Bhatra Community

[JRoudh]

Very good read jroudh but I have one question u wrote that other uk sikh communities were not as accepting to bhatras because you weren't as modern ? Can you go into more detail I feel that is very childish on them also from the wedding vid you showed it look like women and men r segregated well dancing which i think is great after reading this I have a new fond respect for the bhatras cos u stick to ur roots and don't see that modernizing equals successes

If there are issues with Sikhs in the UK Integrating with other Sikhs and being accepted, this is usually to do with the Jat community who dont wish to integrate with other Sikhs. Growing up in London with a big Bhatra community and living alongside a large Ramgharia community we both have got along very well. Infact the main temple that serves our area is very large Ramgharia Gurdwara and Bhats form half the congregation if not more. Showing that the Ramghria and Bhatra community get along fine with each other.

I think this is mainly about how Bhats treated women. This has now changed women are given more freedom. To go to university and pursue their careers. Bhatras are generally more conservative the other Sikh groups. Dating is strictly not allowed in our community. This is actually nothing to do with Bhat culture. Its because we are following the Sikh teachings which forbids this kind of stuff. But people have a go at us simply for following our religion which says we should act respectful and moral. ie no going clubbing and pubbing, getting drunk ect.

We are also generally known to be more religious and have a stronger belief in our faith then other Sikh groups. This is due to our very orthodox upbringing having been in the Punjab since the times of Guru Nanak Dev Ji has instilled a greater sense of honour and pride in our religion this makes us adhere to the Khalsa beliefs by being more committed, dedicated and strong in our beliefs as Sikhs.

Bhatras being the oldest community of Sikhs see themselves as the most dedicated and loyal of the Sikhs for this reason. Even though centuries have gone past Bhats still adhere to the same principles that our religion teaches us. But we do not believe in caste this is evident by the different groups that joined our community. We generally kept a low profile due to being humble but now we are starting to raise awareness about our community.

[Ranjeet01]

"If there are issues with Sikhs in the UK Integrating with other Sikhs and being accepted, this is usually to do with the Jat community who dont wish to integrate with other Sikhs. Growing up in London with a big Bhatra community and living alongside a large Ramgharia community we both have got along very well. Infact the main temple that serves our area is very large Ramgharia Gurdwara and Bhats form half the congregation if not more."

I have to take exception to the fact Jats do not integrate with other Sikhs. In my local Ramgharia gurdwara there are plenty of Jats that are part of the Sangat. I have seen many Anand Karaj where one spouse is Jatt or both Jatt at the Ramgharia gurdwara.

Jatts are used as convenient whipping boys by some non Jatts. If anything some non Jatts are more caste conscious than Jatts are.

[ekgurjaskhalsa]

[JagsawSingh]

Bhatras being the oldest community of Sikhs

You seem to be obessed by your 'caste' Roudh. This obssession has clouded your reasoning as the Khatris are the oldest community of Sikhs.

We are also generally known to be more religious and have a stronger belief in our faith then other Sikh groups. This is due to our very orthodox upbringing having been in the Punjab since the times of Guru Nanak Dev Ji has instilled a greater sense of honour and pride in our religion this makes us adhere to the Khalsa beliefs by being more committed, dedicated and strong in our beliefs as Sikhs.

There is a world of difference between how you perceive yourself and how others perceive you. I think you might find common consensus among the wider Sikh community is that the Bhatras have practices that are extremely un-Sikh.

There is nothing Sikh...nothing Khalsa....about women keeping the veil.

There is nothing Sikh....nothing Khalsa....about Sikh women keeping chundh in front of SGGS ji in the Gurdwara.

There is nothing Sikh.....nothing Khalsa....about keeping rings in your noses like bulls and enough shabby chic jewellery that would make even a gypsy blush.

There is nothing Sikh....nothing Khalsa about marriage dowries.

There is nothing Sikh...nothing Khalsa.... about a community where something like zero percent of the females have a dastar.

There is nothing Sikh.....nothing Khalsa....about a community that practices widespread fortune telling and palm reading for a living.

There is nothing Sikh....nothing Khalsa....about habitually murdering and then eating like cannibals god's animals.

There is nothing Sikh...nothing Khalsa...about being of the mindset that the Khalsa is only for males and females do not count.

I suggest, Roudh, you stop this casteist nonsense and re-evaluate what you percieve to be your community's reputation. The best start for this is acknowledging the fact that 50% of Sikhs are female. These 50% are not some sort of sub-standard low value human beings. They are Sikhs.

[Babbar_Singhsta]

JagsawSingh

thank you

JagsawSingh!!!!

The flase pride people in their castes is disgusting !!!!!

Shathri ka pooth ha bahman ko nehi!!

we are sons of warriors not the sons of barhmans/caste!!

Manaas Ki Jaath Iko Hai ( i think or along the lines of this)

Recognise ye the whole human race as one.!

both from Dasam Granth Sahib Jee Maharaj!

Dhan Kalgidar Pita!!!

[Babbar_Singhsta]

Aasaa, First Mehla:
If a beggar cries out at the door, the Master hears it in His Mansion.
Whether He receives him or pushes him away, it is the Gift of the Lord's Greatness. ||1||
Recognize the Lord's Light within all, and do not consider social class or status; there are no classes or castes in the world hereafter. ||1||Pause||
He Himself acts, and He Himself inspires us to act.
He Himself considers our complaints.
Since You, O Creator Lord, are the Doer,
why should I submit to the world? ||2||
You Yourself created and You Yourself give.
You Yourself eliminate evil-mindedness;
by Guru's Grace, You come to abide in our minds,
and then, pain and darkness are dispelled from within. ||3||
He Himself infuses love for the Truth.
Unto others, the Truth is not bestowed.
If He bestows it upon someone, says Nanak, then, in the world hereafter, that person is not called to account. ||4||3||

[StarStriker]

You seem to be obessed by your 'caste' Roudh. This obssession has clouded your reasoning as the Khatris are the oldest community of Sikhs.

