Dudley Gurdwara Update

[Guest Bloom]

THEY ARE JUST SAYING STUPID RUBBISH BECAUSE THEY KNOW PEOPLE ARE STUPID !!! WHAT NEXT !!! THEY HAVE TO CATER TO PAAP LUST AND OPEN A BROTHEL !?!?! OR THE DRUG ADDICTS NEED A PLACE TO DO DRUGS ?!?!? [Mod Edit] LETS BEGIN TO FIND A REALLY GOOD TEAM OF LAWYERS !!! LETS BEGIN THE FUND !!!

EVERYTHING THAT BELONGS TO GUROO FOR GUMAT ONLY !!!!! GURMAT ONLY !!!!! GURMAT ONLY !!!!!

PERIOD !!!!!

[Pyara 288]

The numbers I got in the text are 01384 253 054 (Gurudvaara) and 01384 826 080 (Hall). They won't get away by lying or trying to cover up what they are doing by splitting off the hall from the Gurudvaara. End of the day, it is the Guroo's money, not anyone elses. Therefore, no meat, alcohol or parties, please.

Waheguroo

I called the Gurdwara number and got through to someone who wouldn't tell me if he's part of the committee or the granthi. I asked him about the meat, sharab in the hall, to which he just kept on saying he's a "Guru Ka Sewak" and knows nothing. I asked him that if you are Guru Ji's sewak you should know about these bad things happening in your Gurdwara. He told me that he just does what sewa he's meant to do and that's it, he doesn't want to get involved in anything else.

It's an embarrassment that our community operate as sheep ignoring what happens and just carrying on with the status quo even if it's clearly against basic Sikh principle. No wonder we're in such a mess. People like this need to take responsibility and not hide behind a smokescreen of "humble sewa". It's because we have a collection of numb people who call themselves Sikhs but simply "cut & paste" their issues manipulating the truth to justify having to do nothing.

This man said to call back later and to speak to the main members of the committee (he mentioned the names but I guess the Committee's libel lawyers will hunt this post down and send a letter to sikhsangat admin threatening legal action for disclosing these names which are publically available anyway!).

[SinghWarrior 102]

We shouldn't be scared of libel law or be intimidated by the heavy hand of these committees trying to silence the truth. Libel law is only there to protect individuals against deliberate character assassination, malicious statements and lies written in bad faith, etc (well, this is in any case my take on the summary of libel law written on the Sahota Solicitors' website --> libel lawyers for the Dudley committee. Everyone should read it to know what their basic rights and obligations are).

As long as we don't do this, and we express our freedom of expression responsibly, their libel lawyers can't do nothing, as this is a matter of legitimate concern for the wider Sikh Sangat. Also, our individual experiences are showing that the Dudley committee are lying to cover their tracks.

Anyways, when I called yesterday, the person answering on the phone told me to call today as he said the President, Ajit Singh Sandhu, would be there during the day today --> note this sentence is not defamatory, as it's a FACT - this is what I was told.

It's sad that some Gursikhs have told me that they won't post on this thread as they fear being sued. Khalsa Ji, as long as we tell the truth and write in good faith, I think we have every right to express our concerns against the Beadbi being perpetrated by the Dudley committee.

[Pyara 288]

It's sad that some Gursikhs have told me that they won't post on this thread as they fear being sued. Khalsa Ji, as long as we tell the truth and write in good faith, I think we have every right to express our concerns against the Beadbi being perpetrated by the Dudley committee.

I gathered that too, thanks for giving some clarity on what libel law actually is.

I think 30 years of these types of committees using lawyer's letters to suppress members of the sangat who challenge them has simply made us into darpoks. I came across this joke once "What's the difference between a lawyer and a boxing referee?", Ans "A boxing referee doesn't get paid more for a longer fight." That I think sums up what some lawyers are about.

Anyway, called up the Gurdwara again and asked to speak to committee member Mr Darshan Atwal (who I was advised to call by the pervious man who picked up the Gurdwara phone). This person who now picked up the phone asked me why I am calling. I told him I wanted to speak to Mr Darshan Atwal regarding the Sikh Cultural Centre and this man said that meat and sharab has been served in the Sikh Centre for 20 years, why are "amritdharis" making an issue now, I asked him why he thought only "amritdharis" see this as an issue, he didn't reply and put the phone down on me. How very rude! I just wanted to have a courteous dialogue with Mr Darshan Atwal on the matter.

