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WJKK WJKF I'm 15 years old, I've grown up in a non-amritdhari family and my dad cuts his hair. I've kept my kesh my entire life and so has my younger brother. I've been doing kirtan and path for most of my life, my dad has no problems with that. But I wear a dhamalla/gol pagh and my parents don't like that. I don't want to wear the other type of "regular" pagh that he wants me to wear ...my dad tells me dhamlla's make people look uneducated. He also makes me use fixo for my beard, while I want to keep it open. Another problem that I'm facing is my masee (aunt)... wants me to trim my beard! And I've told her I don't want to and never will, but she keeps on annoying me about it. What can I do to get my aunt and my dad to just let me do what I want? Any help would be great. Thanks. WJKK WJKF

Keep your head up by doing more paath. Not only will this increase your jeevan and give you more strength, but Satguru will also take away the bad attitudes around you. Satguru says don't pay attention to what others are saying. Acknowledge the person, but disregard what they are saying and keep your full faith on what Satguru is saying. If you engage in a discussion with your Massi, she will play many mind games as all Punjabis have been practicing their whole lives. So don't say a word and keep saying han ji, han ji, han ji. If she ask are you going to cut it now after all of her convincing be like Satguru will help in this matter. In other words, you need to build the patience and humility to stand up to what you are facing. Sounds odd because many times we are told to fight for what we believe in. But in these type of situations Satguru tells us to be patient and be humble. It seems as you are facing an outer battle with your massi and dad as they are telling you to do something against Satguru, but really you are facing an inner battle within yourself. Becoming angry and upset with them shows that you are lacking to some degree patience and humility. Cool the inner heat of the body by doing more paath and what they say will not bother you. Satguru will do his kirpa on you

The first Sant to be born in the UK left this earth to merge with the one creator on 13th August 2008 in California, USA. Sant Mani Singh's body has been flown back to England for his funeral, which is to be held on Saturday 30th August 2008 at Akal Bunga, 15 Silverton Road, Smethwick. The Sikh Congregation will have the opportunity to pay their last respects from 6.30am before the congregation depart for West Bromwich Crematorium at 9am. Sant Mani Singh was named Resham Singh at birth at St Chads Hospital Birmingham on 4th November 1970 at approximately 1am. He was raised and bred in Smethwick, West Midlands until he graduated from Secondary High School. Between his childhood and teenage years he remained unattached from materialistic objects just as a lotus blossom remains untouched by the water. He was to join the British Royal Marines, but had no idea what royalty awaited his existence. Whilst throwing away the career of the Royal Marines and serving the country, he instead decided to serve the whole of humanity. Following enlightenment Sant Mani Singh stayed in deep meditation from 25th December 1990 to 13th April 1991 at the invitation of Guru Nanak Nishkam Sevak Jatha, Soho Road, Handsworth. In absolute deep meditation, he was drunk with the divine. During this period no thirst or hunger disturbed him, a great ecstasy took over him. A question was asked at the time, what was the significance of this mediation? He smiled and said "I must have lost my consciousness, so drunk, so drowned. I must have been so drunk in the beatitude of realization that I must have forgot the wide world." On 15th April 1991 he came into the congregation at Guru Nanak Nishkam Sevak Jatha when Bhai Sahib Bhai Nurung Singh stated "you are a mirror that reflects so marvelously and as such your name should be Mani Singh rather than Resham Singh." Sant Mani Singh spent the last ten years researching into the Sikh Scriptures with the desire to write the Sikh Scriptures using twenty four carat gold, which would be placed on the throne at Sri Harimandhar Sahib. Due to the complexity and intricacy of this task it was only this year that the technique for producing the scriptures was perfected. The first four Ang (pages) where shown to the congregated two months ago and the methodology to complete the project was described to their close associates. With the blessings of the Almighty this project will continue to fruition to produce the first ever Sikh Scriptures in gold. When a Mahapurkh (enlightened soul) leaves the earth he always leaves something behind. Sant Mani Singh has left behind for us all the methodology of how to serve our living Guru, Guru Granth Sahib Ji. This is a unique gift for the Sikh Panth and should be treasured.

Tell Them your gonna cut your hair/beard, start drinking,smoking, drug dealing, never gonna work, start stealing and taking drugs or do they want you to stay the same wear a dhamalla and keep you beard open, that should do it and make them think, as for your aunt take no notice of here she should worry about her own family (without being disrespectful), keep your faith and path strong, you are a son to be proud of !! :biggrin2:

Neither your dad nor your massi will be present in dharam raj's court .Decision is in your hands .If you are determined no one can move you away specially that aunt....

WaheguruJiKaKhalsa!!WaheguruJiKiFateh!! there is no prblem in wear a type of pagh, its upto you dont use fixo tell ur massi to shave her head she isnt worthy of keeping her hair - kidding dont be bothered - parents will be parents . let them do there stuff- nagg let urself do ur stuff - sikhi

It's kaljug, what else can we expect? The wise are called fools and the fools are called wise. Keep doing what you are doing, stay strong in your faith and principles and don't compromise them for anyone. Who knows, maybe one day your family may be inspired by you to change their ways. You never know when Guru Ji will choose to bestow his grace on someone.

i don't know why parents have a problem when their kids follow sikhi... they didn't have the guts to stand up for their religion atleast they shouldn't stop others from doing it...i am in the same trouble too...i haven't even yet took amrit and they are already making a big deal out of it... well for u brother, all i can say is don't listen to them. u are doing a very good thing...good luck

UNITED NATIONS ASKED TO PROBE KILLINGS OF SIKHS IN PUNJAB 6 July 2013 Khalsa Human Rights, the human rights wing of the Sikh Federation (UK), has written to Professor Christof Heyn, the UN Special Rapporteur on extra judicial, summary or arbitrary executions following the confession last week by Sub-Inspector Surjit Singh of the atrocities committed by him and security forces in Punjab in the early 1990s. Surjit Singh who has gone into hiding since his confession has claimed to have killed 83 Sikhs in false encounters on the orders of Senior Superintendent of Police (SSP) Paramjit Singh Gill. He has stated that he did not know if the young men were guilty or innocent, and they were killed unlawfully: ‘The guilty were killed, and innocent [young men] were also brought to me to be killed. I didn’t know whether they were guilty or innocent, but I was told to kill them regardless.’ In a subsequent interview he also revealed that senior officials threatened that he would meet the same end as human rights defender Jaswant Singh Khalra, who was illegally detained and murdered by Punjab Police for investigating secret mass cremations. He stated that senior officials told him: ‘If you open your mouth, then like Jaswant Singh Khalra who was investigating the 25,000 missing bodies, and went missing himself—the same will happen to you.’ A Khalsa Human Rights spokesman said: ‘We understand human rights activist Kirpal Singh Randhawa has said that the Punjab and Haryana High Court would be approached to obtain a CBI investigation into the matter.’ ‘However, we do not think India can conduct an independent and impartial investigation into the atrocities that will result in the identification and prosecution of responsible police officers.’ ‘We have therefore written to the UN Special Rapporteur who has recently criticised India to ensure international pressure is exerted on India.’ Bhai Amrik Singh, the Chair of the Sikh Federation (UK) added: ‘From what Surijit Singh has described these are clear cases of extrajudicial and arbitrary executions that are illegal and without due regard to the law or legal procedure as defined by the United Nations.’ ‘Khalsa Human Rights are waiting for further information from lawyers and human rights activists about the 83 Sikh killed before submitting the Model Questionnaire developed by the Special Rapporteur as there is no need to exhaust domestic remedies in India before taking the matter to the United Nations.’ Jaspal Singh Co-ordinator, Khalsa Human Rights

I think people are being too harsh... Firstly, I'd like to point out that those people that hark back to the days of "malkit singh" etc should remember these people never ever came out in support of sant ji or spoke about the issues in Punjab even though they were worse during the 80's! In fact Malkit literally ran the other direction when he saw the professor Bhullar protestors at Downing Street during Vaisakhi time... go ask the people who were there! Secondly, just because Tigerstyle or Jazzy B are khalistan supports or respect the bachan of Sant ji doesnt mean they cant preform in India or declare love for Indian culture/music! What your asking for is outright hate... thats wrong... India deserves to exist and flourish as does Khalistan deserve to exist and flourish! Jazzy B and Tigerstyle have taken the movement further into the mainstream with music.... I mean sure they havent got hate for everything to do with India or Indians... but if anyone does thats what you would call extremists! I like eating Gujji food and declare my love for the food that comes from different parts of India.. does that make me anti-Khalistani!? Isnt Khalsa without hate!? and lastly, Jazzy B associates and makes music with hard kaur... does that automatically mean he endorses her views or actions? Surely his actions and words should be judged on his own merits! Remember this was an artist that was willing to answer critics in the media including our own Nihal on Sant Ji and 84 etc... how many other punjabi artists would be willing to stand up for those principles?!... well defoo not malkit singh anyway!

