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You are not debating. Please try to debate with facts not lies. You will not get very far with lies. When you say Sikhs were poor Hindus who were forced to convert into Sikhism, forced by whom? There is no precedent in our history of forced conversions, not even one. But Muslims the list is endless. You cannot deny it. Islamic history is as violent and oppressive as Christian history. Both Abrahamic cults. As for us believing in the existence of Devi Devtas. It is a fact they exist based on our scriptures. We don't subscribe to the Islamic paradigm of saying anything that is beyond the scope of the Quran and Hadith's is non existent. Abrahamic cults are like the frog in the well who does not know of the vast world beyond the well. Islam is just Arab paganism mixed with Judaism. Nothing more. As for you saying we are a foot note in Islamic history well we don't want to be a part of Islamic history. Islamic history is a history of human suffering, slavery, oppression, rape, forcible conversion. That's not something to be proud of.

Ain't no myths my boy... Read them written accounts.

We need to stick to our principles and stand our ground. We must ensure that our Sikhi does not become like this

https://tribune.com.pk/story/823696/pakistan-tops-list-of-most-porn-searching-countries-google Pakistan Zindabad!

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Pashtuns are the only respectable ones. The rest of the desi Muslims are just descendents of Hindus forcibly converted to Islam. They are a confused lot. First pretending to be Persians, Arabs and since the Urdu dubbing of the Turkish Drama Ertugul they now pretend to be Turkish lol. Even giving their kids Turkish names. They are ashamed to speak their own native languages with their wife and kids and have become Urdustan. Such a massive inferiority complex.

Guru ji killed only those Masands who had indulged in crimes against Sangat like raping of women, looting and killing. So they were given punishment. It was not about forcible conversion as you claim. If you don't have a point to make then at least don't use lies to make one. Or maybe you are trying to bring our Gurus down to the level of your prophet who had owned black slaves, used torture to extract treasure, marry an underage girl playing with dolls(pedophilia), marry his Jewish wife Saffiya the same day after killing her father and husband, marry his daughter in law because he was sexually aroused by her beauty. Besides this he destroyed idols of the Pagans of Makkah and told the Meccans to convert or leave Makkah. Is this the person you follow?

It's a shame they're divorced. Oh well, at least they're still cousins ?

One downvote from someone who talks to her peke 2-3 times per day... ?

Khalsa ji, we might as well sound the Nagara. This is over.

Bro is talking about Devi Devte when he believes Muhammad rode on the Buraq from Mecca to Jerusalem which is described as being a white animal, half-mule, half-donkey, with wings on its sides. Now I would provide a picture... But eh... What's the point.

It still hurts them..

We in USA and Canada need to do more to stop this beadbi of Maharaj. We need to stop interfaith Anand Karaj like they did in UK. Need to get the gurdwaras on board with stopping the interfaith marriages. Make a list of Gurudwaras that do it and how to stop them from doing it in the future.

o

These are the lies Pakistanis have been fed since 1947. Sikhs who were outnumbered by the Punjabi Muslims 10 to 1 banned azan and used badshahi mosque as a horse stable? Yet Muslims never rose up in rebellion? That's more insulting towards Mardangi of your ancestors than it is to us. Punjabi Muslims were given a place of respect by the Sikh rulers that they never received from the Afghan and Turkic rulers but Pakistani mullas don't teach that

o

In Ranjit Singh's empire the Sikhs were a mere 6% of the population while Muslims were 2/3 of the population. The Muslims outnumbered the Sikhs 10 to 1. That's Pathetic but only for the Muslims not for us.

I never said Muslims destroyed the temple. But before the Jewish conquest of Jerusalem the Muslims restricted Jews from visiting even the western wall which is the last remnant of their ancient Temple. Now that the Jews are strong enough they reconquered Jerusalem and go to the Western wall unrestricted. When the Ottomans conquered Constantinople they forcibly converted the Hagia Sophia into an Islamic shrine. Ata Turk tried to undo this wrong but Erdogan reversed this and you like millions of Muslims support this. So using your logic you should have no problem with the Jewish reconquest of Jerusalem and when they rebuild their temple or even with the Hindus rebuilding the Ram Mandir at Ayodhya. I thank God I am born a Sikh. We never destroyed the religious shrines of others nor ever forcibly converted others to our religion.

