Christmas

[Babbar Shere]

what does sacrifice have to do with neting? what are you sacrificing by celebrating xmas??

btw.. the ignorance comes in when we'll gladly take the days off work/school for these holidays, but then sit here and say that its against sikhi... thats what i'm talkin bout..

sacrific is the name of the game bro. not giving and getting presents is sacrifice.

and the ignorance you speak of is not true for all, but is for most, and i will not include personal reasons.

but why do we get days off? well jee, we live in their country, and they get to make the rules. we cant do anything about that. but do you see poeple getting days off in punjab over these holidays? no!

it just happens to be their coutry, their religion, their holidays. Days off from school or work is irellevent.

[Heera Singh]

what does sacrifice have to do with neting? what are you sacrificing by celebrating xmas??

btw.. the ignorance comes in when we'll gladly take the days off work/school for these holidays, but then sit here and say that its against sikhi... thats what i'm talkin bout..

sacrific is the name of the game bro. not giving and getting presents is sacrifice.

and the ignorance you speak of is not true for all, but is for most, and i will not include personal reasons.

but why do we get days off? well jee, we live in their country, and they get to make the rules. we cant do anything about that. but do you see poeple getting days off in punjab over these holidays? no!

it just happens to be their coutry, their religion, their holidays. Days off from school or work is irellevent.

i don't see how 'not giving/getting presents' is a sacrifice? yeah.. i's jus an excuse.. buh so wha? do u get presents on ur bday? and even if u don't, most people do... the point of xmas and presents is to be with family... thank God that you have time to spend with your family... and enjoy the holidays in Guru Nanak's Love... there's nothing anti-sikh about it...

btw... every single Sikh holiday, i get off if i want.. every baisakhi and gurpurab i've had off... all i have to do is tell my manager... and in canada and the USA they have HR LAWS that require workplaces to give a certain # of days during the year where people can take their own religious holidays... so all u gotta do is explain to them (preferably at the beginnin of the year, so they can make arrangements for ur replacement)...

[Babbar Shere]

i don't see how 'not giving/getting presents' is a sacrifice? yeah.. i's jus an excuse.. buh so wha? do u get presents on ur bday? and even if u don't, most people do... the point of xmas and presents is to be with family... thank God that you have time to spend with your family... and enjoy the holidays in Guru Nanak's Love... there's nothing anti-sikh about it...

btw... every single Sikh holiday, i get off if i want.. every baisakhi and gurpurab i've had off... all i have to do is tell my manager... and in canada and the USA they have HR LAWS that require workplaces to give a certain # of days during the year where people can take their own religious holidays... so all u gotta do is explain to them (preferably at the beginnin of the year, so they can make arrangements for ur replacement)...

omg!!!!

first you said the heartbreaking thing with kids not getting presents.

well then if the kids didnt get presents would be sacrifice. doing something would make you feel uncomfortable or in a tight spot is sacrifice. go back and read that my post agian.

and you tied ignoracne with being strict with religion.

then you tied accepting getting days off of work with ignorance.

my point is that like we have a choice for working on american/ canadian holidays man!! so your point of how we accept taking the days off work and school as being ingnorant, does not work out!!

[Heera Singh]

okay... I see i cannot get thru to you... i'm don here

Bless!

[Guest wallace singh]

u no quite a few gurdwarai put xmas decorations up

Yeah, I've noticed. We've got a silver and blue ball dangling from underneath the roof of the palki. Quite lovely *cough* ...

[Babbar Shere]

okay... I see i cannot get thru to you... i'm don here

Bless!

and i see i cannot get thru to you...i'm don here as well?

fateh ji

[Babbar Shere]

And, oh yeah, I got Christmas issues, too, but I'll get to them in another thread.

- ssa

this thread is about christmas. lets hear those issues......

Well, simply enough, it has to do with the wife's step-mother. She has decided, since my conversion, that only Christians should be receiving end of the year gifts, so I'm off the exchange. Mind you, they're still giving us their wish lists, of course.