On a tangent, we all know where the justification comes from for sexual crimes initiated by Islamic zealots. When its their ideology why wouldn't they do it?????

These Singhs are from Maharajah Ranjit Singh Ji's times. Can we add more to the list with a short biography?? Gyani Sant Singh Ji (1768-1832 A.D.) The fifth head of Damdami Taksal and one of the famed proponents of the Nirmala order Gyani Sant Singh Ji's name has become synonymous with the divinity and mysticism of the Khalsa empire. Gurmat was a hereditary tradition of his family, his father Gyani Soorat Singh was the third head of Damdami Taksal followed suite by his brother Gyani Gurdass Singh Ji. Receiving an extensive amount of education in Gurmat from both his father and brother he became a famed treasure trove of spiritual knowledge at a young age, and imbued the unique saintliness given to the Khalsa by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Subsequently his brother nominated him for leading Taksal in his stead before encountering his demise, and from 1790 A.D. commenced the daily exegesis of the foremost recital of Guru Granth Sahib in Darbar Sahib. Parallel to this he tutored many youngsters in Gurmat-lore and Khalsa principles. His dynamic style of education, and blatant practicality brought him to the attention of Maharajah Ranjit Singh who decided to test his resolve. The Maharajah dispatched two messengers to the Gyani's residence ordering him to present himself before the Maharajah, the Gyani seated the two messengers in his abode and served them food and engaged them in conversation. After noticing the absence of his messengers the Maharajah dispatched two more messengers to the Gyani's stead. The Gyani treated them in the same fashion as their predecessors, he then had them accompany him to Darbar Sahib where he provided his daily exegesis to the congregation. The Maharajah also attended this service and after hearing the Gyani's melodious explanation, sought an audience with him and publicly praised him for his services. Captivated by the Gyani's mystical charisma the Maharajah bestowed upon the Gyani, the honor tutoring his own grandson, the illustrious Kanwar Nau Nihal Singh. An honor which the Gyani accepted in the context of a service and set about with a legendary enthusiasm. Despite being the head custodian of Darbar sahib the Gyani was extensively humble and did not hold any distinctions between highness and lowness. This quality of his was depicted by his daily routine in Darbar Sahib. He would observe a circular locomotion of the outer precincts of Darbar Sahib, and collect the various garbage in his hands and cremate it with the utmost respect. His faith in the Guru was tempered via steel. When Maharajah Ranjit Singh was displaced from his horse, in battle, and subsequently lost consciousness the Gyani lifted him on his back and traversed to a nearby fort unaided, unarmed and unprotected. As a result he was made one of the Maharajah's advisors, a move which catalyzed in the prosperity of the Khalsa empire. When the Maharajah plated Harmandir Sahib in gold, it was the Gyani who oversaw the service. After nominated Sant Daya Singh, an erstwhile student of his, as sixth head of Taksal he departed for his heavenly abode in 1832 A.D. Kabit – (This is the invocation to the teacher of Bhai Santokh Singh Ji) Forever was my teacher (Vidya Guru) imbued in the name of God as his consciousness was engrossed in the concentration of the Lord. The name of my Vidya Guru was ‘Bhai Sant Singh’ who was forever in the company of other saints. Bhai Sant Singh Ji was friendly, graceful, content and righteous. From childhood they ever remained engrossed in the meditation of the name of God. I have taken a drop of sweat from the feet of Bhai Sant Singh Ji and put it in my mouth (this is not a reference to Charan Pahul as Bhai Santokh Singh Ji took Khande Da Amrit however it is metaphoric for watching someone’s life and adopting the same as them). From accepting their spiritual discourses I have become great and diligent. The feet of Bhai Sant Singh Ji are beautiful like a lotus blossom and grant the gift of liberation. I am folding both of my hands and bowing to the feet of Bhai Sant Singh Ji as their feet are forever the abode of bliss. 33. -Kavi Santokh Singh in praise of his educational Guru, Gyani Sant Singh Ji. Baba Sahib Singh Ji Bedi. A descendant of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, and an extensively altruistic personage, Baba Sahib Singh Bedi was an embodiment of the Khalsa discipline during the latter's imperial period. Born in 1756 A.D. in Punjab, he joined his family in it's migration to the Sivalik hills where they found residence in the township of Una. An ancestral residence where the family held extensive properties. After the demise of his father in 1776 A.D, and his own subsequent succession, the Baba built a magnificent fortress at Una to ward off foreign raiders and provide an education in the Khalsa ethos. Hundreds flocked to his wing and simultaneously spread his fame far and wide, as a result thousands flocked to his abode to receive the Khalsa's initiatory rights at his blessed limbs. A strict adherent of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's commands he also mastered political science, and became a mediator in-between the various chieftains who plagued Punjab's political landscape in the mid-seventeenth century. A keen intellectual and an extensive adherent of military matters, the Baba planned an expedition against the Afghani governor Ata Ullah Khan of Malerkotla. In this he was joined by the famed Baghel Singh, chieftain of the Karora-Singhia confederacy; Tara Singh Ghaiba, and Bhanga Singh of Thanesar. Ironically however, in an extensive parallel to it's ancestor Ala Singh, the Phulkian confederacy aided Ata Ullah Khan and subsequently after adhering to a war indemnity, Baba Sahib Singh and his coalition retreated. Despite this early blow to his battle interests the Baba was not mentally vanquished, after re-assigning his forces he launched another extensive crusade in 1798 A.D. This time he renewed his prior coalition and with the aid of Tara Singh, Gurdit Singh and Jodh Singh he engaged Rai Illyas of Raikot in a tactical skirmish. After a stunning victory over his opponent, he traversed on wards to Jagroan, Dakha, Badoval, Ludhiana and ultimately Mansuran subsequently ending with his carving of these new territories into a new fiefdom. During Shah Zaman's prolonged invasion, and simultaneous looting, of Punjab he spearheaded an effective campaign against the latter's forces ultimately prolonging the Khalsa's resistance and inflicting a high amount of casualties on the Shah's forces. With the advent of Sukerchakia dominance, the Baba allied himself with the young Ranjit Singh and assisted the latter in vanquishing Gulab Singh, scion of the Bhangi confederacy. This allegiance ultimately catalyzed in the declaration of Ranjit Singh as emperor of Punjab in 1801 A.D. As a sign of gratitude Ranjit Singh made the Baba a honorary member of the polity, and on his ascension to the throne, had the Baba perform the coronation rites. A trail blazing reformer, in his own right, the Baba wrestled the property of various Khalsa shrines from corrupt administrations even going to the great length of confronting the latter. The proletariat accorded to him the status of a saint and conferred upon him many a honorary rank. It is said that before her son's coronation Maharajah Ranjit Singh's mother expressed her concern over her son's militant tendencies, the Baba chuckled at her nervousness and prophesied that even the rivers of Punjab would have to stop in front of her son's ambitions. Noticing the poverty afflicting the populace of Punjab, the Baba initiated a new crusade where langar was distributed freely to all or any individual, irregardless of caste or creed, who entered any Khalsa shrine or resided in it's vicinity. This practice of Guru Nanak Dev was extensively prolonged by the Baba who in it's aftermath migrated to Nanakana Sahib. Noticing the deficiency of food supplies in the shrine's kitchens the Baba sought an audience with Ranjit Singh. After hearing how the devotees were availed of all material cares by the shrine, yet the shrine itself lacked the basic necessities required for it's upkeep, Ranjit Singh gifted 1,000 acres of land towards Nanakana sahib's upkeep, property still preserved by the regional Sikh populace. An extensive treasure-trove of Khalsa lore and the third principle of the Bhai Daya Singh 'samprada' (order), the Baba breathed his last in 1834 A.D. The Legend of "Karnivala." Despite leading the sub-continent's, and simultaneously the Khalsa's, first revolution against Anglo expansionism the image of Bhai Maharaj Singh "Karnivala" still remains shrouded in mist. A veritable Bhindranwale of his times, he commenced a Herculean rebellion on an unprecedented scale to eradicate colonialism from the entire sub-continent. A unique vision which was not shared by any of his contemporary insurrectionists. Born in Ludhiana (his birth date is not known) to pious Sikh parents he was enrolled into the tutelage of Bhai Bir Singh, at Naurangabad, at a young age. His maturity and strict conformation of the Khalsa code soon saw him being delegated the chieftain ship of Naurangabad's kitchens and simultaneously the role of Bhai Bir Singh's aide-de-camp. His humility and high precepts catalyzed in him being blessed with amrit by his master and subsequently being renamed Bhai Bhagwan Singh. The Naurangabad congregation simultaneously bestowed on him the title of "Maharaj" or great authoritarian due to his high mindset and perception. The "Sotto Vocce" assertions of the Dogra polity and it's subtle maneuvers catalyzed in the emergence of heavy factionalism in-between the Lahore polity and in order to save their lives, two strident critics of the Dogra influence, Attar Singh Sandhanwalia and Prince Kashmira Singh sought refugee at Naurangabad. Simultaneously Naurangabad was besieged by Hira Singh Dogra and his formidable entourage of 20,000 troops and 50 cannons. On receiving the blatant refusal of his preposterous demands he commenced a bloody barrage which saw the fiery demise of the two refugees and their senior patron, Bhai Bir Singh. In the aftermath of the carnage, Bhai Maharaj Singh was declared as successor to Bhai Bir Singh's mystical legacy and the veritable head of his dera. Garnering knowledge of the Dogra treachery, via indigenous sources, the Bhai shifted camp to Jalandhar and established a headquarters from where he cemented contact with the disposed Maharani Jind Kaur. Availing her of her difficulties during her imprisonment, he also established contact with the young Prince Deep Singh's aboriginal wards and commenced an agenda which encapsulated the remaining independent entities of Punjab and incited them to revolt against their new despots. Gaining intelligence regarding the Bhai's designs, the British dispatched the young Deep Singh to Mussori and placed extensive surveillance on the Bhai. In 1847 A.D. they confiscated the Bhai's property and instigated him in an assassination plot targeting Henry Lawrence, the contemporary British Resident to Lahore. Unwilling to surrender and extinguish his young crusade the Bhai, along with six hundred of his ardent adherents, sought shelter in the jungles of Chumbh and commenced the execution of a new operation. One which would see the birth of a sub-continental coalition aiming to eradicate all colonial designs for India. Garnering knowledge of his whereabouts the British incited the regional Islamic zealots to commence a manhunt and capture the Bhai, who proved to be far too elusive and subtly departed Chumbh. Knowing that an extensive number of the Khalsa chieftains would not willingly submit to the British yoke, the Bhai set about contacting them. With the blessings of Chattar Singh Attari he contacted Mul-Raaj, the governor of Multan and explained his future designs to him. The latter was highly captivated by the Bhai's charismatic character and set a series of events in motion, which upon execution, resulted in the commencement of the second Anglo-Sikh war. With the advent of the war, the Bhai was found serving at Ram-Nagar, Chillianwala and Gujrat, in the aftermath of which he elusively retreated from the battlefield and commenced a long-drawn dance against the British antagonists. Endeared to the regional populace, the Bhai and his entourage rapidly increased, and found shelter with an extensive amount of proletariat(s). His ability to evade capture and incite the masses soon saw the Bhai earn the title of "Karnivala" or the performer of miracles. After his failure in inviting a confounded Dost Muhammad Khan (the latter had submitted to Maharajah Sher Singh, and joined the Attari's at Chillianwala in the aftermath of which he had retreated) to incorporate himself into a potential coalition, the Bhai drew up a new plan. He aimed to unleash a two pronged strike against the British heart. The commencement would incite the Jalandhar region into rebellion, and the conclusion would catalyze in a potential national coalition and the expulsion of colonialism. To this end he set about testing the British resolve. He commenced ruthless raids and subsequent destruction of the Hajipur, Hoshiarpur and Jalandhar cantonments. Emboldened by the feeble British resistance he commenced to loot the treasury at Bajwara. Realizing that he had created a fertile atmosphere for rebellion he announced his intention to annihilate all the British cantonments in Jalandhar. Heavily supported by the local populace he traveled from village to village spreading his gospel of justice and rebellion. The attack would commence on 3rd January 1850 A.D. and plausibly end with the expulsion of the entire colonial administration from Punjab. Ironically only five days before his planned execution of the sub-continental rebellion, he was arrested near Adampur by the Deputy Commissioner of Police, Jalandhar. Along with twenty unarmed prisoners he was imprisoned in the residential jail. Fearing an outburst of pro-secessionist violence, the local authorities had him deported to Singapore after a Kangaroo court. On 9th July 1850 A.D. he was imprisoned in Outram Jail Singapore. Over the next six years he developed tongue cancer, rheumatic swelling among other anatomical diseases. Yet even these did not break his ever optimistic spirit, and iron-resolve in the obedience of his Guru's will. Ultimately on 5th July 1956 A.D. he breathed his last and discarded the mortal plane for a more spiritual one. http://tisarpanth.blogspot.co.nz/ Akali Phoola Singh, I have to complete that one.