Although I feel deep down we all expected this from Muslims and shouldn't feel surprised. But because of my interactions with Muslims I still give them benefit of doubt hoping that since this is the 21st century they might have also updated to this century from their mid evil period mindset. But I was wrong seeing them do this to the Hagia Sophia. It's just the sheer hypocrisy that is really shocking. On one hand they lament and cry as victims over Hindus building the Ram Mandir and Jews occupying Jerusalem and Temple Mount but shamelessly feel no qualm by turning Hagia Sophia into a Mosque. No one is a victim here. It's just Jiski Laathi Uski Bhains(ਜਿਸਕੀ ਲਾਠੀ ਉਸਕੀ ਭੈਂਸ) type of mindset at work here. When Muslims were strong enough they destroyed Ram Mandir in Ayodhya, turned Hagia Sophia into a a mosque. When other groups are strong enough they take it back and the Muslims play the victim card.

If you're going to pull this kind of crap after marriage, my advice, don't get married, it's not for you. Seriously. Don't. And advice to guys, be sure to make this kind of thing clear. Understandably, every relationship is different. And especially in the beginning of the marriage, the girl is going to want to talk more to parents, all cool. But that's where you draw the line. It's not about "regulating" what the girl does, but setting up boundaries in your marital life. If she doesn't understand this, Walk Away. We need strong women in the Panth. Not weak minded girls who feel the need to call their parents 3 times a day lol. What kind of example are they setting for their daughters? And why in the blue hell do parents keep calling their daughters after marriage on a daily basis? If you're going to do that, then don't marry off your daughter. Keep her at home. Seriously. If a guy was that attached to his parents, he's a "mummy's boy". The hypocrisy! Grow some balls people. Enough of this bull crap.

I will say again: ਭਸੌੜ ਨੂੰ ਜਪੀ ਜਾਉ।

Muslim Neighbour. As a Muslim how do you justify turning the most sacred shrine of the Orthodox Christians into a Masjid? If that is justifiable for you then why object to Jews reconquering Jerusalem and the the Masjid Al Aqsa from the Muslims? We all know it is just a matter of time before they rebuild their Temple there. When and if Muslims object the Jews will probably just cite how Muslims justify turning Hagia Sophia into a mosque so they did same

A lot of people who recently move to the UK often call their relatives back home several times a day, not quite sure why they do this. My mum rings our relatives in India like once a week or once every 2 weeks. But people who recently moved abroad call several times a day. My cousin from Punjab lived in the UK for 10 years and then moved back and he used to call his parents at least 3 times a day! and it usually would be the "hor phir, hor phir, hor phir" conversation. Most the time he would ring his family once we were out of the house, and he would end the call when we came back. I don't talk to my relatives in India on the phone because they talk to me like Im a 5 year old but then at the same time they tell me that they've found a girl for me. My thaiyee gets over melodramatic and tells me that when she hears my voice over the phone it feels like cool breeze going through her ear.

