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Where do you live? You may try going to a Gurdwara Sahib in your local vicinity and tell your ordeal to some devout Sikhs over there. If they are legit and genuine, your culprit better have a good health insurance. We do NOT tolerate ANY dishonor towards ANY sister, irrespective of religion/caste/nationality. His dad asked him to have fun? Make sure the whole damn family is shamed! Bloody scum of the earth!

No then you will be no different than any other religion. Just let them find truth their own way through whatever religion. The only way you can encourage them is by your example and rehit. If they like your character then they will radiate towards your example. Let us become Gursikhs first, otherwise how can a beggar give advice to another beggar on how to become a millionaire?

no where in sikhism does it say do not convert other people to the faith. And nor does it say in sikh scriptures that all faiths are equal this is a myth made by anti-sikh people that do not want to share the jewel of sikhism and who want sikhism to be some kind of small group cult which it isnt. In sikh scriptures in Sri guru granth sahib ji it states that various holy books of major world religions are true that is they all have truth to them doesnt mean they are all correct and only hold the truth as most of them contradict each other. Sikhi is the truth and is the true religion because it goes direct to the source of creation waheguru. It says dont worry about all the rituals that hindus, christians,jews,muslims,etc tell you to do that is all temporal that does not please God. Only thing that waheguru wants from you is remember him connect with him and this will naturally make you a Sikh that wants to do other more good deeds out of love for waheguru.

I don't think anyone's dad said to go have some fun with women son..... I reckon that guy just said that to get closer to the girl so that he could get in between the sheets. Guys make up so much bull and exaggerations just to get a hit for a date or to get in between the sheets !! To say things like 'my dad is happy with me...blah blah...' is just to give some false confidence to the other party in this mission. Guruji gave us the tales and stories in charitropakhyan that are to warn and teach us about the wiles of women, BUT we Men can be just as bad in tricking and deceiving the opposite sex- in other words we should understand the logic behind the phrase 'men can be bit**es too!!'

WRONG. Guru Tegh Bahadur sacrificed himself for peoples RIGHT TO WORSHIP WHATEVER THEY WANTED FREELY. He didn't die just for the sake of Hinduism. Sikhs are not meant to DEFEND anyones sensibilities and feelings, only our own lofty ideals. We believe in Free Speech, Freedom of Religion, equal rights, and defending the innocent from actual harm. Where does it say we aren't allowed to criticize other faiths? Where does it say we should stop people calling out Islam for what it really is? All that matters is we tell the TRUTH, however ugly it may be. In fact our Guru's weren't afraid to criticize and laugh at the illogical nature of other faiths AT ALL! Here are some facts... Islam: The Guru's referred to Halal as 'Kutha' meat. The meat of a dog, because it was considered barbaric. Muslims are mandated to eat Halal meat in the Koran, what does that say for how much our Guru's respect the tenets in the Koran? Guru Nanak slept with his feet towards the Kabba at Mecca to mock how Muslims pray to it. How much do you think he respected Islam? The Sikh Empire banned the 'Azaan' wherever it ruled. The Azaan is the call to prayer which basically blasts out the Shahada (the declaration of faith) over a wide radius, annoying the crap out of anyone who isn't Muslim. The Guru's may have been friends with individual Muslims, and they may even have liked various bits of poetry that fitted their ideals, but that does NOT mean they liked Islam. Hinduism: Cutting off a Durga Idols nose: "During expedition, Guru Gobind Singh reached Kiratpur, which was in the state of Raja Tara Chand in temple of Naina Devi (goddess) where a Sikh Bhairo cut the nose of the Idol of Durga. After complaint of hill kings to Guru Gobind Singh, Singh enquired from the Sikh in front of the kings to which he replied to ask from the goddess who has cut her nose. On this the kings replied that goddess cannot speak. Bhairo laughed and replied, “if the goddess (idol) cannot speak and cannot protect the body then what good you expect from her?” Then the kings were quiet and anger still persists." Not to mention... The Guru's told us to reject all of the many falsehoods that these two religions promoted whether it be fasting, pilgrimages, idol worship, inequality and the caste system, the veiling and mistreatment of woman or just dumb old superstitions. The Guru's thought all these things were either pointless, wrong or downright stupid. Thus, how much respect do you think they had for the principles of these religions? Not much I assure you. http://www.sikhs.org/guru1.htm Guru Nanak himself was quite sarcastic and never afraid to make fun of the ineptitude of others. "When Guru Nanak stopped at Hardwar a pilgrimage center on the Ganges river he found a large gathering of devotees. They were taking ritual baths in the holy river and offering water to the sun. When the Guru asked "Why do you throw water like that?" The pilgrims replied that they were offering it to their ancestors. Guru Nanak upon hearing this started throwing water in the opposite direction towards the west. When the pilgrims asked him what he was doing?. Guru Nanak replied "I am sending water to my farm which is dry". They asked, "How will water reach you crops so far away?". Guru Nanak replied, "If your water can reach your ancestors in the region of the sun, why can't mine reach my fields a short distance away?" The pilgrims realized their folly and fell at the Gurus feet." ---- There is no evidence that Guru Hargobind built a Mosque, this is merely speculation. ---- You LOVE Islam? Hahahaha! Well sorry to break it to you but Islam HATES you. Whether your Muslim friends are true friends or not I can't say, but I'd be wary of Taqiyya and Kitman if I were you, Muslims are ALLOWED to lie to get what they want. Sikhs are not. Have you read the Koran? I have. You REALLY should too. Sura 9:29: Fight those who do not believe in Allah. Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. Sura 3:28: Do not take unbelievers as friends, unless it’s to find protection. Hide your faith if needed. Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoso doeth that hath no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them, taking (as it were) security. Allah biddeth you beware (only) of Himself. Unto Allah is the journeying. ---- The EDL are NOT attacking any Muslims, and NOT smashing up any shops or Mosques. There is NO proof of any of this taking place. They continue to peacefully protest, even when they constantly get bottles thrown at them by the Socialist 'United Against Fascism' group. Tommy Robinson has given normal everyday people a platform to voice their anger, that anger could so EASILY have erupted into violence as it did in the Bradford Riots. You want to talking about smashing up shops? A gang of 40 Sikhs were forced to smash up a small restaurant in Leicester to root out a bunch of grooming pedophile Muslims. They did this because the desperate family who was suffering wasn't getting ANY help from the police so they turned to the community for help. The POLICE and the MEDIA have mostly proven that they aren't on OUR side. They are only interested in preserving 'community cohesion' which means licking Muslim bottoms, because they know that SIKHS won't blow themselves up when they get grumpy. The groomers were arrested STRAIGHT after the attack took place, as the Police couldn't pretend it wasn't happening anymore. It took AGES before the names of the groomers (all of them Muslim, with one Hindu mentioned) were finally released. The use of the term 'ASIAN' constantly smears and insults us, and the Sikhs involved in the attack who got us justice were villified as mere misinformed THUGS. The Police first LIED to our faces, and THEN tried to arrest as many Sikhs as they could afterwards. If the Police just DID THEIR FREAKING JOB, none of this would have happened... Who ELSE is worth siding with moreso than the EDL at this point? Aside from UKIP the political party? ----- Pre-emptive strike? No problem . How about Guru Gobind sending Banda Singh to destroy the Mughal government in Punjab? After he believed that he had been betrayed by the Mughals (in this case Bahadur Shah, whom he believed had allied himself to Wazir Khan and was plotting to attack Sikhs) once again. Now, whether the Bahadur Shah WOULD have betrayed the Sikhs or not, Guru Gobind issued the order regardless as he clearly had had quite enough. But if I DIDN'T have that great example, what difference would it make? It is the actions of certain Muslims, their disgusting aggression and intolerance for our way of life (this is happening around the world remember) that is the ONLY reason people feel the way they do and why groups like the EDL exist. The pre-emptive strike has ALREADY happened, and it was Muslims that fired the first shot. As usual. The EDL didn't just appear out of NOWHERE. They exist to combat a REAL problem. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- As for the topic... Didn't we ALREADY have this discussion in the Political forum? Yet there are still pagal's on this forum who spew idiocy and bury their heads in the sand, and want to pretend that Sharia Law isn't encroaching and already messing with our way of life, and how the VAST majority of Muslims want Sharia Law in the UK. WHERE IS THE LOGIC in worrying about the chavvy looking white guy across the street, when there's ALREADY some Pakistani nutjob stabbing you in the back? The PROBLEM RIGHT NOW which is ACTUALLY affecting us is Islam. Let us defeat the MAIN problem first. Sikhs have a problem. White people have a problem. We have the SAME exact problem. I'm friends with plenty of white people, and they are either willfully ignorant or TERRIFIED of how the world is changing around them. White people have all but lost their fighting spirit now and we have nothing to fear from them. What's the phrase? "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" The earliest version of that phrase is Indian by the way . The 'Sikhs Against EDL' and 'Turban Campaign' must be stopped, they are protecting Muslims and AGAINST our interests. On the other hand if Sikhs want to join the EDL and take part in peaceful protest then more power to them, a few brown faces would tip the balance and we'll all get what we want. There is only ONE Koran, that is where Sharia Law stems from, and the Hadith of course. 'Radical' Islam and 'Moderate' Islam follow the SAME EXACT principles. The only difference is HOW GOOD OF A MUSLIM DO YOU WANT TO BE? Muslims are free to believe in whatever they want, so long as it doesn't affect anyone else. The problem is that Islam as it stands will never allow peace and it will never change. So... We must chop the balls off Islam once and for all through strong legislation and education. We MUST ensure that Sharia Law, the TRUE nature of Islam stays in the wretched Middle Eastern desert where it rightfully belongs. For the sake of EVERYONES future (Non-Muslim and Muslim) this must happen.

