shabads etc, and that you pray and do simran. You are so so lucky because this is what we all really come for in this world, to get into Sikhi and get very very close to Gurujee. I hope you will become an ambassador for Sikhi and let so many more people know about Sikhi. I can picture and kinda understand what you are going through, which is also making you feel impatient, and lacking the energy to do shopping or eating, and one minute happy one minute down, and almost depressed and as you said you cry easily over things. I understand that you are apprehensive of going to a doctor who might just ask you to drink more water! hehe. Sister, as Gurbani says nothing is perfect except God. So sometimes in our body and brain we may lack a certain chemical because our human body and our human brain is like a very complicated machine with so so many moving parts and there are hundreds of chemicals our body and brain has to produce and use. So sometimes a tiny drop in a chemical in our body or brain can cause us to feel weird, anxious etc. One of my friends had slightly too much of a hormone called the thyroid hormone in his body and that made him feel angry very fast, and so tired and his eyes started popping out big. But the doctor managed to sort it out. It is possible that there could be a little lack of some chemical somewhere in the brain or body and this can also make you cry easily even though you are not emotional person or take away your energy, make you restless, impatient etc. So, please do go to your doctor and you can print out what you typed here and my answer and show him and see what he says. Tell him rightaway you do not want to be asked to drink just more water. Tell him you would like some tests done and a proper detailed assessment and investigation. He may refer you to a specialist which is good too. As a result of this assessment he may decide you need to take certain medication which will help you to feel better such as eating and sleeping better and less crying easily and less anxious. This will help the quality of your life and help you even pray and do simran better because your tears are not getting in the way. If the doctor does prescribe you medicines then a) always take them and b) tell him is there another way so in the long term you would prefer not to take medicine all your life. One of my friends, his body just cannot make enough vitamin D so he has to take a vitamin D tablet everyday all his life which is not a bad thing anyway because vitamin is a very important vitamin. Another person I know has severe diabetes so they got no choice but to take diabetes medicine everyday. So dont worry too much about this. We all have our little problems and doctors can help us bcause they are our friends who understand about our bodies and brain very well. I pray to Gurujee to bless you in very way my dearest sister, and to stay in great chardikela and be successful.

I've had this problem for a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time. the pagh is cutting into the ears and it really hurts sometimes. I pulled off a scab on one ear and I think its healing but it hurts a lot. Any remedies or something which can stop my ear being p0wned by my pagh. Thanks.

im off this post with last comment as im getting too involved.. how do i know this i actually got up this morning thinking about this post....never happened before.. need to go pesh for this as i didnt wake up saying waheguru... im sorry if i offended any one...future jatherdhar of akaal thakt- david singh khlasa future jatherdhar of hazoor sahib... John singh khlasa and to please our groreh mates for the special day "xmas period" there wil lbe a big xmas tree next to nishan sahib who we will do a fateh to as it has shaheedi perah..but this is to please our goreh counterparts but to still please our panjabi ppl we will have a khanda at the top of the tree with orange ball things hanging from the tree..and what will top it all off will ba a clasiic.."JESUS WAS INDIAN/SIKH AS HE HAD A BEARD!!"...GOODNESS GRACIOUS ME... again sorry if i offended any one.. my head your feet.....

Please elaborate further, I'm not clear what you mean? Any path in particular?

After giving the first panj piyare Amrit, Guru Gobind Singh ji was given Amrit by them and hence became known as The Guru and the chela in one.

SGGS has all the answers to your doubts. Start exploring. If you cannot understand Gurbani, then try to study it with someone who can help you, because english translations fail to represent or truly bring to life the meanings. To make things a bit easy - just study the Japji Sahib and explore the deeper meanings ie take a line like 'Sachkhand vasse Nirankar' and then think what is Sachkhand and why is God represented here by the word Nirankar - what is the meaning trying to be portrayed. A friend in your local community who has done santhia or off duty giani will help you out - use the internet as a last resort. Doubt can be a good thing and because you have come to this forum and it appears like you are desperate to find the light again - enjoy the journey.

