Why Are People Born Disabled?

[VanHelsingh]

Whilst UKLondonSikh makes some very valid points I'm a bit disturbed at the insistence of portraying all positive sakhis about our Gurus and their exploits as exaggerated, myth-making exercises by anti-Sikh forces.

I'm just reminded of that video by Mr. Ghagga I saw a few years back where he claimed 5th Paatshah suffered on the 'tavvi'. It's that kind of talk that disturbs me on a personal level. Obviously I don't need our Gurus to be superheroes but they had immeasurable kamaai (and the Gurbani they composed is testament to that), so I'd just be a bit wary about debunking any saakhiya which show our Gurus exhibiting their talents that came naturally to them, just because maybe there's some shortcoming in our understanding of these issues.

[Beginner]

Must say rebel, I believe uk London is absolutely wrong in his whole "lottery system" of things. That just would not be fair at all. Our God Is fair. He does not hold a lottery to determine how a child will be birthed IMO. It's much more than a role of the dice in my view. Gods plan is immaculate and takes into account all actions of our previous life is what I think. I would side with you, rebel, based on my knowledge, and totally say our karma determines our future and is the reason some are born disabled.

Oh and as for the sakhiya? Totally 100% believe they are true.

[RebelSingh]

Must say rebel, I believe uk London is absolutely wrong in his whole "lottery system" of things. That just would not be fair at all. Our God Is fair. He does not hold a lottery to determine how a child will be birthed IMO. It's much more than a role of the dice in my view. Gods plan is immaculate and takes into account all actions of our previous life is what I think. I would side with you, rebel, based on my knowledge, and totally say our karma determines our future and is the reason some are born disabled.

Oh and as for the sakhiya? Totally 100% believe they are true.

cheers bro, i duno wat 2 believ 2 b honest, im keepin my opinions open, so im not dismissin Uk London paajis claims or even wat i wrote. like i mentioned in my 1st post, ive never heard any1 ever discuss this, whether ppl r scared of upsettin ppl, i dont kno, but does any1 have any katha from a sant or quotes from gurbani or dasam granth etc

thanks for every1s input so far, we can all learnfrom/teach each other.

[mrsingh12]

wat u mean g? Of course I'm english man cant pull off this slang that I'm coming out with if he's fresh lmao, what crap you chatting don? Joke, nah I dno man I think it has to with the actions of the past life. Are we really saying kabaabi, sharabi, adultery committed "sikh" will merge with Waheguru. I think not. So the soul reincarnates. But then Sikhism doesn't believe in a physical place called hell so the new soul must carry the penalty of it's past actions? Thats how I see but, like you g, I know very little about in-depth Gurmat philosophy of Sikhi

[RebelSingh]

Lol bro, note taken. i only asked coz sumtimes i speak wit ppl on here thinkin dey r angreji, only for em 2 b canadians or yanks.

[Sherdil]

I agree with UKLondonSikh ji. Every saakhi you hear isn't real. Honestly, I've never heard of the saakhi that Rebel bhaji has mentioned. Yes Guru Sahiban were very enlightened people, but let's not get carried away.

God isn't fair. Good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people. All the people who died in the Japan tsunami weren't moorakhs.

[Guest dasguruka]

WJKK WJKF

hey guys ive always wondered y ppl r born disabled? ive never really seen this question ever asked, even when there is a topic on disability, no one has asked this question, i believe. All uk sikhs, particularly football fans may remember, former england football coach glenn hoddle, gettin sacked from his job for sayin that, he believes ppl r born disabled, coz of their wrong actions from their past lives. The media i remember was in uproar at this comment, and he subsequently lost his prestigious/lucrative job.

this is his actual comment from an interview:

"My beliefs have evolved in the last eight or nine years, that the spirit has to come back again, that is nothing new, that has been around for thousands of years. You have to come back to learn and face some of the things you have done, good and bad. There are too many injustices around."

"You and I have been physically given two hands and two legs and half-decent brains. Some people have not been born like that for a reason. The karma is working from another lifetime. I have nothing to hide about that. It is not only people with disabilities. What you sow, you have to reap."

"You have to look at things that happened in your life and ask why. It comes around."

In my opinion, Im not a brilliant sikh, but i do know, that all crimes/goodness a person commits in his lifetime, carries over into the next, coz it is ur soul which is everpresent, not ur physical body, right? the only thing from this is, r ppl born disabled as a pnishment, or is it pure lottery? When this story broke, these goreh were horrified wen he came out with these comments, i though reckon, if he had sed this, in asia, no one wudda battered an eyelid, jus these abrahamic folks.

