Animal Sacrifices?!

[savinderpalsingh 701]

There are plenty of valid traditions but when it gets over blown or people wrap their head around it thats when it becomes an manmat so its not issue with tradition rather people understanding.

With same token, all though sarbloh bibek is great tradition to avoid inflitration or avoid negative energy at certain avastha its been over blown by people and made it into something else at the border line of manmat.

Similiarly jhatka tradition is not manmat as there are lot of symbolism/deeper aspect behind it however people hiding behind jhatka tradition eating it freely at kfc or taste of tongue or wrap their head around ritualistic/dogmatic killing (ignoring shakti aspect) that what makes it manmat.

Don't want to get into my bhai sahib or nihang jathedar is better than yours..see my post based on my own personal expereince below regarding individual cutlish perception in the panth:

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/69848-individual-cultish-perception-and-the-khalsa-panth/

do we have to recite only "Gurparsad bhram ka nash" before kirpan bhet or there are more tuks? please provide the rest of tuks as well

[Jonny101 4,351]

Like i said stop questioning history and maryada regarding kirpan bhet

we do kirpan bhet of krah parshad before serving to sangat , read book Karah Prashad Maryada Nirnay by Giani Harbans Singh

even langar is also is done kirpan bhet after ardas to maharaj and given to sangat.

there is a whole gurudwara on this historical event Gurudwara Kirpan Bhet , visit it.

you wont understand the link we have with shastars .

yeh hamare peer

eating bhang any drug for addiction is wrong

at old time shaheedi deg , was used as pain killer , disinfect wounds etc

old time faujan was always ready to battle so they consumed it

try having a small cut by blade on your body you will jump around like a monkey, imagine getting cuts in a sword fight.

Deg was a necessary material and still is. Nihangs are keeping maryada alive given by guru

do not question maryada with your own manmatt.

for mian mir >> http://fateh.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/news.nsf/NewsArchive/5B4385906AA05536872570E6006642B6

I'm not arguing against Kirpan Bhet. Kara Prashad is cooked by an Amritdhari Sikh which is then done kirpan Bhet. That is Babeki rehit. Can a Muslim come to the Gurdwara cook the Kara Parshad and then do kirpan Bhet of it and say it is Babeki food? No!

Langar Maryadha today is very lax. For example until the early 90s, non Amritdharis were not allowed to cook food at Darbar Sahib Amritsar, but with the downfall of the Kharkoos who were the ones who unforced proper Rehit at Darbar Sahib, no one really really follows rehit anymore. Today at Darbar Sahib, Punjab's government is promoting non Sikhs foreign tourists to come and cook langar at Darbar Sahib as some kind of tourist activity. This is a recent change in our rehit which was not there 20 years ago.

[Jonny101 4,351]

for mian mir >> http://fateh.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/news.nsf/NewsArchive/5B4385906AA05536872570E6006642B6

sikhnet ਯੋਗੀ ਭਜਨ ਦੇ ਚੇਲਿਆਂ ਦੀ ਸਾਇਟ ਹੈ, ਇਹ ਲੋਗ ਤਾਂ ਬਾਬਾ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਚੰਦ ਦੀ ਮੂਰਤੀ ਦੀ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰਦੇ ਨੇ, ਜੇ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਸਿਖ ਇਤਿਹਾਸ ਦੀ ਜਾਣਕਾਰੀ ਹਾਸਿਲ ਕੀਤੀ ਹੈ, ਤਾਂ ਫਿਰ ਬਹੋਉਤ ਹੀ ਅਪਸੋਸ ਵਾਲੀ ਗੱਲ ਹੈ. I will rather believe Kavi Satokh Singh Jee on this matter who wrote Guru's Itihas in Sooraj Prakash.