When a person has been enslaved by a different culture for a very long time..............they write exactly what is written in bold. Singh, if your Amritdhari, it is very sad to see you have lost the root of Satguru's teaching, every human is equal and has the right to practice their beliefs as long as they don't infringe on another's right. Honestly, I say you go to the basic of Sikhi and remember freedom is a universal right. Not just accept in religion, but as a secular right. All the Santa cookies has done some damage, wouldn't you say?

Grow your own vegetables and fruits. I have heard of Singh, who grow their own wheat. No doubt it is difficult to keep Bibek in this world economy, but if a person's jeevan is at that level then anything is possible. I have seen many Gurmukhs not eat langar because of the high level of spice and salt that goes into langar. It is not they don't want to eat with rest of the sangat, but they are very conscious of what to put in their body's and don't want any food that is high in sugar, salt, or spices, which will increase the 5 vices. Many Sikhs get sucked into the world, which includes me and we don't realize that this fast paced world is actually killing us physically and spiritually faster. Singhs that follow bibek are much more healthier and happier in life. Before someone judges bibek all they need to do is look at their own life and then look at a bibek Singhs life. Who has more stress, anxiety, worried more, is more emotional. The answer is very obvious here. Ever drive a car very fast and then slam the breaks and then hit the pedal again to the ground? The car doesn't last long if you kept doing this. This is what Sikhs are doing to their spirituality everytime they indulge in foods with a lot of salts, sugar, and spice. The base of keeping Bibek is honesty, but what type of food and where the food came in does also play a factor. Last point, majority of the punjabis in Canada you meet are depressed. I can say this because i speak to a lot of them on a daily basis. In the morning they are depressed because they have not got their cha, at lunch time they are in ego and have a bit of anger as fire power because they had a high meal in spice and salt, in the late afternoon they are angry because work doesn't end and they have not got their dosage of cha, and in the evening they are very depressed beacuse they don't have what another punjabi has, even after working so hard. So they eat some meal high in salt and spice to wash away the pain, also drink some alcohol if thats what they do or if your a bibi...........pick up the phone call another bibi and gossip about some loser aunty's life to feel better about yourself..............just add poor her, just so the rude remarks don't get counted as nindiya........gotta keep God happy.....

What I want to know is how do those who fully keep Bibek buy their food? Like how do you know the person who picked the potatoes in your sabhji was an amritdhari? Or the guy who packaged the food? Or that the fruit/vegetables that you buy havent been touched before by a non-Amritdhari? Or the people cooking in every Gurudwara are all Amritdhari? Or is it just once it gets to your plate that all of this becomes a major issue?

Khalsa Ji I use to be just like you. But you know when the words you once said seem false and theres nothing you can do to change them. Even though I am not worthy of telling anyone anything, please take this an advice that its best to speak a little.

Of course this is what any logical and sensible person should do. Too many youngsters rush into it thinking it will all change and happen like magic!! Far from it.!!! When you become a khalsa, you become a member of this brotherhood that involves discipline on your behalf. No one in tha army signs up to be a commando without doing any training before hand do they ? So why get initiated with amrit without any preparation ?? Amrit Vela is a 'core' discipline and to get the benefit and anand it should be done at the appropriate times which are 2am to 6am. The 'code' of khalsa conduct should NOT be broken or changed to utilise your lifestyle. So, if you are trying to squeeze in nitnem and doing what should be done at the 'ambrosial or heavenly' hour, just before you get ready to earn your bucks, then you are not practicing accordingly. Yes, Gurpreet ji, I personally don't think you should put your personal lifestyle and work first, once you have taken amrit!

Why not keep the rehat of an amritdhari first? See if you can do it. If you are confident that you can maintain it, then go ahead and take amrit.

It can be difficult to assess what's right and wrong in this day and Age. The short answer is that accepting existence of God without proof is faith and hence the alternative name for religion is faith. I've often toyed with the idea of what the world would be like if it was perfect. I came to the conclusion that it wouldn't work. The human mind as it is would't accept that the world was perfect but question it. What would be the point in existence? The bigger question is the existence of the self: do I really exist? If so, does everyone else exist or are they a figment of my imagination? In the end, you need to judge for yourself whether there is a God or not. I agree that reading Gurbani may help you decide. But it is your choice. To accept yourself as a disciple and learn, you need a teacher - a guide. Guru Ji is always there, waiting for you to approach Him.