Suicidal people must have gone through some torment as for muslims don't pray for suiciders ever heard of what happens to suicide bombers? They get loads of praise being told they will have their virgins and become a martyr with loads of prayers for them. I would imagine if a man was raped by another man he would kill himself. Dharam raj conducts justice in his court. Ghosts are apparently those who are still connected to this world materially if he wanted to leave why would he be trapped unless it's a punishment. I think most ghost phenomna is a mental phenomena, I would advise you get advice on bereavement and be a man through it all just chin up and carry on the world don't end with one man dying. http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/bereavement/Pages/bereavement.aspx

Are you sure your humble Muslim friends aren't calling you a filthy kuffar behind your back? Muslims are taught to make friends and treat them nicely in order that they may become Muslims. Search any 'ask the Imam' website and you will realise that friendship with non-Muslims always has an ulterior motive. A lot is made of the Guru Ki Maseet but no evidence is every presented that it was actually built by Guru Hargobind ( not Guru Hargobind Singh!). Even if it were does that mean that Sikhs have a duty to build Mosques considering they will be used as a base to attack them in the future? When the EDL shout who the f**k is Allah, this is because each and every terrorist attack is always a accompanied by the war cry of Allah Hu Akbar. So it isn't so hard to understand why EDL members shout what they do. Maybe if your humble Muslim friends are so concerned about the abuse of their god maybe they should be doing more to keep the more extreme members of their religion in check, Muslims have had it easy in this country, Because the British didn't react after 9/11 and rather than making the Muslim community accountable for the actions of it's fanatics, the government was quick to bankroll Muslim propaganda by financing so-called Islam roadshows, Islam exhibitions etc. No wonder Muslims will always tell you off the record how 9/11 was a godsend for them because of the amount of exposure their religion has got in the media. The media has fallen over itself trying to show how Islam is such as peaceful religion. The only religion to have got something similar in the USA was Sikhism just after the Oak Creek Massacre. But the main difference was that Sikhs had been murdered by a Neo-Nazi and had not murdered thousands of non-Sikhs by crashing planes into the twin towers. Historically our ancestors have always known that Islam, the real Islam and not the airey fairey Islam of the Sufis is a dangerous religion. Read any of the rehatnamas and don't be mislead that the term Turk is just a word for the Mughals and not for normal Muslims. Our ancestors banned the Azan where ever they ruled. Why would they do this, could it be because they Azan claims that the Muslim god is the only God worthy of worship? Is that not a challenge and an insult to non-Muslims? Weren't these Sikhs going against the example of Guru Hargobind? So either that or the so-called Guru Ki Maseet isn't really a Mosque built by the Guru.