Interesting article I'v heard this before. “Only GurSikhs Had Anand Karaj Before the 1900” Says Elderly Grandmother Posted byDaily Sikh Updates October 11, 2016 “Only GurSikhs Had Anand Karaj Before the 1900” Says Elderly Grandmother Anand Karaj in the 1900s by Anonymous on Sikhnet Recently the Sikh marriage ceremony (Anand Karaj) has come under dispute when concerning couples professing different faiths, which has led to some controversy and conflict. Without going into too much detail of the recent events in the UK, where members of the Sikh community prevented an interfaith marriage from taking place in a Gurdwara, the Akal Takht, the spiritual abode of authority for Sikhs, has made it very transparent in the Sikh Rehat Maryada (Sikh Code of Conduct) that the Anand Karaj ceremony is only permitted for those professing the Sikh faith. And quite rightly so! If one does not wish to accept or practice the Sikh faith, then why would one want a Sikh marriage ceremony? What is intended to be a blissful union of two souls merely becomes a meaningless and ritualistic ceremony. For many years after the reign of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, the Sikh marriage rites became disoriented with conflicting practices, to the extent where a number of Sikhs were partaking in Hindu Vedic ceremonies to solemnise their marriage. In order to safeguard the sanctity of the Anand Karaj, a Sikh marriage act was officially passed in 1909, which established a legal binding of two people professing the Sikh faith. AnandKaraj This led me to go back to something my maternal grandmother mentioned regarding how Sikh marriages were performed in the early 1900s. It was a common practice for all marriages to be arranged and for girls, as young as seven years old to be engaged (my grandmother was nine years old!). Despite being engaged at such a young age, the girls would legally get married at 15 or 16 and for couples to meet for the very first time on their actual wedding day. My grandparents had a very simple, traditional Sikh wedding ceremony, which took place around the late 1920s-early 1930s (the exact year was never documented). My grandmother very interestingly pointed out, in order for the Anand Karaj to take place, the man had to take Amrit before the ceremony to profess his commitment to the Sikh faith and making a promise that he will maintain Sikh practices within his household. It was not necessary for women to take Amrit before marriage, which was something I could not quite completely understand nor could my grandmother explain why. Upon my grandfather taking Amrit, my grandparent’s marriage was sanctified by the Anand Karaj ceremony. The wedding ceremony took place in the ambrosial hours of the morning at around 4-5am, which was a practice that was maintained and continued from the times of the Sikh Gurus. Sadly this practice has now been lost. This prompted me to question my grandmother further; what if my grandfather did not choose to take Amrit or what if my grandfather had shorn hair but was born in a Sikh household, would they still be allowed to have an Anand Karaj ceremony? My grandmother made a very bold statement that no Sikh during the British Raj cut their hair; the Sikh identity was strongly intact. The cutting of the Kes became more apparent when Sikhs began to emigrate to the West in the 1950s and 60s, where they faced a backlash of discrimination and hostility towards them. For those who did not take Amrit before their marriage or where a Sikh daughter’s hand was given away in marriage into a Hindu household, the Anand Karaj ceremony was not permitted. As an alternative, the couple were offered an opportunity to sanctify their married life and seek the blessings from the Guru in the Gurdwara, where a Sukhmani Sahib or some other form of prayer and an Ardas were performed. Based upon my grandmother’s insight into Sikh marriages in the early 1900s, it is clearly evident that the Anand Karaj ceremony was led and performed for those professing the Sikh faith. Although there was a significant requirement for the male spouse to take Amrit before the marriage, this is not the case now as many Sikh marriages take place with or without either couple being Amritdhari. Inevitably, interfaith marriages will take place. Civil Service ceremonies are held inside many Sikh Gurdwaras around the world in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. If a couple wishes to have a marriage ceremony conducted inside a Gurdwara and seek the blessings from the Guru, then we should be able to offer them an alternative ceremony through a prayer and an Ardas. In spite of the times changing, Sikhs have and should continually maintain the sanctity of the Anand Karaj ceremony between two Sikhs, however to also offer an alternative solution for interfaith marriages.

Imagine wanting to be a part of Islamic history. Do we look like some Pakistanis to you? Now shooo, go back and kiss up to your Arab masters.

The lack of research is really showing ?????????

Exactly! Crying about discrimination of Muslims in India but don't they got their BRETHREN LOCKED UP IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS?

Dont forget the Chinese. They've got them all by the ba##s! Not ONE Muslim country stood up for the Uighur Muslims..and our Muslim brother is giving Khalsa lecture about taking pride in 'Indian brethern'...

