No Human Guru. No Guru After Dhan Guru Granth Sahib Ji

[satpunga singh]

if u r referring to the quote from sarbloh granth, then you r gravely mistaken. this does not refer in any way to the belief of the kookay.

ok, after the first amrit sanchaar, guru gobind singh ji stopped referring to himself as the Guru. this was because the khalsa was also given the guruship. at the battle of chamkaur, the 5 piyaare orderedguru ji away to safety, because they were the khalsa at that point and therefore by the hukam of guru gobind singh ji, they were the guru.

i cannot recall the rest of the ang, so it will be easy for you to take this out of context. but this has absolutely nothing to do with a stand for pakhandi babe.

this is about GURU GRANTH and GURU PANTH.

[sikhwiki]

why is there a sudden fascination with naamdharis on this forum all of a sudden? Why are you naamdharis trying to prove your pakandi baba is right? If thats what you believe then good for you - stop wasting time with these silly pathetic threads

oh - wont be long before some singh soorma will wipe out this fake baba

fateh

As a Sikh I am using this thread to learn about Sikhi, about something I find quite confusing and conflicting to what I have read. I thought this was the power of the Sangat and thats why I have raised this topic.

SinghUnit, you have contributed 2 posts to this topic of no relevance, no knowledge and nothing of any help to any Sikh.

Please only add to this forum if you have anything related to Sikhi that you would like to share with the sangat not trouble making or narrow minded comments of no substence.

[apnepart2]

I posted this in a previous topic but got no reply so posted this...

"I always see people say 'you cannot marry someone who is not human' on these forums and everyday life, hell it's America, but cant find this quoted anywhere can someone tell me where this is written in SGGSji or anywhere else."

When I read SGGSji I feel that this is not the case, I cant read punjabi and rely on English translations and wonder whether im losing the meaning of the message in translation.

This is how she looks...she is granddaughter of Dhanno of Sholay fame... can a man marry her..what does sggs say about this. and please i need exact quote from sggs not some rehitnamae.

[sikhwiki]

"DvADAS ROOP SATGUR E KEYTH, DvADAS BHAN PRAGAT HAR SANTA"

Sri Sarbloh Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj, by Akaali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh Ji

This quote refers to the 12 Gurus of sikhi.

Patshaahi 1-10 Guru Nanak Dev Ji to Guru Gobind Singh Ji

Patshaahi 11 - Guru Granth Sahib Ji

Patshaahi 12 - Guru Khalsa

the spirtual form of the Guru is given to Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and the Physical form is given to the Khalsa.

Patshaahi 1-10 the spiritual and physical are already merged into 1.

now as the physical human form as the Khalsa, we have to merge with Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Thanks for this I appreciate you sharing this with us and backing up your words with text from our holy scriptures unlike some people on these forums (SinghUnit).

"DvADAS ROOP SATGUR E KEYTH, DvADAS BHAN PRAGAT HAR SANTA"

My Punjabi is not so good could you translate these words in english for me please, it would be good if you could print the whole paragraph of bani rather that just a sentence as this could give me a better context of the meaning.

Thanks again...

[geo]

I posted this in a previous topic but got no reply so posted as a topic itself...

"I always see people say 'NO HUMAN GURU. NO GURU AFTER DHAN GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI' on these forums but cant find this quoted anywhere can someone tell me where this is written in SGGSji or anywhere else."

When I read SGGSji I feel that this is not the case, I cant read punjabi and rely on English translations and wonder whether im losing the meaning of the message in translation.

i think the teachings say that there should be no human guru for sikhs.

But other faiths are allowed to have as many gurus as they wish, it is not for us to tell them how to worship.

[singhunit]

why is there a sudden fascination with naamdharis on this forum all of a sudden? Why are you naamdharis trying to prove your pakandi baba is right? If thats what you believe then good for you - stop wasting time with these silly pathetic threads

oh - wont be long before some singh soorma will wipe out this fake baba

fateh

As a Sikh I am using this thread to learn about Sikhi, about something I find quite confusing and conflicting to what I have read. I thought this was the power of the Sangat and thats why I have raised this topic.