Diya, you asked "What does your religion say about something like this? Is there any punishment for someone who does something like this to someone? Is it okay to do something like this to someone who is not Sikh?" Our religion forbids us to have sexual relationships outside of marriage, so if he was doing that, he obviously wasn't following Sikhi. As for the last part, about whether it is okay to do that to someone who is not Sikh, we believe that there is only One God, we are all the children of that God, and labels such as "Sikh" and "Muslim" should not be used to divide us. We are told to see the divine light in all of Creation, we are told to look upon everybody equally, so you being Muslim does not somehow justify his actions. If my blood brother did something like this, I would drag him out onto the street and shame him in front of the community. If I were at Gurdwara and one of the guys there had done something like this, to a Sikh OR non-Sikh girl, then I'd be willing to bet my life that the guy was not going to make it out of there on his own two feet, the other Sikh guys would tear him apart. I have seen this plot far too many times before. Girl and guy meet, fall in love, sleep together, girl wants to get married and guy leaves (for one reason or another). I know that most members on this forum are familiar with Muslim guys doing this kind of thing to Sikh girls, but trust me fellas, it does happen the other way around too, way more than anyone will let on about. I have personally known guys from Sikh families do this to Muslim girls before, and have heard lots of stories about it as well. So it wasn't that surprising for me to read. The thing that does stump me though is the comment of the father. Diya, I have known guys who come from non-practicing Sikh families, guys who are really only Sikh in name, who will sleep with anything that moves, but if their fathers ever found out about it, they would be kicked out of the house, or worse, beaten to a bloody pulp. I have NEVER EVER EVER EVER known of a Punjabi father to tell his son "go have your fun", not once. Not only is it against the religion, it is against the culture too, families may not practice Sikhi, but the immigrant families (I am assuming his parents moved here from Punjab) still hold on to the culture very dearly. I am not saying you are lying, you sound genuine, so I will give you my advice. 1) Forget about him. This is the better option, he doesn't really sound like a great guy to begin with. You said you guys had broken up multiple times before, I don't get the impression that your relationship was very stable to begin with. Imagine being married to him and getting into a large argument and only then discovering what he was really like. It is better this happened now, you say it hurts now, it would have hurt a lot more after marriage. Just get back on your horse, continue living your life and I'm sure you'll find some other guy. You sound like a great girl, it shouldn't be too hard. 2) In case you still want to pursue things with him, there is something you can do. The only reason I am mentioning this option is because I am not 100% convinced that he is telling the truth about what his father said, to have his fun with you and then leave. I think he was lying, for one reason or another he decided he didn't want to marry you, and to avoid you going to his parents, he made it seem like his father was fine with what he was doing. I don't really buy it though. His family knows about you and you say they like you. You are friends with his sisters. Here is what I would do: go to his house one day, sit down and talk with the entire family. Tell them about everything that happened, and also about the comment he claims his father made. Then ask his father, if someone "had their fun" with your daughters and then left, how would you feel? I can almost guarantee you that the sisters will be on your side, the mother may be as well. You were willing to convert to Sikhi for him, so what is the excuse? You need to find out exactly why he doesn't want to marry you. Perhaps he was never serious about it to begin with, he just wanted to have his way with you and then leave, and if that is the case, at least you will be exposing him for what he truly is in front of his family. I still say that option one is better, but I can understand if you go for the second one. I hope everything works out for you sister, and please don't let one <banned word filter activated> paint a negative image of Sikhs or Sikhi in your mind. If you are genuine about learning more about Sikhi, then don't let the fact that you are broken up stop you. Rab Rakha

Because, if you read the article, you'll see that the 'singh' in question was taking a break from getting drunk by smoking a cigarette in the back beer garden when the altercation begun. Good on Mr Terry snr for attacking the useless scum.