Careful there Hammer! Sunny Hundal and Shiha Kaur will be accusing us of bullying our girls to stop them being abused/raped and trapped in Islamic feudalism. They think that everyone in the UK should have the right to be molested and traumatized by peace loving Muslims. Have you contacted SAS and Singhrow about this? Telling them would be a way of giving a people in her area a heads up about what this musiMadam is up to.

N30singh wrote 2. Sutantar Anubhadith Bani Rachna of Sri Dasam Granth sahib ji- This type of rachna is translations of previous compositions written by many tapavasi rishi, munis which in this care were translated by sri dasam patsah. For example- It's well known fact with in academics 405 tales in treh charitar are translated from previous various compositions, one granth being panch tantar, its also well known fact within in academics that many avtars from Chaubis Avtars compositions are directly translated by sri dasam patsah from Sri Bhagvad, Vishnu Puran. 3. Gur Asa Misrat Anubhadith Rachna of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji- This type of rachna means where one explain his/her own stance/beleif/thoughts/sidhant before compositions being translated kinda like commentary. In Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji, sri guru gobind singh ji had this type of rachna as well, specifically in sri dasam granth sahib for example- composition named chandi di // reflects this type of rachna. If one studies chandi di //- sri guru gobind singh ji has given gurmat sidhant in the first(bhaugati ki //) and second pauri of chandi di //. Both pauries is Salutations (Namaskar) to Sri Akaal Purkh. Then if one looks at the third pauri, its preface of chandi di //. Finally then fourth pauri of Chandi Di // is composition directly translated in punjabi taken from 757 stanza of source "Markandai Puran" all the way to last stanza of markandai puratan. ====================================================================================== My response Not only in the beginning but throughout these compositions guru sahib's own writings that have no connection to any puranas/Hindu texts are found.In essence his own composition and views are interspersed in these epics. For example Guns and cannons boom in Chandi charitras.There were no cannons when markandey wrote his purana. There are beautiful shabads in chaubis avtars for example he "rav he sas meri abe benti sunn leeje". In krishna avtar whole parsang of kharag singh (forms major part) is nowhere in any purana.In this real hero is kharag singh who throws krishna on ground by pulling from hair and then let him go saying if he kills him whom he will fight. So dasam granth sahib in entirety is a priceless granth of Guru sahib.It is complex in structure and people who have not studied it should not comment negatively. Dr balbir singh , brother of Bhai veer singh has rightly written that in Dasam Granth there are hidden sparks and with time they will bloom and lead sikh nation to its pristine glory.

At least leave the humanitarian side of things alone for goodness sake GOI

Have a read about Sargun-Nirgun, it makes it easier to understand things. I dont think you can put Sikhi into any one of these categories entirely. Have a read about Panetheism as well. Sikhi should be its own category, thats how unique and amazing it is! :smile2:

This m0r0n is a calculator. He utters the phrase "Page # this, Surah # that, verse # blah blah" in every sentence that comes out of his mouth. His videos should have the tag "for entertainment purposes only".