[savinderpalsingh 701]

for more info why we do kirpan bhet , read Sri Bhagauti Astotra , Patshahi 10vi

they might be sikhnet but in the post they have found historical evidence of mian mir

[Jonny101 4,351]

No i mean the Dal Panth, who after defeating the moghal army after a battle took their langar and ate the food the moghals had prepared.

also the sakhi of Kirpan Bhet, this gurdwara to commemorate this event is maintained by the Nihangs, so next time you that way, make sure you go to see them.

What must have happened is the Singhs took the rations of the Mughals like uncooked Daal Aaataa and then cooked it themselves. If you think Singhs would have eaten cooked food, cooked by hooka smoking Mughals then you need to reread Sikh ithihas

[Jonny101 4,351]

for more info why we do kirpan bhet , read Sri Bhagauti Astotra , Patshahi 10vi

they might be sikhnet but in the post they have found historical evidence of mian mir

Where in Bhagauti Astotar does it say that food cooked by a Muslim then done Kirpan Bhet can be considered Babeki?

[DSGj 339]

Continue Foundation Stone of Harimandir Sahib conversation here: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/72979-foundation-of-sri-harimandar-sahib-sri-guru-arjan-dev-or-sai-mian-mir/

This way we can focus on the other discussions within this topic (jhatka, marijuana, bibek, nihangs, etc).

[savinderpalsingh 701]

Where in Bhagauti Astotar does it say that food cooked by a Muslim then done Kirpan Bhet can be considered Babeki?

no kirpan bhet is done by amritdhari singh only ,

you took the story wrong.

[chatanga 1,058]

What must have happened is the Singhs took the rations of the Mughals like uncooked Daal Aaataa and then cooked it themselves. If you think Singhs would have eaten cooked food, cooked by hooka smoking Mughals then you need to reread Sikh ithihas

there is nothing to suggest that the food was uncooked, as the sikhs attacked the camp in the evening as the moghals were preparing food. i have read sikh history, not picked and chose which bits i like.

[scali 231]

This taking life stuff is about free will of beings. We are not to revoke other being free will given to them by GOD just as we have ours. Killing can only be jusified in self defense or some just cause. Guru Nanak Dev ji refused Janeau but Guru Teg Bahadar ji gave his life for Hindus right to worship (free will of Hindus) even Guru Nanak house does'nt agree with principles of Hindus.

[Singh559 2,643]

I've talked to a Giani Ji from Taksal, they respect the jhatka tradition although are in favor of vegetarian diet. I won't say which Giani Ji because I don't know if what Giani Ji said is controversial, but I believe it to be true. Giani JI said that Guru Sahib allowed the jangi soorme to consume maas only by jhatka.

[Cisco_Singh 564]

I have never heard of chickens being sacrificed in Nihang initiation ceromonies... But on the ideoligy iof Jhatka , Mahaprashad and shaheedi degh/sukha/Bhang .. These are all authentic traditional Khalsa Nihang traditions and they are all relevant to the sant-sipahi life style.

Jhatka is also not purely about meat, it is the philosophy and underpinning of the Akali Nihang combat systems..I.E: quick efficient smooth one strike kills of the enemy using vital points, eyes, neck, throat, groin etc.. The Khalsa lifestyle is "tyar bar tyar" always ready, and "chakarvarti" always on the move. You eat to survive..there is no wastage...mahaprashad is eaten, animal skins are re-used for leather belts, water skins, musical intruments etc.. Next time you see Kirtanees playing Tabla bear in mind that traditionally Tabla skins came from the hides of Jhatka'd goats..

Bandai Khalsa, the British, SGPC, Singh Sabha revsionists all tried to stop the authentic Sikh traditions of Jhatka..Thankfully due to Tat Khalsa, Budha Dal the Akali Nihang SIingh Fauj and Maharajhs Kirpa they all failed...

Today the same hypocritical Jathebandis and blind followers of Singh Sabha tradition try to launch the same attacks on Guru ordained traditions..without clear understanding of the Gurus legacy and unique Khalso lifestyle...They try to launch petitions to stop Jhatka at Sachkand Sri Hazur Sahib etc...