Ignore them with a smile

living super lavish, fraud, con man.

Even the best Muslim sources are openly admitting Hazrat Aisha was 6 when marriage began + Hazrat Muhammad was 51. And that sirf unki suhaag raath was when Hazrat Aisha was 9 and Hazrat Muhammad Sahib was 54 years old Aisha's Age of Consummation {C}{C} {C}From WikiIslam, the online resource on Islam{C}{C} {C}{C}Jump to: navigation, search {C}{C} The age difference between 9 year old Aisha and 54 year old Muhammad was 45 years This article discusses the DMS (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual) of mental disorders and cites sahih hadiths to prove that Prophet Muhammad was a pedophile according to clinical definitions. For all related sahih hadiths confirming Aisha's age at marriage and consummation, see: Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Aisha. For a comprehensive refutation of all the claims that Aisha was older than 9, see: Refutation of Modern Muslim Apologetics Against Aisha's Age. And for all other apologetic arguments, see: Responses to Apologetics: Muhammad and Aisha. Contents [hide] 1 Pedophilia1.1 Pedophilia according to DSM-IV-TR 2 Was Muhammad a Pedophile? 2.1 Only pre-pubescent girls were allowed to play with dolls 2.1.1 Sahih Bukhari2.1.1.1 Alternative Translations 2.1.2 Does the phrase 'little girls' mean pre-pubescent? 2.2 Aisha was pre-pubescent when Muhammad consummated the marriage 2.3 Consummating the marriage means sexual intercourse 2.3.1 Abu-Dawud Book 41, Number 49142.3.1.1 Proof One 2.3.1.2 Proof Two 2.3.1.3 Proof Three 2.3.1.4 Proof Four 2.4 Summary 3 Conclusion 4 See Also 5 External Links 6 References [edit] Pedophilia Many critics of Islam claim Muhammad's relationship with Aisha was a pedophilic relationship, therefore Muhammad was a pedophile. Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: "Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old." Sahih Muslim 8:3310 In psychiatry, the most commonly used diagnostic criteria for diagnosing psychiatric ailments are those from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of mental disorders. The latest issue is DSM-IV-TR. The DSM classification is a system that classifies and defines all accepted psychiatric ailments and symptoms, with their inclusion and exclusion criteria. The following are the inclusion and exclusion criteria for pedophilia (302.2): [edit] Pedophilia according to DSM-IV-TR A. Over a period of at least six months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger).B. The person has acted on these sexual urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies caused marked distress or interpersonal difficulty. C. The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A. Note: This does not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12- or 13-year-old. Diagnostic Critiera for Pedophilia Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Psychiatry Online "According to the DSM-IV definition, pedophilia involves sexual activity by an adult with a prepubescent child. Some individuals prefer females, usually 8- to 10-year-olds. Those attracted to males usually prefers slightly older children. Some prefer both sexes. While some are sexually attracted only to children, others also are sometimes attracted to adults.Pedophiliac activity may involve undressing and looking at the child or more direct physical sex acts. All these activities are psychologically harmful to the child, and some may be physically harmful. In addition, individuals with pedophilia often go to great lengths to obtain photos, films or pornographic publications that focus on sex with children. These individuals commonly explain their activities with excuses or rationalizations that the activities have "educational value" for the child, that the child feels "sexual pleasure" from the activities or that the child was "sexually provocative." However, child psychiatrists and other child development experts maintain that children are incapable of offering informed consent to sex with an adult. Furthermore, since pedophiliac acts harm the child, psychiatrists condemn publications or organizations that seek to promote or normalize sex between adults and children." Diagnostic Critiera for Pedophilia Medem Medical Library In the following article, it will be shown that Muhammad's relationship with Aisha did indeed meet all the criteria to make the diagnosis of pedophilia, and therefore Muhammad was undoubtedly a pedophile. [edit] Was Muhammad a Pedophile? Modern day Islamic apologists, and Islamophiles alike, will very often claim that Aisha had reached puberty by the time Muhammad married and had sexual intercourse with her. However, they never provide verifiable proof for this bold assertion. Instead, they rely on the pre-Islamic culture and traditional practices of 7th Century Arabia as evidence of their claim. This is of course completely false, as demonstrated by the hadith and the commentary of one of Islam's most famous scholars, Imam Al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar Al-'Asqalani, Commander of the Faithful in Hadith, Qadi of Egypt, and author of the celebrated commentary on Sahih Bukhari, "Fateh al-Bari." To prove that Aisha was still pre-pubescent when Muhammad married and had sex with her, one has to understand Ibn Hajar's explanation of the permissibility of doll-playing for pre-pubescent girls in Islam. Applying this doll-playing exegesis to the ahadith of Aisha getting married or when she first had sex with Muhammad, one can effectively demonstrate that she was pre-pubescent on these occasions This evidence will be examined in the following three sections. [edit] Only pre-pubescent girls were allowed to play with dolls This is what the great hadith scholar, Shaykh al-Islam Imam Al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar Al-'Asqalani, Commander of the Faithful in Hadith, Qadi of Egypt, had to say in regards to doll-playing and little girls: [edit] Sahih Bukhari Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13) Sahih Bukhari 8:73:151 How do we know that it was Ibn Hajar who made the above (bolded) doll-playing exegesis? We know this by the reference to Fateh-al-Bari and also due to the fact that when we look at other translations of Bukhari 8:73:151, the same message is conveyed. [edit] Alternative Translations One On the authority of Aisha (RA), who said: I used to play with dolls in the presence of the Prophet (SAW). And I had girl-friends (playmates) who played along with me. They would hide (feeling shy) from him (SAW) whenever he entered. But, he (SAW) would send for them to join me and they would play with me. (Sahih Bukhari & Muslim) Little Girls Playing With Dolls The Islamic Ruling Concerning Tasweer, Abu Muhammad Abdur-Ra'uf Shakir The translator then provides some discussion on translations of various versions of this hadith before he follows up with Ibn Hajar and Fath-al-Bari: Al-Haafidh Ibn Hajar said in Fath al-Baaree (Fath al-Baaree, no. 6130, Kitaab: al-Adab, Baab: al-Inbisaat ilaa an-Naas): This Hadith has been used as a proof for the permissibility of possessing (suwar - of) dolls and toys for the purpose of the little girls playing with them. This has been especially exempted from the general prohibition of possession of images (suwar). Little Girls Playing With Dolls The Islamic Ruling Concerning Tasweer, Abu Muhammad Abdur-Ra'uf Shakir Two But if these images and dolls are toys for children, the Sunnah indicates that they are permissible. In al-Saheehayn it is narrated that ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: “I used to play with dolls in the presence of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and I had female friends who would play with me…” al-Bukhaari, 6130; Muslim, 2440. Ibn Hajar said: This hadeeth indicates that it is permissible to have images of girls (i.e., dolls) and toys for girls to play with. This is an exception from the general meaning of the prohibition on having images. This was stated by ‘Iyaad and was narrated from the majority. They permitted the sale of dolls to girls so as to teach them from a young age how to take care of their homes and children. Ibn Hibbaan stated that it is permissible for young girls to play with toys… He is asking about dolls and three-dimensional toys, and whether that affects his fast Islam Q&A, Fatwa No. 49844 Three Aaishah said, “I used to play with dolls in the presence of the Prophet (pbuh), and my girlfriends used to play along with me. Whenever, Allaah's Messenger (pbuh) would enter, they would hide from him. So he called them to play with me.”In the classical commentary on Saheeh al-Bukhaare entitled Fat-h al-Baaree, Ibn Hajar al-'Asqalaanee wrote the following: “This hadeeth is used as evidence for the permissibility of making dolls and toys with human and animal forms for the purpose of girls playing with them. This category has been specifically excluded from the general prohibition against making images. ‘Iyaad stated this to be categorically so and related that it was the position of the majority of scholars. He further related that they permitted the selling of toys for girls in order to train them from their youth in their household affairs and in dealing with their children…” Fatwa on the use of Images for children (p.1) BilalPhilips.com Note the great similarity in the commentary of Ibn Hajar in Fateh al-Bari to all four versions of the hadith. The words are