There is a world of difference between how you perceive yourself and how others perceive you. I think you might find common consensus among the wider Sikh community is that the Bhatras have practices that are extremely un-Sikh.

There is nothing Sikh...nothing Khalsa....about women keeping the veil.

There is nothing Sikh....nothing Khalsa....about Sikh women keeping chundh in front of SGGS ji in the Gurdwara.

There is nothing Sikh.....nothing Khalsa....about keeping rings in your noses like bulls and enough shabby chic jewellery that would make even a gypsy blush.

There is nothing Sikh....nothing Khalsa about marriage dowries.

There is nothing Sikh...nothing Khalsa.... about a community where something like zero percent of the females have a dastar.

There is nothing Sikh.....nothing Khalsa....about a community that practices widespread fortune telling and palm reading for a living.

There is nothing Sikh....nothing Khalsa....about habitually murdering and then eating like cannibals god's animals.

There is nothing Sikh...nothing Khalsa...about being of the mindset that the Khalsa is only for males and females do not count.

I suggest, Roudh, you stop this casteist nonsense and re-evaluate what you percieve to be your community's reputation. The best start for this is acknowledging the fact that 50% of Sikhs are female. These 50% are not some sort of sub-standard low value human beings. They are Sikhs.

Cheers geezer for sayin it how it is. I was gonna mention the whole obsession that bhatras have with gold, rings, jewellery and the most hideous of all....the pardaah (veil), but i thought leave it.

[JRoudh]

You seem to be obessed by your 'caste' Roudh. This obssession has clouded your reasoning as the Khatris are the oldest community of Sikhs.

There is a world of difference between how you perceive yourself and how others perceive you. I think you might find common consensus among the wider Sikh community is that the Bhatras have practices that are extremely un-Sikh.

There is nothing Sikh...nothing Khalsa....about women keeping the veil.

There is nothing Sikh....nothing Khalsa....about Sikh women keeping chundh in front of SGGS ji in the Gurdwara.

There is nothing Sikh.....nothing Khalsa....about keeping rings in your noses like bulls and enough shabby chic jewellery that would make even a gypsy blush.

There is nothing Sikh....nothing Khalsa about marriage dowries.

There is nothing Sikh...nothing Khalsa.... about a community where something like zero percent of the females have a dastar.

There is nothing Sikh.....nothing Khalsa....about a community that practices widespread fortune telling and palm reading for a living.

There is nothing Sikh....nothing Khalsa....about habitually murdering and then eating like cannibals god's animals.

There is nothing Sikh...nothing Khalsa...about being of the mindset that the Khalsa is only for males and females do not count.

I suggest, Roudh, you stop this casteist nonsense and re-evaluate what you percieve to be your community's reputation. The best start for this is acknowledging the fact that 50% of Sikhs are female. These 50% are not some sort of sub-standard low value human beings. They are Sikhs.

So what is 'Sikh like'?

Making Bhangra videos of caste based songs

making bhangra songs about drinking and women

indulging in drugs and drink in the Punjab

Infant infanticide in the Punjab

Its a good job we got Jatts to teach us how to be true Khalsa Sikhs.

[JRoudh]

I would firstly like to to say I regret that this topic has slightly side tracked. The topic was actually going quite well as it was just about the History of the Bhatra community in the UK and nothing to do with anything else. But JagSawSingh could not resist having a dig at Bhatras like he has done ever since he posted on this thread and has turned this thread into a Bhatra v Jat thread even though I never even mentioned anything about Jatts until he started making wild accusations against the Bhatra community with all sorts of false information and stereotypes.

But I am glad in a way that he did as it made me do more research about the whole subject in more detail which I think is only a good thing. This has greatly deepened my understanding of the Bhat Sangat even more and hope it has for other members who are curious to find out about the community.

Anyway I think I have said most what is necessary about the topic. There is nothing more to say I hope people have gained a greater understanding of the community. And I must apologies if I went slightly off topic with some unnecessary information but that was mostly in retaliation to some of JagSawSinghs offensive comments which completely side tracked the topic.

As for his latest out burst about Bhatras. I dont think there is any need to respond to his centuries old list of stereotypes of the Bhat Sangat which are not true. What I would say is for him to google search images of a 'Jat woman' and see which community has a tradition of wearing bull rings in their noses it certainly is not the Bhats.

Just because Bhat women wear lots of gold does not make them any less Sikh. Who cares what jewelry is worn it is what is inside that matters. I personally think women should wear less gold. And I think women have stopped wearing to much gold now due to all the damn robberies that have happened with asians being targeted for gold.

We dont slaughter Jhakta meat anymore that was centuries ago. We are living in the 21st century. Not 17 century India. The fact of the matter is the average Bhatra today cannot be distinguished between the rest of the Sikh communities today.

[ekgurjaskhalsa]

Why cant we all be SIKHS, NOT Jatt Sikhs, NOT Bhatra Sikhs, NOT Ramghariya Sikhs, NOT Majhbi Sikhs, Not Khatri Sikhs.. JUST GURSIKHS...