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Waheguru Ji ka khalsa, waheguru Ji ki fateh! I recently came across this website: http://www.islam-sikhism.info/hist/feud/feud01.htm and was quite taken back at what was written, please could I have a balanced response to these claims pyaare sangat ji? Thank you

If i close my eyes.. Honeslty sound like one of my crazy uncles singing :D

You should listen to Taus as well, from what I know, it's a bigger version of dilruba.

WJKK WJKF I recently started to switch to cold showers because of the health benefits. But are there any negative effects in the winter besides the small chance of catching a cold? WJKK WJKF

Are there CDs that are available for the complete katha of Sooraj Parkash granth? Please share any information on this. Thank You

The byword here is 'claim.' The byword here is 'claim.' Ok what the hell happened there? You know he keeps an eye on this forum Nihung Ji. Better get shastars, bastars and your dang ready. :excited: :pissed: :poke: :huh2:

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਿਹ Dear Sadh Sangat ji as we do our Anual Kirtan Smagam same we are doing this year too. Sangat from all over Europe will come to take part in this smagam. We will also try to hold an Amritsanchar again. This time the Smagam is on Fr.31.05 - Sun 02.06.13 We request the Sadhsangat ji to join this Smagam and to take part of it. More information same as Poster etc. I will post soon as possible. Kirtani: Venue: Gurdwara Singh Sabha Sikh Center e.v. Schwarzer Weg 32, 22309 Hamburg Contact: Ramen Deep Singh Robin Singh +49176 609 3982 Gurdwara +49 40 63708902 E-Mail Robin.Singh@live.de Amrit Sanchar: Amritsanchar will be on Saturday

Masands were not punished for personal reasons. But Mohammad killed others for claiming what he thought was his personal right.

We should be very careful and hesitant to compare two prophets, its very dangerous slope at the end of day you cannot convince son of father to like another father just an example..if its happen naturally..gurparsad..all in hakum if it does not thats in raza too....all this back and forth becomes quite petty, lame and cheap... at the end of day, infinite suns (Guru maharaj- Satguru nanak in eleven forms) does NOT need to be explained or debated, its presence its self authenticating to all thats why ultimate nature form of our Satguru is Pure existence (Sat), Pure consciouness (Gur-Chaitan) and Bliss (Parsad) listed first thing in gurbani Ik0ngkar Satgurparsad mangal over and over again that interpertation was given in japji sahib steek by sant gyani gurbachan singh bhindranwale. Go with that true form of satguru nanak, other party does not have any chance. Regarding examples above in the above post All it takes any muslim historian who have read sikh history to come back with sakhi of sri guru gobind singh ji burned masands alive to debunk the above.

AURANGABAD (MAHARASHTRA): The superintendent of the Takht Sachkhand Hazur Sahib in Nanded on Tuesday said that Punjab revenue minister Bikram Singh Majithia was not forgiven yet for distorting a hymn of Guru Gobind Singh. Majithia had been held "guilty of religious misconduct" and a Hukamnama (edict) to this effect was issued by Nanded Jathedar Santbaba Kulwant Singh and four other Panchpyaras on Sunday. Majithia had allegedly distorting the hymn of Guru Gobind Singh while seeking victory for the BJP's Amritsar candidate Arun Jaitley in the Lok Sabha elections. Majithia is managing Jaitley's campaign. Jathedar of the Takht Sachkhand Hazur Sahib, Nanded, one of the five highest seats of authorities in Sikhism where the 10th Guru Gobind Singh breathed his last, had declared Majithia "an apostate" for "showing disrespect" to the compositions of the Sikh Gurus. Majithia was accused of inserting the BJP leader's name in the at an election rally. "Majithia has admitted to his mistake but that's not enough. He has to appear before the Takht that had declared him Tanakhaiya and tender apology. He will be he heard by the Panchpyaras who will decide the mode of punishment," said Ranjeet Singh Chiraghiya, the superintendent of the Takht Sachkhand Hazur Sahib. "We have received a letter from Majithia in which he had admitted to his mistake and sought pardon. Following this a meeting was held at Nanded Gurudwara and Majithia's communication was discussed there. But the decision on pardon has not yet been taken," he added. The Sikh community in Nanded was surprised over the reports that Majithia has been pardoned and approached the Gurudwara officials on Tuesday. "Majithia has to personally appear before the Takht in Nanded where the Panchpyaras will listen to him. Then his punishment will be decided, which may include sweeping of the premises or cleaning the shoes of the devotees. After facing the punishment, he will again have to present himself before the Panchpyaras, who will then take a final decision," Chiraghiya said. The Nanded Gurudwara had declared former president Gyani Zail Singh and former Union home minister Buta Singh as apostate following Operation Blue Star. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/City/Aurangabad/Majithia-not-pardoned-yet-Nanded-Sikh-clergy/articleshow/34400233.cms

