GORAE doing guru sahibs beadbi (UK)

[Mkhalsa]

Puratan guru granth sahibs should be kept in a special museum that could be created just for them. where there are large beds with huge chananis and guru granth sahibs are there. Perhaps if someone wants to see, they can do parkash of saroops, or even have the saroops on manji sahibs like around in different rooms and perhaps a granthi singh that walks around and can do darshan of each for visitors etc..

that would be something..

i dont agree with burning.

i have heard that many sant deras are finding puratan saroops of guru sahib without raag mala and doing saskaar which is wrong. This has been going on for over 20 years I think. and this is exactly the kind of accusation that will go around if we do keep doing saskaar of puratan birs.

[Deep Singh]

that is exactly my point MKhalsa ji.

[V]

Am I the only one wondering why a Puratan 17th Centuray Saroop doesn't include Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib ji's Bani :T: :T: ?

I'd guess this saroops is Larrivaar?

These Saroops need to be preserved, as well as othe rPuratan Saroops in ONE PLACVE, only THEn can the issue about Raag Mala be solved, and proper Respect for Maharaj be kept

bhull chukik maaf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[amandeep]

All

It seems clear that the British Library had made a mistake but have been respectful and honest enough to correct it and then to apologise. Please can everyone on this board who contacted the BL write a short note to the Chief Exec etc and welcome this move.

I personally believe that it would be counterporductive to extend the issue to include the Dasm Granth in the display. One of the problems has been that this saroop has been displayed at the V&A in 1999. They did this follwing advise from the Bhai Mohinder Singh of Guru Nanak Nishkam Sevak Jatha in Birmingham who advised that there were no doctrinal problems in displaying this manuscript in an exhibition. Again, I dont agree with this advise but clearly we can send very mixed messages if the debate extends.

I think that it would be much more positive and proactive if we offered better advise on how to handle and keep Sikh objects and manuscripts. Clearly these big organisations are getting some pretty shoddy guidnace from certain quarters. If you fell you can help me draft something to send to museum please do drop me a line. It may mot change anything immediately but it will inevitably help in the long run and avoid these kinds of instances.

Once again, please can I ask everyone who complained to the BL to write a short note welcoming their decision.

Aman

[TavPrasad Singh]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Below is a response from Jeevan Deol about how Guru Maharaj is "stored" in the Library:

Vahiguruji ka Khalsa, Vahiguruji ki Fateh.

As far as I know, the copies of Sri Guru Granth Sahib at the British Library

are kept in a high-security environment with the appropriate standard of

temperature and humidity controls according to world-class standards for

preservation of manuscripts.

This is sadly not the case at all institutions, particularly for example in

India, where poor storage conditions and climate are very often putting the

preservation of our heritage--and indeed a scripture intended for all

humankind--at risk.

I know of very sad cases in major gurdwaras where old saroops have been kept

in sacks in the room used to store firewood for the langar or where they

receive so little attention and care that they are infested with ants.

I am sure that you would find these cases as sad and heart-breaking as I

have.

Yours,

Jeevan Deol

The removal of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is just the first step. As GurSa Singh has pointed out there the following issues to resolve:

1) Revoke Sri Dasam Granth Ji on "display" currently in the Library exhibition.

2) How many saroops of Guru Granth Sahib Ji & Sri Dasam Granth Ji does the British Library have?

3) Is the storage highlighted by Jeevan Deol satisfactory? What about daily prakash and maryada?

4) Put pressure for Guruji's saroops to be looked after by a UK Gurdwara which will give respect & allow Sikhs to have darshan (in accordance to BL's requirements).

Pressure from individuals will bring fruit and with Guruji's kirpa Sikhs will have darshan of historical Saroops of Guruji, currently kept in vaults at the Library.

Contact the following:

Chief-Executive@bl.uk (Lynne Brindley)

Jasleen.Kandhari@bl.uk

Graham.Shaw@bl.uk

also

hsr@asht.info (Harbinder Singh Rana - ASHT who organise these exhibitions in conjunction with BL)

Dhan Dhan Guru Granth Sahib Ji. GurFateh!