i want ti read pracheen panth parkaash , plz if you have it post here

Reply Reply

http://puratanjatha.blogspot.ca/2012/12/bhai-randhir-singh-jee-on-sri-dasam.html

Akj.org does not represent the Akhand Kirtani Jatha - it as site run by just a handful of families in Brampton/Toronto and some of their supporters in UK. These missionary minded "penchainees" are tarnishing the Jatha's name just as Dumma and the Rode family is doing the same to the Taksal. The truth is that the real sevadars in the Jatha have been at the fore-front of pro-Dasam Granth prachar for many years, when no one else was even talking about Sri Dasam Granth. Dr. Tarlochan Singh who was very close to Bhai Randhir Singh Ji, was one of the first Singhs to publish pro-Dasam Granth research in English more than five decades ago. He was the father of Dr. Anurag Singh of Ludhiana, another Dasasm Granth Scholar. There has been a ton of pro-Dasam Granth material published by these Singhs in various Panthic magazines including, Sura, FatehNama, Khandaydhar for many years. These sevadars include: - The late Kirtani Bhai Joginder Singh Ji Talwara - Jathedar Bhai Mohinder Singh Ji Kala-Sanghian - Bhai Ratinder Singh (Sr. Editor - Panthic.org) - Toronto Tapoban Singhs - Shahbaaz Khalsa Singhs - California Jatha Singhs, etc. www.AkhandKirtaniJatha.org (not affiliated with akj.org) has many articles and press releases published by these sewadars. The late Bhai Joginder Singh Ji Talwara was one of the first scholars to counter Gurbakash Kala-Afghana's parchar and instrumental in having him ex-communicated from the Sikh panth. It was the Tapoban Singhs and Shahbaaz Khalsa Singhs who gave fitting replies to naasticks like Ghagga and Jeonwala when others were willing to debate them publicly. It was primarily the California Jatha Singhs who challenged Kala-Afghana in Roseville, and in Selma about 10 years back, and Pakhandi VeerBhupinder when he showed up in Fremont California not to long ago. Due to the dirty politics of akj.org, there has been an active boycott by the akj.org group against Bhai Mohinder Singh, Tapoban Singhs, Shahbaaz Khalsa, and California Singhs, because they are unwilling to participate in their missionary minded mis-parchar. Unfortunately, many youths in Toronto, Vancouver, and California who call themselves "Taksalis" or "Nihangs" continue to attend programs coordinated by akj.org naastics and their surrogates and have even joined in the boycott of the pro-Dasam Granth sevadars. Thanks to the hard work of the Indian government agencies and the naastic Badal Akali Dal sarkar, most current day Panthic institutions have been hijacked by shady individuals who are doing bidding for their master - the Jatha is not immune from this either, nor is the Taksal, Budha Dal, or any other panthic group.

AKJ singhs of India are firm believers in Dasam Bani. There was a reinsabhai at fatehgarh sahib last week and singhs of jatha recited many shabads from Dasam Granth sahib. Bhai sahib Randhir singh ji himself a firm believer in Dasam bani.Akal ustat, bachitra natak and chndi di vaar were part of his nitnem. Having said that there are some claiming to be akj , mostly based in UK, who are against Dasam granth sahib and are supporters of person like dhundha as was evident from dhundha's visit to uK a few weeks back. In my view such people should be exposed as they are a disgrace to akj. There should be open discussion on this instead of suppressing this issue.Only then we will know the fakes.

Anyone spot the post where Harmandir Sahib Sarovar is being put in the same boat as ganga? With this type of illogic thinking Khanda Bhatte da Amrit is no different than the janeu. Can anyone share how Harmandir Sahib Sarovar is different than ganga? What is the ganga missing. Also just in case the Brahmins come in and trying to play mind tricks and say they are the same. Remember two concepts of Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj; Nirgun and Sargun. The ganga are missing one of these. If the Brahmin says it only needs one, then tell the Brahmins to go take a bath in cow blood. Cow blood also has one of the two. :biggrin2:

Read Shree Guru Granth Sahib slowly, if you cannot in Punjabee at least online in English because as as Guru, SGGS teaches and enlightens us about God. You have started a load of questions and there are more that will arise. However a slow systematic reading of Shree Guru Granth Sahib will help you figure out all the answers to your doubts, confusions and questions. A white lady from Boston, America who has just completed her PhD at Oxford University came to me a few years ago and asked me questions like yours. I recommended her to get online and read SGGS slowly from ang to ang(page) very systematically. Now her faith in God has become strong and she sttends satsangs and changed her name to a Sikh name etc etc. Our mind can churn out questions 10 every minute because the brain is a strong computer than can think of things in many different ways. So no matter who answers you in which ever way you will find a way to rebut and flick off because your mind is in a debating mode as it is beginning to convince itself that there is no God and that if there is God then it leads to a lot of apparent paradoxes and contradictions which then in turn negate the existence of God. Hence the simple issue is if you think SGGS is not your Guru and cannot enlighten you about God then I dont know what to say. However if you are a humble person and do feel SGGS as your teacher and guide, then all I can advise is for you to read SGGS especially using translations so your Guru can whisper into the ears of your brain and mind the secrets of God so that slowly slowly your faith will build up and you will start seeing the answers to all your questions. As the level of our understanding advances and reaches new levels we start to understand things we could not before, and their interrelationships. Also God is not be just understood intellectually but to be experienced and loved. Your closeness to your mother is not just at an intellectual level, likewise a person can start with a tiny seed like faith in the Divine, and as your life progresses that faith can grow into a mighty tree because with God it is a two way relationship. God is a God of reciprocity and revelation. This means the little faith you go to God with will be rewarded by God enlightening you about His existence and revealing Himself in many ways, so it helps build up your faith and understanding of God. Many things you questioned about God do not need answers rightaway for you to know and believe and experience God and go further with God. On the contrary, put away all your constant confusions and doubts and instead as I said bow before SGGS next time you go to a gurdwara and beg God to help you realise and experience Him and also you need to imediately start reading SGGS translations starting from ang(page)1. Just read and ponder and take in and continue. No one on earth can teach you better than SGGS about God, and about God's nature and how and why He does things.

How does someone, who claims they don't know what God is, write a whole paragraph asking about why God does what He does? How do you know what He does, if you don't know what He is?

Oh dear. The irony of the 'muslim pork shop' obviously flew straight over your head. :biggrin2: If learning from the likes of you means being unable to string a coherent sentence together then you're right......the rest of us have much to learn from you. You are oh so more advanced.

I will have to agree with veer Chatanga as these puratan saroops themselves are not consistent in the manner Gurbani was scribed. It seems that the overzealous writers of this "news" article did not have all the facts on hand when they put this article together. The truth is that pretty much 100% Saroops printed or scribed today do not have the same text and lagga-matra as the original Damdami Birr. Contrary to all the claims by various Sikh institutions, it is an accepted fact that the Panth no longer has in it's possession the original Damdami Birr or a direct copy of it. Despite the fact that Sikhs are the only people that considers their scriptures as "Guru", as a Panth, we have no system or procedures to check for the accuracy of the text that is either written or published as a saroop of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. In the past much of the blame of this carelessness had been thrown on Nirmala and Udasee scribes of the 18th and 19th century - some of it unfairly since it was the Panth's duty to independently verify the accuracy of this seva. Consider the manner how the Jewish Torah, which Jews do not even consider as their Guru, is precisely handwritten and exhaustibly reviewed for accuracy and can be invalidated even if a single error is made in the text. Does this mean Jews have more respect for the Torah than we have for Guru Granth Sahib Ji? At least it seems like it in all practicality. Sadly, most handwritten saroops and published saroops contain hundreds of variations and differences in the Gurbani text and lagga-matra. Nothing is ever done about it, in fact, in due time, those saroops themselves become the source for text when new Saroops are written or published. At a Panthic level, no effort has being made to identify and preserve the original Gurbani text and lagga-matra, except by the late Bhai Joginder Singh Talwara, along with Vedanti Ji who spent more than 20 years researching puratan Saroops - many of them have since perished due to the 1984 attack and general neglect. Additionally, no effort has been made to implement fruits of their invaluable research. More than 50 years ago, Udasai Harnam Daas (formerly known as the Budha Dal Nihang Naurang Singh, who compiled and standardized Sarabloh Granth after years of researching Sri Dasam Bani and Guru Granth Sahib Ji's Bani), finally concluded that the the not only was the Kartarpuri Birr (currently with the Sodhi family) not the original Birr but that he had not come across an accurately scribed Saroop of Guru Granth Sahib in all the years of his research. The ardously compiled "Paatth Bhedan Dee Soochee" by Bhai Randhir Singh (SGPC Research Scholar), Giani Kundan Singh, and and Bhai Gian Singh Nihang illustrates the wide differences of text across the widely known puratan Saroops housed by the Panth. The sad truth is nothing is being done to solve this most serious dilemma. In the digital media, these inaccuracies are now being imported into Gurbani search engines, and mobile apps and thus the errors continue to proliferate exponentially.. Instead of blaming each other, fighting over petty issues, perhaps the priority of the Panth should be to revive the research to standardize on the most "sudh" printing of the Damdami Saroop - shabd by shabd, akhar by akhar, lagga-matra by lagga matra. Guru bakshish karay!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Could you guys please share some links to really good Katha that would be beneficial to me? Something which will give me a deeper knowledge of Gurbanee, but is simple to understand. I'm having a lot of trouble finding things. I want to start reading Sikhi books to expand my knowledge but I just don't know where to even start, I really just need a starting point. As I'm new to this I was hoping the sangat could give me some recommendations Thankyou all in advance, I hope you can help this moorakh sister of yours get her life on the right path again. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Aacha ji teek ah N30S1NGH Sahib. The shariapanthi sampradaya has really taken off though, dont you think?! Haha!