different due to the different translators but the essential message is unchanged – only little girls (i.e. before puberty) are permitted to play with dolls. [edit] Does the phrase 'little girls' mean pre-pubescent? How do we know that these "little girls" are pre-pubescent? This is due to Islamic customs and laws specifically stating so. For example: Girls reach puberty and adulthood when they experience the above three signs. However, they have a fourth sign, that is, menstruation (hayd). Whenever a girl experiences it, she is a woman even if she is 12 years old. For Whom is Fasting Necessary? USC - Muslim Students Association, Compendium of Muslim Texts Islam And the Age of Puberty Islam clearly teaches that adulthood starts when a person have attained puberty. The Young Marriage of `Âishah® Madrassah In'aamiyya These Islamic websites provide us with the evidence, that in Islam when a girl reaches puberty, she ceases to be considered a girl and becomes a woman. Therefore, little girls must be pre-pubescent according to Islamic customs and laws. We also have commentaries by hadith scholars that reinforce this point: Al-Qaadee 'Iyaad has stated this position with definiteness, and transmitted it as the position of the Majority (Jumhoor) of the Scholars; and that they declared permissible the selling of toys/dolls (al-lu'ab) for little girls, to train them from childhood for the household responsibilities and child-rearing. Al-Khattaabee said: … it is understood that playing with dolls (al-banaat) is not like the amusement from other images (suwar) concerning which the threat (wa'eed) of punishment is mentioned. The only reason why permission in this was given to Aisha (RA) is because she had not, at that time, reached the age of puberty. Little Girls Playing With Dolls The Islamic Ruling Concerning Tasweer, Abu Muhammad Abdur-Ra'uf Shakir … Abu 'Ubaid, who said: We don't see there being any reason for that (permission to play with her dolls), except due to the fact that these toys are a source of amusement (lahw) for the children. So, if they were owned by adults, it would definitely have been detestable (makhrooh). Possession of Dolls By Little Girls The Islamic Ruling Concerning Tasweer, Abu Muhammad Abdur-Ra'uf Shakir [edit] Aisha was pre-pubescent when Muhammad consummated the marriage “My mother came to me while I was being swung on a swing between two branches and got me down. My nurse took over and wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was brought in while Muhammad was sitting on a bed in our house. My mother made me sit on his lap. The other men and women got up and left. The Prophet consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me.” Al-Tabari, Vol. 9, p. 131 This hadith suggests that Muhammad had sex with Aisha in her house on her wedding day. However, was this event really on her wedding day? This is proven by the Sahih Bukhari hadith below. Note the similarity in accounts, although the Bukhari 5:58:234 hadith is more expansive on the fact that the events took place on Aisha’s wedding day: Narrated Aisha: "The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Alright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. Sahih Bukhari 5:58:234 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old. Sahih Muslim 8:3311 Also note that Sahih Muslim says Aisha still had her dolls with her when she was taken to Muhammad’s house as a bride. Applying Ibn Hajar’s doll-playing exegesis from Part 1, it becomes clear that Aisha was pre-pubescent when she became a bride. Therefore, it is abundantly clear from the hadiths, that Aisha was pre-pubescent when Muhammad first had sex with her on her wedding day. [edit] Consummating the marriage means sexual intercourse Sunan Abu Dawud is the third most respected collection of ahadith, and the relevant narration used here is considered Sahih by some of the most authoritative ahadith scholars, including Shaykh Abdul Azeez al-Qaari' (Imam of Masjid Qubaa and professor of tafseer Quranic recitation at the Islamic University of Medina). "Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old." Abu-Dawud 2:2116 Here we see that Muhammad had sex with Aisha when she was 9 lunar years old. Is this age confirmed by any other (Sahih) ahadith? Yes it is: Narrated Hisham's father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed (sic – consummated) that marriage when she was nine years old. Sahih Bukhari 5:58:236 Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death). Sahih Bukhari 7:62:64 Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)' Sahih Bukhari 7:62:65 Narrated 'Ursa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death). Sahih Bukhari 7:62:88 Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter. Abu Dawud 41:4915 Apologists will insist that the term "consummate the marriage" means the completion of the 'nikah' ceremony, not sex. This is in spite of the Abu-Dawud hadith Vol. 2, No. 2116 translation that explicitly states 'intercourse' . Be that as it may, does 'consummate the marriage' mean sex? Here is proof that it does. In Sahih Bukhari, vol. 7, No. 64, the root word used is "dakhala". From the Hans-Wehr Arabic-English Dictionary: to enter, to pierce, to penetrate, to consummate the marriage, cohabit, sleep with a woman. Hans-Wehr Arabic-English Dictionary, P. 273 But how do we know that at the age of nine Aisha was still pre-pubescent? Here is the evidence from Sunan Abu-Dawud, Vol. 3, No. 4914 (This hadith is also repeated in Sunan Nasa’i): On the authority of Aisha (RA), that she said: The Messenger of Allah (SAW) returned from the battle of Tabook or Khaibar (the narrator of the hadith was in doubt about whether he was told "Tabook or Khaibar."). There was a curtain covering her 'sahwah' (chamber or small room in front of the house). The wind blew a side of the curtain and uncovered Aisha's dolls. He (SAW) said: What is this, O Aisha? She said: My dolls. The he (SAW) saw amongst them a horse with two wings from scraps of cloth. He (SAW) said: What is this which I see amongst them (amongst the dolls)? She said: A horse. He asked: What is upon it? She said: Two wings. He (SAW) asked (in astonishment): A horse with two wings? She said: Didn't you hear that Sulaiman (Solomon - AS) had horses with wings? She said: Then he (SAW) laughed until I saw his molar teeth.[1] Abu Daawood, An-Nasaa'iee as-Sunan al-Kubraa, Albani (ra) says the chain of narrators of an-Nasaa'ee is authentic (Saheeh). As for the chain of narrators of Abu Daawood, Albani (ra) has also declared it to be authentic (saheeh) Shaykh Muhammad Shams al-Haqq al-'Adheem Aabaadee, in his Sharh (explanation) of Sunan Abu-Dawud, says: This hadith and the one before it (Hadith #20) is used as an evidence of permissibility of possession of dolls and toys for the purpose of little girls playing with them. This (permission) is a special exception from the general prohibition of possession of images (suwar). This position has been stated with certainty by al-Qaadee 'Iyaad, and he has quoted it as the opinion of the Jumhoor (Majority of Scholars). He also said that the Jumhoor has allowed the sale of toys (dolls) for little girls, in order to train and prepare them from childhood for their household affairs and the raising of their children.According to the generally accepted tradition, Aisha was born about eight years before Hijrah. The battle of Khaibar took place in Muharram-Safar 7 AH. The siege of Tabuk took place in Rajab 9 AH. Therefore, to be generous, I will accept the Khaibar explanation and not the later, Tabuk explanation. It is generally accepted that Aisha was betrothed to Muhammad at the age of 6 in the year 3 BH. This is confirmed by reports that the marriage was consummated in Shawwal, which came seven months after the Prophet's hijra from Makkah to al-Medinah. Shaykh Muhammad Shams al-Haqq al-'Adheem Aabaadee So the Abu-Dawud hadith says that Aisha was still playing with dolls as late as 7 AH. That is 6 or 7 years after her marriage. Using the doll-playing exegesis of Ibn Hajar, Abu Ubaid, al-Qaadee 'Iyaad, and Shaykh Muhammad Shams al-Haqq, Aisha did not reach puberty until at least 6 to 7 years after her marriage when she would have been about 15 or 16 years old, but lets say 14 years old to be generous. [edit] Abu-Dawud Book 41, Number 4914Note that some apologists will try to say that this hadith is not sahih. They will use the following translation of the same hadith and highlight the phrase "the narrator is doubtful": Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: When the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) arrived after the expedition to Tabuk or Khaybar (the narrator is doubtful), the draught raised an end of a curtain which was hung in front of her store-room, revealing some dolls which belonged to her. He asked: What is this? She replied: My dolls. Among them he saw a horse with wings made of rags, and asked: What is this I see among them? She replied: A horse. He asked: What is this that it has on it? She replied: Two wings. He asked: A horse with two wings? She replied: Have you not heard that Solomon had horses with wings? She said: Thereupon the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) laughed so heartily that I could see his molar teeth. Abu Dawud 41:4914 The evidence that this hadith is indeed sahih, and that the phrase "the narrator is doubtful" does not mean to imply that the hadith itself is doubtful, but the fact that the narrator was doubtful in regards to whether or not he was told it was Khaybar or Tabuk, is as follows: [edit] Proof One Various versions of the hadith include confirmation that it is sahih/authenticated/authentic, including one that refers to Sahih Abu-Dawud (a collection of Abu-Dawud hadiths that are deemed sahih): On the authority of Aisha (RA), that she said: The Messenger of Allah (SAW) returned from the battle of Tabook or Khaibar (the narrator of the hadith was in doubt about whether he was told "Tabook or Khaibar."). There was a curtain covering her 'sahwah' (chamber or small room in front of the house). The wind blew a side of the curtain and uncovered Aisha's dolls. He (SAW) said: What is this, O Aisha? She said: My dolls. The he (SAW) saw amongst them a horse with two wings from scraps of cloth. He (SAW) said: What is this which I see amongst them (amongst the dolls)? She said: A horse. He asked: What is upon it? She said: Two wings. He (SAW) asked (in astonishment): A horse with two wings? She said: Didn't you hear that Sulaiman (Solomon - AS) had horses with wings? She said: Then he (SAW) laughed until I saw his molar teeth.