[Into the Light 149]

Anyway, called up the Gurdwara again and asked to speak to committee member Mr Darshan Atwal (who I was advised to call by the pervious man who picked up the Gurdwara phone). This person who now picked up the phone asked me why I am calling. I told him I wanted to speak to Mr Darshan Atwal regarding the Sikh Cultural Centre and this man said that meat and sharab has been served in the Sikh Centre for 20 years, why are "amritdharis" making an issue now, I asked him why he thought only "amritdharis" see this as an issue, he didn't reply and put the phone down on me. How very rude! I just wanted to have a courteous dialogue with Mr Darshan Atwal on the matter.

Now this is being made into an Amritdhari only instigated issue? All the non-amritdhari's i've asked including non-kesadahri, all agree meat and sharab on gurdwara owned premises is totally unacceptable!

i just called up now and the Granthi Singh informed me he didn't know anything and that it would be best i spoke to someone on the committee. When asked if can i speak to someone on the committe, he informed that theere wasn't anyone there and that as they was no Akhand Paath Sahib this weekend, it would be best if i tried calliig back on sunday as the whole committe would be present.

[SinghWarrior 102]

Finally managed to get through today after trying various times. A Granthi Singh answered the phone. He said that the committee members are now refusing to answer the phone. He said that many people had been calling all day.

It's positive that they have had many phone calls from Gursikhs who have love for their Guroo Jee, and are taking personal responsibility for trying to stop this Beadbi. We all need to step up and realise that this is, as Guroo Jee's Sikhs, our Faraj/duty to Guroo Jee.

We should keep calling so that they realise that they will not get away with using Guroo Jee's golak to subsidise their booze and meat fuelled parties. Sangat pressure here is clearly working.

The fact that they are not answering, to me, shows that they are ashamed of their actions, know what they are doing is against Gurmat, but because of their hunkaar, are willing to continue doing this. Very sad state of affairs that their ego is so big, that they can't even keep it in check on an issue so blasphemous as this.

[Balait_da_Sher 200]

I have to keep reminding my gurdwara committee members that gurdwara is not a business so it should not be run as one. Due to this false pride that committee has the sangat in my town was halved. After the split, we have had further arguments and now we have ended up in two parties again. Whilst every other religion go forward we seem to be taking a step backward. Why are we complicating things? The only rule of thumb here is that "Gurdwara donations should not be used for anything anti-gurmat". Why is that so difficult for committees such as Dudley gurdwara committees to comprehend? An alternative revenue stream simply makes potential donors think "These guys make plenty of money through the hall etc I dont need to bother giving dasvand". If more effort was put toward gurmat related activities, Gurdwara would make so much money that they wont even need to think about making money by investing donations.

I think, we all have discussed the satkaar issues as much as we can and we all know what is right and what is wrong. The next step in my opinion is to decide which of the following two is the lesser evil:

1) Allowing our Gurdwaras and Guruji to be used as an income source to generate funds which are then used toward anti-gurmat activities.

2) Shutting down such Gurdwaras/"Charities" if they continue their anti-gurmat activities.

I don't think the committees realise the power of social media yet even though recent protests in Egypt etc were social media site (twitter) driven. If 25% of the users on this forum complained to charity commission then where would such gurdwaras be?

[K Singh 82 54]

i too called the number - the guy who answered wouldn't give his name & said the pardhaan wasn't there but wanted to know why i was calling. He said i can ask him anything. When i asked him "Did the community centre have any connection with the Gurdwara" the gentlemen replied 'No'.

I then asked, "was sangats money used to fund the community hall"..he replied "People from Dudley donated whatever they wanted". I then asked "Was an announcement ever made from the stage in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee for any donations towards the cumminty centre"...he replied "No"...Then he slammed the phone down!

Why slam the phone down, i only asked some genuine question!?!

