Tarmalaey ?

[SaRpAnCh]

This is correct the way they do simran is from a hindu text,technique im not sure its a type of mantar that is what I was told by a respected elder,one Sikh who you may have seen at Southall Gurdwara got up and questioned this so called Bhai Saab infront of Sangat ,but no one backed him and his bezthi was done in front of the diwan,since then he was put to shame by all of swindon gangs followers,as of now he is no longer amritdhari and has drifted away from Sikhism,those of you who visit Singh Sabha Southall may have seen him doing seva there - big bloke 6 foot ,now hes shaved his head and given up due to tanuts from swindon bhai saab gang.

^^

SaRpAnCh ji could you please narrate to me when this event took place, what was actually asked as I regularly attend diwans at swindon and at the havlok gurdwara and to my own knowledge this has never occured, could you describe time/dates as well as what was asked. We want to walk with the gurus mat, if something here that has been stated did not happen this will go down as nindya, which in turn will cause us sajaa by vaheguru as we have read this.

Well the guy was apparently asking about what everyone else is asking?You know why the weird practices and so on,then he was told oh tu Sikh nahi and this and that,was in summer time

[kh@ls@]

In regard to the mahapurkh I cannot tell you who it was. They spoke to me in confidentiality, they did not give me permission to post their comments on the internet or to use their name. Hence why I just said 'a' mahapurkh

Also I don't want you to speak to any gursikhs that are of the same view as me what would bne the point in that. I want you to speak to an abhyassi gursikh who is not in any way affiliated with your group, but some who YOU trust. I only want you to do this to get an impartial opinion, on some of the more controversial issues at swindon. e.g

1) Cunvulsing, shaking having a fit, something to do with the tats whatever you want to call it.

2) Rejection of gusikhs who believe they are ready to take amrit and give their head to the guru.

3) lying down in Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Jee's presence with your feet facing towards maharaj.

[kh@ls@]

interesting. . .any1? now you have sum1 giving answers. why not pose questions at them?

lol.

My first question to Munjoth is why to this date has no one except for the tarmaleh experienced shaking etc. I don't want to hear 'bhai sahibs' explanation for it, I want to know why have other great gursikhs who have written about their journeys not experienced it? Or infact why have most people not even heard of it? Why does it only go on in the tarmala cult?

[munjoth]

Also if you challenge them to go and ask a real abiyassi gursikh about the what they are experiencing etc to see if its right, they simply say I don't need to because all our jugtis are from Guru Granth Sahib Jee.

^^You posed the challange kh@ls@ ji, as I only have 3 close veers that I started walking on this path with we all attend the swindon sangat and do abhyaas together, maybe you can give me some direction to this mahapurkh you were refering to or the gursikhs. As a mahapurkh is here to help the world and help take us out the bhav sagar yes? Gurbani says: poocho santo mera thakur kassa, ask those saintly beings how vaheguru is, ask them how do we meet this vaheguru. again gurbani says:"Kahaiy Nanak suno Santo katheo kath khanee." p-918 so guru ji has put the duty on those sants but now we ask guru ji where is a sant suppose to take us? and gurbani guru tells us: "Anhad banee poonji. Santan hath rakhee koonji." p-893 Please kh@ls@ ji I am a seeker of this anhad banee and guru ji has told me that his servants have the key to this wealth and they can guide me to it.

We will discuss 'shabad surat da mehal' later on, as this katha vichaar is long, all of this vichaar is available in sukhmani sahib. Okay so lets discuss this:

2) Rejection of gusikhs who believe they are ready to take amrit and give their head to the guru.

^^Gurbani guru tells us what guru ji asks from the seeker who wants this amrit, in anand sahib we read: DHUN MUN DHAN SAAB SOPAN GUR KO HUKAM MANYA PAEYA, guru ji says i want your dhan (body) mun (mind) and dhan - wealth, now what wealth is the guru talking about he is asking for our precious jewels, our swaas. Lets discuss how we obey his hukum, if the guru has asked for your body you will use it as he commands, if he tells you to do sewa you will do it as he commands, your mind, if the guru says i want you to not even have one thought today, you are to stay in the nijghar then for that period of time you wont even spend one breathe in this maya but stay in your true home saving each and every breathe, and every breathe you save in return we get naam.

Now if we ask our selves do we follow the hukum like this? Most of us have to say our mind doesnt even stop running for a second, how can we know when our guru is giving us hukum we dont even hear the gurus voice, we have never been to nijghar our true home so how can we save these precious jewels and exchange them for naam.