Heres some quotes I fouind regarding Jhatka in Sikh tradition

‘At Kurukshetra, a great centre of Hindu pilgrimage, where a big fair was being held on the occasion of the solar eclipse. A follower of the Guru offered him deer meat to eat. The Guru who had never made any distinction between one kind of food and another and took whatever was offered to him, did not refuse the courtesies of his devotee. And he allowed him to roast it for his food.’

-Bhai Mani Singh, 'Gyan Ratnavali', pg. 123.

The second instance of 'Jhatka' is found in the lives of Guru Angad Dev Ji and Guru Amardass Ji.

‘One day the Guru had a meat dinner prepared. Amar Das said, "If the Guru is a searcher of hearts, he must know that I am a Vaishnav and do not touch flesh". The Guru (Guru Angad), knowing this, ordered that dal should be served him. Amar Das then reflected, "The Guru knoweth that meat is forbidden me, so he hath ordered that dal be served me instead." Amar Das then rapidly arrived at the conclusion that any disciple, whose practice differed from that of the Guru, must inevitably fail. He therefore told the cook that if the Guru were kind enough to give him meat, he would partake of it. The Guru, on hearing this, knew that superstition was departing from Amar Das's heart, and he handed him his own dish. When Amar Das had partaken of it, he for the first time felt peace of mind, and as he became further absorbed in his attentions and devotion to the Guru, celestial light dawned on his heart. Thus did he break with the strictest tenet of Vaishnavism and become a follower of the Guru. One day the Guru, in order to further remove Amar Das's prejudices, thus began to instruct him: "The meats it is proper to abstain from are these - Other's wealth, other's wives, slander, envy, covetousness and pride. If any one abstaining from meat is proud on the subject and says, 'I never touch meat,' let him consider that the infant sucks nipples of flesh, that the married man takes home with him a vessel of flesh." Guru Angad then repeated and expounded Guru Nanak's sloks on the subject. He also related to Amar Das the story of Duni Chand and his father, giving in the Life of Guru Nanak. "If you think of it," continued the Guru, "there is life in everything, even in fruits and flowers, so say nothing of flesh; but whatever thou eatest, eat remembering God, and it shall be profitable to thee. Whatever cometh to thee without hurting a fellow creature is nectar, and whatever thou recievest by giving pain is poison. To shatter another's hopes, to calumniate others, and to misappropriate their property is worse than to eat meat.’

-'The Sikh Religion', Volume II by Max Arthur Macauliffe.

The next instance of 'Jhatka' is found in the life of Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji, who made it an inseparable part of an Akali's life.

‘The Guru believes in one God. His followers put not their faith in idol-worship. They never pray or practice austerities like the Hindus. They believe not in their incarnations, or places of pilgrimage nor the Sanskrit language which the Hindus deem to be the language of gods. They believe that all the Gurus are the same as Nanak. The Sikhs are not restricted in the matter of eating or drinking. When Partap Mall Giani saw a Hindu boy who had a mind to embrace Islam, he said, 'Why do you become a Muhammadan? If you have an inclination to eat everything, you may become a Sikh of the Guru and eat whatever you like.’

-Mohsin Fani, 'Dabistan-e-Mazahib.'

It was finally under Guru Gobind Singh Ji that 'Jhatka' became an important aspect of the Khalsa's rehat. Especially the Akali Nihungs who consisted a majority of the panth at the time.

'Drink the immortal nectar and upon joining the Khalsa fold go hunting. Continually seek to perfect your use of weapons. Perform 'Jhatka' and eat goats. Do not even go near Halal meat.'

-'Sri Gur Panth Prakash', Ratan Singh Bhangu, pg. 110.