[Satkaar 108]

PLEASE FORWARD TO ALL YOUR SIKH CONTACTS TO CONTINUE RAISING AWARENESS

Press Release and Sangat Update - Dudley, UK

6 March 2011

www.satkaarcampaign.blogspot.com

GNSS Dudley Gurdwara Committee deliberately misinforms UK Sangat

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Since contact was first established with the GNSS Dudley Committee on 21 January 2011, it has become abundantly clear to the Satkaar Campaign's Sevadaars that the GNSS Dudley Committee have no interest in fulfilling their obligation, as caretakers of a Gurdwara Sahib, to comply with Gurmat Maryada. Rather than dealing with the issue by realising the severity of their mistake and committing to comply with Akaal Takhat Sahib's 2006 Sandesh, the GNSS Dudley Committee have embarked upon an operation to deliberately misinform the UK Sangat as to the ownership of the Sikh Cultural Centre. This extensive Sangat Update provides details and hard evidence of the ways in which the GNSS Dudley Committee have done this. This reaction by them should be a matter of extreme shame for them and their belligerent attitude has continually offended the UK Sikh Sangat.

After such campaign of misinformation, the GNSS Dudley Committee have now focussed their efforts to cover up the clear link between the Sikh Cultural Centre and the Gurdwara Sahib, and are seeking to separate the ownership of the Sikh Cultural Centre from the Gurdwara Sahib.

This proposed "solution" by the GNSS Dudley Committee is completely unacceptable to the UK Sangat because, notwithstanding any change in ownership, the hall still will have been funded by the Congregation's donations to the Gurdwara Sahib. Accordingly, this "solution" is still in breach of Akaal Takhat Sahib's 2006 Sandesh, and the UK Sangat remain united in their resolve to keep the Sikh Cultural Centre within the Gurdwara Estate. The only acceptable solution is that meat, alcohol and parties are no longer permitted at the Sikh Cultural Centre.

We repeat that the UK Sangat WILL peacefully protest whenever they learn that there is a party to be held at the Sikh Cultural Centre, whether it formally belongs to the Gurdwara Sahib (as it currently does) or whether it belongs to another Trust/Charity (as the GNSS Dudley Committee are proposing).

How did the GNSS Dudley Committee misinform the UK Sangat?

The ploys by the GNSS Dudley Committee and Trustees to misinform the UK Sangat have included, without limitation:

(1) denying that the Sikh Cultural Centre has anything to do with the Gurdwara (see Exhibit 1 - Article from Panjab Times, quoting General Secretary Jasbir Singh Rai);

Exhibit 1 - Punjab Times article (published 11/02/2011)

(2) claiming that the Sikh Cultural Centre belongs to the local Council (mentioned to various members of the UK Sangat over the telephone, and leading to the resignation of the only youth in the existing Dudley Committee - see his resignation letter attached as Exhibit 2); and

Exhibit 2 - Resignation letter (from sikhsangat.com discussion thread)

(3) removing the "Sikh Cultural Centre" signboard within a few weeks of receiving our letter (the attached picture in Exhibit 3 from Google Street View shows the hall with the signboard on; this signboard is no longer on the building)

Exhibit 3 - "Sikh Cultural Centre" signboard

Evidence of the Sikh Cultural Centre belonging to the Gurdwara Sahib

The fact that the Sikh Cultural Centre is owned, is a part of, and funded by, the Gurdwara Sahib, and hence bringing it within the jurisdiction of Akal Takhat Sahib's 2006 Sandesh, is evidenced by the following:

A) Title Deeds

The Title Deeds of the Sikh Cultural Centre show that it currently belongs to the Gurdwara Sahib and it is in the name of the seven trustees to whom the title of the Gurdwara Sahib is

vested (see Exhibit 4);

Exhibit 4 - Title deeds

B) Constitution of Gurdwara Sahib

The Constitution of the Gurdwara Sahib (see Exhibit 5) makes it clear that the management of the Gurdwara Sahib and the Sikh Cultural Centre are inexorably linked. Pursuant to clause 5 of the Constitution, the Executive Committee of the Gurdwara Sahib and Sangat have "ultimate control" of the Sikh Cultural Centre. Sadly, there is even an express provision which contemplates the usage of alcohol and parties at the Sikh Cultural Centre under the sub-section "Use" of clause 5 of the Constitution.

