Balanced View of Hindu-Sikh Shaster Vidiya

[chatanga]

If anyone goes to India please take a camcorder with you and personally sit down with the Nihang jathedars and film proper interviews , where you can hear the questions put to them and hear their replies. Make the videos and put them on Youtube for all to see.

Also with the appaarent lineage of Shastar Vidiya on this thread, it's no good posting a picture of a chart with no references. You need to reveal who your researchers are, who they spoke to to verify the lineage, show historical documaentation to back up the lienage books, artwork, record interviews with the persons involved in providing evidence for the lineage etc..

Without this sort of proof or clear cut evidence, no-one can conclusively prove anything your saying. So in effect it's no better or any more true than Niddar SInghs claims. The truth is always the truth regardless..so if you want to uncover the truth and present it to the public at large then present in a manner where it's backed up with evidence, videos etc... A randon lineage chart, and a piece of paper with some signatures of some claimed Nihang jathebandis is not admissable as proof without proper backing..

Bro, i totally agreee with you abgout this, but the above recommendations are totally whay NNS relies on to prove his take on Sikhi.

Have you asked the same of any of the Sanatan crew?

And dont give me any " im not connected with him " stuff, as i am in no way connected to NNS or to this Taran guy either, but i just have the acumen to apply the same standards to each group.

[proactive]

Let's be honest here. Do people really need videos of Nihangs criticising Niddar in order to realise that his so-called martial art as well as his karate kid story is a load of BS? If you believe his story then as the expression goes, I have a bridge for sale for you!

These videos even if they are made will not make a difference to his die hard supporters. They will claim the voice has been doctored, the video has been edited, there is no proof when it was made etc etc. Honestly, if Niddar told his followers tomorrow." Listen guys, I made all this BS up, there is no secret martial art, my mother was too scared to let me out of house in the 80s let alone train with a Nihang Baba. I just copied the karate kid story and when you bozos believed every ridiculous shyt I made up, I had to make more and more BS up." I bet his followers would not believe him. This is what happens in cults like Niddar's cult. In the end the cult leader can make up and say as much BS and his sheep like followers will lap it all up.

[Cisco_Singh]

Let's be honest here. Do people really need videos of Nihangs criticising Niddar in order to realise that his so-called martial art as well as his karate kid story is a load of BS? If you believe his story then as the expression goes, I have a bridge for sale for you!

These videos even if they are made will not make a difference to his die hard supporters. They will claim the voice has been doctored, the video has been edited, there is no proof when it was made etc etc. Honestly, if Niddar told his followers tomorrow." Listen guys, I made all this BS up, there is no secret martial art, my mother was too scared to let me out of house in the 80s let alone train with a Nihang Baba. I just copied the karate kid story and when you bozos believed every ridiculous shyt I made up, I had to make more and more BS up." I bet his followers would not believe him. This is what happens in cults like Niddar's cult. In the end the cult leader can make up and say as much BS and his sheep like followers will lap it all up.

It's not about NNS's die hard supporters...they have already made their minds up, no point trying to convince them. From a general prospective if you do not have evidence or proof of your claims then you cannot expect people just to take your word for it.

Nihang jathedars should have no issue with coming on video and giving their opinions on NNS infact it's probbaly in their benefit to get there views and messages out to the general sangat at large if they dont want to be associated with NNS.

The same goes for the lineage that was posted on this thread, you cant just produce something and say "oh a researcher went to India and made this chart"... I can make a chart as well and attach a story to it..and stick on the internet tommorow.

If you want to come as credible and claim to be presenting the truth then provide clearly backed evidence for your post..Otherwise your claims are no different than those of NNS's...

By the way the above does also apply to NNS and his followers as well, like many here I personally do not see the need to slander Shaheeds as he has done on some of his material..but the issues that AKJ and NNS is amongst themselves..I couldnt care less what tension they have between themselves.

What NNS is able to do is convince professional martial artists and those with knowledge of weaponry..that his art form is genuine..that it what gains him credibility, along with knowledge specific to indo persian weaponry and combat techniques. These people dont really care what some people on a website say..Theyre only concered that he's able to demonstrate proof of skills and techniques.