ਜਨਕੋਪ੍ਰਭੁਸੰਗੇਅਸਨੇਹੁ॥ SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI -Ang 1308 ਗੁਰਕਾਸਬਦੁਰਖਵਾਰੇ॥ SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI -Ang 626 ਤਾਤੀਵਾਉਨਲਗਈਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮਸਰਣਾਈ॥ SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI -Ang 819

Karma will kick Turkey on the back side when the Kurds take their independence and break up that country.

They call it a "book" I'v had Punjabis call it a "book" honestly none of these people care, its just a fancy ceremony for them where they show of their outfits. When the bride walks in that's seen as her "moment" her "big moment" when all eyes are on her. They don't understand it in the slightest. I saw a video as the bride was walking into the diwan hall the groom stood up and started clapping for her, and the girls in the sangat were saying "awwww thats so cute, he stood up for her" fck off. these idiots just defeat the whole purpose and 5 months later they filing for divorce.

Half of the threads /posts in this site in recent months seems to be anti-Islamic/Islamophobia I understand history shows us it's extremely important to be wary , but should we not be focusing on ourselves, and positive messages related to our kaum instead ?

A lot of Turkish people themselves are saying its political. They saying he did it to cover up Turkeys collapsing economy and to get votes from the rural people. I wonder what will happen to the Christian murals in the church! The last time they made it into a mosque they covered them up! That's why they are damaged. They are the least sensitive to other peoples cultures, they have such a high superior complexity that everyone elses culture is worthy of destruction in their eyes.

Without going in to a personal mudslinging match, it might be more productive to set up separate threads for each topic (for example, paedophilia in Islam, Islamic culture, preservation (or lack thereof) of the quran etc.) and have an intellectual debate, with proofs etc. @MuslimNeighbour - would you be up for something like that?

Jo Amrit Ko Neer Kahe, Sikh Ki Poochhe Jaat. Kahe Gobind Singh; Nand Lal Ji, So Sikh Jampur Jaat. One who refers to Amrit as just water, or asks the caste of a Sikh. O Nand Lal, says Gobind Singh, that Sikh goes to hell.

If u try and stop her, guess what her next month's worth of conversation with peke is going to be on....?

This was a Church built by the Byzantines and then muslims made it into a mosque. It even has massive murals of Jesus in it, probably one of the most beautiful buildings ever. Christians there must feel voiceless and sad. oh well. The Christians had the dome way before the Muslims had it on their buildings, though many Muslims like to think they invented it.

I'm interested to know why they do havan too? People have been using fire in worship for 1000s of years, Native Americans, Zoroastrians, Pagans, Vedic traditions. Wouldn't be surprised if the cave people, who used to light fires with stones, whatever their beliefs were probably used fire too. As the only Singh in my family i get parents, uncles/aunts, cousins, neighbors asking me these of questions all the time! how the hell am i supposed to know! it's as if i all a sudden became an encyclopedia on Sikhi and have the answers for everything. A lady family friend came around once and asked me why people use instruments in Nagar kirtans? "i don't know" why do Sikhs in India do prabhat pheri? "i don't know" one i get asked often is why nihungs cut goats heads off "i don't know". My cousin came around yesterday and asked me "oh why did that nihung cut the police mans hand off" "i don't know" ! The worst is when some Singh does something stupid and theres a video being passed around, they all send me the video or ask me about it as if i have an answer or explanation for the stupidity, its as if your being held responsible for it! Even the ancient North Indian festival of Lohri has a fire in the center of it. I read how in the Vedic period they used to do fire sacrifices with horses! how barbaric is that!

