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Guru Nanak is the highest and greatest of all!!!

Gur Nanak jinn suniya pekhiya, te phir garbhaas na pariya re||

(Whoever has listened to Guru Nanak (listened to his updesh i.e. Gur Shabad) and whoever has attained darshan of Guru Nanak, has never come back to the womb of mother (i.e. has been relieved from this cycle of birth and death).




They were given limited power by vaaheguroo







guru prmysru eyku hY sB mih rihAw smwie ]

gur paramaesar eaek hai sabh mehi rehiaa samaae ||

The Guru and the Transcendent Lord are one and the same, pervading and permeating amongst all.

gur pwrbRhm eykY hI jwny ]2]

gur paarabreham eaekai hee jaanae ||2||

one sees the Guru and the Supreme Lord God as one and the same. ||2||

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oh my good lord in heaven

did you even read the dasam bani link that was provided rolleyes.gif

"The people on the whole considered them as separate ones, but there were few who recognized them as one and the same."

- http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?Action=Page&...=t&id=68194

go back, re-read some of the bani tuks posted, if you still dont agree, then GOD HELP YOU !!!!

** throws in the towel and walks outta this thread **

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<<< To say all the Gurus are God is going down the Hindu DEITY route where everyone or even everything is God. >>>

" Mann too jyote saroop hey, apna mool machaan "

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Guest peacemaker
To say all the Gurus are God is going down the Hindu DEITY route where everyone or even everything is God. Which Sikhi doesn’t follow.

If you follow the monotheism path, which is what Sikhi is, the Gurus again cant be God.

You're very confused!!!!! You were trying to confuse me yesterday too, but not today. God help you!

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To say all the Gurus are God is going down the Hindu DEITY route where everyone or even everything is God. Which Sikhi doesn’t follow.

If you follow the monotheism path, which is what Sikhi is, the Gurus again cant be God.

guru prmysru eyku hY sB mih rihAw smwie ]

gur paramaesar eaek hai sabh mehi rehiaa samaae ||

The Guru and the Transcendent Lord are one and the same, pervading and permeating amongst all.

If you believe in guru granth sahib jee as ur guru, it says in this tuk that vaaheguroo and guru are one = the same.

"gur paramaesar eaek hai"

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did anyone ever think that gurbani is discourse between the Gurus, and their mind? What about when kabeer ji says,

sMqw mwnau dUqw fwnau ieh kutvwrI myrI ]

sa(n)thaa maano dhoothaa ddaano eih kuttavaaree maeree ||

I honor and obey the Saints, and punish the wicked; this is my duty as God's police officer.

idvs rYin qyry pwau plosau kys cvr kir PyrI ]1]

dhivas rain thaerae paao paloso kaes chavar kar faeree ||1||

Day and night, I wash Your feet, Lord; I wave my hair as the chauree, to brush away the flies. ||1||

hm kUkr qyry drbwir ]

ham kookar thaerae dharabaar ||

I am a dog at Your Court, Lord.

Baukih AwgY bdnu pswir ]1] rhwau ]

bhoukehi aagai badhan pasaar ||1|| rehaao ||

I open my snout and bark before it. ||1||Pause||

Also, no-one has yet proved that any of the gurus fulfill moolmanter.

This concept that guru and vaheguru are the same.

nwnk pRBu pwieAw mY swcw nw kdy mrY n jweI ]4]1]3]

naanak prabh paaeiaa mai saachaa naa kadhae marai n jaaee ||4||1||3||

O Nanak, I have found my True Lord God, who never dies, and is not born. ||4||1||3||

How can Guruji say he has found his True Lord God, if he is God himself?

also in respect of

guru prmysru eyko jwxu ]

gur paramaesar eaeko jaan ||

Know that the Guru and the Transcendent Lord are One.

jo iqsu BwvY so prvwxu ]1] rhwau ]

jo this bhaavai so paravaan ||1|| rehaao ||

Whatever pleases Him is acceptable and approved. ||1||Pause||

Did it ever occur that the tukh can be translated as, the Guru is parmesar? ie, Know that God is Transcendent

and in respect of this shabad:

Gur Nanak jinn suniya pekhiya, te phir garbhaas na pariya re||

(Whoever has listened to Guru Nanak (listened to his updesh i.e. Gur Shabad) and whoever has attained darshan of Guru Nanak, has never come back to the womb of mother (i.e. has been relieved from this cycle of birth and death).

Bhai Kulbir Singh on tapoban website has posted a shabad discussing the concept of bisrams! (like a comma)

imagine the shabad above with commas,

gur, nanak jin suniya, pekhiya, te phir garbhaas na pariya re

God, nanak says (guruji is talkin to himself) who has seen you, heard you, they will escape the cycle of birth and death.

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Did the Gurus not become one with God?

Does that not make them the same?

We bow down to SGGSJ - the word of Guru, which makes SGGSJ the Guru - does that mean that the word of Guru Nanak Dev Ji and the rest of the Gurus is not the same as the word of God?

I am completely confused. grin.gif

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we are all god,

sabh gobind hai, gobind bin nahee ko-e

that is to say that our soul is of god, not this body.

as long as we exist on this plane, we are bound by life and death, by hunger, by thirst, we need to go the toilet, we get injured, bleed, we can die. (physical death).

the gurus were all subject to the same conditions!