Bare with me singh, this may be deep and complex discussion for me as its hard to put it in to words..i have just done ardas to maharaj to grant me kirpa to give me chance discuss deep layers of gurmat (sargun and nirgun)..without his grace..its not possible. First of all Gurmat is not raw form of advait vedant philospoly but rather gurmat have its own advait- non dualism sargun-bhagti and nirgun-gyan blended beautifully ~ ~ Sargun Nirgun intertwined with each other into Ik0ngkar ~~ As i already mentioned in gurmat - bhagti, shabad surat, gyan aspect are blended with each other and gurbani talks about bhagti, shabad surat and gyan aspect. Both bhagti and gyan sadhana are accepted in Gurmat, below gurbani tuk should seal regarding different sadhanas. ਬਿਸਨੁਪਦ ਪੁੰਨੀਆ ਗੀਤ ਸਾਨੀ ਤਰਹ ਦੂਜੀ ॥ ਸਰਗੁਨ ਨਿਰਗੁਨ ਦ੍ਵੈ ਰੂਪ ਹਰੀ ਕੇ, ਉਪਾਸਨ ਭਗਤਨ ਕੋ ਅਤਿ ਨੀਕੋ ॥ The Sargun and Nirgun are two forms of Hari, for devotes these two types of worship are acceptable ਭਗਤਿ ਗਯਾਨੀ ਗਯਾਨੀ ਭਗਤਾ, ਉਪਾਸਕ ਉਭਯ ਭਗਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਜੀ ਕੋ ॥ Bhagat = Sargun da upashak, Gyani = Nirgun da upashak, both of these two types of devotes are Pareshvar's shardaloo's (faithful) (page 423, vol 2 of the sarbloh granth tika) From gyan aspect, nothing is crystal clear truth- sat than there is one nirgun jot nothing else as gurbani says - Zeman zaman kai bhikai samasat ek jot hai na ghat hai n badh hai na ghat badh hot hai || ਜੈਸੇ ਏਕ ਆਗ ਤੇ ਕਨੂਕਾ ਕੋਟਿ ਆਗ ਉਠੈ ਨਿਆਰੇ ਨਿਆਰੇ ਹੁਇ ਕੈ ਫੇਰਿ ਆਗ ਮੈ ਮਿਲਾਹਿਂਗੇ ॥ jaisae eaek aag thae kanookaa kott aag out(h)ae niaarae niaarae hue kai faer aag mai milaahi(n)agae || As from a big fire, millions of sparks of fire arise, they get scattered and again they merge in the same fire. ਜੈਸੇ ਏਕ ਧੂਰਿ ਤੇ ਅਨੇਕ ਧੂਰਿ ਪੂਰਤ ਹੈ ਧੂਰਿ ਕੇ ਕਨੂਕਾ ਫੇਰ ਧੂਰਿ ਹੀ ਸਮਾਹਿਂਗੇ ॥ jaisae eaek dhhoor thae anaek dhhoor poorath hai dhhoor kae kanookaa faer dhhoor hee samaahi(n)agae || As from a heap that consists of myriads of dust particles, those dust bits disperse and arise above and then those dust particles merge in the same dust. ਜੈਸੇ ਏਕ ਨਦ ਤੇ ਤੰਰਗ ਕੋਟਿ ਉਪਜਤ ਹੈਂ ਪਾਨਿ ਕੇ ਤਰੰਗ ਸਬੈ ਪਾਨਿ ਹੀ ਕਹਾਹਿਂਗੇ ॥ jaisae eaek nadh thae tha(n)rag kott oupajath hai(n) paan kae tha(n)rag sabai paan heekehaahi(n)agae || As from a river millions of waves of water are produced and these watery waves merge with water and will still be called as water. qYsy ibs rup qy ABUq BUq pRgt huie qwhI qy aupj sbY qwhI mY smwihNgy ] 17]87] thaisae bis rup thae abhooth bhooth pragatt hue thaahee thae oupaj sabai thaaheemai samaahi(n)agae || 17||87|| As both the animate (sentient beings) and inanimate (non-sentient objects) are manifested from the Universal Lord. They arise from Him and shall merge again in their primal source.(17)(87) And sri guru gobind singh ji himself also gave us updesh to worship one jot which resides in all- non dual Ik0ngkar. You won't find bhramgyan aspect in the above gurbani tuks as its talking from bhagti aspect- describing bhagats of different stages, at different spiritual development stages/khands and talking about its journey leading to one No conflict there- Vahiguroo or real self(paratma ek jot) is master of all beings, the reason it says all other beings-an distinction made because from preceptor- beings themselves have created this "veil of ego" * seperation from Vahiguroo when they were affected by maya..Hence guru maharaj is giving updesh or knocking some sense to all being- that true lord is master of your body, mind, ego and perception of "jiv" atma...the reason i say perception of jiv atma is because of ego, separate perception of jiv was created from there- subtle body took birth, karams took birth, antish karan (man, chit, budh, ahankar) took birth so on and so forth. *Kiv sachyaara hoyeeye, Kiv kudey tutey paal Hukum rajai chalna, Nanak likhya naal Satguru ji is talking about or unfolding itself(nirgun to sargun) into bhagti aspect- process of bhagti spritual development starting from two, ending at one..not describing explictly nature of gyan aspect - realizing it was jot all along. Sargun and Nirgun are one, its never ending flow of folding and unfolding itself based on individual perception or consciouness. From outsider, this process seems dual but in real essence of sikhi its not, its non dual Ik0ngkar. Bhagat was sargun upsakh, initially started from two like most of bhagats so their perception prior to self realization was of two. Bhagat ji is talking about current state and his journey. Let do vichar about bhagat ji in above state..bhagat ji has unfolded themselves in sargun and reciting this maha vak for all. They were in sehaj jevan mukht avastha in its dual consciousness recited the tuk above- one is of gyan perception of one real self/perceiving one and other is of worldly chores, for devotion for bhagti seeing two doing upma of nirankar which is also his self as well to inspire others on the path. But when one goes in gyan samadhi totally there is no coming back everything (bhagats perception, thoughts, desire, devotions) fold itself back into nirgun-One Ikongkar, that gyan samadhi is also turiya and turiya atit avastha..gurbani talks about turiya avastha and talks about how turiya/bhramgyani is above karams (be good or bad). As i said earlier from outsider we may see process of sargun and nirgun unfolding folding itself as two but from bhramgyani aspect- both bhagti(sargun) and gyan(nirgun) is one as they don't see disctincation between sargun and nirgun flow of supreme consciouness. While they are living in a body they are connected with the flow of sargun and nirgun- unfolding itself and have dual consciouness/jevan mukht/sehaj avastha- bhagti and gyan, but after they leave their body/upon leaving their body they loose all everyhing perception , body, mind, consciously being aware as they are folded back in nirgun jot/paratma. Also If bhagat perception is of returning back to real self and origin and thats it- thats what it will happen upon kirpa and they will get kirpa of bhramgyan, if it ones wants to enjoy bhagti or four sargun mukhti listed in the above thread based on subtle dualism/ego (fish in water) even after they leave their body- thats what will happen upon grace until one realize their real self- bhramgyan. There was two- jiv and vahiguroo because intially there was a perception of two and bhagat ji is giving updesh both from bhagti and gyan aspect to further reiterates its only one- tu mohi mohi tu after self realization and then creates also distinction when his consciousness came back to sargun flow while living in the body hence We are like gold and the bracelet, or water and the waves. ||1||. This unfolding and folding play of sargun and nirgun continues until there is body. Sant baba gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale does amazing gurbani katha of 21 asthpadi of sukhmani sahib(essence of sikh theology along with mool mantra) which he explained according to gurbani during bhramgyan parloa (also known as bedah mukht) - bhramgyani upon leaving its body- the perception, individuality, thoughts, desires, subtle ego-shud satogun, leaving reference point dasam dwara or any mental concepts, shabad) destory/fold itself into nirgun/gyan-Ikongkar (Ek Jot). First of all there is no my vedant type philosophy at the end there is only gurmat advait (intertwin sargun and nirgun never ending ik0ngkar flow), rest is all history- vedant, vaishavanism, Protestantism/anglican/evangelical/teja singhism all put together !!!! The problem with you and others who accuse sampardaie of vedant influence is that you guys lack any depth of understanding of gurmat- sargun and nirgun intertwin relationship/theology to begin with, none of your books you read talks about sargun and nirgun theological concept of Gurmat. Again no conflict there, as its meant for and to be looked at from bhagti (sargun) aspect (having perception of two fish in the water). Both bhagti and gyan aspect in gurmat are not in conflict in each other but rather should be seen as play from bhagat (hide and seek) - unfolding itself and folding back and also updesh or indication for others as development stages and in this case both bhagti and gyan aspect in gurmat agrees there is no end or limitation of real self/lord. It starts with perception of drop- soul and supreme soul- ocean ends with supreme soul as one realize its real self. There are plenty of examples in gurbani- Man tu jot saroop hai apna mool paichain, "hirdaie gyan", about non dualism, dualism being disease, recognize your real self, turiya, samadhi, bhramgyan, gyan of atma self, sakhi, sargun, nirgun, also look up also in sri dasam and sarbloh granth. Guru Maharaj is Sargun nirgun avtar of akaal purkh, so they are writing in sargun form-they were in deep transcedental meditation in nirgun. They were one i.e- folded totally in nirgun until they (nirgun) transcendent/immanent itself into sargun (two) again to take part in the play. This does not prove there is two soul but prove rather all along there has been always ek jot(sargun and nirgun unfolding and folding itself/appering/disappearing itself ) in same supreme consciousness (Ik0ngkar) ... thats where gurmat advait comes in see sargun and nirgun as one, even when there is unfolding from nirgun to sargun- bhramgyani are connected to nirgun/ real self as all along its has been one (anek hai pher bhi ek hai - jaap sahib)..!!!!!!!

I know a lot of Sikhs tend to be modern nowadays but I have yet to come across a 'sikh' father who would tell his son to have fun with a girl knowing that it wasn't leading to marriage. I think you had the bad luck to come across a family like that. No matter what the issues have been between Muslims and Sikhs in the UK and knowing how the Muslims target Sikh girls here, no true Sikh would ever condone what this guy has done to you. In Sikhism we are taught that we should see all women whatever their religion, who are not our wives as sisters and mothers. I think you should forget the guy, Move on with your life. Any thought of revenge although you might think will make you feel better but in the end will still tie you to him and being tied to him means that he still has power over you.