What needs to be looked at is how the Sikh Gurus handled and dealt with those who claimed to be the Guru in comparison to Mohammad. It does not matter whether one is a family or not. During Guru Nanak Dev Ji, a Nanoo Pandit adopted the name Nanak and claimed to be the prophesized prophet but when he had a dialogue with Guru Sahib, he admitted his mistake and reformed himself. On the other hand, when someone claimed to be a prophet during Mohammads time, the latter sent his followers to kill the former. No dialogue ever took place. This shows how Mohammad reacted violently when his ego was hurt. If one wants to compare apples to apples then the only correct comparison is the time period of the first Guru and Mohammad because both were first leaders of their respective communities. Guru Sahib appointed a successor which kept Gurmat from falling in divisions and internal conflicts. Opposition that came from Minas, Ram Rais etc. was from those who had deviated from Gurmat and can be compared to those like Abu Jahl. The cause of opposition was the desire to become the rightful heir to Gurugaddi. Guru Sahib or Sikhs never showed violent hostility towards such groups. Even after ascension of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Sikhs did not kill any fake gurus. It was easy for the Gurus to eliminate such groups but being full of mercy and having conquered their ego, they did not act in anger. They believed that falsehood doesnt last forever and in lapse of time such groups disappeared. This shows that Sikhs bore no hatred for any such groups. Mohammad on the other hand had no plans to appoint any successor which is why no one from his family could claim to be the next prophet. Also, Mohammad had no sons when he died so who could really lay any claim? Nonetheless, his death brought internal conflict over the next leader and eventually resulted in Shia Sunni split. Sikh nation has never faced such a split. Various jathebandis with minor rehat differences are unanimous that Sri Guru Granth Sahib is the rightful successor of Gurugaddi. Those who claimed to be the prophet after Mohammads death were severely dealt with and killed. Further, Mohammad had his own share of problems and family feuds. His wives were constantly involved in conspiracy, slandering and bickering over sex nights. They were jealous of each other constantly engaged in trying to win more nights by badmouthing the other. At least two of Mohammads marriages were broken on the wedding night even before he had the chance to consummate. He was so disturbed that he left all his wives for some time and vowed to not have sex with them. He even threatened to divorce them if they didnt correct their attitude and Allah threatened to replace them with better wives. Guru Sahib had no such conflicts with their wives. Whereas Sikh Gurus and Sikhs showed compassion and adopted more liberal attitude towards the opposing groups, Mohammad and Muslims were ruthless, hateful and intolerant.

I first heard of this story on CBC the Canadian site, the problem is so many anti-immigrant minded people use people as scapegoats, even though everyone but the Natives have immigrated here at some point, there are still those that think immigrants should be 'white'. Thankfully these ideas are decreasing and we don't have to fight so hard, but we still have to fight, I dream of the day where a Sikh can wake up and live his day without any stares, without any rude comments, without intolerance, its sad that our appearance or devotion to human rights and equality, things that the west has learned 500 years after us, still make us 'different' when many Sikhs have served in the Canadian military, have put their lives on the line, many Sikhs have died for the British empire and the wars in Europe, our people still have to face this, the children still have to cry and be bullied for their hair, its not right, its just not right, because its bullying, you can criticize, you can argue, but bullying, bullying is wrong, and thats what this flyer does, it bullies Sikhs who are clearly happy and enjoying their time in the picture, it bullies Sikhs for living in Canada, our crime was what? wanting to live in Canada, 98% of the population of Canada here immigrated here either directly or through ancestors, we are just one group to do what the people handing these out obviously did themselves. thankfully many Canadians are on our side, understandably those who know the most about sikhism have defended us, it will take years, but these voices will grow dimmer and dimmer

It will be shame for Sikh Panth if Jaitley wins from Amritsar.

WJKK WJKF I will answer most of your questions no problems. 1) Yes you will experience some sweat and hotness during the summer wearing a dastaar in 80 degrees or hotter weather. It isn't too bad at some times but you will eventually be used to the heat no doubt. So do not worry at all. 2) If you want a kind of dastaar that is very secure on your head you should wear a dumalla. Dumallas are tight and keep your head secure. 3) Different people use different materials like voil or malmal... If you want a soft and light material you should get malmal (f74)

No one takes these debates seriously, especially the intellectual and reasonable general public. This includes Muslims as well, most are embarrassed by the dishonest tactics used by the website you posted. Anyways, here's a good website and basics of Sikhi has a great debate against one of these salafi fanatics: http://searchsikhism.com/sikhism-islam

WJKK WJKF How disgusting, I hope this <banned word filter activated> goes to jail, his beadbi is so wrong on so many levels! I wonder what Shiri Guru Gobind Singhs punishment would of been to this American gangster wannabe? WJKK WJKF