Exhibit 5 - Constitution

C) Charity Commission financial reports

The Charity Commission reports for the Gurdwara Sahib pool the accounts of the Gurdwara Sahib and Sikh Cultural Centre together under the same charity, and even show that the Gurdwara Sahib is subsidising the Sikh Cultural Centre, i.e., that Sangat money is being used on the Sikh Cultural Centre (see Exhibit 6, a link to the Charity Commission website, from which the Charity's accounts can be found:

http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/SHOWCHARITY/RegisterOfCharities/CharityWithoutPartB.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=502675&SubsidiaryNumber=0).

D) Gurdwara Sahib 2011 Calendar

The Gurdwara Sahib Calendar for 2011 represents the Gurdwara Sahib and the Sikh Cultural Centre together, confirming yet again the link between the Gurdwara

Sahib and the Sikh Cultural Centre (see Exhibit 7).

Exhibit 7 - 2011 calendar

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

[khalistan_zindabaad 234]

It maybe good if satkaar puts up a advert on TV highliting uk beadbis and telling uk commitees to refrain from booking meet sharaab partys to prevent protests and also highlighting the sandesh and above that the clear message by guru sahib. In this way we may prevent protests and there is no way that anyone can say they didnt know. Also send out in papers

[SinghWarrior 102]

As far as I know from what one of the Singhs from Satkaar told me, the Sandesh has already been sent by post to each and every Gurdwara in the UK, and the Campaign has already been covered by the Sikh Channel, Sikh TV, Punjab Times, Des Pardes, the BBC, Panjab Radio and Sunrise TV. How much more exposure of the Sandesh do these committees need before they get the message? They've already got no excuses. Anyways, it's clearly logical to children of a small age that Gurdwaras should not be promoting meat, alcohol and parties, but these committees, even though they know better, are only interested in fulfilling their manmat desires.

Another thing is (though I hope I'm wrong) people seem to be getting complacent and relying on Satkaar to sort these things out. It is each and every one of our's duty, as Guru's Sikhs, to ensure Satkaar. Not a pop at any one individual, but just a general point. We got to get the Satkaar agenda out there with the general sangat. If there is enough pressure on these committees, it will never need to come to a protest.

[TavPrasad Singh 60]

Dudley Gurdwara have felt the pressure from the sangat however they reacted to this by making up lies and attempts to deceit the UK Sikh Sangat. Looks like meat, alcohol and anti gurmat activities are they religion that the Dudley Gurdwara committee belong too, shame on them..

Come on Dudley Committeewale, save whatever little honour you have left and simply stop meat and alcohol being consumed at the Cultural Centre. This is an embarassment!

[singh211 12]

The evidence clearly shows that the community centre is owned by and inextricably linked to the Gurdwara notwithstanding what representatives of the Gurdwara committee have said. That they seek to mislead the sangat is not surprising as they have no answer to the charge that permitting the consumption of meat and alcohal on premises owned or linked to a Gurdwara is wrong so they attempt to divert the issue. They should even now recognise their obligations to the sangat and do the right thing.

[Satkaar 108]

Punjab Times article updating UK Sangat on Dudley Gurdwara Beadbi

Article published 10 March 2011, page 6.

[snippersingh 0]

WJKK WJKF,

I think we all need to support the satkaar Singhs and bibian. when ever we get a txt or hear about any Gurdwaras who are not running to the code we should all put our input by phoning and airing our views to the management. We most of the time sit back and complain that things are wrong but neva wana get involved ourselves, If we cannot set up a R4G or Stakaar group ourselves lets at least support the people who are taking steps to improve our gurdwaras.

We should all get involved in our local gurdwaras and committes and insure that things dont get to these stages before they errupt.

One thing i will say about Dudley Gurdwara is that the trustee named Piara Singh Purewal only became a trustee a few months and i have spoken to him many times and he agrees with the steps that are being taken but has stated that he has only been a trustee a few months but feels hurt that his name has been used as he only got involved into the gurdwara to make a change on the senior citizens side. He stated he is willing to sit down with Satkaar any time to to come to disscuss and to change what he can on his side.

I personally think we should approch all peoples on a one to one bassis to try to reslove any situation rather than losing support from people who might think and support our causes.

WJKK WJKF