[1] Abu Daawood, An-Nasaa'iee as-Sunan al-Kubraa, Albani (ra) says the chain of narrators of an-Nasaa'ee is authentic (Saheeh). As for the chain of narrators of Abu Daawood, Albani (ra) has also declared it to be authentic (saheeh) Aboo Daawood and an-Nasaa’ee collected this hadeeth in another chain from Aaishah in which she said, “When Allaah’s Messenger (pbuh) arrived after the expedition to Tabuk or Khaybar, the wind raised an end of a curtain which hung in front of my closet, revealing some dolls which belonged to me. He asked me, ‘What is this?’ I replied: My dolls. He saw among them a horse made of wrapped cloth with wings, and asked, ‘What is this I am seeing among them?’ I replied: A horse. He asked, ‘A horse with wings?’ I replied: Have you not heard that Solomon had horses with wings? Allaah's Messenger (pbuh) laughed so heartily that I could see his molar teeth.” Sunan Abu Dawud, vol. 3, p. 1373, no.4914 and authenticated in Saheeh Sunan Abee Daawood, vol. 3, p. 932, no. 4123. This hadith is very clear that the meaning of playthings (lu‘ab) mentioned in the earlier narration does not refer to humans.[2] On the authority of Aa'ishah (radiyallahu anha), who said: 'The Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) returned from the battle of Tabook or it was Khaybar. There was a curtain over my room. The wind blew, lifting the curtain and exposing a part of my room in which, Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) saw some dolls with which Aa'ishah (radhi allahu anhu) used to play. He said: “What is this O Aa'ishah?” She replied 'my daughters (Arabs used to call dolls, daughters). He saw among them a horse with two wings made out of a piece of cloth. He said: “What is this?” She replied: 'A horse' He said: “and what are those on the horses?” She replied: 'Two wings' He said: “A horse with two wings?!” Aa'ishah said: 'The Prophet laughed until I could see his molar teeth.'[3] Authentic - Abu Dawood An Nisa'ee in Al-Ishrah Not only is the chain of narrators authentic according to Albani - but two other Islamic sources say 'authentic' or 'authenticated.' [edit] Proof Two The version taken from the pro-Islamic website, themuslimwoman.com, states that, “the narrator of the hadith was in doubt about whether he was told "Tabook or Khaibar”.[1] That is, not in doubt about the hadith. [edit] Proof Three Alternative translations do not carry the word ‘doubt’: Also on the authority of Aisha who said: “The Prophet (saw) returned from the battle of Tabuk, or it was Khaybar. There was a curtain over her room. The wind blew, lifting the curtain and exposing part of the room in which the Prophet (saw) saw some dolls with which Aisha used to play. He said, “What is this, O Aisha?” She said: “My daughters.” (Arabs used to call dolls for “daughters”) He saw among them a horse with two wings made of pieces of cloth. He said “And what is this in the middle?” She said, “A horse.” He said, “and what are those on the horse?” She said: “Two wings.” He said, ”A horse with two wings?!” Aisha said: “The Prophet (saw) laughed until I could see his molar teeth”[4] Abu Daawood, an-Nasaa’ee On the authority of Aa'ishah (radiyallahu anha), who said: 'The Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) returned from the battle of Tabook or it was Khaybar. There was a curtain over my room. The wind blew, lifting the curtain and exposing a part of my room in which, Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) saw some dolls with which Aa'ishah (radhi allahu anhu) used to play. He said: “What is this O Aa'ishah?” She replied 'my daughters (Arabs used to call dolls, daughters). He saw among them a horse with two wings made out of a piece of cloth. He said: “What is this?” She replied: 'A horse' He said: “and what are those on the horses?” She replied: 'Two wings' He said: “A horse with two wings?!” Aa'ishah said: 'The Prophet laughed until I could see his molar teeth.'[3] Authentic - Abo Dawood An Nisa'ee in Al-Ishrah [edit] Proof Four Authoritative Islamic scholars still use this hadith in their judgment of Islamic laws and customs. Shaykh Abdul Azeez al-Qaari' (Imaam of Masjid Qubaa and professor of tafsir and Quranic recitation at the Islamic University of Madeenah) had this to say about image-making in al-Usrah: “Regarding the hadeeth of Aaishah that she played with dolls in the presence of the Prophet (pbuh), and, in some versions of the hadeeth, that one of the dolls was in the shape of a winged horse, and that when the Prophet (pbuh) asked her about it, she replied, ‘Didn't you hear that [Prophet] Sulayman had a horse with wings?’ to which the Prophet (pbuh) responded by laughing; this hadeeth indicates the permissibility of children’s figurative toys, owning them and using them, whether they are clearly representative or not, and whether skillfully or crudely fashioned. There is no basis in the hadeeth for making a distinction. Those who say that Aaishah's dolls were not distinctly representative have made an arbitrary judgement not based on any evidence. What do they say about a winged horse?”[5] Shaykh Abdul Azeez al-Qaari' How can apologists claim that the Imam of Masjid Qubaa and professor of tafsir and Quranic recitation at the Islamic University of Medina uses a hadith that is not sahih in deciding the permissibility of doll-playing among Saudi Arabian children? For by doing so, even Shaykh Abdul Azeez al-Qaari' of Saudi Arabia seems to accept that this hadith is sahih. If using a weak hadith, a scholar must warn the reader of its weakness: “Generally, in Islamic law, only the authentic (sahih) and good (hasan) hadiths are used in deriving the rules. The weak (da`if) hadiths have no value for the purpose of Shari`ah. However, the scholars of hadith sometimes differ among themselves in the determination of whether some Hadiths are weak or not. The scholars have sometimes used weak hadiths for moral and spiritual (fada'il) matters. It is important that when one uses a weak hadith for any reason, one should explain it to the people that this is weak hadith and that it is being used for this particular reason." What is the Value of a Weak Hadith? Islam Online, Muzammil H. Siddiqi, President of Fiqh Council — North America, March 22, 2006 It is clear from this article that Shaykh Abdul Azeez al-Qaari' (Imaam of Masjid Qubaa and professor of tafseer and Quranic recitation at the Islamic University of Medina) did not say anything about Abu-Dawud 4914 being weak - thus it cannot be considered as such. Also note what the reference says at the end of the article: Sunan Abu Dawud, vol. 3, p. 1373, no.4914 and authenticated in Saheeh Sunan Abee Daawood, vol. 3, p. 932, no. 4123 [edit] Summary In the first section, it was shown that in Islam, doll-playing girls are pre-pubescent according to the doll-playing exegesis of Ibn Hajar and Islamic laws and customs. In the second section it was shown, using Ibn Hajar's doll-playing exegesis that Aisha remained a pre-pubescent child when she was married and had sexual intercourse with Muhammad. In the third section it was shown that Aisha remained pre-pubescent as late as 6 or 7 years after her marriage to Muhammad. [edit] Conclusion Does Muhammad meet all the criteria needed to be classed a Pedophile? Criteria A: Over a period of at least six months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger).Yes, Muhammad had sexual relations with a pre-pubescent child over a prolonged period - likely to have been at least 6 to 7 years. Criteria B: The person has acted on these sexual urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies caused marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.Yes, Muhammad had acted on his sexual urges - as demonstrated by Tabari IX:131 and various other Bukhari ahadith that state that consummation had taken place at the age of nine when it had been established that Aisha had not reached puberty until she was at least 14 years of age. Criteria C: The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.Yes, Muhammad was 54 years old while Aisha was only 9 years old at the time of sexual intercourse. Therefore, even according to the most stringent clinical definition of pedophilia - the DSM-IV-TR - Muhammad would be found guilty as charged.