A Gursikh is someone who takes Amrit and KEEPS rehat, without this he/she may call themselves a sikh, but not according to Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj, and thats the reality take it or leave it, this guy and his family are the scum of the earth !!!

I reckon if this story is true the guy actually cared for you there are loads of cases where sikh men marry muslim women and family men come and try and kill both couples, perhaps in respect of your welfare he didn't want you to go through the pains of a married life, it was more to do with your family being unhappy and what they would have and could have done rather than conversion. As for sleeping with someone you didn't marry it's your life and your choices. Let's just say had this been the other way the outcomes would have been harsh infact such a tendency has been built up it seems we have loads of muslims posing the opposite story just to take the piss out of other peoples feelings and other peoples beliefs. If the guy had a difference in opinion he did the right thing for himself as well. All I can suggest is rather then becoming the pivot of unstable communal relations which seem to be going downhill fast, go and live your life find someone else. There is nothing in sikhism which allows sex out of marriage or to "play girls". If you were willing to convert then do so for yourself not for someone else, spend sometime learning about sikhism if it's for you then follow it if not atleast respect the freedom of those who do choose to follow it as we can respect your freedom to follow islam. As for the father he sounds kinda sleazy but maybe all he wanted to do was keep good relations with his son when his son was making bad life choices, since he already was sleeping around, he gave him the one piece of advice of not getting you knocked up so things don't get worse. Had he took a harder stand on his son, he could have turned things sour and the last thing an old man wants to do is die alone without his son talking to him. Just as a human being not a sikh, all I got to say to you is there is plenty of fish in the sea, you will meet more people keep your life going so many things could have been worse and in this day and age breakups regardless of religion do take place, similar stories do happen in religion couples aswell. The punishment for adultery or phornication out of marriage is simply excommunication (apostasy) but this guy doesn't sound like he was communicated in the first place.

I'm afraid you have been fooled !! The above family are not Sikhs, but using a Sikh disguise ! Please don't come to the conclusion that Sikhs are like this,... far from it !!

Does people know Allah does come in gurbani few times, as attribute of of akaal purkh ? So to hear edl say- f**k allah what does that show?

Alan watts made this speech in 1960-70s I believe. Just before he died in 1970s.... Listen very carefully to his words he is talking about Sikhism in other words..... he says how Jesus says were all Gods (in other words we all have God inside us) which is written in the first testimony of the jews the bible. Jesus mentioned this when they tried to stone him for blasphemy the same thing arab Muslims in baghdad tried to do to Guru Nanak Dev ji in 15th century until he used his divine power and knowledge which disarmed the muslims and made them devout followers of the Guru. Most of us know that Islam is more fake and destructive for humanity but so is Christianity its wishy washy happy clappy image we have of it nowadays wasnt like it used to be when the priestly classes had a hold over the population of western nations. It is essential a fake religion that wasnt created by jesus but built around making jesus a God when he didnt say he was a God nor did he say he was the only son of God. Christianity was created by people who had an eye on power and used by kings and emperors to propagate to their populations to rule over the classes below them in feudal system.

Example, I was thinking of this dastaar ban in quebec. Why not, just be like, look we don't care if you ban the hijab, since Islam invites terror and destruction, and not even muslims want to see its face, which is why they run here. But, what can you say about sikhi? About a community, that espouses love for all humanity; something not even the charyer of canada does since it separates citizens and non citizens. You should bring more of us over since you can learn. VJKVJF|| Say that too, ^ you know how many will convert? Instead well we know what's actually happening.

I dont think his dad encouraged him. Amongst Sikh parents such behavior is frowned upon no matter what religion the girl belongs to. Now what I think what must have happened is, like most guys he wanted a girl friend in college for sexual purposes/romance but he intended to marry someone else in future. Guys do his type of stuff a lot. I'm sorry for what happened to do. When he wanted to break up with you, he thought it would be easier to face you if he blames it all on his parents. If a guy says he wants to have sex before marriage, never trust him. Guys by nature do not respect girls who make themselves too easy for them before marriage. That is the mentality of a lot of guys out there. Even if you do not marry him, I would encourage you to tell your story to his parents and sisters though. So atleast his family should know what kind of a disgraceful son/brother they have.

Thanks, I wasn't aware because I've only read the main popular ones.

for that there r also some charitar of males also in sri charitropakhyan ji..

N30Singh ji seems to be on the same wavelength as per my understanding ! I don't think there is a person or deity such as Dharamraj, in the sense that we cant say dharamraj gives the order and account and he is dressed in ...? and looks like...? In gurbani Dharamraj is used as a metaphor to explain this quality of Akaal purakh. What is MOST important is to understand what the metaphor of Dharamraj actually does and how we should have an idea of where we would and should be on our own accounts based on good and bad deeds. Scali ji, you also seem to have some good interpretations and I am surprised that you and others actually pay some interest to NDE's because I only learned of what it was and what it's about after having one myself and being in a coma for over a month. Although I don't ever discuss it too much,-The most important thing is the Universal understanding and perception of everyone's feelings. The review thing makes you realize exactly how you may have upset or pleased others and you actually FEEL as well as understand their very inflicted feelings of joy,sadness,upset,anger.....etc.it's a little like reliving tha experience that you yourself caused for others !! You also realize that We and God are ALL ONE ! I also understand that you can see whoever you made your personal guide and who you would have hoped to see at that moment when you are no more. -This can be Jesus or Peter at the gates, Moses, Buddha depending on your faith or any of our Gurujis for us and even departed loved ones like parents or grandparents that you held much more love for. There is a point or entrance that you pass which defines the point of no return or the point where no one has an NDE and comes back, what happens after that NO ONE knows and will ever know.

tu amb laine? LOL, sorry still can't get Jatt and Juliet 2 outta my head :D :D ...mai jee amreeke... satbachan jee

ok

We should help fellow brother/sisters with more ideas, with our constructive feedback to make it better while appreciating their hard work....more sikhi awareness the better on the web..i must say sikhs have already done excellent job for spreading sikhi online and they already have superseded sikhi parchar on online/social media..very very good job to all cyber sikh sevadars for doing their part...i m very grateful to all of you guys..!!

thanks.