The gifts aren't about recognizing the importance of the birth of the Christ. Christmas became secularized decades and decades and decades ago, and at this point it's about the survival of merchants and toy manufacturers. I have no issues with a secular exchange of presents, and the spirit of the Christmas season is wonderful -- in fact, I was saying only the other day, with no small sarcasm, that it's the one time of the year that everyone acts like an ideal Sikh.

Do I want a tree? No. The wife does, and I've told her that I have no issues with its presence, but that I won't be decorating it. That, to me, is symbolic of reverence for it and ties back into the whole Northern European St. Nicholas thing. Interestingly enough, the Christians co-opted the tree from the Pagans.

lol, funny situation. work things out with you wife i guess?

[Guest wallace singh]

And, oh yeah, I got Christmas issues, too, but I'll get to them in another thread.

- ssa

this thread is about christmas. lets hear those issues......

Well, simply enough, it has to do with the wife's step-mother. She has decided, since my conversion, that only Christians should be receiving end of the year gifts, so I'm off the exchange. Mind you, they're still giving us their wish lists, of course.

The gifts aren't about recognizing the importance of the birth of the Christ. Christmas became secularized decades and decades and decades ago, and at this point it's about the survival of merchants and toy manufacturers. I have no issues with a secular exchange of presents, and the spirit of the Christmas season is wonderful -- in fact, I was saying only the other day, with no small sarcasm, that it's the one time of the year that everyone acts like an ideal Sikh.

Do I want a tree? No. The wife does, and I've told her that I have no issues with its presence, but that I won't be decorating it. That, to me, is symbolic of reverence for it and ties back into the whole Northern European St. Nicholas thing. Interestingly enough, the Christians co-opted the tree from the Pagans.

lol, funny situation. work things out with you wife i guess?

Funny? I was quite hurt. This is supposed to be family. The wife and I have no issues now. Getting used to the requirements of kakkar wasn't easy for her, but she's incredibly supportive.

[Guest peacemaker]

Wallace, I was very sorry to read what you wrote and hope things work out for you. I would never laugh at that.

[buddasingh]

It is sad that young people are so ignorant about history which is always part of the present. We should be happy for people who sincerely celebrate anything because of their family history going back generations, even if the current holiday is quite off the mark. For many from non-Christmas backgrounds, Christmas becomes an emotional quandary.

Christmas’s promotion by larger society is a farce. It is pathetic that a holiday purports to be a “universal holiday” when it was, even if remotely, associated with a faith that believes and practices that disbelievers will go to hell.

The justification of blacks as animals in America was rooted in the Christmas doctrine. Those sisters and brothers are rightfully proud of MLK, but somehow many miss the boat on their “true meaning” of the holiday which was the culminated celebration of the domination, rape, murder and slavery of their people.

A world of western media and journalists are overlooking these points as their brains are placated by memories of a warm cozy fireplace and upcoming mall overdoses. For them “whitesness” in culture is their comfort zone and losing that dominance and status as representing the “universal” is threatening.

The fact that many non-Christians “celebrate” the remaining appendages of Christmas as “good will to all” shows a kowtowing to corporate agendas, a need to conform, and lack of intelligent, graceful confidence.

The fact that those claiming Sikhi fall in line is outrageous. Sikhs are mandated to hone their role in society to confidently challenge the status quo when necessary. Sikhs should be sharing and wishing joy to those who sincerely celebrate joy as part of their own upbringing and in their sincerity recognize that Christmas is no more universal than any other cultural celebration.

At the same time Sikhs should not hesitate to speak up gracefully about the continuing farce that “a western judeo-christian comfort zone is to be propped up by all”. Sikhs should intelligently teach and learn… even in the overwhelming face of mall hordes and images of warm starbuck lattes, and 3 weeks of good will to minorities.