This is a story I have been working on. Please criticise it as you see fit. Warriors of Chandi. Despite his aching bones, the old warrior urged his mount on faster. The hunt had begun days back and evolved into a tedious pursuit. The quarry was in his sights, and he was not about to forfeit the honour it would bring him. For a long time now, he had been mounted. His back moaned in protest whilst his hips begged for relief. But relief there would be not! No man worth his salt would surrender now. Not when the mighty buck, prince of the woods was slowly wearying of protest. As if reading his thoughts, the aristocratic bovine halted. Turning around it took the measure of its foe. The old man too halted, his horse whinnying in protest. With a quick kick he silenced it, not wishing to disturb the now wearied prince. Slowly circling each other, prey and predator, the man and beast considered their options. Would the thrust of cold metal triumph, or would the antlers of the buck grown over months rend the hunter limb to limb? Than as if fate had tired of the debacle playing amongst Mother Nature, a sudden flight of a sparrow amidst the trees startled both. Grasping the moment both the monarch and the peasant flew towards each other. Their speed aided by the intensity of the moment, blood rushing in the ears of both and then with a mighty leap both were at each other. The young hunters, resting in their saddles, were startled awake by a mighty roar. Looking about they heard the whimpers of a beast in the throes of death. Smiling they turned back towards the village. Nihal Singh followed suite. The old Nihung was tired in both spirit and limb. His steed too protested the ardent weight of the buck upon its back, but one kick from its master sufficed to silence it. The mount enjoyed a precarious relationship with its master. In its younger days, when the dew had still tasted fresh, it had carried him into battle. Butting other steeds it had shamed many into submission, but the ways of the two-legged ones stumped it. Rather than shaming the opponent by butting it, or even kicking it, they resorted to steel. And blood had flown as a result. Its first taste of carnage had not been long in coming, perplexed it had later sought out its mates and questioned them over the ways of the two-leggeds. They had only whinnied their perplexity and went back to chewing their grass. The horse was truly getting tedious. It whinnied its protests rendering him deaf. Nihal Singh persevered on however. The hunt was over, but its fruit had to be brought to the camp before nightfall. Otherwise the youngsters would again be given a diet of Sukha. He smiled at the memory. It only made the drinker hungry, and the children had cried their protests the first time. They had soon learned to preserve silence however. Especially when Imperial patrols sortied close to their camps. He silently prayed that the camp was in the same location. Otherwise the buck would start too rot, and where would he be then? ‘So the old tiger still possesses fangs!’ Nihal Singh halted his horse (earning a wholesome round of protests from it) and peered into the underbrush. Several shapes emerged from it, and soon a whole troop of seven Nihungs encircled him. They had only matured last winter, and most hadn’t even earned their farlas yet or been fully bloodied. ‘Useless! Useless the whole lot of you!’ he judged. But his heart was proud. All seven had nearly snatched the buck from his hands; it was only his years of experience in the forests which had given him the upper hand. His mentees cast mock faces at him, expressing distraught and faked anger. ‘We are never too good for you Baba…’ they moaned (at this stage his horse took the cue to start once again), he laughed at their joviality. ‘Come on then’ he ordered ‘back to the palace.’ With the arriving of the hunters, the atmosphere had cleared and finally the smell of food filled the air. For days now no one had eaten, and Baghel could not remember the last time something solid had pleasured his taste-buds. The ‘palace’ as it was known was their camp. Always mobile, they only stayed a week at the most in one region and then set off deeper into the wildness. This had been his way of life since the start, he had known no other. Regarded as being an anomaly of sorts, amongst his fellows, Baghel despite his turban and sword wasn’t a Sikh. He had been a rat of the streets, cast out like some vile vermin from his mother’s womb and destined for a future of thievery, exploitation and violence. His fortunes however had peaked when he had attempted to thieve a blue-clad man. His victim had looked into his eyes before shattering his chartered world with a wholesome smack. To Baghel it had felt like an earthquake. This had been his fist meeting with Nihal Singh, a Sikh fugitive trying to hide amongst the vermin of Lahore. Baghel’s body though reeling from the shock of the blow, had paved the way for his mind to start calculating. He was a fugitive himself, and what more the Sikh could be his protector. Thus what he had done next had surprised even him. Falling to his feet he had begged, cried, and even suspiciously whinnied for Nihal Singh’s companionship. The Nihung had shaken his head and agreed. After all he would be needing a guide to Lahore. That was then, now Baghel was his protector’s apprentice. But whereas the other’s learnt to fight. He was tasked with the kitchen and the governing of the adolescents. Treated as a prince amongst the ‘palace’ his dishes ranged from the mediocre cold to the furnace hot. Yet his patrons tolerated his handiwork, despite later disappearing for prolonged periods of gaseous revilement. Receiving the deer from Nihal Singh, he set to work. A few of the Nihungs joined him. Laughing and gesticulating wildly they recounted their exploits on the game trail. ‘Did you see me?!’ One of them wildly shouted. ‘Oh we saw you alright,’ his companion responded ‘riding as wildly as that fat Mughal we thrashed last summer.’ This earned a riotous acclaim of laughter from his friends, Baghel however chose to remain quiet. Why should he indulge in such mirth? His own exploits of bravery only extended to catching the stray chicken, or balancing the cauldron of hot water which he boiled in the mornings. From the start he had begged Nihal Singh to recruit him amongst his warriors, but the Nihung had refused. ‘You be our woman for now boy,’ the warrior had replied. ‘When the time comes than you shall lift the sword.’ Reminiscing of times past he lifted his head, where was the old dog anyway? Upon entering the camp, Nihal Singh had relieved his burden upon the shoulders of Baghel. The boy had been a miraculous find, a gem amongst the vermin from which he had emerged. Trotting to his tent, he had tied his whinnying steed outside it and himself journeyed to the ‘landlord’s’ tent. Despite his undisputed authority over the 45 residents of the ‘palace’ the ‘landlord’ was the only one who could usurp it. Acknowledging this fateful stint in his affairs, Nihal often appeased him. The ‘landlord’ was a blind old man, born amongst the Sikhs of Guru Teghbahadur he had witnessed the epoch of the Khalsa with his own eyes. In the aftermath he had joined Banda Singh, and then Binod Singh. But the years had not been kind to him and now he was only a former shadow of himself. Burdened by the years he had suffered more loss than even Nihal Singh himself. Wiling away his days, the old man sat beside a fire constantly engrossed in the peculiarities of his own mind. Sensing Nihal Singh’s presence he lifted his hollow eyes and bade him to sit. Silently contemplating the fire both men could have been mistaken for father and son. After a while Nihal Singh broke the silence, ‘did you hear?’ he silently queried. Despite no reaction from his body, the ‘landlord’s’ mind was already at work. Debating whether to reveal what ‘he had heard’ or stay silent. After a pregnant few minutes he replied, ‘it seems what they say is true. There really is a change in affairs.’ Nihal Singh remained silent then, ‘I have no reason to doubt the news. Even the beggars have picked it up, and our men tell us about it. But if so, than why?’ This catalysed in another pregnant silence from the ‘landlord.’ Then grimacing he replied, ‘a battle and a big one.’ Nihal Singh looked at him. He was thunder-struck, it was the umpteenth time that the old man had silenced him with his unexpected intelligence. He started to acknowledge that maybe Baghel was right. Maybe the old man was visited by an agent, or fellow fugitive, in the dead of the night. But how this individual evaded his security measures left him perplexed. Maybe it was a sibling of Banda’s spirits? The old man looked wizened enough to pass for a sorcerer after all. ‘Where?’ he asked curiously. ‘Waan’ his companion replied. ‘Seek Waan.’ Nihal Singh realised anymore talk with the old man would only render the conversation into a riddle. The ‘landlord’ had said his piece. Now it was his turn to discover more. Setting out with the crack of dawn, the next morning, Nihal Singh and his new steed journeyed out of the ‘palace stables.’ Grimacing at being in the saddle again, the old Nihung was thankful for his new mount. Silent and sturdy, it had replaced its much older parent. Silence was the need of the hour, especially if he was to seek out Waan. The morning was shrouded with mist, and a chill was prevalent in the air. Seeking scour amongst the folds of his cloak Nihal Singh trotted on, forward to an ascetic village near the fringes of Lahore. As he journeyed he reflected upon the village’s residences. Headed by an ascetic named Brahm-Dass, it was habited by a mediocre populace of the iconoclastic Udasis. Established by Guru Nanak Dev Ji’s first born son, Sri Chand, their diversity in dress and habit had led to them surviving their brethren’s prosecution. The first time Nihal Singh had encountered Brahm-Dass, the Udasi had proven himself to be the Devil’s advocate. The Nihung’s tutor, and master, Mani Singh had dispatched him to warn the Udasi of a mass movement of troops in his direction. Brahm-Dass had affectionately chuckled at the news, than scratched the messenger’s wounds raw. Their subsequent meetings, over the years, however had panned out and both respected each other although they ardently criticised the other for his defects. Nihal Singh sullenly reflected over his past. The son of a merchant, he had been born with gold in his hands. Pampered and indulged from his birth, he grew up in a feminine environment, especially with his father journeying far and wide. Than upon reaching maturity he fell prey to the whims of a local belle. Entranced by her he had commenced a silent affair. His father however had found out and summoned the girl’s parents. Both lovers had been shamed and with the girl being a Hindu, and Nihal Singh himself being a Muslim, the girl’s parents had been ostracised not only by the regional Muslims, but by also her own kith and kin. As for the young Majnu himself, he had been packed off to Delhi to manage his father’s affairs there. But a usurper had arrived in the form of a brother-in-law. A haughty Pathan, he had taken to expelling and belittling the already embittered Nihal Singh. Thus, the young deputy had taken to escaping into the streets of Delhi and attending the mass spectacles put on for the crowd. A sub-ordinate clerk had once dragged him to an imperial spectacle in central Delhi. The male-dom of the Mughal dynasty had dragged fugitives from the Punjab to Delhi and now prepared to execute them. ‘Banda’s here; kill the infidel! Slaughter him!’ was the crowd’s cry. The Banda, if that was truly his name, himself was a Goliath. Resembling a lion, he had roared out the veracity of his faith and cowered his captors. The young Nihal had watched as more than two hundred fugitives were beheaded over the course of the next few days. Horrified he had escaped the banter and cheers of the crowd and hidden in the slums. It was there he had encountered a Sikh, or the former shadow of one. Living in the guise of a Brahmin beggar, he had regaled Nihal Singh with tales of valour and awe. Ultimately Nihal had made up his mind. He would escape the confines of his family, and also that of his society. Packing his bags he had excused himself from Delhi, for a few days, under the pretext of sickness. Commencing a journey to Amritsar he had encountered a Nihung. Asking for directions he had been dispatched to the city’s central precincts and told to await Mani Singh, a Sikh of almost imperial standing. When Mani Singh had arrived, an awesome spectacle had presented itself before Nihal Singh. Wearing a mesmerising turban, with a curious fan jutting out, and regaled in weaponry Mani Singh was more myth than legend. Sitting down with Nihal, he had commenced an arduous interview of the willing initiate. After forewarning him of the rigours of his chosen path, the sagely Sikh had bade him to join his educational entity in Amritsar. Complying, the next three years of the convert’s life had been spent in a fantasia of education, martiality, spirituality and service. It was then that he had been dispatched to Brahm-Dass to forewarn him of a large cluster of Imperial troops heading his way. The Udasi pedagogue had silently listened to his news than after a while commenced a subtle interrogation. Finally the Udasi had reached his conclusive query, ‘did you sleep with this woman?’ He bluntly asked. Nihal Singh had been affronted and made it evident. The orange-clad devil in front of him had however chuckled, ‘it was not love fool. He had silently whispered, ‘it was only lust.’ Over time Nihal Singh had found himself agreeing more and more with Brahm-Dass’s rationalisation. His youth had been spent in the clutches of possessive women. He had wanted to possess one as a sign of his own prowess. All that however had been snatched from his grasp. Up ahead he heard the rush of a creek. The Udasi hamlet had arrived and he dismounted. Silently treading towards a clearing in the trees, he saw Brahm-Dass meditating. ‘Peace be upon you!’ the Nihung cried, overjoyed at dispelling the Udasi’s peace. ‘May all be destroyed’ the Udasi cursed as he stood up. ‘I dreamt you were coming harbinger of doom!’ He screeched than burst out laughing. Nihal Singh looked on at the spectacle and shook his head; Brahm-Dass was an eccentric mix of mirth and the mundane. Often bursting out in spasms of curses as he pleased. The Udasi bade him sit and offered him food. Still chuckling at his outburst, he quizzed Nihal Singh on his coming.