So wat duz sikhi say bowt this? Why are disabled ppl born disabled? and is wat glenn hoddle sayin, in accordance with dharmic religions (sikhi,hindu & buddhism)?

http://news.bbc.co.u...ball/270194.stm

thank u.

A Granthi Singh and I were talking and he brought this up. He said its due to the sins they had done in their past lives. And that this could be a great seva to help them out or feed them. We were talking about people on the streets in Punjab and throughout India who have no place to go and were born without limbs.

[JaskaranS]

I have heard the sakhis rebelsingh mentioned alot of times.Here is a link to a movie about one of them......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7yTLvYKDZg&feature=related

i hope its wat he was talin bout lol :biggrin2:

[UKLondonSikh]

Kaljugi = I'm a bit disturbed at the insistence of portraying all positive sakhis about our Gurus and their exploits as exaggerated, myth-making exercises by anti-Sikh forces.

UK = Kaljugi Paji i think you've slightly misconstrued the direction and extent of the point. All the positive stories about our Guru's which are in line with the philosophy of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj and don't imply miracles ... then no Sikh can possibly have a problem with those.

UK = The problem mainly arises when miracles are injected into the Sakhi's as a way of somehow "competing" with the various well documented famous miracles of the Hindu's, Muslims and Christians.

UK = Sikh ik vakhri Qaum ne.

UK = Guru Sahib were explicitly clear that they did not do miracles ... unlike Jesus (who was born to a virgin mother and was resurrected apparently) ... and Muhammad who according to the Quran flew on a magic horse all the way from Mecca to Jerusalem via Allah's personal palace over at 29 Acacia Avenue aka Jannat/Heaven where he even got to see the throne Allah sits on ... similarly Krishna was born miraculously in the same way as Jesus (to his mother Devaki) ... and apparently when Krishna yawned the whole Universe could be seen inside his mouth as if it was a mini-tv picture of the entire galaxy. I mean can you even begin to compete with the above Kaljugi Paji? :-)

UK = But even though it's plainly obvious that all these miracles of the Christians, Hindu's + Muslims are pretty ridiculous and blatantly false, we get our own folks thinking that it is somehow big or clever to copy the Christians, Hindu's and Muslims and start fabricating or accepting so-called miracles of our own when Guru Sahib expressly forbade miracles. Guru Arjan Dev Ji Maharaj and Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji Maharaj's shaheed-iah alone should have made the matter crystal clear enough for us to put it beyond debate.

UK = And the same thing about brainlessly copying the Christians, Hindu's and Muslims can be seen from the Gurdware we are constructing nowadays. Instead of constructing the most humble structure sufficient for the local Sangat we try to match the bling that is evident in various flash Churches, Mandirs and Mosques ... when the money saved from building extravagant structures would be better spent according to Guru Sahib on helping the poor and downtrodden globally.

Kaljugi = I'm just reminded of that video by Mr. Ghagga I saw a few years back where he claimed 5th Paatshah suffered on the 'tavvi'. It's that kind of talk that disturbs me on a personal level. Obviously I don't need our Gurus to be superheroes but they had immeasurable kamaai (and the Gurbani they composed is testament to that), so I'd just be a bit wary about debunking any saakhiya which show our Gurus exhibiting their talents that came naturally to them, just because maybe there's some shortcoming in our understanding of these issues.

UK = Paji, i don't think Ghagga Sahib has ever said that Guru Arjan Dev Ji Maharaj did not have immeasurable kamaai. I haven't heard what he might have said but I would hazard a guess that he was saying that this was how high the Highest of the High were - imagine how great our Guru Sahib was that despite the torture of being on a thathee thavee their focus remained steadfast upon ParmAathma despite the obvious physical effects.

UK = The reason people hate Ghagga Sahib is because he disagrees with the whole Dusht Daman + Durga Mata stuff etc. Christians, Muslims and Hindu's are famous for their pilgrimages whereby simply for going to a certain location they get extra rewards. Ghagga Sahib opposes that and with others has put the point that for a Sikh whether a Gurdwara is in London, Thailand or Bihar all three are sacred locations due to the presence of our Sri Guri Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. Similarly just because Krishna was born in a royal family of Yadava Kings, Muhammad was born into the elite richest caste of Brahmins from Mecca (the Qureshi caste) that looked after the sacred black stone called the Kaaba and Jesus of course was a royal descendent of King David ... in contrast Ghagga Sahib has denied the false genealogy attributed to our Guru Sahib being (allegedly) descended from the Hindu God in human form also known as Ram Chander as stated in today's so-called DG.