[Deletedkp]

Let's be honest here. Do people really need videos of Nihangs criticising Niddar in order to realise that his so-called martial art as well as his karate kid story is a load of BS? If you believe his story then as the expression goes, I have a bridge for sale for you!

These videos even if they are made will not make a difference to his die hard supporters. They will claim the voice has been doctored, the video has been edited, there is no proof when it was made etc etc. Honestly, if Niddar told his followers tomorrow." Listen guys, I made all this BS up, there is no secret martial art, my mother was too scared to let me out of house in the 80s let alone train with a Nihang Baba. I just copied the karate kid story and when you bozos believed every ridiculous shyt I made up, I had to make more and more BS up." I bet his followers would not believe him. This is what happens in cults like Niddar's cult. In the end the cult leader can make up and say as much BS and his sheep like followers will lap it all up. First

The martial art is not for criticism here. Regarding the martial art, Its very good and its has also been credited by many masters of different martial arts. He has appeared in martial arts magazines and even on discovery channel documentaries explaining the history of a Nihung warrior. You cannot say the martial art is fake and made up. If it is then he is one intelligent person. To create an art with so many different techniques and the philosophy supporting each technique.

End of the day, people on this forum will never understand the complexity of the art and the determination that is required. As mentioned in the earlier posts there are teachers in India teaching this art, how genuine is this claim I don't know.

[DalbirSingh]

Is niddar really worth all of this intense discussion, we have loads of cocos amongst our sikhs who claim and say all sorts of thing, why is niddar worth creating one of the longest threads on sikhsangat over? Is this discussion perhaps due to people somewhere deep down thinking perhaps he might be right about his views or is admirable? Perhaps Niddar has opened a stream for future sikh scholars to go down exploring, comparing sikh missionary work based around Max Arthur Macauliffe across with early british accounts of sikhs such as those of drinking bhang and conducting rituals which we see in prominent shivaism.

[taran0]

i agree dalbir, nidar is small fry, but I think its important that cults are very meticulously analysed and discussed - there is nothing wrong with discussion

it only becomes a problem when the cult members feel its getting a little too close to crashing the fantasy they are currently living within.

the thing I don't like is nidar doesn't operate within an OPEN FORUM, there is too much of a vacuum surrounding his parchaar

and he propagates this image for being fearless and being unbeaten in physical and intellectual combat which is clearly untrue.

his website has no feedback function or comments function wheras the www.sarbloh.com one has an open forum where I have allowed nidars students to reply and

a prime example I saw this video on youtube today and I posted the following comment which was immediately deleted,

this is a joke, half the time he just ignores the opponent and then at the pause does a move.... at

he turns his back to the opponent as he gets whacked in the head, at

he turns his back to the opponent again, calls it misalignment but in a streetfight head and neck would be taken, at

its just standard silat hubut (he does it exactly like in silat as I learnt from the same guys that taught nidar ). at

he cuts cut twice and stabbed then he just waits for the guy to stop and then just waves his knife around. I could go on.

where my comments not legitimate? but they delete them and hide any sign of them being challenged

Nidar is clearly just a demo man, and not a very good one

[taran0]

really good video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UiiUHFCkoZ0

[Singh559]

really good video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UiiUHFCkoZ0

Wow, i was just looking over this. His talk is inspired by Sam Harris's critical view of pseudo martial arts masters like Nidar.

Is niddar really worth all of this intense discussion, we have loads of cocos amongst our sikhs who claim and say all sorts of thing, why is niddar worth creating one of the longest threads on sikhsangat over? Is this discussion perhaps due to people somewhere deep down thinking perhaps he might be right about his views or is admirable? Perhaps Niddar has opened a stream for future sikh scholars to go down exploring, comparing sikh missionary work based around Max Arthur Macauliffe across with early british accounts of sikhs such as those of drinking bhang and conducting rituals which we see in prominent shivaism.

It's true he is small fry, but it's always good to raise awareness. Personally speaking I don't think Nidar is RSS or anything, but like n30 said RSS uses his website and interpretation to justify their own views.

It's a slippery slope and it's better to be safe.

There are bigger fish to deal with though...

[Jonny101]

really good video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UiiUHFCkoZ0

It's almost like they are talking about Niddar LOL he fits the description perfectly

[proactive]

Someone should combine the footage of Niddar prancing around in the first video with a voice over from the discussion in the second video.