There is a tuk "beleived" to be said by Guru Sahib about Topi or Cap.It goes something like this: "Jo sikh sir topi thhare, Sat janam Kushtee hoyee maree" I was just curious if somebdy has any reference to the above tuk.I just want to know who(among the 10 gurus) said this and what were the circumstances under which they uttered the above tuk. I also never found anywhere in Gurbani where our guru sahib mentioned "saat janam" or "seven incarnations". Can somebdy plz explain what does "saat janam" implies here?And also where can we find the reference to the above tuk. If we search for cap we find two instances: Page 939, Line 8 -- Guru Nanak Dev aUNDau Kpru pMc BU topI ] Let your mind turn away in detachment from the world, and let this be your begging bowl. Let the lessons of the five elements be your cap. Page 1167, Line 14 -- Saint Nam Dev ijin Awkws kulh isir kInI kausY spq pXwlw ] Your cap is the realm of the Akaashic ethers; the seven nether worlds are Your sandals. Thanks. Regards, --Balwinder Singh

WJKK WJKF Where can I download books such as Sach khand darshan in English and Punjabi?

I can be certain they go aboard on the internet and not just FB. Especially if Anti-Indian haters or Khalistan supports have arguments on India media-based sites or FB pages get all of that deleted just to be safe. You really never know tbh.

If you remain anonymous you shouldn't have any problem. You can get PCC from passport office the same day as long as you know someone and pay bribe.

Anyone know what this is in aid of ? can it be jadu ? because i'm engaged to an english woman who is of my own choosing and someone that i am compatible with, on the outside she seems fine by this but i don't know what she could be thinking on the inside and i also don't understand why sikhs do this when sikhism teaches us not to be byast and fascist and to treat everyone the same. hope someone can answer me about the oil question.

First time heard of this one. Some people do things to protect from najarh(evil eye), dont know if they work thou. Ask your mom why she does it.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh COPY OF ORDER TO CARRY HOLY SARUPS OF GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI IN CONTAINER. TO WHOMSOEVER IT MAY CONCERN This is to certify that the container number HR 38 P 8828 has been engaged by Delhi Sikh Gurudwara Management Committeee to carry holy Guru Granth Sahib (Beers) from Gurudwara Rakabganj Sahib to Container Depot, Faridabad, Haryana, for further shipment to abroad. The same may be allowed to reach Gurudwara Rakabganj Sahib. Signed by Chief Adminstrator Ajmer Singh On behalf of Delhi Sikh Gurudwara Managemnt Committee. ------------------------- In the past, Sarna tried to send Holy Maharaj Sarups in a container and Sangat protested against it.

Was Jagmeet Singh denied entry due to his publicised involvement? He was quite a figurehead and they picked on him for that. But that's my personal assertion. I have a friend who has been to India only once and got caught up with the DalKhalsaUk page. Also aired a few viewpoints on facebook and got involved in debates with Hindus. Now he's washed his hands off all this and is focusing more on spirituality. He wants to go to India but is scared he might be detained at the airport because of his comments on fb.

I'm not so sure but from what I've heard it is possible for the Indian Gov't too have background checks on those who visit India. For example NDP politcian Jagmeet Singh was denied visa to India due to his involvement in 1984 campaigns in Canada. So i am not really sure but indeed there are checks on people coming to India.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafa_Sultan http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/73370-the-sikh-martyr-of-guru-nanak-period/

this is seriously very disgusting!! I am disgusted... He better pays for it like Ram Rai

Need a kick in the butt ? Watch this http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SdWjdwZ2la8

On the topic of gurmantra. BHAI GURDAS JI cleared the issue by saying Vaheguru is the true mantra. Jaap of har, raam, satnaam, akaal, Vaheguru are only virtues with the instructions of the Guru. If today someone says jaap Vaheguru and the person ask what is the arth (meaning) of it. The person says the meaning is a women with a red suit on sitting in the mountain eating nuts. There will be no virtue in jaap Vaheguru. The person will be meditating on a woman with a red suit on sitting in the mountain eating nuts. How much sense does this make. Jaap har today or tomorrow but make sure you know the meaning. Hindus listen to Gurbani and when they hear Har. They remember Krishna. When they read Raam. They remember Raamchandr. They might as well remember the lady up in the mountain with a red suit on eating nuts. A mantra only gets the stamp of Gurmantra when the true understanding behind it is given by the true Guru; Gurbani. Jaap of Allah, Har, Raam, Govind, etc is not impure. The meaning and instructions given by a fool make it lost in vain. How many pauri does Jaap Sahib have? 199. How many names do Muslims say there is for God? 99. Any connection here? What language is most of Jaap Sahib written in? Language that Muslims understand. Jaap Sahib directly attacks there theory of only 99 names and says there is unlimited at the beginning and stopping at 199 pauris. 199 means unlimited. All can't be said. If Gur sahib made 200 pauris the reader is given the indication the names are complete. 200 is a nice even number that indicates a end. But there is no end, no last. This forces the mind to think of the beginning where Guru Sahib say not all can be said. Brings peace, and contentment In the persons mind because it shows only he knows all. Total surrender.

I dont know why you are laughing so hard. Balbir and you are the same but at opposite ends. In the same way you tried to present Gurbani lines out of context. Thats exactly what balbir has done. He says he has the hidden message and you say your Baba and you have the hidden message. He demonized you in this discussion and you demonized others in the past in the same way. I have to admit balbir trapped you and is more correct about praise even though with his last post he went completely crazy.

