Quran Found Before Prophets Time

[Pakandi baba 153]

WOW you have completely lost the plot

On one hand you respect and are arguing to death for the izzat of the Quran here but at the same time you have become bemukh to bani of Guru Gobind Singh Jee and say it means nothing to you because Guru jee's bani is not in line with your secular philosophy

Nothing to do with my so called secular philosophy. The Dasam Granth is not the Guru, if you believe it is, then you're the bemukh. Dasam Granth is not the topic here.

So, you and others doubt Dhan Guru Arjan Dev Ji Nirankaar? why oh why would he even say such things in the Bani...

kurwxu kqyb idl mwih kmwhI ] (1083-17)

kuraan katayb dil maahi kamaahee.

Practice within your heart the teachings of the Koran and the Bible

Ignore the Bible bit as that's not what we are discussing.

Go, fabricate to suit your own needs as does Sheikh and a few others. The truth is the truth, hate all you want. You're driven away from sacha gian by the hatred you posses.

The Quran is such a vile compilation to you and others, yet here is the Lord saying dil meh kamovoh jo likia Quran vich - Basic Punjabi breakdown for those who are not able to translate

[Kira 1,430]

Nothing to do with my so called secular philosophy. The Dasam Granth is not the Guru, if you believe it is, then you're the bemukh. Dasam Granth is not the topic here.

So, you and others doubt Dhan Guru Arjan Dev Ji Nirankaar? why oh why would he even say such things in the Bani...

kurwxu kqyb idl mwih kmwhI ] (1083-17)

kuraan katayb dil maahi kamaahee.

Practice within your heart the teachings of the Koran and the Bible

Ignore the Bible bit as that's not what we are discussing.

Go, fabricate to suit your own needs as does Sheikh and a few others. The truth is the truth, hate all you want. You're driven away from sacha gian by the hatred you posses.

The Quran is such a vile compilation to you and others, yet here is the Lord saying dil meh kamovoh jo likia Quran vich - Basic Punjabi breakdown for those who are not able to translate

I would be very,very careful about talking disrespectfully about Guru Gobind singh Ji's Bani. The Dasam Granth may not be our Guru, but it is still Gurbani and as such should be treated with the utmost respect.

[S4NGH 753]

Hey don't let facts cloud your opinion, this is after all a Islam bashing & Mohammed ridiculing site!

Look at these haters salivating at the thought that Mohammed is not a Prophet like the Guru Sahibs have stated. No different from Ram, Jesus, Krishna, Buddha etc etc

Quran is mentioned in SGGS, are these imbeciles saying the Guru Sahibs were not knowledgeable if the Quran was fake or fabricated? The Gurus, the Lord God Incarnate at each stages they appeared?!

Hallelujah!

[S4NGH 753]

I would be very,very careful about talking disrespectfully about Guru Gobind singh Ji's Bani. The Dasam Granth may not be our Guru, but it is still Gurbani and as such should be treated with the utmost respect.

Kira paji, re-read his post, he made some very valid points. It wasnt at all disrespectful to Sri Dasam Granth though...

[hsingh8963 372]

Someone provide a Link of Sant Ji's Katha?

[SheikhYoBooty 295]

Truly what beautiful teachings from the Quran below

TheReligionofPeace.com
Guide to Understanding Islam

What does the
Religion of Peace
Teach About...

The Sex Life of the Prophet

Question:

Was Islam's "perfect man" sexually restrained?

Summary Answer:

The Quran (which was created and narrated by Prophet Muhammad) refers to Prophet Muhammad's life as "as beautiful pattern of conduct for anyone whose hope is in Allah" (33:21) and "an exalted standard of character" (68:4). Yet, thanks to Allah's extraordinary interest in his personal sex life (as immortalized in the Quran) the prophet of Islam had sex with just about anyone he pleased.

Although the Qur'an didn't appear to have enough space for topics like universal love and brotherhood (which Muslims sometimes insist are there, but aren't), the list of sexual partners that Prophet Muhammad was entitled to is detailed more than once, sometimes in categories and sometimes in reference to specific persons (ie. Zaynab and Mary).

