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genie

Israel Or Palestine Which Side You On?

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Its not a question of sides, its not a football match. However should be on the side of the opressed. Palestine deserves a homeland and Israeli Settlements must stop...It would be like indians resettling parts of Punjab. The idea of the state of Israel is a commendable one. But they have to start working with their neighbours and not be a satellite of Brooklyn and Europe.

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This is the kartoot of British yet again, post second world war they had to house Jewish refugees from all over Europe so they put this 'Jewish homeland ' on the map forget about the people already living on the land for thousands of years. I am surprised at how oppressive the israelis have become after suffering under the oppressive regimes of Europe you would think they would try to get along more and not insist on segregating Muslims into ghettos ...is that what they took away from the Nazis?

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I used to be a firm supporter of israel particularly against muslim terrorists during the 2000 intafada when hamas were killing innocent israeli civilians in raids and suicide bombings.

But now I have learnt alot about how israeli's have become the tyrants and oppressors killing vast numbers of innocent civilians. It is difficult to see soft bodies of little innocent kids blown apart by israeli superior military hardware. It is a PR diaster on the part of the zionist israeli's as its united everyone against them and the Jews in general. No longer people see the muslims as terrorists but the zionist jews as the terrorists.

Also it brings back incidents connected to Sikhs in present history in late 70s and early 1980s how israeli govt and its mossad helped train indian NSG commando's in their attack in operation blue star of david on sri harmandir sahib.

And also the 1967 incident when 13 Indian army United Nations Sikh peace keepers were deliberately attacked and martyred by Israeli army jewish zionist terrorists. They did not care the Indian Sikh soldiers were peace keepers and neutral force there. At the same year they also attacked an allied American warship (the US liberty) and killed many American soldiers too and blamed it on arab forces. 5 dancing israeli's were caught by fbi during the 9/11 attacks filming and hi5ing each other when the planes hit the twin towers. So israeli has a long and dirty history of terrorism against not only muslims but various other nationalities, religious and ethnic groups around the world including our own.

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I guess in another thread you made it clear that as Sikhs we can't choose either one.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/74929-should-uk-govt-be-sued-for-aiding-indian-govt-state-terrorism-in-1984-against-sikhs/?p=611481

Are we to go down the corrupt racist secterian terrorist abrahmic "chosen people" islamic and jewish paths? or are we to go by the rightouses path of Sikhism that believes in sarbat da bhala and human rights, freedom, welfare, peace, justice for all.

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-Jewish vs Muslims

-Christians vs Muslims

-Hindus vs Muslims

-Shia vs Sunni

no need for us to get involved in any of these. Sikhs should just remain neutral and seize any opportunity that presents itself for the Panth's political independence. Be like the Kurds. In Iraq, they didn't get involved in the Shia vs Sunni war. Instead they took that as an opportunity to increase their territory by 40% and also reclaim their historic capital Kirkuk(full of oil) to the annoyance of the Arabs.

Once we have a country of our own, then we can get involved in other people's conflict and help them.

Very well said, we should "...remain neutral and seize any opportunity that presents itself for the Panth's political independence"

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-Jewish vs Muslims

-Christians vs Muslims

-Hindus vs Muslims

-Shia vs Sunni

no need for us to get involved in any of these. Sikhs should just remain neutral and seize any opportunity that presents itself for the Panth's political independence. Be like the Kurds. In Iraq, they didn't get involved in the Shia vs Sunni war. Instead they took that as an opportunity to increase their territory by 40% and also reclaim their historic capital Kirkuk(full of oil) to the annoyance of the Arabs.

Once we have a country of our own, then we can get involved in other people's conflict and help them.

And if you think about it based on historical perspectives, we had a sovereign Khalsa Raj when we didn't meddle in the affairs of others. The Marathas, Afghans, Mughals were entangled in a web of clashes, and the Sikhs were also sucked into it. However as long as we maintained neutrality and the Singhs of those times used wise political moves, we were fine. Its only when, for whatever reason, Sikhs became part of the Indian freedom struggle that we slowly lost Punjab to India, beginning with the annexation of 1849.
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I don't support any side. One point I take from this conflict, especially to make a point to pakistanis, is that the they way they feel about israel holding the area of jerusalem and the golden mosque, is what we feel about the loss of Nankana Sahib to pakistan in 1947. whenthey hear that they kind of get an inkling over our huge loss in 1947.