actually i went to a high school with a large sikh, hindu and muslim population the sikhs were beautiful while the muslim and hindu girls looked like walruses( i mean no offense to any community just stating what i saw) i believe you went to a school with a similar demographic so you should know the truth aswell as for the second part of your post you can repeat that to make yourself feel better but the truth wont change if your trying to equate marrying your sister on paper just so she can get a visa to leave that shithole known as india with people actually physically having sex with there cousins your being immensely dishonest and you know it, as for me if i had come from a community with a tradition of inbreeding as big as yours i would be disgusted not making excuses

Its Ramadan now son. They get extra points for peaceful da'wah during this time. Although lying still plays a devious role in their daily lives.

How you state sufis to be muslims beats me. A majority of sufis themselves consider their ethos distinct from the paradoxical principles of Islam. Abu Said one of the most important figures of the movement held nothing but contempt for Islamic principles and it's psychologically constrained orthodoxy. Others like Sheikh Farid adopted the notion of karma, and re-incarnation. Several where executed or jailed by the various Caliphs who were irked by their universal transcendence. Several sufi mystics signed themselves off as being neither jew nor muslim. Furthermore when various Islamic extremists restricted the practice of music, which in many Islamic circles as per the translation of the Koran is considered 'haram', sufis took the foremost step of defying them. Even today Sufis are constantly discriminated and persecuted in many Islamic circles due to their rejection of Koranic doctrines, the myth of it's infallibility, and the sharia which disrupt universality and the ethics of humanity. "Sufism produced a series of works, which under pretense of orthodoxy and devoutness, in reality substituted for the personal God and the future life of Islam notions that were irreconcilable with either and were supported by an interpretation of the Quran so far-fetched as to be ludicrous and irreverent. The most famous of these are the poem of Ibn al-Farid (1161-1235)... and the treatise of Ibn Arabi (1155-1240)... "Gems of Maxims." Both these works at different times brought their owners into danger, and were the cause of riots (see Ibn Iyas, 'History of Egypt...' where the latter book is described as the work of a worse unbeliever than Jew, Christian, or Idolater). Of the comments on the Quran which this work contains is sufficient to cite that on the story of the Golden Calf; according to Ibn Arabi.... Moses found fault with his brother for not approving of the worship of the calf, since Aaron should have known that nothing but God could ever be worshipped, and therefore the calf was (like everything else) God." -Margoliouth. As was the case with famous scientists, and artisans, sufis were accused of being 'zindiqs' or antagonists of Islam. Whether proven or not proven, under sharia 'zindiqs' were cruelly tortured and executed.

If that's the reason then why doesn't that Pakistani go one better and marry his own sister. That way the wife will treat her sass even better because her sass will also be her mother!