Prophet Muhammad was married to thirteen women, including eleven at one time. He relegated them to either consecutive days or (according to some accounts) all in one night. He had sex with a 9-year-old girl and married his adopted son's wife (after arranging a quick divorce). On top of that, Prophet Muhammad had a multitude of slave girls and concubines with whom he had sex - sometimes on the very days in which they had watched their husbands and fathers die at the hands of his army.

So, by any realistic measure, the creator of the world's most sexually restrictive religion was also one of the most sexually indulgent characters in history.

The Qur'an:

Allah managed to hand down quite a few "revelations" that sanctioned Prophet Muhammad's personal pursuit of sex to the doubters around him. Interestingly they have become part of the the eternal, infallible word of the Qur'an, to be memorized by generations of Muslims for whom they have no possible relevance.

Qur'an (33:37) - "But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah's command shall be performed." No doubt millions of young Muslims, trying to outdo one another at memorizing the Qur'an, have wondered about what this verse means and why it is there. In fact, this is a "revelation" of convenience that Allah just happened to hand down at a time when Muhammad lusted after his daughter-in-law, Zaynab, - a state of affairs that disturbed local customs. The verse "commands" Muhammad to marry the woman (following her husband's gracious divorce). As for why this should be part of the eternal word of God...?

Qur'an (33:50) - "O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those slavegirls whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her-- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; " This is another special command that Muhammad handed down to himself that allows virtually unlimited sex, divinely sanctioned by Allah. One assumes that this "revelation" was meant to assuage some sort of disgruntlement in the community over Muhammad's hedonism.

Qur'an (33:51) - "You may put off for sex whom you please of them, and you may take to you whom you please, and whom you desire of those whom you had separated provisionally; no blame attaches to you; this is most proper, so that their eyes may be cool and they may not grieve, and that they should be pleased" This is in reference to a situation in which Muhammad's wives were grumbling about his preference for sleeping with a slave girl (Mary the Copt) instead of them. Accordingly, Muhammad may sleep with whichever wife (or slave) he wishes without having to hear the others complain... as revealed in Allah's literal and perfect words to more than a billion Muslims.

Qur'an (66:1-5) - "O Prophet! Why do you ban (for yourself) that which Allah has made sexually lawful to you, seeking to please your wives?... Allah has already ordained for you, the dissolution of your oaths" Another remarkably personal passage of sexual convenience in a book billed as Allah's perfect and eternal message to mankind. Muhammad was caught sleeping with a slave woman on the night that he was supposed to be with one of his wives. Initially promising to be faithful, "Allah" tells his prophet to break that promise and enjoy sex with his slaves. If his wives objected then "it may be if he divorced you (all) that his Lord will give him instead of you, wives better than you."

Qur'an (4:24) - "And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those married slavegirls whom your right hands possess." Allah even permitted Muhammad and his men to have sex with married slaves, such as those captured in battle.

From the Hadith:

Muslim (8:3309) - Muhammad consummated his marriage to Aisha when she was only nine. (See also Bukhari 58:234 and many other places). No where in the reliable Hadith or Sira is there any other age given. Other references are Sahih Bukhari 3896, 5158 and 3311.

Bukhari (62:18) - Aisha's father, Abu Bakr, wasn't on board at first, but Muhammad explained how the rules of their religion made it possible. This is similar to the way that present-day cult leaders manipulate their followers into similar concessions.

Muslim (8:3311) - The girl took her dolls with her to Muhammad's house (something to play with when the "prophet" was not having sex with her).

Bukhari (6:298) - Muhammad would take a bath with the little girl and fondle her.

Muslim (8:3460) - "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you could sport with her and she sport with you, or you could amuse with her and she could amuse with you?" Muhammad posed this question to one of his followers who had married an "older woman" instead of opting to fondle a child.

Bukhari (4:232) - Muhammad's wives would wash semen stains out of his clothes, which were still wet from the spot-cleaning even when he went to the mosque for prayers. Between copulation and prayer, it's a wonder he found the time to slay pagans.