It's another squirrel from the secret squirrel society ! :excited: :lol2: :excited: ssssshhhhhhhhhhhh!!

If you memorize it you are more deeply in the meanings as its requires more of your attention.. or is easier to understand somehow. I know this is not good advice because not all of the Sangat is approving Namdharis so sorry but I thought it was relevent so.. Baba Ram Singh in his rehatnama or hukhnama i forgot what is called but he says to memorize bani and recite it from memory and he also says to do kirtan daily so if you could take that advice I earnestly it will help you as a Gursikh.. I apologize for not finding a better example but that is the most relateable one that came up in my head.

Don't listen to that so called Granthi. He's probably a missionary. All they do is break people's Shardha. Jaap of Gurbani should be done, the more the better. Our Mann is polluted from many janams. The only way to clean it is through Naam Simran and Gurbani.

Please provide me one reference where our Gurus have said that we should love or we can love. is there a reference where they say we should NOT love ???? :stupidme: I will tell you the ONLY reference that I feel will answer ALL your scholarly demanding proofs and questions ? That reference answer is - ੴ To me, this is the FIRST word and the LAST word for everything. I'm sorry, I have no interest in debating with you or trying to provide more references to back up my statements. If anyone doesn't like or understand any positive message in my quotes, then I'm afraid they shall have to look elsewhere ! Because, I really cannot afford to waste my energy that ends up draining me spiritually. :ohno: I am a bad man that is simply trying to love and respect all without 'poking' others. I should rather poke myself, after I eventually find myself. Let me be on my inner journey and I hope you can find yourself for your own inner quest. Sat sri akal and God bless

There is a saying going like this: There is no greater blind, who does not want to see. Not that he/she can not see, but refuses to see, because he is stuck on personal ego, or even personal observations or interpretations. All the posts referred above on the Mahima of Wahiguru, are just a infinitesimal greatness, of His infinite virtues, and are from the angs of Guru Jee. Though it has been said, that nothing new was created or added by me, because we are moorakhs compared to our Guru Sahibans, who left the Bani for us, so that we get ideas(though limited) of how great He is. And this job none other than our Guru Sahibans or Gurmukhs could have done, as they have a personal experience of that infinite being, namely Wahiguru, while we just talk on presumptions or just guessing, unless we too do the jugtee of revealing Him within us, as per Nam Simran. So, if somebody has a thick veil of ego and arrogance, before his eyes, naturally he will deny all His Mahima. And for that purpose, again I am going to pour out His mahima, with the support of the Amrit Bani, in the Guru Granth Sahib. In Raag Gauree, Fifth Patshahee, describes some of His infintes virtues using the limited extensions of words, because it is by words, that we can listen, and understand to an extent. This Shabad describes the very topics of this thread: which are Wahiguru, Nam and His Gurmukhs. And all of these are described perfectly by Fifth Patshahee in the following lines agam roop kaa man meh thaanaa. The Lord(Wahiguru) of Unfathomable Form has His Place in the mind. First of all, He is talking about the form of Wahiguru as Agam Roop, which by itself is His description, otherwise He is unfathomable. gur parsaad kinai virlai jaanaa. By Guru's Grace, a rare few come to understand this. Then He is telling us, that by Guru´s Grace, a very few come to understand this, others wander in debates and discussions or even worse, deny His Mahima or His existence. anhat banee thaan niraalaa. The unstruck melody of the Guru's Bani vibrates in that most special place. taa kee Dhun mohay gopaalaa. The Lord of the World is fascinated with this melody. Then He is telling us something of Sach Khand and the owner Lord of Sach Khand. He is saying that the Anhad Bani of Nam is being played there unstruck, means non stop. And going a little bit further, He is telling us, that, that very Akal Purukh, is absorbed, is fascinated with that Divine melody of Nam. And in some lines atfer, He tells us, the importance and heights of the Gurmukhs, sadhoos, Sant Janas, Guru sahibans, Bhagats: paarbarahm kay sangee santaa. there, the Saints dwell, in the Company of the Supreme Lord God. So we can see, in just few lines and in a simple manner, Fifth Patshahee, has decribed, the Mahima of Wahiguru, of Nam, and His Gurmukhs. If again, this descrition is not in words of Wahiguru, from Sree Guru Arjun Dev Maharaj, then what is it? We are so egoistic, so much self centered about ourselves, that even after reading and listening His mahima, through the pure paviter Bani of our Guru Sahibans we say: no no, that is nothing, this is not mahima, because nobody can do so. We are so mean and low, we pput ourselves even befor our very Guru Sahibans, who are the very embodiment of wahiguru Akal Purukh, to th extent that we question and doubt their words of His Mahima..... shame on those, who are so closed minded! There are many many more Shabads, which describe the mahima, the greatness of Wahiguru. Read any Bani, any Shabd, it is nothing but His Mahima. Starting from the vey mool mantar, it describes the unique qualities of Wahiguru, and describing His qualities, His virtues, is nothing but His Mahima. Wah wah Sachay Badshah.