SinghUnit, you have contributed 2 posts to this topic of no relevance, no knowledge and nothing of any help to any Sikh.

Please only add to this forum if you have anything related to Sikhi that you would like to share with the sangat not trouble making or narrow minded comments of no substence.

isnt it enough akal takht have issued a hukumnama on this?

[Harjeet.Singh]

One day Guru Amar Das ji was meditating on his platform. One of the legs from the platform, was starting to break and he was beginning to slip. His daughter Bibi Bhani ji, noticed this and put her hand in the way to level out the platform. When the Guru came out of his meditation, he saw this noble feat his daughter had done. Her hand was bleeding and it had splinters.

The guru said that it was uneccessary for her to do that. But she insisted, saying that she coudln't let anything happen to the Guru. Guru ji then said to Bibi Bhani ji any thing she would wanted Guruji would grant it for her. Bibi Bhani ji said she already has everything she needs, but the Guru insisted he grant her a blessing. So Bibi Bhani ji requested, that the Guruship, the lineage of all the next Guru's remain in her family.

She was married to Guru Ram Das, all the next set of Guru's where from Guru Ram Das's family.

Guru Arjun Dev ji, the son of Guru Ram das. Guru Hargobind the son of Guru Arjun Dev ji. Guru Har rai, the son of Guru Hargobind. Guru Har Krishan, son of Guru Har Rai. Guru Tegh Bahadur son, of Guru Hargobind also and Guru Gobind Singh was the son of Guru Tegh Bahadur.

However, all of Guru Gobind Singh ji's sons had died, they were martyred. So you see, if the Guruship has to stay within the family of Guru Ram Das, and all his descendants are now dead. Then there is no human to pass Guruship onto anyway. So that is more proof. If you still had any doubts. I think the only relatives left of Guru Gobind Singh ji were crooks and didn't deserve the Guruship. His sons were worthy but they died beforehand. So you see, the Guru can only be Siri Guru Granth Sahib. But that doesn't mean God still can't appear in human form. You can see the light of God through anybody.

[Bijla Singh]

However, all of Guru Gobind Singh ji's sons had died, they were martyred. So you see, if the Guruship has to stay within the family of Guru Ram Das, and all his descendants are now dead. Then there is no human to pass Guruship onto anyway. So that is more proof. If you still had any doubts. I think the only relatives left of Guru Gobind Singh ji were crooks and didn't deserve the Guruship.

So what you are saying is that Shabad Guru was given gurugaddi only because no human was left worthy enough to become a Guru? I find it insulting to Guru's family members whom you call "crooks" without presenting any evidence. Why not look at the fact that the He called Khalsa his own son. So the gaddi would've remained in the family anyways. Baba Deep Singh, Bhai Mani Singh and numerous other gursikhs were one with Guru Sahib but the main reason Guru Granth Sahib was given the gaddi is because Shabad has always been the Guru and there had never been a human Guru in Sikhi. Guru Amar Das Ji says that Gurbani is the Guru. Other Shabads also refer to Gurbani as the only Guru. Read Vaars of Bhai Gurdas Ji in which you will find at many places that Shabad is the Guru. In Vaar 24 Pauri 25, Bhai Sahib says that all six Gurus are one jot but Guru's moorat (form) is the Shabad not the human body. Since Sikhi started Shabad has been the true Guru. Guru Gobind Singh Ji continued this practice and passed the guruship to Gurbani. Khalsa is the true descendent of Guru Sahib.

On a side note, state names of relatives of Guru Gobind Singh Ji and provide evidence that they were "crooks".

ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਾਰੇ ॥ 982

ਸਬਦੁ ਗੁਰ ਪੀਰਾ ਗਹਿਰ ਗੰਭੀਰਾ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਜਗੁ ਬਉਰਾਨੰ ॥ 635

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਤਿ ਸਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਣਹੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਮੁਹਹੁ ਕਢਾਏ ॥ 308

ਗੁਰ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੁ ਹੈ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਵੇਲਾ॥ Bhai Gurdas Ji

[apnepart2]

But other faiths are allowed to have as many gurus as they wish, it is not for us to tell them how to worship

if they choose to worship sggs like an idol or degrade sggs to the level of some fake illiterate baba..then i think you know what is done, right?