Bukhari (6:300) - Muhammad's wives had to be available for the prophet's fondling even when they were having their menstrual period.

Bukhari (93:639) - The Prophet of Islam would recite the 'Holy Qur'an' with his head in Aisha's lap, when she was menstruating.

Bukhari (62:6) - "The Prophet used to go round (have sexual relations with) all his wives in one night, and he had nine wives." Muhammad also said that it was impossible to treat all wives equally - and it isn't hard to guess why.

Bukhari (5:268) - "The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number." I asked Anas, 'Had the Prophet the strength for it?' Anas replied, 'We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty men.' "

Bukhari (60:311) - "I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires." These words were spoken by Aisha within the context of her husband having been given 'Allah's permission' to fulfill his sexual desires with a large number of women in whatever order he chooses. (It has been suggested that Aisha may have been speaking somewhat wryly).

Muslim (8:3424) - One of several narrations in which a leering Muhammad orders a clearly startled woman to suckle a grown man with her breast so that he will become "unlawful" to her - meaning that they can live under the same roof together.

Tabari IX:137 - "Allah granted Rayhana of the Qurayza to Muhammad as booty." Muhammad considered the women that he captured and enslaved to be God's gift to him.

Tabari VIII:117 - "Dihyah had asked the Messenger for Safiyah when the Prophet chose her for himself... the Apostle traded for Safiyah by giving Dihyah her two cousins. The women of Khaybar were distributed among the Muslims." He sometimes pulled rank to reserve the most beautiful captured women for himself.

Tabari IX:139 - "You are a self-respecting girl, but the prophet is a womanizer." Words spoken by the disappointed parents of a girl who had 'offered' herself to Muhammad (he accepted).

Additional Notes:

Prophet Muhammad's sexual antics are an embarrassment to those Muslims who are aware of them. This is particularly so for their prophet's consummation of his marriage to child wife Aisha when she was only nine years of age. The thought of a 54-year-old Arab man called Prophet Muhammad having sex when aged 54 and bathing with a young girl of nine years age is intensely unpleasant and it reflects the disgusting character of a sexual glutton rather than a holy man. Critics even allege that Prophet Muhammad was a pedophile as a consequence of him sexually consummating his marriage with Aisha when was only 9years old and he was aged 54.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTeAB4l0KCM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNCz9MXmcsw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbD2BZZsMbY

[StarStriker 1,062]

Nothing to do with my so called secular philosophy. The Dasam Granth is not the Guru, if you believe it is, then you're the bemukh. Dasam Granth is not the topic here.

So, you and others doubt Dhan Guru Arjan Dev Ji Nirankaar? why oh why would he even say such things in the Bani...

kurwxu kqyb idl mwih kmwhI ] (1083-17)

kuraan katayb dil maahi kamaahee.

Practice within your heart the teachings of the Koran and the Bible

Ignore the Bible bit as that's not what we are discussing.

Go, fabricate to suit your own needs as does Sheikh and a few others. The truth is the truth, hate all you want. You're driven away from sacha gian by the hatred you posses.

The Quran is such a vile compilation to you and others, yet here is the Lord saying dil meh kamovoh jo likia Quran vich - Basic Punjabi breakdown for those who are not able to translate

Haaa, so what have u done here by providing this line from SGGS? Its funny u havnt provided the surrounding lines from that particular part of gurbani. Any person reading the WHOLE passage, can work out that this is written by guru ji, as advice for muslims and uses many metaphors. SGGS gives advice to muslims and hindus, hence y the often said thing is "hindus should become better hindus, and muslims should become better muslims".

alah agam khudaa-ee banday.

O slave of the inaccessible Lord God Allah,

Coif iKAwl dunIAw ky DMDy ] (1083-14)

chhod khi-aal dunee-aa kay DhanDhay.

forsake thoughts of worldly entanglements.

hoie pY Kwk PkIr muswPru iehu drvysu kbUlu drw ]1] (1083-14)

ho-ay pai khaak fakeer musaafar ih darvays kabool daraa. ||1||

Become the dust of the feet of the humble fakeers, and consider yourself a traveller on this journey. O saintly dervish, you shall be approved in the Court of the Lord. ||1||

scu invwj XkIn muslw ] (1083-14)

sach nivaaj yakeen muslaa.