Dear Balbir Singh Jee, Though the words play a very important role, but it is the meaning behind them, which counts more. As I said, when I chose the title of this thread, it was not because, I saw any Vaak as such, neither it was my intention. My intention was just to bring forth the Mahima, the greatness, of the Holy Trinity of the topic of this thread, which constitutes the only beauty and reality. As apart from them, all is "koorr". Just as, the liquid water, the vapour, and the ice, are different in aspects, but are the same in essence, so is Wahiguru, His Nam and His Gurmukhs..... So if the Vaak, the title, is of Sadhoo sang kee .... is mentioning a Sadhoo, a Gurmukh; is the Bani not talking of the same level of consciousness? Is that Sadhoo a ordinary human being of whom the Bani talks about? No. The Bani is talking about that Sadhoo, that Gurmukh, who is one with Wahiguru Akal Purukh. It is we people who use words or languages to express ourselves. Actually Wahiguru is a consciouss power, a highest level of consciousness.... Wahiguru by Himself is not a word in any language, but a reality beyond all perceptions... The Bani says: Nanak, Sadh, Prabh, bhed na bhaee. From Nam or Shabad, Wahiguru came out, and from Wahiguru, the Guru Sahibans, His Bhagats, His Sant Jan, came .... so in the end, is it not the same thing? Because again by His Nam or Shabad, they return back to Him, and merge in Him becoming Him, becoming that Nam or Shabad. They may appear to us, different, from different points of views, in different dimensions, but the power within them, is the same, which is of Nam or Shabad ...so in the end it is the same thing. Hope I have not complicated things, but believe me, such is the wonderous Bani of our Guru Sahibans. Waheguru Jee.

well.. evidence wise its in the dastaar i suppose. but the way it happened is when they were making the railway line from mombasa to nairobi, they came to makindo. they could not pass through makindo because there was either 1. a powerful shakti of god there, or 2. the jungle was too thick. (i personally believe both). then, they had to go around the forrest, and they made it to nairobi. sikhs were employed as workers, as were kale. the sikhs braught guru granth sahib along with them and after every 10 miles or so, they used to set up camp with guru granth sahib. when they got to mombasa, they had to spend a while there. in doing so, a small wooden room was made for guru granth sahib, and this was later made into a bigger gurdwara. when the sikhs and railway workers went from makindo, they left a few kale behind to take care of guru granth sahib, because their time in mombasa during the building of the railway line was long, so the kale learnt how to do satkaar or guru maharaj. the kale used to do seva of maharaj, make langar and do seva of anyone who came there to that small gurdwara. then, one day, the kala either missed his duty, or came for his duty to do seva of maharaj and when he came there, guru gobind singh ji was there doing seva, but the kala didnt know who they were. so, after guru ji presumably, finished the hukamnama, guru gobind singh ji said, this is rehet, and told the kala how to do seva of guru maharaj (presumably because the kala wasnt taught properly how to do guru maharaj seva). so anyway, the kala went to nairobi where the majority of the sikhs were, and told of his experiences. at that time, all sikhs knew each other. but the kala said, he did not recognise who guru gobind singh ji was, who the 'sevak' was who done seva of guru maharaj. but he saw a foto of guru gobind singh ji, and said thats the man who told me. he was adement it was guru ji. no one believed him but since then, the amritdhari kala singhs are there in africa, presumably growing in number. there used to be a hand drawn foto of guru gobind singh ji on the wall of the gurdwara constructed at makindo, but it was either painted over, or broken down. guru ji came to kenya around 1960, when makindo gurgwara was being made. some say the kala saw guru gobind singh ji come down on a horse with their baaj etc. and others say that guru granth sahib was being neglected (because the kala was lazy; what new ey! ) amidist the woods, (this is what i believe), and guru ji had to come down and do seva as described in the above block text. horseshoe prints were seen after guru gobind singh ji went by the kala and there was no horse to be seen. (presumably this was during a short time frame). the actual original wooden palki that was constructed was by a sikh and theres a foto online of this wooden palki i believe. >> but yes. the kala singhs first adopted this so aptly named kenyan dastar. and they, the kala singhs taught the other indians how to tie the kenyan dastar, opposed to the indian dastar. some mentality like 'you are now kenyans so u must wear our dastar' may have been used! :laugh2: dhan guru! guru nanak dev ji also came as far as uganda. hence a town called bamunanika

Very Interesting, Guru Gobind Singh was in Africa? When? Any evidence of this?

Another thing, I want to wear a orange keski and a navy dumalla but they say I should wear black, but that is not what the panj pyare wore. What should I say?

"It's not about counting rhetorical devices"...(Jagraj Singh) Debate over. Seriously, what was he going on about? 10 words prove it's God's work? What? The thing that proves Sikhi is the best is how it doesn't need to prove it is the light for the world. It doesn't need to claim that it will save mankind. One just has to read a few angs of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and they will realise this treasure is here for the whole world, "Jagat Guru".