Dharam raj(mental concept neither illusory nor real) is animate, inanimate form based on person perception from this life or previous ones in sub conscious....after death or during nde- some get deliverance, some get telepathy, some get acknowledgement, some get feeling, some see dharam raj in animate form- white hair looking big man, some see dharam raja - black looking man with yo yo tupac style - yo nigga got busted yo ...some see it in inanimate based on perceptions..there is acknowledgement of dharam raja for understanding purposes or laying foundation at beginner level but in actual process there is no hard fast and rule in divinity, our perceptions makes its reality and as well illusory ....as divine meta reality is fully connected to our perception and consciousness..sikhi is flow of supreme consciousness where sargun and nirgun folds and unfolds perceive ikongkar only nothing else,..sikhi its self realization path its above from any mental concept/intellectual concept of reality or illusion..when supreme consciousness in one perceptions- unfolds from nirgun to sargun you have everything but when it folds back there is nothing--read play of flow of sargun and nirgun folding/unfolding in sukhmani sahib 21st ashtpadi and be one with the flow...thats why sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale gave ishara in gurbani kaha to read 21st ashtpadi to the person who is dying or at final moment......vahiguroo its amazing!!!!

After Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji became martyr in 1675, Guru Gobind Singh Ji added his father’s Bani and completed the saroop of Guru Granth Sahib. Many more copies were made from it. One copy was given to Pir Buddhu Shah whose descendants still have this copy. The place where this was done is called Damdama Sahib of Anandpur Sahib (the place still exists). It became the hub of literary work. One copy was sent with Bhai Mani Singh when he was given the charge of Harmandar Sahib in 1696. The common misconception that the saroop was finalized in 1708 at Takhat Damdama Sahib was started by Giani Gian Singh and it has no basis. It is ludicrous to state that Khalsa was established first but its Guru under whose guidance it was supposed to live came 9 years later. Prin. Harbhajan Singh has written a book called Gurbani Sampadan Nirnay on this subject and it is on Punjab Digital Library. Dr. Trilochan Singh and Sirdar Kapoor Singh also held the same opinion. It is probable that more copies were written at Takhat Sahib during Guru Sahib’s stay and one such copy was taken along to the south where it was given Gurugaddi and the same saroop was brought back by Baba Banda Singh. Giani Gian Singh states that it was lost during the holocaust while there are other scholars like Prin Harbhajan Singh and Giani Garja Singh who believe that the saroop still exists. Guru Rakha

All the near death experience(NDE) show that right after death you soon realize that there is no time and all your thoughts materalize instantly. Most of the westren NDE have no Dharam Raj. The are allowed a life review where they can fell emotions of the other person they dealt with. Life review is about spiritual growth not a GOD wants to get us back. The only judge of you is you and since there is only one concsiousness you did things to yourself. Soul is part of GOD does not go any suffering.

I'm sorry Singh but either I have misunderstood your post but I as far as I understand simran, to die in the shabad is the ultimate death one can hope for. There are countless pangtis in SGGS that tell one to die in the shabad and use the shabad to subdue/restrain the mind. If you leave the mind to it's own devices you will never be able to restrain it. Those who meditate on the Name, with one-pointed mind and focused consciousness, remain forever stable in the world. jinee naam Dhi-aa-i-aa ik man ik chit say asthir jag rahi-aa. The Gurmukh has conquered his own mind, by applying the Touchstone of the Shabad. gurmukh aapnaa man maari-aa sabad kasvatee laa-ay He fights with his mind, he settles with his mind, and he is at peace with his mind. man hee naal jhagrhaa man hee naal sath man hee manjh samaa-ay. Those who conquer their own mind, by Guru`s Grace, lovingly focus their attention on the Lord. gur parsaadee man jinai har saytee liv laa-ay. Ang 87 Those who die in the Shabad and subdue their own minds, obtain the door of liberation. Sabadh Marai Man Maarai Apunaa Mukathee Kaa Dhar Paavaniaa One who dies in the Word of the Shabad, shall never again have to die. sabad marai fir maran na ho-ay. When the self dies, the individual mind comes to know the Supreme Mind. aap moo-aa man man tay jaani-aa. I have died in the Word of the Shabad, and through the Shabad, I am dead while yet alive, O Siblings of Destiny; through the Shabad, I have been liberated. ham sabad mu-ay sabad maar jeevaalay bhaa-ee sabday hee mukat paa-ee. One who dies in the Shabad and conquers his mind is the true hermit; he understands the Way of Yoga. sabad marai man maaray a-oDhoo jog jugat veechaaree. If someone dies in the Word of the Shabad, his mind become immaculate, O Saints; such worship is accepted and approved. sabad marai man nirmal santahu ayh poojaa thaa-ay paa-ee. Ang 932 Everyone calls himself true and genuine. kharaa kharaa aakhai sabh ko-ay. He alone is true, who obtains the jewel throughout the four ages. kharaa ratan jug chaaray ho-ay. Eating and drinking, one dies, but still does not know. khaat pee-ant moo-ay nahee jaani-aa. He dies in an instant, when he realizes the Word of the Shabad. khin meh moo-ay jaa sabad pachhaani-aa. His consciousness becomes permanently stable, and his mind accepts death. asthir cheet maran man maani-aa. By Guru`s Grace, he realizes the Naam, the Name of the Lord. gur kirpaa tay naam pachhaani-aa. If the mortal dies in the Shabad, then he is liberated; he focuses his consciousness on the Lord`s Feet. man sabad marai taa mukto hovai har charnee chit laa-ee. Ang 1237 First Mehl: mehlaa 1. He is not won over by music, songs or the Vedas. na bheejai raagee naadee bayd. He is not won over by intuitive wisdom, meditation or Yoga. na bheejai surtee gi-aanee jog. He is not won over by feeling sad and depressed forever. na bheejai sogee keetai roj. He is not won over by beauty, wealth and pleasures. na bheejai roopeeN maaleeN rang. He is not won over by wandering naked at sacred shrines. na bheejai tirath bhavi-ai nang. He is not won over by giving donations in charity. na bheejai daateeN keetai punn. He is not won over by living alone in the wilderness. na bheejai baahar baithi-aa sunn. He is not won over by fighting and dying as a warrior in battle. na bheejai bhayrh mareh bhirh soor. He is not won over by becoming the dust of the masses. na bheejai kaytay hoveh Dhoorh. The account is written of the loves of the mind. laykhaa likee-ai man kai bhaa-ay. O Nanak, the Lord is won over only by His Name. naanak bheejai saachai naa-ay.

Those who commit suicide, do they really make their own decision to leave? Or, like everything else, is the act of committing suicide also part of God's will? I've never really understood this.

The Law is clear. No place of worship can be compelled to conduct same sex marriages. It makes no sense to court bad publicity over this issue now because of any hypotheticals that might or might not happen in the future in Strasbourg.