Let Truth be your prayer, and faith your prayer-mat.

mnsw mwir invwirhu Awsw ] (1083-15)

mansaa maar nivaarihu aasaa.

Subdue your desires, and overcome your hopes.

dyh msIiq mnu maulwxw klm KudweI pwku Krw ]2] (1083-15)

dayh maseet man ma-ulaanaa kalam khudaa-ee paak kharaa. ||2||

Let your body be the mosque, and your mind the priest. Let true purity be God's Word for you. ||2||

srw srIAiq ly kMmwvhu ] (1083-16)

saraa saree-at lay kammaavahu.

Let your practice be to live the spiritual life.

qrIkiq qrk Koij tolwvhu ] (1083-16)

tareekat tarak khoj tolaavahu.

Let your spiritual cleansing be to renounce the world and seek God.

mwrPiq mnu mwrhu Abdwlw imlhu hkIkiq ijqu iPir n mrw ]3] (1083-16)

maarfat man maarahu abdaalaa milhu hakeekat jit fir na maraa. ||3||

Let control of the mind be your spiritual wisdom, O holy man; meeting with God, you shall never die again. ||3||

kurwxu kqyb idl mwih kmwhI ] (1083-17)

kuraan katayb dil maahi kamaahee.

Practice within your heart the teachings of the Koran and the Bible;

ds Aaurwq rKhu bd rwhI ] (1083-17)

das a-uraat rakhahu bad raahee.

restrain the ten sensory organs from straying into evil.

pMc mrd isdik ly bwDhu KYir sbUrI kbUl prw ]4] (1083-18)

panch marad sidak lay baaDhhu khair sabooree kabool paraa. ||4||

Tie up the five demons of desire with faith, charity and contentment, and you shall be acceptable. ||4||

mkw imhr rojw pY Kwkw ] (1083-18)

makaa mihar rojaa pai khaakaa.

Let compassion be your Mecca, and the dust of the feet of the holy your fast.

iBsqu pIr lPj kmwie AMdwjw ] (1083-19)

bhisat peer lafaj kamaa-ay andaajaa.

Let Paradise be your practice of the Prophet's Word.

hUr nUr musku KudwieAw bMdgI Alh Awlw hujrw ]5] (1083-19)

hoor noor musak khudaa-i-aa bandagee alah aalaa hujraa. ||5||

God is the beauty, the light and the fragrance. Meditation on Allah is the secluded meditation chamber. ||5||

[StarStriker 1,062]

Any dasam granth basher on here, answer me this 1 question, is dasam granths bani amrit bani? Yes or NO?

It is often said, if SGGS is the head, dasam granth and sarbloh granths r the shoulders.

[Balkaar 1,335]

Nothing to do with my so called secular philosophy. The Dasam Granth is not the Guru, if you believe it is, then you're the bemukh. Dasam Granth is not the topic here.

So, you and others doubt Dhan Guru Arjan Dev Ji Nirankaar? why oh why would he even say such things in the Bani...

kurwxu kqyb idl mwih kmwhI ] (1083-17)

kuraan katayb dil maahi kamaahee.

Practice within your heart the teachings of the Koran and the Bible

Ignore the Bible bit as that's not what we are discussing.

Go, fabricate to suit your own needs as does Sheikh and a few others. The truth is the truth, hate all you want. You're driven away from sacha gian by the hatred you posses.

The Quran is such a vile compilation to you and others, yet here is the Lord saying dil meh kamovoh jo likia Quran vich - Basic Punjabi breakdown for those who are not able to translate

I've never met a Sikh Islamic-apologist who interpreted scripture with such a rabid literalism as you do. I'd expect that to come from the people arrayed against you at the opposite end of the spectrum from where you're situated. Fascinating. And I bet you don't deploy this same literalism when you're perusing your respected Quran.