This is why first the punj say go and do abhyaas get to sant paad, as per gurbani this is sant paad: "Teh geet Naad akharay sanga. Oohan Bhagat karay Har ranga." p-739 so we can start to save these swaas, then the punj will give us the gift of amrit and the duty of the punj is as follows: So Gur Karo Jo Saach Dhrirh Akath Kathai Shabad Milai, give you darshan of saach, give you all the akath gyaan and attach you to the shabad. This is the event that took place at moga. So taking amrit is no joking matter if you don't meet the requirements as above how can you be given amrit, also how can we question the guru, punj and satguru (guru granth sahib ji) as requirements are clearly laid out

the shaking and lying down will be covered in the next post, please give me time as i confirm that what i am writing is in line with gurmat and i havent made a mistake as i am not 100% with explaining how we pass each element.

[munjoth]

My first question to Munjoth is why to this date has no one except for the tarmaleh experienced shaking etc. I don't want to hear 'bhai sahibs' explanation for it, I want to know why have other great gursikhs who have written about their journeys not experienced it? Or infact why have most people not even heard of it? Why does it only go on in the tarmala cult?

^^

bhai ajit singh doesn't explain anything own his own accord, all the akath katha is started by guru nanak dev ji and now gur ghadi is given to guru granth sahib ji and Gurbani we learn this akath katha, i won't be refering to other sikhs, nor bhai ajit singh as they are not the ones who started this akath katha. Everything here will be quoted with gurbani - no other source is required as our guru is the teacher who will help us meet god.

[kh@ls@]

Sorry but from the last post I didn't understand why people were rejected at the amrit sanchar could you please simplify it for me? If that was the question you were answering.

Just read your post above could you please quote gurbanee in reference to shaking/convulsing.

Also please give some sort of an explanation as to why no one else has ever heard of it. Are all other jathas giving wrong jugtis?

[swindonsangatmember]

kh@lsA – Jio In answer to your previous ramblings on this thread thus far, reflect on the following pankti

'dhun mein dhiaan, dhiaan mein jaania, gurmukh akath kahani'

This should give you food for thought regarding simran jugti's. Furthermore, in your post on the thread in the Gupt section you said that you would post your thoughts regarding Swindon after you had attended the divan and spoke to Bhai Sahib. However, as you stated yourself you didn't speak to Bhai Sahib but have proceeded to cuss him without any further consideration. Why? Your excuse about being intimidated is lame and weak.

SaRpAnCh Sahib - The guy who was supposedly dissed by Bhai Sahib at Havelock Road - give the correct and truthful facts not supposition or lies. I attended all the Haveloack Road divans and this situation did not take place. If it did then give the facts.

s1ngh –ni Bhai Sewa Singh Tarmala has never, ever, said that by doing simran you can have darshan of Guru Sahib. Consult the mp3's on simran.info for further information.

And now to the rest of you internet kharkoo's stop being hero’s on the internet if you have an issue or a grievance then take it up direct. Don't hide behind your pc screens and slag people off. If you have a valid point to make then please make it direct, Bhai Sahib's number is openly available if anybody wishes to speak with him. However, posts such as I spoke to my mahapursh and he said it’s a cult is just we laughable.

[kh@ls@]

Sorry but swindon sangat member apart from letting out a bit of steam you've achieved nothing.

If you want to contribute please address some of the issues raised.

Oh and when in doubt about something what is wrong with going to an elder more learned gursikh for advice?

[munjoth]

as mentioned before i am currently writing it up, as this katha i am not 100% familiar with - i must first reference about passing of the 5 elements as per sukhmani sahib, give me some time for this thank you.

with your reply to the rejection i am saying this

The Gurus requirements are as follows: DHUN MUN DHAN SAAB SOPAN GUR KO HUKAM MANYA PAEYA now if you read this the guru title is given to the punj yes? Now the guru here is saying that i want your DHUN (body) MUN (mind) and DHAN (wealth of breathes)

Now on a practical note the Punj at moga said that this DHUN now belongs to the guru and you use it to do sewa as the guru commands, this mind and breathe also belongs to the guru and how ever the guru commands it shall be used, if the guru tells you that you wont have one thought then you wont have one thought for the set amount of time. that is the requirement of the GURU, this title is given to the PUNJ PYARAI

Now i am saying if you have not gone to the dasam dwaar it is not possible to stop your thoughts because gurbani guru says so, if your vaasa is not in nijghar how can you obey this mahan hukum of the guru?? Because giving your mind and breathe to the guru when you yourself can't control your mind would mean = not obeying the guru (punjs) hukum. If this isnt clear then we'll explain it again.

[kh@ls@]

ok so just to confirm if you haven't opened your dasam duar you're not allowed to take amrit