I dont know if this is some outsider shall we say or a wind up , but it is peeing me off, you slept with some guy, have brought shame on your self and your poor parents and now it has gone all wrong you are crying on this forum, well if you play with fire you will get burnt or as we punjabis say if you touch a lions tail, then suffer the consequences. as for what our religion says it says dont bring shame on yourself and your family and do something you may regret in the end. Now tell me/us what islam says about your actions, and how many sikh girls lives have been ruined by muslim guys and what have you or your people done about it !!!! A true Gursikh would not have done this to you, and would never have had a relationship with you in the first place, so i say he/they (family) are not sikhs. I feel sad for your parents. did they not question you when you stayed away at night. Sorry if this is harsh but this low life and his family can not be representatives of Sikhi. Hope it all works out well for you in the end and that you have learnt from this big mistake!

ghost r there.remember suleman ? kahoo jach gandhrabh urag kahoo bedyadhar kahoo payee kinar picach kahoo pret ho (akal ustat sahib ji)

If non Sikhs are expressing concern over the Genocide why are our 'Panthic leaders' so scared to say anything? It really makes me think hard about the motives of most of the leaders of our Jathebhandis. Seems like the Sarna and Badal camps are both united on this issues together with their religious leader allies. Ottawa (July 23, 2013): Canada’s opposition parties, the NDP and Liberals have both expressed concern over the threats to Punjab Police whistleblower sub inspector Surjit Singh. Last week, Canada’s Official Opposition, the NDP issued a statement expressing concerns over Surjit Singh’s safety and the importance of allowing him to tell his story to investigators and the courts. This week, WSO has received correspondence from the Liberal Party of Canada’s Foreign Affairs critic Dominic LeBlanc expressing concern over the issue. WSO had reached out to Canadian MPs to ask that they do all they can to impress upon Indian authorities to provide SI Surjit Singh who faces serious threats after revealing that he had killed 83 Sikh men in fake encounters on the orders of his superior officers in the Punjab Police. He also provided details on brutal torture and other abuses that were perpetrated by the Punjab Police in the late 80s and early 90s. In a letter addressed to WSO President, Prem Singh Vinning, Liberal Foreign Affairs critic Mr. Leblanc wrote: “The Liberal Party of Canada finds Sub Inspector Singh’s allegations very troubling. So as to properly defend this whistleblower, we call upon the Canadian government to encourage India to protect Sub Inspector Surjit Singh. We understand the seriousness of this matter, as witnessed by the disappearance of Human Rights activist Jaswant Singh Khalra who received similar threats. We are hopeful that an appropriate process can be put in place to verify the details of these allegations. Such a process must be open, independent and credible and the investigation into these allegations must have the trust of all people involved and concerned. There needs to be a fair and independent process that will promote meaningful truth and reconciliation. The Liberal Party of Canada will continue to monitor the situation we look forward to working together on these important issues.” WSO will continue to monitor the situation and do all it can to ensure Surjit Singh’s story is properly investigated and the truth continues to come to light. The World Sikh Organization of Canada (WSO) is a non-profit organization with a mandate to promote and protect the interests of Canadian Sikhs as well as to promote and advocate for the protection of human rights for all individuals, irrespective of race, religion, gender, ethnicity, and social and economic status.

There is no concept of heaven and hell in sikhi... Soul either merges back with Waheguru or go back into 84 lakh joons... Most likely your uncle will be reincarnated... Suicide in Sikhi is looked down as Waheguru have us this precious human life to connect to him and committing suicide is like missing big on this golden opportunity... He will have to go through these joons before getting a human birth

daas orignally is not from longowal but daas lives near there in a centre uni called sliet which is named after longwal where daas dad is employed.... BTW carry on debate veerji

When you meditate, just listen to the Naam Gurmantar you are reciting or in case of Paath listen carefully to the Gurbani. If it is kirtan, recite it along with the kirtani to get maximum spiritual benefit. Meditation music without Gurbani is just distracting from the Asli tat.

Remember waheguru dont need you. Every human being, every living being needs waheguru. If you think wanting success in life is as simple as doing ardaas and praying to waheguru to give you what you need in life then your mistaken brother. Waheguru CHOSES himself who to help n a certain way and what is good for them. How many times in gurbani does it say even bad times are gifts from waheguru because they teach us who in charge and when times are good we forget our lord our creator so good and bad times never forget your source of life your source of everything you have in life that others around the world dont have (ie war torn areas of the world, orphans, starving people, badly disabled people, etc) be grateful to your lord for what he has given you.

Gurbani supports bhakti, shabad surat, and gyan(sab gobind hai sabh gobind hai) layers and blends them beautifully. I never said gurmat is only gyan marg but gyan is one final aspect of gurmat. Gurbani beautifully blends all three (bhakti, shabad surat, atam gyan) in one-gurmukh/bhramgyani/khalsa.....!! There are many examples of great bhagat bhramgyani- gursikhs but one such perfect example is baba budda ji whose hirdae was blossomed with bhramgyan(self realization of real self atma/advait bhramgyan avastha) but despite of bhramgyan - mukho his outer kriya was of true bhagat/ dasan das bhagat who served all 6 guru sahib and sangat in his life time....thats one of sign of gursikhi..!!

Samooh Khalsa Panth nu Dhann Dhann Sahib Sri Guru Har Krishan Patshah Jee de Aagaman Divas Diyaan Beant Vadhaiyaan!!!!!

Never said I am waiting for Sant ji that is something you made up. It is obvious you have nothing virtues to add to this discussion so you go on personal attacks to save your Babas. The Morcha was still going with Sant Baba Thakur Singh Ji Khalsa here. Just because no one told your Baba or told you doesn`t mean the Morcha was not going on. You won`t get no more information from me about this matter. What I have said is pretty much general knowledge. However the Sikh sangat is not even asking for a Dharam Yudh Morcha. They just want leaders which I listed to speak out about the Punjab police officer making a confession. Which Jathedar of any group has approached a court or the Punjab government. Many of the Babas followers were saying that leaders like Hari Singh Randhawa, Dhumma, Sant Samaj kept close relationships with Badal so they can influence Badals government to help Sikhs. Now Sikhs are calling on these leaders, but all we get is that it is not in Maharaj`s Hukam for 1984 victims to be helped. It`s in Maharaj`s Hukam for Dhumma to sit at the feet of Badal, but not Hukam to tell Badal here is the proof you were wanting from the Sikhs. The worst enemy of Sikhs are these agents among us acting as Sikhs. Darshan Ragi, Sarna, Dal Khalsa, etc have close ties with congress government. So use these close ties to get justice for 1984 victims and their families. But once again this side also has failed the Sikhs. Both sides yell at the top of their lungs for money, but now they are not even ready to give a political statement in favor of Sikhs.