Starstriker has already demonstrated how you've taken a metaphorical passage completely out of context. If Maharaj says "Let compassion be your Mecca and the dust of the feet of the holy your fast" (in other words, Mecca and the fast are pointless and ought to be substituted by true spirituality), then why would he recommend people to faithfully adhere to the book which advocates the practices of pilgrimage and fasting which he has just finished rubbishing in the exact same passage?

[Balkaar 1,335]

Nothing to do with my so called secular philosophy. The Dasam Granth is not the Guru, if you believe it is, then you're the bemukh. Dasam Granth is not the topic here.

So, you and others doubt Dhan Guru Arjan Dev Ji Nirankaar? why oh why would he even say such things in the Bani...

kurwxu kqyb idl mwih kmwhI ] (1083-17)

kuraan katayb dil maahi kamaahee.

Practice within your heart the teachings of the Koran and the Bible

Ignore the Bible bit as that's not what we are discussing.

Go, fabricate to suit your own needs as does Sheikh and a few others. The truth is the truth, hate all you want. You're driven away from sacha gian by the hatred you posses.

The Quran is such a vile compilation to you and others, yet here is the Lord saying dil meh kamovoh jo likia Quran vich - Basic Punjabi breakdown for those who are not able to translate

If all Sikhs interpreted Bani as literally as you do, we'd probably be chopping off people's heads just like the Islamic fundamentalists:

slok mÚ 2 ]

salok ma 2 ||

Salok, Second Mehla:

jo isru sWeI nw invY so isru dIjY fwir ]

jo sir saa(n)ee naa nivai so sir dheejai ddaar ||

Chop off that head which does not bow to the Lord.

nwnk ijsu ipMjr mih ibrhw nhI so ipMjru lY jwir ]1]

naanak jis pi(n)jar mehi birehaa nehee so pi(n)jar lai jaar ||1||

O Nanak, that human body, in which there is no pain of separation from the Lord-take that body and burn it. ||1||

(Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj, Ang 89, authored by Sri Guru Angad Dev)

Thankfully, we know such tuks are not meant to be taken letter for letter, that Maharaj was being poetic.

[Jonny101 4,373]

Nothing to do with my so called secular philosophy. The Dasam Granth is not the Guru, if you believe it is, then you're the bemukh. Dasam Granth is not the topic here.

So, you and others doubt Dhan Guru Arjan Dev Ji Nirankaar? why oh why would he even say such things in the Bani...

kurwxu kqyb idl mwih kmwhI ] (1083-17)

kuraan katayb dil maahi kamaahee.

Practice within your heart the teachings of the Koran and the Bible

Ignore the Bible bit as that's not what we are discussing.

Go, fabricate to suit your own needs as does Sheikh and a few others. The truth is the truth, hate all you want. You're driven away from sacha gian by the hatred you posses.

The Quran is such a vile compilation to you and others, yet here is the Lord saying dil meh kamovoh jo likia Quran vich - Basic Punjabi breakdown for those who are not able to translate

You have taken this Pangti out of context. And it's not surprising since you have read that incorrect English translation. Read Prof Sahib Singh Jee's teeka and then read the entire Shabad, it is full of metaphors using Islamic terminology. Read each and every Tukh from that Shabad how Guru Sahib is using Islamic words and redefining them in light of Gurmat. For example, it says in that Shabad "Sach Nivaj, Yakeen Musala" meaning: Vaheguru De Naam nu apni Namaz Bana te rab te yakeen nu apna Mussala bana(make the Naam of Vaheguru your Nimaz and make trust in Vaheguru as your prayer mat). And the whole shabad goes on like this using metaphor after metaphor. The tukh you mentions means as Prof Sahib Singh Jee has translated it is "In your mind do Kamaee of the Naam of Vaheguru, this for you is the wisdom of Quran and Katebs(bible, torah)." And anyone who has read Quran and Katebs knows they don't talk about Naam. So this is obviously not talking about the actual Quran or Katebs.