Beginner = Must say rebel, I believe uk London is absolutely wrong in his whole "lottery system" of things. That just would not be fair at all. Our God Is fair. He does not hold a lottery to determine how a child will be birthed IMO. It's much more than a role of the dice in my view. Gods plan is immaculate and takes into account all actions of our previous life is what I think. I would side with you, rebel, based on my knowledge, and totally say our karma determines our future and is the reason some are born disabled.

UK = Beginner Paji, nowhere did I mention that God is in some room, spinning a roulette wheel, deciding if children will be born disabled. That is what the Abrahamic faiths say. Christians, Jews and Muslims believe God sits in his palace and decides on the individual fate and individual health of each child being born into the World. For example, they think Yashu Masih's Dad (who is the same as Yashu and Allah apparently) allegedly decides that Beginner Singh Canadian will be born into the world at the time whenever you were and will die at the exact time Yashu Masih has written in his diary and will suffer in life and end up rich or poor according to what God decides will be your fate.

UK = In contrast, i made it clear that the lottery of health is a natural one (which as Sherdil Paji correctly pointed out is correlated to various wordly factors). Beginner Paji ask yourself this: why is there a marked correlation between the darker the skin of a human being and the greater the general level of suffering experienced by those human beings? Are you seriously telling me that the white Americans who consume the highest levels of alcohol, commit the most adultery and enjoy as much drugs on a per capita basis as anybody else have prayed the most in their previous lives whilst the poor gareeb folks from India and Africa who do nobody any harm and live a humble shareef way deserved their lot because they must have done a lot of bad crimes in their past life?

Beginner = Oh and as for the sakhiya? Totally 100% believe they are true.

UK = Beginner Paji if you believe that KPS Gill and the Radha Saomi's Living Guru "Dhillon Jatt" as he likes to call himself were both Mughal soldiers in their last life then that's fine - it's totally your perogative to believe that :-)

[Beginner]

Kaljugi = I'm a bit disturbed at the insistence of portraying all positive sakhis about our Gurus and their exploits as exaggerated, myth-making exercises by anti-Sikh forces.

UK = Kaljugi Paji i think you've slightly misconstrued the direction and extent of the point. All the positive stories about our Guru's which are in line with the philosophy of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj and don't imply miracles ... then no Sikh can possibly have a problem with those.

UK = The problem mainly arises when miracles are injected into the Sakhi's as a way of somehow "competing" with the various well documented famous miracles of the Hindu's, Muslims and Christians.

UK = Sikh ik vakhri Qaum ne.

UK = Guru Sahib were explicitly clear that they did not do miracles ... unlike Jesus (who was born to a virgin mother and was resurrected apparently) ... and Muhammad who according to the Quran flew on a magic horse all the way from Mecca to Jerusalem via Allah's personal palace over at 29 Acacia Avenue aka Jannat/Heaven where he even got to see the throne Allah sits on ... similarly Krishna was born miraculously in the same way as Jesus (to his mother Devaki) ... and apparently when Krishna yawned the whole Universe could be seen inside his mouth as if it was a mini-tv picture of the entire galaxy. I mean can you even begin to compete with the above Kaljugi Paji? :-)

UK = But even though it's plainly obvious that all these miracles of the Christians, Hindu's + Muslims are pretty ridiculous and blatantly false, we get our own folks thinking that it is somehow big or clever to copy the Christians, Hindu's and Muslims and start fabricating or accepting so-called miracles of our own when Guru Sahib expressly forbade miracles. Guru Arjan Dev Ji Maharaj and Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji Maharaj's shaheed-iah alone should have made the matter crystal clear enough for us to put it beyond debate.

UK = And the same thing about brainlessly copying the Christians, Hindu's and Muslims can be seen from the Gurdware we are constructing nowadays. Instead of constructing the most humble structure sufficient for the local Sangat we try to match the bling that is evident in various flash Churches, Mandirs and Mosques ... when the money saved from building extravagant structures would be better spent according to Guru Sahib on helping the poor and downtrodden globally.

Kaljugi = I'm just reminded of that video by Mr. Ghagga I saw a few years back where he claimed 5th Paatshah suffered on the 'tavvi'. It's that kind of talk that disturbs me on a personal level. Obviously I don't need our Gurus to be superheroes but they had immeasurable kamaai (and the Gurbani they composed is testament to that), so I'd just be a bit wary about debunking any saakhiya which show our Gurus exhibiting their talents that came naturally to them, just because maybe there's some shortcoming in our understanding of these issues.