Just posting this behalf of member from Sikhawareness.com so that sangat can take laha of this amazing website. Loads of hard work is being put on audio books/website from amazing singhs from bc/alberta.

I agree 100%. I'm not against Bhai Sahib, but Sant Sipahi is a very deep title that shouldn't be used so loosely. With that said got to make sure people don't start bashing for no reason b/c of paranoia and cause more vavivaad. I think yournpostbwas balanced and shows both sides.

Oh Singho and Singhnian....who are your friends and who are your enemies ? Who are those which wish to cause you harm and who are those that are innocent bystanders ? Sikhs = learners = scholars = seekers of truth = scholars of everything (sociology, history, geography ....everything) So let us Sikhs (scholars) cast our minds back on recent history .......Well now, lets start with the black African student that was beaten to a bloody pulp by ra ich kid spoit brat Punjabi youth with high connections in the Punjab administration. IUts a well publicised event... He's still in a coma several months later! The Punjabi that racistly sent this innocent balck man into a coma is still driving around with police protection still freely acting like a raggamuffin. Fast forward several months and another story hits the news. ..Another rich kid 'Punjabi' with racist views steps out of his rich car and insults innocent black african students. His rich kid insults have no substance so he revokes to the lowest commmon dedominator....racism. Uncle ji's from Mississauga and Wolverhampton have been going 'home' for so long souting their racism against blacks back home that their audience in Punjab has started to believe it as gospel. Rich kid plays on racism so says the black is a thief. Punjab police come and take the side of the rich kid. The humans (black sfrican students in Punjab) say enough is enough so they beat those disgusting bloody corrupt Punjabi cops to a pulp. So......fast forward a few months......Who's side are you on Singho ? Are you on the side of the Punjab police that shoot us in the back whilst we're reciting naam simran (and the state govt that controls them) or are a seeker of the truth? There are terrible horrible things being done to Sikhs each and every day in the land called India. I'll be damned if I ever ignore thier inhuman actions and believe their racist lies about wonderfull central african students. Shame on you 'Dal Khalsa'. Shame on you. And I say that as the most die hard khalistani you could ever hope to meet. Shame on you. How stupid do you think we are that e'd fall for it ? Yes.....Sikhs are being discriminated against in 'India'. Yes....Sikhs are being killed at an astonishing rate. But...dal khalsa....you do a disservice to all of us by pinning the blame on the 'black man'. Shame on you dal khalsa. Shame on you.

Thanks for the replies Sangat Ji! I should point out that it isn't the fact that her skin is white that is making me have doubts, there are 2 other reasons: 1) I want to raise my kids to be Sikhs, so naturally I will be teaching them Punjabi. My GF does not speak Punjabi, so it would be hard to have a Punjabi-speaking environment at home. I want my future kids to be able to read/write Gurmukhi too, so they can read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji without needing to use English translations. 2) My parents. I do not know how they will react to me bringing home a white girl. I am pretty sure they wouldn't be too happy though. But other than that, I could definitely see myself getting married to her in the future once we are done with Uni. She knows how seriously I take my Sikhi, and that I want to start a Sikh family in the future, so the fact that she has stuck around shows me that she is willing to (if we get married) bring the kids up as Sikhs, she would have no problem with it. @Ek_Sikh: Yeah I've seen keshdari guys go out with Hindu and Muslim girls too. I really don't know what it is, for some reason, the majority of apnea kuddiya don't have much respect for the turban and beard. There isn't much you can do about it though, I think that the kesh acts as a great filter to keep away immature girls who aren't long-term relationship material. This girl asked me out, so right away I knew that she cared about more than just appearances (although tbh, I consider myself to be a pretty good looking guy, not trying to brag lol), and she has proved me right over the past couple of weeks. I think that most keshdari guys who complain about girl problems are the ones that only go for Punjabi girls. The ones that will go for white/hindu/muslim/black/chinese etc... girls too know that there are plenty of chicks out there who will date them for who they are, lots of girls who actually respect a guy who stands up for his Sikhi, and a lot of them ain't Punjabi. @nanosecond: Yes I think she likes me for my values. Like I said, she doesn't go clubbing or get drunk or do drugs or anything of the sort. She is the kind of girl who focuses on her studies, volunteers with charities and organizes food drives. She told me how much of a relief it was for her to meet a guy who actually shared her straight edge lifestyle and drive to do sewa (although she doesn't call it that obviously). I have been told over and over again throughout my life by girls that the most attractive trait in a guy is for him to stand up for what he believes in. Kesh is a symbol that you believe in Sikhi values of selfless service, equality of all mankind, no drugs/alcohol, fighting against injustice etc... a guy that cuts his hair for girls is pathetic. If a guy cuts his hair to win over a girl, I'd bet my life that the girl is going to end up dumping him in the future, because if she can make you give up your Sikhi, she knows she can make you do anything she wants, and she will lose all respect for you. And a girl who does not respect you is a girl who won't stay with you. Real men, pioneers, leaders, do not care what the world throws at them, they stand tall in the face of all adversity and never throw away what they believe in, for that would be the death of their soul. It is for this reason that I have decided that I would rather remain single for the rest of my life than cut my hair to try and get with some immature girl. Thankfully, it doesn't seem like I will have to do that I am sorry about your situation, I hope things work out for you, you sound like a really nice guy and deserve happiness

See this is my point, you stick your leg even in threads that are pertaining to Sikhs and shouldn't bother you. And then when someone says something about Islam you raise the red flag. Why can't you just leave us alone veer, LOL? If you love us that much, you're free to become one of us. Atleast with Sikhs you can be glad they won't chop your head off just in case you choose to go back to Islam

Alright here is the update...i did ask some of the questions- first two..got the answers..makes perfect sense..pretty consistent with rest of sant mandali perception. Gyani ji couldn't go in depth of those two questions and rest of them as nature of meeting place- there were lot of premis wanted to meet and besides gyani ji humbly refused to be recorded during questions and answers as gyani ji said these type of discussion are only meant for serious seekers and meant for personal one on one session based on student desire of learning and state of mind. I did manage..however to do some quick gupt bachan bilas..they were amazing..they know lot of gurbani in kant- sri guru granth sahib ji and sri dasam granth sahib, they were reciting kabits from sri akaal ustat..almost bought tears to my eyes..vahiguroo..will be meeting them again tom or sunday to give them cds and will personally be in touch with them from now onwards !!

Can we get this thread sticky may be? ..just an suggestion...Baki apdi kushi :D