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Guest SatwantBeantKehar

The festival of Divali is an important event for most of the South Asian community. For Hindus it represents the day when the mythological god King Rama came back to his capital after 12 years of exile. Rama’s subjects were so happy to see him that they lit divas (lamps) and set of firecrackers in honour of the event. Even today Hindus celebrate this event with great happiness and joy. On this day they worship fire and the goddess of wealth, Lakshmi. Sikhs on the other hand have their own Divali. Or do they?

For as long as I can remember, I’ve celebrated “Divali” with friends and family. All the books I had read about Sikhism that mentioned Divali said that Sikhs celebrate Divali for their own reasons. It seemed only logical that that was the case, since every Sikh I knew celebrated Divali.

So why do Sikhs celebrate Divali? When we look into most history books, we can gather that the reason that Divali is celebrated is as follows:

After the torture and death of Sri Guru Arjun Dev Ji, by the order of Jahangir (the emperor of India at the time), the Mogul administration started to become uneasy due to the sudden popularity of Sikhism. Chandu, an advisor of Jahangir, was the one who had suggested the torture of Sri Guru Arjun Dev Ji. He suddenly felt threatened at the popularity of the Sikhs and decided to advise the king to get rid of the next Guru of the Sikhs as well. Jahangir decided that this was a good idea and summoned Guru Hargobind Ji to his court where he had Guru Ji imprisoned in Gwalior fort where 52 innocent Hindu Princes were imprisoned as well. During imprisonment, the Guru noticed that all the princes were depressed and forlorn with their treatment in the jail and were in very unhealthy conditions. The Guru helped the princes regain their health and taught them spiritually. When the Guru was granted freedom, he refused to leave until he had gained the release of the 52 Hindu kings too. The emperor then said that all those princes that could hold on the Guru’s clothes would be liberated as well. Guru Ji had a special cloak made which had 52 strings sewed on it and each prince held on to a string. Thus all prisoners were freed. It was in this respect that Guru Hargobind became known as “Bandi Chor” or the Releaser of Prisoners. When Guru Ji reached Amritsar, it was Divali day and Sikhs celebrated the homecoming of the Guru by lighting diyas. To this day Sikhs celebrate Divali and in honour of Guru Hargobind Ji and his return.

So, it’s really quite simple. Sikhs do have their own Diwali … right? Maybe not.

A book written by Dr Harjinder Singh Dilgeer, contradicts the common idea of Sikhs having their own Divali.

Dilgeer says that there are many elements that lead towards the celebration of Divali by the Sikhs, the biggest of them being the reign of Maharajah Ranjit Singh. Before Ranjit Singh came into power, no Sikh actually celebrated Divali. In fact Guru Hargobind Sahib, after his release from Gwalior Fort prison, reached Amritsar on December 28, 1620 and not on Diwali day. It is true that, the Sikhs of Amritsar lighted earthen lamps on that day. But December 28, 1620 was not Diwali Day. No Sikh ever celebrated Diwali till the first decade of the nineteenth century. Ranjit Singh was a very fair ruler and a compassionate person who believed in equality of all people regardless of religion. This was his pride, but it also became his death. The Hindu ministers abused Ranjit Singh’s love for a secular state and used it to add brahmanical influence to the Sikh faith in order to destabilize it. In the end it was also them, who gave away Ranjit Singh’s empire to the British. It was only under the impact and influence of his Hindu advisors and ministers like Khushal Chand and Dhian Singh Dogra that Ranjit Singh began celebrating Diwali. The Brahmins convinced Ranjit Singh that when Guru Hargobind Sahib reached Amritsar after his release from Gwalior, it was Diwali day and the Sikhs lighted earthen lamps to celebrate it. Ranjit Singh, although being a great person, was illiterate and he did not know Sikh history and philosophy. Celebrating Divali then started to catch on. The Hindu Mahants (Managers) of Darbar Dahib also helped feed the fire by lighting candles at Darbar Sahib during Divali. Sant Singh, the main priest, was more of a Hindu than a Sikh and his influence was also great. A statue of mythological Hindu god, Ganesh, could be seen at the gate in front of his residence. These elements were successful in fooling the Sikhs to celebrate Diwali at Darbar Sahib. Thus the Sikh Divali came to be.

Now, one might ask, why did the Sikhs gather at Harmandir Sahib on Divali before Ranjit Singh’s time. For example, when Bhai Mani Singh celebrated Divali at Harmandir Sahib. The answer to this is really quite simple. During this time, the Sikhs were being hunted and they were being forced to live in jungles and hills. At that time there was only the Indian calendar and the two main festivals that attracted a crowd were Vaisakhi and Divali. At these times the Sikhs could gather and organize themselves without getting noticed as much as usual.

So, does this mean that Sikhs should stop the celebration of Divali? Well, the reality is that we don’t celebrate Divali — we celebrate Bandi Chor Divas. Whether it be with lights, shabads or remembrance, we should indeed do what we can to appreciate the sacrifices our Guru’s were always making for others.

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    • Anantanand of sangalwala dera did a huge sin of changing the bani of Sri chand ji. He changed the words 'Nanak Shah faqir' with 'sadhu udasi dheer'. Basically he dint like the word 'nanak'. Good sikh minded udasis call anantanand a dusht soul.
    • Can you translate that hindi for us ?   Suraj Parkash Granth also says that on Guru Sahib's return home, Baba Sri Chand asked Guru Sahib for a gift, and Guru Nanak Dev Ji asked what does he want?  Baba Sri Chand asked for the Udasi garments of Guru Sahib. The garments that Guru Nanak Dev Ji wore when Guru Ji went on their udasis. The original Udasi was Guru Nanak Dev Ji, and he gave and blessed Baba Sri Chand to continue this form of parchar.
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