The one thing that really gets to me about people's behaviour during an Anand Karaj is the complete lack of solemnity for as long as they're in the diwaan hall. There's no hushed voices or even an attempt at some semblance of humility. They talk as loudly as if they're standing or sitting in any old communal setting. The focus of the attendees is entirely on the bride and groom, which may sound silly, but I remember when Guru Granth Sahib Ji was the focal point of an Anand Karaj. Even Sehajdhari couples seemed to understand the gravity of that moment back in the day, but couples today swan into the hall as if they demand to be the centre of attention. I'm not an old fogey (yet) but I can only guess that the parents themselves have no idea of the behavioural standards expected in that particular scenario. It's like watching the gradual degradation of something precious and good. It's sad because some of us can still vividly recall a period when it wasn't like what it's become, and strangely it wasn't so long ago when that standard was mainstream. What's happened to us?

literally they got up from sangat and were married at amritvela after asa di vaar , so much kirpa .. langar then back to their homes . No fanfare even the clothes were normal suits nothing snazzy funny thing is those show off types are giving money hand over fist to the same musley who want them gone from the earth. Sikhi teaches that the boys family shouldn't improverise the girl's family , get married in the smallest group possible .But these idiots think that one day is so important that they should be poor for the rest of their lives , no doubt they will be divorced over money problems. we had simple ceremony and then langar after , bidaai from Gurdwara

How times have changed, now we have members of LGBTQ community trying to have Anand Karaj. When you break a rule for one, then there always will be another wanting you to break the rule for them.

If being lgbtq is hukm then using that line of thinking what prevents one to say pedophilia, incest relations, zoophilia, necrophilia and other weird paraphilia are also not hukm that some people are supposedly born with. You can then justify any and all weirdness and paaps under the garb of Hukm. Bani says Paap Bura Paapi Ko Piara. A Paapi loves to do Paap and to justify that paap he will do all sorts of mental gymnastics with religious concepts. You are accusing others of being influenced by colonialism but you are brainwashed by the modern SJW leftist way of thinking of the westers.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-23183102 BBC: 70% of British Pakistanis marry their 1st cousin in Bradford (All UK: 55%). 20% of child deaths in Redbridge were due to cousin parents https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4674136/The-British-Pakistani-women-marrying-COUSINS.html https://www.defendevropa.com/2017/news/inbreeding-pakistani-costing-billions/ Inbreeding Within the UK’s Pakistani Community; It’s Costing the NHS Billions Guess who are highest earning ethnicity UK ...and the lowest...We're paying for their sh##

His mum and dad are probably first cousins, and his grandparents too most likely. That might explain it?

your govt has no spine to punish kidnappers and return the girls to their families and because it is against the declaration that the conversion is invalid as it was done under duress , they show their true colours. The poor girl is stranded in refuges where their families cannot visit and they are still pressurised to return to their rapists. My izzat is between me and my Guru , who blessed My engagement, marriage and life in sikhi , it doesn't depend on the opinion of trashy mentality

See? Alcohol is so powerful even nihangs need fear of sangat to not overindulge. And u accept grihistis who are under so much pressure and stress and with no sangat to be able to handle alcohol all by themselves? Please realize that behangams (celibate, non-working such as Dera taksalis/nihangs and nanaksari babas) sikhs have a different maryada than grihistis who have jobs and kids to take care of. And also just cuz its historical doesnt mean its right. The british recorded nihangs drinking alcohol. Cuz it happened. Not cuz the nihangs were right in drinking it. Why do u think nihangs were kicked out of harmandir sahib? Singh sabha had evidence about how bad they were behaving. And they used that evidence to rile up ppl afainst the nihangs.

Yes, at the end of the amrit sanchar panj Singh will ask if their is anyone who hasn’t had a gurmukh naam karan or Anand karaj. Then those like you who haven’t had that sanscar will be blessed with a name from guru sahib. A couple from another religion that hasn’t had laavan can even have them done there and then.

I'm guessing OP is a young guy who's being hyped up by prophecies detailing the return or the emergence of a Sikh warrior to lead the Panth in 2020. I guess most of us have been there one time or another. I grew out of it after the 12th successive year of the leader of our little group convincing us that "this" year was finally when it was going to happen. We were young kids and we started to suspect we were being taken for a ride. ??