[GurSa Singh]

One of the problems has been that this saroop has been displayed at the V&A in 1999. They did this follwing advise from the Bhai Mohinder Singh of Guru Nanak Nishkam Sevak Jatha in Birmingham who advised that there were no doctrinal problems in displaying this manuscript in an exhibition. Again, I dont agree with this advise but clearly we can send very mixed messages if the debate extends.

I think that it would be much more positive and proactive if we offered better advise on how to handle and keep Sikh objects and manuscripts. Clearly these big organisations are getting some pretty shoddy guidnace from certain quarters. If you fell you can help me draft something to send to museum please do drop me a line. It may mot change anything immediately but it will inevitably help in the long run and avoid these kinds of instances.

Amandeep Veerji,

It still feels like it would be beadbi to GurBani if we let the museum display Sri Dasam Granth ji.

I don't understand why Bhai Sahib Mohinder Singh of Guru Nanak Nishkam Sevak Jatha advised that it would be OK to display Sri Dasam Granth ji in a glass cabinet in 1999. I am very upset by this, especially with Bhai Sahib being a major Sikh figure in the UK.

Regardless of what mistakes the Sikhs have made in the past, surely we must now fix it.

[sikhi]

Also Thanks to Waheguroo.net for all the help

[sikhi]

The first Picture

The Glass Box in the middle as Sri Guru Granth Sahib in it, on the left you can see a very old copy of Sri Dasam Granth jee.

Second Picture

Is close up of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee

[stopsingh]

One of the problems has been that this saroop has been displayed at the V&A in 1999. They did this follwing advise from the Bhai Mohinder Singh of Guru Nanak Nishkam Sevak Jatha in Birmingham who advised that there were no doctrinal problems in displaying this manuscript in an exhibition. Again, I dont agree with this advise but clearly we can send very mixed messages if the debate extends.

I think that it would be much more positive and proactive if we offered better advise on how to handle and keep Sikh objects and manuscripts. Clearly these big organisations are getting some pretty shoddy guidnace from certain quarters. If you fell you can help me draft something to send to museum please do drop me a line. It may mot change anything immediately but it will inevitably help in the long run and avoid these kinds of instances.

Amandeep Veerji,

It still feels like it would be beadbi to GurBani if we let the museum display Sri Dasam Granth ji.

I don't understand why Bhai Sahib Mohinder Singh of Guru Nanak Nishkam Sevak Jatha advised that it would be OK to display Sri Dasam Granth ji in a glas

s cabinet in 1999. I am very upset by this, especially with Bhai Sahib being a major Sikh figure in the UK.

Regardless of what mistakes the Sikhs have made in the past, surely we must now fix it.

Why not contact Bhai Mohinder Singh of Guru Nanak Nishkam Sevak Jatha in Birmingham and ask why he said it was OK and ask him if they are going to rectify the damage done through the gold plating of the Darbar Sahib.

We have lost countless manuscripts due to the ignorance and pindu attitude our so called leaders in India have. The SGPC should be doing something similar to preserve the historically important Guru Granth Sahibs in India but are happy consigning our heritage to the flames. Only a few weeks ago they bought 50 Guru Granth Sahib from Pakistan. There is the possibility that some of these could be very important handwritten Guru Granth Sahibs which have more than likely been consigned to the flames as the SGPC appears to be intent on destroying Sikh heritage.

It is all good demanding this of the British Museums but at least they have bothered to preserve these rare Guru Granth Sahibs. We really need to get on to the SGPC so they pull out the stops and stop destroying our heritage.

[TavPrasad Singh]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

We all must be agreed on the fact that Sri Dasam Granth cannot be "displayed" like this. Looking at the pictures it is personally offensive.

Whatever has been allowed in the past cannot be changed. Bhai Sahib advised V&A in 1999, that does not give the Library a life long permit to "display".

If it is about promoting religion then where else can Sikhism be better promoted than a Gurdwara where people will understand the whole concept how Sikhs worship Gurbani.

This saroop of Sri Dasam Granth includes some paintings of the Gurus. Its a promotion of art only.

We must continue the pressure on the British Library.