It's funny how the above writing didn't hit me before as I have read this thread couple of times before but all of sudden stumbled upon it tonight and it hit me... It's beautiful can't describe the feeling.. Such is play of divine. Vahiguroo

Hello everyone, Another inquiry and a request for clarification on the following: "Guru Angad longed for Guru Nanak, when he said to Baba Buddha; 'He whom you love, die for him. Accursed is the life without the beloved. The head should be sliced that does now bow before the Master. O Nanak! the body should be burnt that suffers not the agony of separation.' (Sri Rag)". If my interpretation of this is correct, slicing one's head who does not bow before the Master is considered a sin on its own?

isingh1699 - I couldn't have put it better myself. PakistaniPunjabi, I mean no bad will towards you personally, but the Pakistani's living in the UK are a malignant bunch. They have consistently underperfomed in British educational institutions for the past 40 years, achieving academic results similar to their east pakistani (yes, read "Bangladeshi") cousins, if not then similar to afro-caribbeans (who grow up mostly without a a father figure in UK households). That is where the British pakistani sits - at that end of the educational strata. What were you saying about an IQ of 49?! Lol! A very low achieving community indeed. It is no wonder that whereas other students aspire to join apprenticeships and further education, pakistanis look for militant training camps in Pakistan to go & fight British/American soldiers - no loyalty to the country that fed them on govt benefits/handouts. Are you going to say that the British Justice Secretary also has a IQ of 49? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/10065046/Pakistani-community-must-tackle-grooming-gangs-justice-minister-insists.html Pakistani community must tackle grooming gangs, justice minister insists The Pakistani community in Britain must urgently address the problem of gangs systematically grooming and abusing young white girls, justice minister Damian Green has said.Just days after seven Asian men were convicted of carrying out crimes of “medieval” depravity against girls as young as 11, in Oxford, Mr Green said it was time to dismiss any vestiges of political correctness around the issue. The Oxford scandal was the fifth such case since 2010 with gangs of Pakistani men being convicted of similar grooming outrages in Rochdale, Derby, Rotherham and Shropshire. In an interview with The Daily Telegraph, Mr Green, who is the minister for police and criminal justice, said he was setting up a Home Office led group to help tackle the problem of sexual violence against children. But he said it was also up to Pakistani community leaders to make it absolutely clear that such behaviour was “100 per cent unacceptable”. In the Oxford case, six girls were targeted by a gang mainly of Pakistani heritage who showered them with gifts and attention before subjecting them to acts of appalling sexual violence. The exploitation lasted for five years and only ended when the girls became brave enough to report their abusers to police. But there is growing concern that wider issue is being brushed under the carpet because the authorities are fearful of being accused of racism. Mr Green said: “It’s not sadly the first example we have had of organised serious exploitation and abuse involving Pakistani heritage men grooming and abusing white girls “I hope that what happens is that any last vestiges of political correctness that say, ‘there are some cultural issues to address here’ disappear, because this is criminality, pure and simple. “It goes without saying that every world religion condemns the exploitation and abuse of children and just as there are huge challenges to the social care system and the police, there are clearly challenges for community leaders to make it absolutely clear that this is 100 per cent unacceptable in any circumstances.” “I am encouraged that I have heard voices saying that over the last couple of days but I think that has got to be the starting point, that this must not be a cultural issue, this is just criminality and it applies to everyone.” Mr Green said the new Home Office task force would be aimed at helping those vulnerable to sexual exploitation by building in support across the criminal justice system. He explained: “This will mean their voices are heard earlier and listened to more carefully. It will build more support into the system and improve systems for identifying those at risk. “But our prime responsibility is, of course, stopping abuse before it starts. The group will be working to target the organised crime groups that perpetrate the sort of systematic abuse we saw in Oxford.” He said the group would also look at how social media is used by gangs to groom and abuse the vulnerable. Mr Green said while it was important to recognise exploitation and sexual abuse was a problem common to all parts of society denying the issue existed in the Pakistani community for cultural reasons was completely wrong. He said: “It is the case that most cases of child abuse actually involve the white British middle aged men, we have seen terrible examples of Jimmy Savile and others, but it does seem from the evidence that we have seen so far, a particular problem of this organised, systematic year after year grooming and abusing. “There is clearly more than one example of this within the Pakistani origin community so that itself is a specific problem and everyone particularly the community leaders need to recognise that as a problem we need to address.” It is clear from the article above that the British govt recognises that this a a widespread and systematic set up within the Pakistani community and that the govt will no longer pander to the left-wing socialists in the name of political correctness or the risk of losing the 'muslim vote', It's time to call a spade a spade, it's time to be straight-forward. I could go on and accuse you of being a "loser", but I'm not going to. There is only one community that deserves that 'title' and the British govt knows it!

In the case of Christian murderers Jesus didn't give them a full length tutorial in rape or murder. Obviously we all know the man didn't have a virgin birth or resurrection though. In the case of Hindutva murderers, there isn't really any cow or monkey god that says kill all non-hindu's + attack places of worship because half-elephant Ganesh says this or that. In the case of Atheism there is no Atheist Holy Book which instructs atheists to kill innocents. Sadly in the case of these Muslim pedophiles (groomers) you know full well they are following pedophilia in the footsteps of a 54year old Arab who had sex with a 9year old. In that respect these Pakistani's seem to have less of an age gap between them and their non-Muslim victims. Furthermore, they have only followed part of the Sunnah + Hadiths. As you know the Holy Quran is explicit in saying that Muslim men can freely have sex with their slavegirls + who their right hands possess (which translates as grooming victims nowadays). You have to be honest with your conscience Pakistani bro. Remember you are answerable to none other than Allah (swt). When Allah(swt) questions u if it was reasonable to believe in a Nabi that at the age of 54 had sex with 9year old child Aisha ... will you be able to honestly say that u genuinely believed "HE" was the final messenger of Allah(swt) despite clear evidence to the contrary? When Allah(swt) questions u whether it's believable that the Quran is the exact word of Allah(swt) will your conscience answer yes? Is Allah capable of condoning slavemasters? Despite such damning evidence proving that the Quran was clearly not written by Allah(swt) as presented by Tandoori Singh, are u still adamant that Allah(swt) is the author? Sincerely, if u don't see the link between these groomers and Islam+Muhammad then we all pray that Allah(swt) guides u the right way because it's sad to see this type of brainwashing done on a fundamentally decent fellow Punjabi. It's truly sad u don't see it.

All we know is that 5 of them are pakistani, 2 are african, and the common denominator that unites them is Islam. For muslims or pakistani's to try to wash their hands off this and claim that "the men are mirpuri", as if Mirpur is somewhere in Argentina or something, is worrying. Whenever an issue occurs involving pakistani muslims, be it terrorism, paedophilia, grooming, the response is always the same: "don't blame Islam, don't blame pakistani's, don't blame pakistani culture" and instead, so-called community leaders will fall over backwards to blame "western influences on their children". Only last week on a BBC Asian Network debate, a certain Councillor Khan blamed "western culture of drugs/drink and poor social services". Shocking. Especially when one observe that Hindu's, Sikhs, Jews, Afro-Caribbeans etc grow up in with the very same "western culture" and yet they are not engaged in grooming, paedophilia or terrorism. But Pakistani's are. The Metropolitan Police Service has already warned that more plots will be unearthed and that this is the tip of the ice-berg. But one thing remains an absolute cast-iron fact. Be it paedophila, terrorism, grooming, drugs (Pakistani's in Norway), all roads lead to either Pakistan or men of pakistani-origin living abroad - Mirpur or otherwise. PS: Don't even get me started on medical disabilities resulting from genetic malformations from first cousin marriages and benefit fraud (handouts from the UK govt for non-British readers). It's about time British men of Pakistani origin and Pakistani's themselves took ownership of the issue rather then "blaming the west" or "blaming social services".