But that doesn't mean God still can't appear in human form.

does God appear in the form of donkey, or zebra or snakes? why only human form, whatever happened to equality! sigh ! God shouldn't differentiate between species, isn't that speciesim? and has God ,by chance, ever appeared as a Khusra?

[Harjeet.Singh]

Oh no, not this again, words misunderstood and twisted. This always happens lol.

So what you are saying is that Shabad Guru was given gurugaddi only because no human was left worthy enough to become a Guru?

Guru is the bani, and bani is the Guru. Therefore Shabad Guru, was already the Guru. As it is on par with the human guru's. There was no difference between them and shabad guru. So he didn't pass on Guruship, but infact granted it status of the eternal living Guru. So he passed on Guruship to Adi Granth, but it kind of already was guru. Now that Guru Gobind Singh ji is dead, he cannot pass the Guruship to another human. Therefore the Guru remains SGGS. That is just further proof, of why SGGS is eternal guru, thats all im trying to say.

i was just trying to give further proof, that why Siri Guru Granth Sahib, can only be the Guru. Because of the promise of Guru Amar Das. Which was it can only be in their family and all their family is dead now. Guru Gobind Singh ji has passed on the Guruship to SGGS now, and he is dead too, (physicially.) So now there isn't even anyone in that family. To pass Guruship. He may of had relatives, but they were not worthy, so he passed on to SGGS, who really was already the Guru really. And since that is the case, Guru Gobind Singh, has passed Guruship to SGGS. Therefore he can't go back and change his decision. There are no humans in his family left to pass on to now. And it has to remain in his family. But SGGS, is exempt from that, as it is shabad Guru.

Of course i do not think SGGS was given guruship only because nobody else was worthy. That would mean, i think God is fallible. You really think i would think that? I know i know im dumb and say stupid things and everything, but of course im not going to diss God like that. That would mean im saying is plan went all wrong.

On a side note, state names of relatives of Guru Gobind Singh Ji and provide evidence that they were "crooks".

What i ment when i say they were crooks, is that they are law breakers, hence not perfect. They needed to be perfect in order to be worthy of Guruship, but they were not. Also i know you can say all the sants are family with Guru Ji spiritually. But I think the promise Guru Amar Das ji made to his daughter, ment it would be kept in her blood family. Obviously their spiritual family is ever expanding. But in this context it was used for blood family. All the worthy blood family have died. So it can be passed on to a human. And if there is a worthy blood relative now, then Guru Gobind Singh ji, has already passed away, so he can't exactly bestow Guruship to them now. Besides it was given To SGGS.

does God appear in the form of donkey, or zebra or snakes? why only human form, whatever happened to equality! sigh ! God shouldn't differentiate between species, isn't that speciesim? and has God ,by chance, ever appeared as a Khusra?

lol whats your problem. I never claimed God is limited to human. God is everywhere in everything, that is like the fundamental of our beliefs. Why you gotta play dumb for like that. The reason i mentioned "humans" is because this thread is about human gurus. Of course God can appear in any object, i never said he couldn't? So why are you trying to claim that is what i think? I only mentioned humans in the sentence, because this topic is to do with God being in a human.

Why not look at the fact that the He called Khalsa his own son. So the gaddi would've remained in the family anyways.

No that is spritual family. The promise was about blood family.

So what you are saying is that Shabad Guru was given gurugaddi only because no human was left worthy enough to become a Guru?

Well, when i think about it actually. If Guru ji's son's were still alive i see no reason why they would not be the next Guru. But God willed it to be this way. The human gurus have served their purpose, they now reside in SGGS, they haven't exactly left us. Guru ji's sons are a part of it to, as well as all the great Gursikhs like Baba deep Singh etc.

oh yeah, and of course there are other reasons aside from not having any worthy family. But i was just trying to give evidence of why there can't be any other human gurus. Because Guru ji said it has to remain in his family, but now there is no family. But shabad guru is not human. Do you see what im trying to say? Damn it, i feel i've said what i really feel is wrong. I hope you understand what im tryna say.