BTW, the anniversary of the Great Disaster will upon us soon. another time to reflect for us.

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Yes as a religious community we should remain neutral as both sides have done us harm in past and present. We should remember that Israel has harmed our people and we did not interfere in their affairs however hey interfered in our religious and politics affairs. Our people laid down their lives in ww2 so that their enemies the nazi's could be defeated and their people rescued from holocaust. How did they return the favor? They aided the Indian govt in killing our people at our holiest shrine in 1984 and to this day they aid the punjab govt with military training for badals personal bodyguards and commando's.

In this conflict where one side outnumbers the other in vastly superior military capability and I see many innocent civilians especially small kids murdered by one sides heavily equipped army then I cant help but feel sympathy for the Palestinians who are victims of not only israeli zionist terrorism but also hamas's futile military resistance. They are caught in the middle with no where to go. And with each unjust death of a family member that persons son or brother or father is further radicialised and want to hit back against Israel.

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I don't support any side. One point I take from this conflict, especially to make a point to pakistanis, is that the they way they feel about israel holding the area of jerusalem and the golden mosque, is what we feel about the loss of Nankana Sahib to pakistan in 1947. whenthey hear that they kind of get an inkling over our huge loss in 1947.

BTW, the anniversary of the Great Disaster will upon us soon. another time to reflect for us.

I agree with that. If the pakistani's support palestinains in the right for them to reclaim ALL of their homeland from Israel then they cant cry or be hypocritical if Sikhs want to reclaim our holyland of Punjab from Pakistan also.

Sooner or later Pakistan will balkanize due to the agenda of the western powers....and it is that point, Sikhs will have their best chance to reclaim nankana sahib and lost sovereignty.

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I agree with that. If the pakistani's support palestinains in the right for them to reclaim ALL of their homeland from Israel then they cant cry or be hypocritical if Sikhs want to reclaim our holyland of Punjab from Pakistan also.

Sooner or later Pakistan will balkanize due to the agenda of the western powers....and it is that point, Sikhs will have their best chance to reclaim nankana sahib and lost sovereignty.

No need for Sikhs to cast an evil eye towards Pakistan. So far when Sikhs go to Pakistan, they treat us as guests and with hospitality. Why are we so hell bent on ruining that by making claims on their territory? Our conflict is with Delhi hakoomat not them. As the old Punjabi saying goes:

ਪਿਹਲਾ ਖੜੇ ਹੋਣ ਲਈ ਜਗਾ ਬਣਾ ਲੀਏ, ਫਿਰ ਬੈਠਣ ਲਈ ਭੀ ਜਗਾ ਬਣਾ ਲਵਾਂਗੇ

Take help from anyone who is willing to offer it, but don't become anyone's pawn or asset.

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Sooner or later Pakistan will balkanize due to the agenda of the western powers....and it is that point, Sikhs will have their best chance to reclaim nankana sahib and lost sovereignty.

We cannot reclaim Nankana as part of our Sikh country. There are some 2000 Sikhs there in a sea of some 60 million people there in Pakistani Panjab.I can't see the Pakis fracturing Pakistan to be some part of a Sikh country.

What we really want is unhindered access to our shrines, and the chance to rebuild our heritage in Pakistan.

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The Israelis are now the best friends of the Indian govt and they may have assisted the HIndustanis in their dirty war against the Sikhs in the 1990s. The one thing that we should admire about the Israelis is that even though they were a small minority in Palestine in 1948 they were able to get 50% of the territory and then when they were attacked by the Arab states they were able to enlarge the state that the UN gave them. This is something that the Sikh leadership failed to do in 1947 and we are suffering from the consequences. As for the Palestinians they need to take the area that Israelis are giving them and move on. They have over a dozen Arab countries which have not helped them and have used them as pawns in their war with Israel. The Jews were forced out of the Arab countries and do not make any claims against these countries and have moved on to become citizens of Israel. The Palestinians need to do the same.

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