What's the point of arguing & debate. will second Singh598 ਬਾਦੁ ਬਿਬਾਦੁ ਕਾਹੂ ਸਿਉ ਨ ਕੀਜੈ ॥ Baadh Bibaadh Kaahoo Sio N Keejai || बादु बिबादु काहू सिउ न कीजै ॥ Do not engage in any arguments or debates with anyone. 12. Ang 1165 Line 8 Raag Bhaira-o: Bhagat Namdev Shabad 4154 Line 6 Raag Bhaira-o: Bhagat Namdev -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ਗਿਆਨੁ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਕਥੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਈ ॥ गिआनु गिआनु कथै सभु कोई ॥ Gi▫ān gi▫ān kathai sabẖ ko▫ī. Everyone talks about spiritual wisdom and spiritual knowledge. ਕਥੈ = ਆਖਦਾ ਹੈ। ਸਭੁ ਕੋਈ = ਹਰੇਕ ਜੀਵ। (ਜ਼ਬਾਨੀ ਜ਼ਬਾਨੀ ਤਾਂ) ਹਰ ਕੋਈ ਆਖਦਾ ਹੈ (ਕਿ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ) ਗਿਆਨ (ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ), ਗਿਆਨ (ਮਿਲ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ), ਕਥਿ ਕਥਿ ਬਾਦੁ ਕਰੇ ਦੁਖੁ ਹੋਈ ॥ कथि कथि बादु करे दुखु होई ॥ Kath kath bāḏ kare ḏukẖ ho▫ī. Talking, talking, they argue, and suffer. ਕਥਿ ਕਥਿ = (ਗਿਆਨ = ਚਰਚਾ) ਆਖ ਆਖ ਕੇ। ਬਾਦੁ = ਚਰਚਾ। (ਜਿਉਂ ਜਿਉਂ ਗਿਆਨ ਗਿਆਨ) ਆਖ ਕੇ ਚਰਚਾ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ (ਉਸ ਚਰਚਾ ਵਿਚੋਂ) ਕਲੇਸ਼ ਹੀ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਕਥਿ ਕਹਣੈ ਤੇ ਰਹੈ ਨ ਕੋਈ ॥ कथि कहणै ते रहै न कोई ॥ Kath kahṇai ṯe rahai na ko▫ī. No one can stop talking and discussing it. ਕਥਿ = ਕਥ ਕੇ, ਆਖ ਕੇ। ਕਹਣੈ ਤੇ = ਕਹਿਣ ਤੋਂ, ਚਰਚਾ ਕਰਨ ਤੋਂ। ਰਹੈ ਨ = ਹਟਦਾ ਨਹੀਂ। ਚਰਚਾ ਕਰ ਕੇ (ਅਜੇਹੀ ਆਦਤ ਪੈ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ ਕਿ) ਚਰਚਾ ਕਰਨ ਤੋਂ ਜੀਵ ਹਟਦਾ ਭੀ ਨਹੀਂ। ਬਿਨੁ ਰਸ ਰਾਤੇ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੨॥ बिनु रस राते मुकति न होई ॥२॥ Bin ras rāṯe mukaṯ na ho▫ī. ||2|| Without being imbued with the subtle essence, there is no liberation. ||2|| ਮੁਕਤਿ = (ਵਿਕਾਰਾਂ ਤੋਂ) ਖ਼ਲਾਸੀ ॥੨॥ (ਪਰ ਚਰਚਾ ਤੋਂ ਕੋਈ ਆਤਮਕ ਆਨੰਦ ਨਹੀਂ ਮਿਲਦਾ, ਕਿਉਂਕਿ) ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ-ਰਸ ਵਿਚ ਰੰਗੇ ਜਾਣ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਵਿਕਾਰਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਖ਼ਲਾਸੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਮਿਲਦੀ ॥੨॥ Source - http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=1&fb=0&Param=831

Here is a beautiful Amrit Vela Simran recording of Veer Manpreet Singh from 9th March 2013. Simply divine stuff... http://soundcloud.com/satwant8/20130309-veer-manpreet-singh and some other live kirtan recordings http://soundcloud.com/satwant2/20130127-veer-manpreet-singh http://soundcloud.com/satwant2/20130210-veer-manpreet-singh http://soundcloud.com/satwant3/20130217-veer-manpreet-singh http://soundcloud.com/satwant5/20130316-veer-manpreet-singh http://soundcloud.com/satwant6/20130317-veer-manpreet-singh http://soundcloud.com/satwant7/20130324-veer-manpreet-singh

Very beautyful, i wished we sikhs could do more kirtan with those classical instruments.

A candle vigil was held in Surry in memory of Sikh Bhai Bhag Singh, many have given him the title 'the first Indian martyr on Canadian soil". In commemoration of the 95th anniversary of the death of Bhai Bhag Singh, hundreds gathered in his honour. The event was organised by the Indo Canadian Workers' Association (ICWA) at Bear Creek Park at 13750-88 Avenue Surry Bhai Bhag Singh headed the Khalsa Diwan Society, which is the oldest Sikh religious body in Canada. According to the ICWA, he and his comrade Bhai Badan Singh were shot by Bela Singh, an agent of the British government, on September 5, 1914. Both victims died. The shootings came less than two months after a vessel with more than 350 Indian immigrants, the Komagata Maru, was turned away from Vancouver's harbour. Bhai Bhag Singh campaigned to allow Indian immigrants to bring their families to Canada. Canadian laws at the time prohibited people from moving to this country if they didn't make a "continuous journey", which was impossible to do by sea from India given its distance from Canada. He also advocated on behalf of 376 passengers on the Komagata Maru, which was forced out of Burrard Inlet on July 23, 1914. Only 24 passengers were allowed to stay in Canada; the ship returned to Calcutta, where some passengers were fired upon by British soldiers. The ICWA stated that Bhai Bhag Singh also helped launch Swadesh Sewak, which was the first Punjabi newspaper published outside India. He urged former Sikh soldiers who fought for the British to burn their medals. Another Sikh pioneer in B.C., Bhai Mewa Singh, was so enraged by the murder of Bhai Bhag Singh that he killed British immigration officer William Hopkinson. Bhai Mewa Singh was hanged in New Westminster in 1915, according to the ICWA.

wow this is quite serious, i didnt know wat had realy happened.

GurFateh I have very little knowledge about gurbani, but I shall jus say that above quotes aren't suppose ti be littral, as in put on ur cap or somethin g its jus like thers bani about Muslims saying i.e Let this be your that let this be your mecca I can't remember the exact quote but main point is, its nto telöling us at all to wear topi sorry wasn't too mcuh help bhull chukk maaf GurFateh