‘One day the Guru ordered for some goats to be brought,

And ordered the Singhs to slaughter these animals. (4)

As the Guru partook the meat of these slaughtered animals,

He kept on throwing the bones into the neighbouring Muslim’s household,

At this, the Muslim started abusing his Kshtriya neighbour,

For throwing the left over bones into his house. (5)

Dohra : Thereupon the Guru’s host Gulab Chand prayed to the Guru,

That he was a very poor and powerless citizen.

If the Mughals came to know about this sheltering the Guru,

They would, undoubtedly, kill him and his family. (6)

Chaupai : Then Satguru started throwing coins into the Muslim’s house,

Which made him keep silent after picking up those coins.

After staying there for ten days in his manner,

The Guru wished to move out of this place. ‘(7)

-'Sri Gur Panth Prakash,' Ratan Singh Bhangu, pg. 133.

'Always partake in hunting, practice killing deer and then eat your hunt.'

-'Naveen Panth Prakash,' Gyani Gian Singh Nirmala, pg. 1589, volume 13.

[Singh559 2,643]

Great insight above, but this quote seems inaccurate:

The Guru believes in one God. His followers put not their faith in idol-worship. They never pray or practice austerities like the Hindus. They believe not in their incarnations, or places of pilgrimage nor the Sanskrit language which the Hindus deem to be the language of gods. They believe that all the Gurus are the same as Nanak. The Sikhs are not restricted in the matter of eating or drinking. When Partap Mall Giani saw a Hindu boy who had a mind to embrace Islam, he said, 'Why do you become a Muhammadan? If you have an inclination to eat everything, you may become a Sikh of the Guru and eat whatever you like.’

-Mohsin Fani, 'Dabistan-e-Mazahib.'

Sikhs do believe in reincarnation and Guru Granth Sahib Ji reaffirms this.

[BritishSingh 96]

Nothing people like these just stir up things for no reason . let's not go of topic

WaheguruJiKaKhalsa!! WaheguruJiKiFateh!!

Please read the whole thread

I have read the thread many times, but cannot find the answer to my question of whether mahaprashad is greater than gur prashad / Amrit or greater than degh/karah prashad? The term maha suggests that this prashad is the greatest.

[singhbj singh 1,381]

ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ ॥

Prabhaathee ||

प्रभाती ॥

Prabhaatee:

1 ਪੰ. ੫

Page:1350 Line: 5

ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥

Baedh Kathaeb Kehahu Math Jhoothae Jhoothaa Jo N Bichaarai ||

बेद कतेब कहहु मत झूठे झूठा जो न बिचारै ॥

Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false.

2 ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੫੦ ਪੰ. ੫

Raag Parbhati Bhagat Kabir Page:1350 Line: 5

ਜਉ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਕਹਤ ਹਉ ਤਉ ਕਿਉ ਮੁਰਗੀ ਮਾਰੈ ॥੧॥

Jo Sabh Mehi Eaek Khudhaae Kehath Ho Tho Kio Muragee Maarai ||1||

जउ सभ महि एकु खुदाइ कहत हउ तउ किउ मुरगी मारै ॥१॥

You say that the One Lord is in all, so why do you kill chickens? ||1||

3 ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੫੦ ਪੰ. ੫

Raag Parbhati Bhagat Kabir Page:1350 Line: 5

ਮੁਲਾਂ ਕਹਹੁ ਨਿਆਉ ਖੁਦਾਈ ॥

Mulaan Kehahu Niaao Khudhaaee ||

मुलां कहहु निआउ खुदाई ॥

O Mullah, tell me: is this God's Justice?