NOW COME ON GUYS LETS BE FAIR! 2 of those 7 pictured are AFRICAN Muslims . All Muslims are equally capable of reading the Koran (of which there is only one and according to itself, it is perfect and clear) or copying Mohammad, and seeing that rape and slavery of the Kaffir and going after children is well... QUITE JUSTIFIED. This is particularly clear if you see the situation in Europe where Muslims originating from ALL different Muslim countries are causing trouble. In Australia it's Lebanese that are most well known to have been involved in these kinda rape cases. Sura 4:3: You can have 4 wives and unlimited concubines/slaves ‘that your right hand possess’. And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan-girls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (the captives and the slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice. Sura 4:24: Forbidden from sex with a married Muslim women, but you can have sex with female captives and slaves. Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those (captives and slaves) whom your right hands possess. Thus has Allah ordained for you. All others are lawful, provided you seek (them in marriage) with Mahr (bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage) from your property, desiring chastity, not committing illegal sexual intercourse, so with those of whom you have enjoyed sexual relations, give them their Mahr as prescribed; but if after a Mahr is prescribed, you agree mutually (to give more), there is no sin on you. Surely, Allah is Ever All-Knowing, All-Wise. Sura 3:110: Says that Muslims are apparently better than anyone else. You [true believers in Islamic Monotheism, and real followers of Prophet Muhammad SAW and his Sunnah (legal ways, etc.)] are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind; you enjoin Al-Ma'ruf (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam has ordained) and forbid Al-Munkar (polytheism, disbelief and all that Islam has forbidden), and you believe in Allah. And had the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) believed, it would have been better for them; among them are some who have faith, but most of them are Al-Fasiqun (disobedient to Allah - and rebellious against Allah's Command). Sura 2:90: Allah REALLY hates disbelievers How bad is that for which they have sold their ownselves, that they should disbelieve in that which Allah has revealed (the Quran), grudging that Allah should reveal of His Grace unto whom He will of His slaves. So they have drawn on themselves wrath upon wrath. And for the disbelievers, there is disgracing torment. Sura 2:282: A woman is worth half that of a man. O you who have believed, when you contract a debt for a specified term, write it down. And let a scribe write [it] between you in justice. Let no scribe refuse to write as Allah has taught him. So let him write and let the one who has the obligation dictate. And let him fear Allah , his Lord, and not leave anything out of it. But if the one who has the obligation is of limited understanding or weak or unable to dictate himself, then let his guardian dictate in justice. And bring to witness two witnesses from among your men. And if there are not two men [available], then a man and two women from those whom you accept as witnesses - so that if one of the women errs, then the other can remind her. And let not the witnesses refuse when they are called upon. And do not be [too] weary to write it, whether it is small or large, for its [specified] term. That is more just in the sight of Allah and stronger as evidence and more likely to prevent doubt between you, except when it is an immediate transaction which you conduct among yourselves. For [then] there is no blame upon you if you do not write it. And take witnesses when you conclude a contract. Sura 4:16: Those who committed adultery with your women can be punished, but if they repent they should be let off with no consequences. And the two persons (man and woman) among you who commit illegal sexual intercourse, punish them both. And if they repent (promise Allah that they will never repeat, i.e. commit illegal sexual intercourse and other similar sins) and do righteous good deeds, leave them alone. Surely, Allah is Ever the One Who accepts repentance, (and He is) Most Merciful. There are many relevant sura's, especially those denigrating women. This will do for now. Mohammed of course married Aisha when she was 6 years old and had PENETRATIVE (as in we don't fully know what came before) sexual intercourse with her when she was 9. Anyway, it just so happens that most of the Muslims in England are Pakistani in origin, some of the men who have been arrested for grooming were even born there. That said Pakistan seems to be one of those countries that seems to take Islam to a whole other level, like they ALWAYS have something to prove... I don't know how these poor girls can ever get over what horrors have been inflicted on them, but I wish them all the best. Hopefully they'll never have to see evil as ugly as this (I mean that literally too) ever again. Also it's funny... I'm not seeing Sikhs involved in these case...

I agree, Jazzy has done more good than harm. Like you say the music industry is full of this kind of sleaze and it becomes all about selling sometimes. I was involved quite a bit in the music industry and I am aware of how corrupt some of them are. There are many artists that won't go on stage or perform unless they have downed half a bottle of liquor or had some dodha and Jazzy is NOT one of them !!! He is probably the only musician who makes it aware that he is aware of issues in sikhi and Punjab.

Nope, Jazzy B is pretty normal actually. Aside from the fact he's a famous singer. He's a moderate Punjabi Sikh and he's fiercely proud of his roots. He's also a musician and selling records is his job. Like it or not sex appeal sells. Life is full of contradictions. I know you REALLY want to say he's 'not a true Sikh', but Jazzy B never claimed to be super religious (although he has done devotional music...). When it comes to the kind of sleaze the music industry IS CAPABLE of then seriously Jazzy B... REALLY isn't that bad . At least he's not a typical 'Gangsta Rapper'... And yes I have seen 'This Party Gettin Hot'... It's hilariously crappy. Fact of the matter is Jazzy B is a legend in the music industry (considered the king of Bhangra). Instead of thinking about how much of regular Mona Sikh he is, you SHOULD be thinking... How much GOOD is this guy doing, is he helping Sikhism become more well known, successful and acclaimed? The answer is YES, so we should support him instead of trying to alienate him. The same goes for any Sikh in showbiz, judge them for the good they can do AS WELL AS calling them out for the bad. The fact that the first and pretty much only South Asian singer to break into America with English music is a Punjabi Sikh called Kamaljit Singh Jhooti (Jay Sean) and wears a kara. You CANNOT DENY that there are Sikhs (especially girls since all he seems to do is love songs ) that feel good about that. Hard Kaur on the other hand... She's just another talentless rapper and she's been around forever. She seems to try and get attention by being controversial and sleazy... and still nobody really cares. As far as I can tell she's not doing much good for Sikhs or anyone. Also the fact that she has KAUR in her stagename is freaking ridiculous, you can't even separate her from her Sikh roots and see her as JUST A PERSON WHO HAPPENS TO BE A RAPPER...

Gurpreet spews his bukwas on The Straight newspaper and he is a presenter on India Radio. He claims to be against violence and extremism, yet he works for the guy who shot someone in a Gurdwara car park a few years ago! He is what the blacks would class as a house n*gger if he was from their community. His most famous article was this-; He sees nothing wrong with atheist communists trying to take over a Gurdwara! http://www.straight.com/news/gurpreet-singh-senior-leftist-bibi-veeran-calls-unity-against-sikh-fundamentalists

28 years and still going the Sikhs are trying to get justice of the 1984 genocide in Dehli peacefully. If this does not show the spiritual calm side of the Sikhs then nothing will to the fanatical critics in this world. Jackals are present in many different garbs. Extremist are never happy with anything.

Speak for yourself lol. The reason for Taksal and Santhya and learning Gurmukhi is so people can read Gurbani and do it on their own. I may be blunt, but this kind of mentality is nothing short of laziness and spoon feeding. There's a reason Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale didn't do his katha in writing because he knew people like you would start worshipping Sant Ji' katha and not katha of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. He knew Gurbani in the future may have more hidden gems revealed and he didn't want his katha to be final say because he knew it wasn't. A Sant/Brahmgian doesn't replace a relationship a Sikh has with Sri Guru Granth Sahib and the effort made by a Sikh to understand Gurbani. Sometimes we don't understand context we can listen to Gurbani or read something by scholars/mahapursh to clarify.

What a nice hat 'maharaj' has hoe sikh sir ttopee dhharai || saath janam kushattee hue marai || He who as a Sikh places a hat on their head; will be reborn seven times as a leper. Thankhaanama Bhai Nand Laal Jee Banta Singh veerji, free yourself of these fakes who are taking you for a ride... look to Pooran Satguru Guru Granth Sahib Ji alone! Guru Sahib is all you need!

Lolll, the truth isn't ninda. Did you even listen to Maskeen Jee's amazing Katha posted above? At least have some shame or humility.... Publicity will be the neeldharis downfall if they don't change their ways. Truth always comes out and prevails.

"Satguru" Ram Singh will be here soon! He's predicted to return this year! :yay:

I have two copies of sri bir mrigesh.. i was given these copies by baba jagjit singh ji harkhowale.. normally i dont have problem with punjabi, hindi, urdu written in gurmukhi.. i have managed to read hardest literature- ishvar amalok lal (personal dairy of sant isher singh ji rara sahib) which is quite poetic.. but sri bir mirgesh for me its really hard to understand because of the language used..if this could be translated in english that will be true art work.. there are few nirmale in the panth who could do such translations.. there is a white sikh convert who is nirmala in UK have potential of doing that. He already released bhavsraamrit in english which can be purchased from dtf book store in bham, its one of oldest and best nirmala commentary on deep subjects in sikhi. Akaal Purkh di Faij did u find it hard to read? do you modified version of sri bir mirgesh?