Some Back ground info is needed for the readers here: The theory behind this Shabad is that this Shabad of Guru Arjun Dev Jee was addressed to those Sikhs who were previously of Islamic background so Guru Sahib using Islamic terminology and redefining them in order to explain the message of Gurmat that for you this path of Gurmat/Sikhi is your new Makkah, Haj, Namaz, Quran, Mussala, Sharah, Bhisht, Hoors etc. During the time of Guru Arjun Dev Jee, half of the Sikh converts came from Islamic background. Sheikh Sirhindi who is regarded as the Mujjadid(reviver) of Islam was alarmed by seeing so many Muslims becoming Sikhs. So he used his power and influence to have Guru Arjun Dev Jee become Shaheed. Even Jahangir in Tauzke Janangiri mentions that the reason why he executed Guru Arjun dev Jee was because many Muslims had become his followers.

As for Guru Gobind Singh Jee's Bani, that Shabad(ਪਾਂਇ ਗਹੇ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤੁਮਰੇ) is a part of our Daily Nitnem. This Shabad is read out in Rehras Sahib by all Amritdharis. Furthermore, this Shabad is read out in all Gurdwaras around the world including Sri Darbar Singh and Panj Takhts. So it is undisputed fact that this is Gurbani. This Shabad is very important for Sikhs because it strengthens our religious boundaries in straight forward words for those misguided Sikhs who do not mind becoming a Hardeghi Chamach(A spoon used in all foods) as Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha called those Sikhs who say they are believers in the Guru but go around following Vedas, Bible, Quran and rituals and festivals of other religions.

When you disown Bani of your father(Guru Gobind Singh Jee) but are tirelessly defending Bani of Mohammad one cannot help but nod his head in apsos and disappointment of how much you have mixed up your priorities.

[Kira 1,430]

Kira paji, re-read his post, he made some very valid points. It wasnt at all disrespectful to Sri Dasam Granth though...

Bhaji. I say this in total respect but all of Bani is our Guru. Maybe I was a bit too quick on the keyboard. I apologize to yourself,PakandiBaba and anyone else I may have offended with my lapse of Judgement, if i was outspoken or rude. I hope you won't take my words as an attack on yourself or anyone.

[singh_comradz 87]

I know about Holland but he didn't have access to this manuscript and I am sure that he too would agree there are many errors and omissions in the history too.In fact The muslims do not like him at all since he has questioned/examined their history. I believe Hazrat Mohammed existed but earlier and lived in Petra not Mecca . Mecca was not a major trading place as it was way off the normal trade routes but now has become a super money maker for the tribals who own the land , who did not accept Islam at the time of the prophet but much much later after 3rd Caliph ...interesting that.

I've read Hollands book. In it he said that there are actually no real sources regarding the Quran and the Ka'aba until 100-200 years after the passing of Muhammed. Holland said that the history during the 'golden age' of Islam in reference the successive Caliphates which immediately followed Muhammed are quite vague. Furthermore he also said that an early scholar called Al-Bukhari during the 8th century compiled the 7000 odd Hadiths from around 200,000 possible scripts

His analysis implies that early Islamic history and their idea of authoritative scripts and history could have been doctored and influenced to present the mainstream version of Islam we see today.

Even if we follow the 'official' version of Islam preached by their scholars, that Muhammed received the revelation which he dictated to his followers who then wrote the words on various parchments, which was then later compiled into the Quran during the rule of the third Caliph, and that Al-Bukhari found the 7500 authentic Hadiths out of 200,000 - then even the common man will tell you that there is plenty room for error.

[singh_comradz 87]

Furthermore if you ever ask a scholar as to why there are verses in the Quran which refer to the subjucation and killing of non-believers, then he will probably say that those passages relating to when Muhammed and his followers were being attacked by Quraysh and other tribes.

Yet the question from that arises as to whether the Quran is meant to be a divine revelation or a history book?

[gsingh12345 59]

Waheguru Ji ka khalsa waheguru Ji ki fateh. Seems the online sangat is quite knowledgeable when it comes to Islam / muhammed. Ask yourself do you know the names of our guru sahibs; panj pyare and chaar sahibzade?

Maybe it's me can someone explain why they as sikhs have so much interest in Islam?