As mentioned guys, its not good to have doubts within gurbani ( as to which mantar is powerful.. mool mantar vs gurmantar?) but with that being said, mool mantar have its own purpose- sant isher singh ji maharaj rara sahib used to advise students to do 108 paki mala mool mantar a day (108 kachi mala= 1 paki mala) for 1 year before even taking amrit from panj pyares from his jatha, so one is mentally ready for amrit, and also so one's birthi/surti (intuition which is spread all over) becomes more shuksham(subtle) and subtle to the point where one consciousness start slowly getting attached in the mantra/shabad. Many bhramgyanis including damdami taksal bhramgyanis advise their students starts with 108 japji sahib, sava lakh of mool mantar a day precisely because as beginner it will hard to grasp/take in intensity on vahiguroo mantra or bij mantra- ikongkar. As a beginner one surti/intuition is not subtle as its spread out everywhere so longer the mantra ( be it mool mantar, mala mantra- japji sahib) easier it is for beginners to concentrate on meaning/make their surti/birthi more more subtle. One could take mool mantra, mala mantra as pre-requisite for beginners but with that being said, there is no hard and fast rule, it depends on the individual- one could dive in mool mantra and have its surti lost it in and get their consciousness connected to it fully and get to sachkhand but on other hand depending on person's avastha- after one's surti becomes sukhsham/subtle yet not fully connected to mantra can jump in doing jaap of gurmantra- Vahiguroo to intensify their bhagti..!! There is no hard and fast rule regarding this one, depends on each individual person's avastha.

Paaji, no mantar is stronger than the other it all depends on your avastha. Gurbani is sampooran. You can meditate on sukhmani manglacharan if you want or jaaap sahib, gobinde mukhande....or ay mantra that takes you from where you are to ananad..simran is a marothan not a sprint......we all know our own individual sehaj anand/yog just get in tune with your real self...try one week with mool mantra then try one week with vaheguru mantra......all the best...

Dhundha is a product of missionary school where they preach atheism. Leave aside Dasam Granth dhundha neither understands nor believes in message of SGGS ji. An ill educated with 10 grade education he is at best an imposter who flaunts undeserved title of professor.

TO SSM KHALSA JI, GURU NANAK DEV JI KEHNDE NE: "JIYOON TYON PREM KHELEN KA CHAOO, SIR DAR TALI GALI MERI AAVO.." LAST TIME I WROTE THAT GURU GOBIND SINGH JI SAID...I MEAN GURU NANAK DEV JI = GURU GOBIND SINGH JI... JOY IK HAIN. DIFFRANT WAS ONLY THAT GURU NANAK DEV JI NE THEORY DUARA SAMJAYEA HAIN OR GURU GOBUN SINGH JI NE PRECTICAL KAR DIKHAEYA... IF I'M WRONG, PLS CORRECT BHUL CHUK MAAF. WJKK, WJKF

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! Getae veer daas has allways seen u say ultaa then majority of the forum,gurmukho im moorakh mugadh cant learn anything atlest u learn malko bhul chuk de khemma jeo.

You shouldn't be mis quoting Guru Gobind Signh ji :wub: @ @ @ <_< <_<

sikhlionz, So all the Gurdware that you listed above serve Meat and Alcohol are you 100% sure.