4 ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੫੦ ਪੰ. ੬

Raag Parbhati Bhagat Kabir Page:1350 Line: 6

ਤੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਕਾ ਭਰਮੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Thaerae Man Kaa Bharam N Jaaee ||1|| Rehaao ||

तेरे मन का भरमु न जाई ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

The doubts of your mind have not been dispelled. ||1||Pause||

5 ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੫੦ ਪੰ. ੬

Raag Parbhati Bhagat Kabir Page:1350 Line: 6

ਪਕਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਆਨਿਆ ਦੇਹ ਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਮਾਟੀ ਕਉ ਬਿਸਮਿਲਿ ਕੀਆ ॥

Pakar Jeeo Aaniaa Dhaeh Binaasee Maattee Ko Bisamil Keeaa ||

पकरि जीउ आनिआ देह बिनासी माटी कउ बिसमिलि कीआ ॥

You seize a living creature, and then bring it home and kill its body; you have killed only the clay.

6 ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੫੦ ਪੰ. ੭

Raag Parbhati Bhagat Kabir Page:1350 Line: 7

ਜੋਤਿ ਸਰੂਪ ਅਨਾਹਤ ਲਾਗੀ ਕਹੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਕਿਆ ਕੀਆ ॥੨॥

Joth Saroop Anaahath Laagee Kahu Halaal Kiaa Keeaa ||2||

जोति सरूप अनाहत लागी कहु हलालु किआ कीआ ॥२॥

The light of the soul passes into another form. So tell me, what have you killed? ||2||

7 ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੫੦ ਪੰ. ੭

Raag Parbhati Bhagat Kabir Page:1350 Line: 7

ਕਿਆ ਉਜੂ ਪਾਕੁ ਕੀਆ ਮੁਹੁ ਧੋਇਆ ਕਿਆ ਮਸੀਤਿ ਸਿਰੁ ਲਾਇਆ ॥

Kiaa Oujoo Paak Keeaa Muhu Dhhoeiaa Kiaa Maseeth Sir Laaeiaa ||

किआ उजू पाकु कीआ मुहु धोइआ किआ मसीति सिरु लाइआ ॥

And what good are your purifications? Why do you bother to wash your face? And why do you bother to bow your head in the mosque?

8 ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੫੦ ਪੰ. ੮

Raag Parbhati Bhagat Kabir Page:1350 Line: 8

ਜਉ ਦਿਲ ਮਹਿ ਕਪਟੁ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਗੁਜਾਰਹੁ ਕਿਆ ਹਜ ਕਾਬੈ ਜਾਇਆ ॥੩॥

Jo Dhil Mehi Kapatt Nivaaj Gujaarahu Kiaa Haj Kaabai Jaaeiaa ||3||

जउ दिल महि कपटु निवाज गुजारहु किआ हज काबै जाइआ ॥३॥

Your heart is full of hypocrisy; what good are your prayers or your pilgrimage to Mecca? ||3||

9 ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੫੦ ਪੰ. ੯

Raag Parbhati Bhagat Kabir Page:1350 Line: 9

ਤੂੰ ਨਾਪਾਕੁ ਪਾਕੁ ਨਹੀ ਸੂਝਿਆ ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਮਰਮੁ ਨ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥

Thoon Naapaak Paak Nehee Soojhiaa This Kaa Maram N Jaaniaa ||

तूं नापाकु पाकु नही सूझिआ तिस का मरमु न जानिआ ॥

You are impure; you do not understand the Pure Lord. You do not know His Mystery.

10 ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੫੦ ਪੰ. ੯

Raag Parbhati Bhagat Kabir Page:1350 Line: 9

ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਭਿਸਤਿ ਤੇ ਚੂਕਾ ਦੋਜਕ ਸਿਉ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ॥੪॥੪॥

Kehi Kabeer Bhisath Thae Chookaa Dhojak Sio Man Maaniaa ||4||4||

कहि कबीर भिसति ते चूका दोजक सिउ मनु मानिआ ॥४॥४॥

Says Kabeer, you have missed out on paradise; your mind is set on hell. ||4||4||

11 ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੫੦ ਪੰ. ੧੦

Raag Parbhati Bhagat Kabir Page:1350 Line: 10

Source - http://searchgurbani.com/scriptures/ggs_shabad/4893/line/3

This is a perfect example of what happens when you don't read Gurbani and follow kachi bani.