UK = Paji, i don't think Ghagga Sahib has ever said that Guru Arjan Dev Ji Maharaj did not have immeasurable kamaai. I haven't heard what he might have said but I would hazard a guess that he was saying that this was how high the Highest of the High were - imagine how great our Guru Sahib was that despite the torture of being on a thathee thavee their focus remained steadfast upon ParmAathma despite the obvious physical effects.

UK = The reason people hate Ghagga Sahib is because he disagrees with the whole Dusht Daman + Durga Mata stuff etc. Christians, Muslims and Hindu's are famous for their pilgrimages whereby simply for going to a certain location they get extra rewards. Ghagga Sahib opposes that and with others has put the point that for a Sikh whether a Gurdwara is in London, Thailand or Bihar all three are sacred locations due to the presence of our Sri Guri Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. Similarly just because Krishna was born in a royal family of Yadava Kings, Muhammad was born into the elite richest caste of Brahmins from Mecca (the Qureshi caste) that looked after the sacred black stone called the Kaaba and Jesus of course was a royal descendent of King David ... in contrast Ghagga Sahib has denied the false genealogy attributed to our Guru Sahib being (allegedly) descended from the Hindu God in human form also known as Raam Chander as stated in today's so-called DG.

Beginner = Must say rebel, I believe uk London is absolutely wrong in his whole "lottery system" of things. That just would not be fair at all. Our God Is fair. He does not hold a lottery to determine how a child will be birthed IMO. It's much more than a role of the dice in my view. Gods plan is immaculate and takes into account all actions of our previous life is what I think. I would side with you, rebel, based on my knowledge, and totally say our karma determines our future and is the reason some are born disabled.

UK = Beginner Paji, nowhere did I mention that God is in some room, spinning a roulette wheel, deciding if children will be born disabled. That is what the Abrahamic faiths say. Christians, Jews and Muslims believe God sits in his palace and decides on the individual fate and individual health of each child being born into the World. For example, they think Yashu Masih's Dad (who is the same as Yashu and Allah apparently) allegedly decides that Beginner Singh Canadian will be born into the world at the time whenever you were and will die at the exact time Yashu Masih has written in his diary and will suffer in life and end up rich or poor according to what God decides will be your fate.

UK = In contrast, i made it clear that the lottery of health is a natural one (which as Sherdil Paji correctly pointed out is correlated to various wordly factors). Beginner Paji ask yourself this: why is there a marked correlation between the darker the skin of a human being and the greater the general level of suffering experienced by those human beings? Are you seriously telling me that the white Americans who consume the highest levels of alcohol, commit the most adultery and enjoy as much drugs on a per capita basis as anybody else have prayed the most in their previous lives whilst the poor gareeb folks from India and Africa who do nobody any harm and live a humble shareef way deserved their lot because they must have done a lot of bad crimes in their past life?

Beginner = Oh and as for the sakhiya? Totally 100% believe they are true.

UK = Beginner Paji If you believe that KPS Gill and the Radha Saomi's Living Guru "Dhillon Jatt" as he likes to call himself were both Mughal soldiers in their last life then that's fine - it's totally your perogative to believe that :-)

When did I say to beocme a Sikh u must've been a mughal? LOL, and you said this on the first page : "It's just the lottery of nature." That implies nature determines some things, which would mean it's a semi-diety under God. That can't be, it has to be under God's control,, so there cant be randomness, and hence, no lottery.

You also said : Are you seriously telling me that the white Americans who consume the highest levels of alcohol, commit the most adultery and enjoy as much drugs on a per capita basis as anybody else have prayed the most in their previous lives whilst the poor gareeb folks from India and Africa who do nobody any harm and live a humble shareef way deserved their lot because they must have done a lot of bad crimes in their past life? Uhhhh,yea, I'm saying it is certainly possible bro , regarding the white americans, and as for people suffering in Africa? Their colour of skin IMO is of no importancee as it doesnt matter, but tthey reaped what they sow. You think God just punishes people randomly? They did things, those that are starving, and now they reeap the rewards of it.

and Guru Ji did not suffer on the 'taavi'...

anywyas, my two cents, there they are. below is a defintive answer:

ਅਮੁਲੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਅਮੁਲੁ ਦੀਬਾਣੁ ॥

Amul Dhharam Amul Dheebaan ||

अमुलु धरमु अमुलु दीबाणु ॥

Priceless is the Divine Law of Dharma, Priceless is the Divine Court of Justice.

5 ਜਪੁ (ਮ: ੧) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੫ ਪੰ. ੧੭

Jap Guru Nanak Dev Ang:5 Line: 17