An interesting note. All the cult deras in Panjab/Haryana were started by former Sikhs.

[jkvlondon]

1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

So if someone has a drug problem, it's because they are male chauvinists, yes of course that makes sense.

Amazing the conflation you make that if there are problems with men it is the women's fault. 

Your solipsism astounds me. There are things happening with men that are not always related to women.

Bibian go for deras because it part of the female psyche. It is the same evolved behaviour that teenage girls who follow pop bands. Even if their husbands did not have problems, they are still going to follow these babeh types.

If their husbands have drink problems maybe there are issues involved which these babeh cannot solve many because the man's issues are not being addressed.

Why do men turn to drink? It is because they have pressures and stresses in life, their outlet is through drink. It is not because they are sexist or chauvinist pigs

I have seen this with my own eyes with several male relatives in Punjab and I have seen this with Punjabi men here in the UK, they are killing themselves with drink. It is a slow suicide.

Believe it or not, men are human too, just like your sons, fathers and brothers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

women are judged badly if they take to drinking like their husbands and sons so they can only take their woes to gurdwarey or babey . If the gurdwarey are not supportive or even listening then they will try out the babey. The whole macho macho , live hard play harder mentality pushes guys into the trap of drinking and drugs , if guys become religious then they get verbally assaulted by their so called bretheren. Toxic mentalities destroy lives ... and our people are happy to imbibe toxicity from bollywood , the west everywhere and anywhere - instead of taking the vaccine that is Gurmat.

 

[Ranjeet01]

1 minute ago, jkvlondon said:

women are judged badly if they take to drinking like their husbands and sons so they can only take their woes to gurdwarey or babey . If the gurdwarey are not supportive or even listening then they will try out the babey. The whole macho macho , live hard play harder mentality pushes guys into the trap of drinking and drugs , if guys become religious then they get verbally assaulted by their so called bretheren. Toxic mentalities destroy lives ... and our people are happy to imbibe toxicity from bollywood , the west everywhere and anywhere - instead of taking the vaccine that is Gurmat.

 

 

Men and women are different.

Women are more social then men. Women have always had their social networks, Gurdwarae or not, women will talk with each other.

There was a documentary on the BBC about bhangra. The origins of UK Bhangra in the 1950s and 1960s started in the pubs of Smethwick near Birmingham. These guys worked in the foundries (that is real hard physical, dangerous work) and they sung about their life in the foundries), there was a real sadness about this.

Alcohol is not something that brings joy, it is used to forget about the sadness. It is a coping mechanism which taken to the extreme can cause severe problems.

Men have to be strong, they cannot show weakness/vulnerability towards their wives because women expect competency and strength in their men, a wife will lose respect very quickly for her husband if he behaved like a woman.

Men cannot afford to emote like women, we all suffer from the struggles in life, we all have our challenges in life. Some people to the guru others will turn to other things.

 

 

 

[jkvlondon]

1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

 

Men and women are different.

Women are more social then men. Women have always had their social networks, Gurdwarae or not, women will talk with each other.

There was a documentary on the BBC about bhangra. The origins of UK Bhangra in the 1950s and 1960s started in the pubs of Smethwick near Birmingham. These guys worked in the foundries (that is real hard physical, dangerous work) and they sung about their life in the foundries), there was a real sadness about this.

Alcohol is not something that brings joy, it is used to forget about the sadness. It is a coping mechanism which taken to the extreme can cause severe problems.

Men have to be strong, they cannot show weakness/vulnerability towards their wives because women expect competency and strength in their men, a wife will lose respect very quickly for her husband if he behaved like a woman.

Men cannot afford to emote like women, we all suffer from the struggles in life, we all have our challenges in life. Some people to the guru others will turn to other things.

 

 

 

but the whole drowning ones sorrows is a totally imported trope , continously iterated by filmi industry and tv serials ...Bro guys do emote you never seen the buddey sitting together shooting the breeze in pind , in malls everywhere  there's plenty chinwagging going on.

singing, writing poetry, dancing is more our culture ...

[Ranjeet01]

3 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

but the whole drowning ones sorrows is a totally imported trope , continously iterated by filmi industry and tv serials ...Bro guys do emote you never seen the buddey sitting together shooting the breeze in pind , in malls everywhere  there's plenty chinwagging going on.

singing, writing poetry, dancing is more our culture ...

It's not a trope though.

Men don't only drink to socialize, they drink by themselves too.

The number of our menfolk who  on their way home from work, pop off to the off licence, get a bottle and knock it back before going home.

Then there are some men who work double shifts (6am to 10pm), they will come after 10pm, have their roti and then knock back a few pegs before going to sleep.

Then they are up at 5am, get to work for 6am, do another double shift. They will work 6-7 days a week.

There are plenty of men that do that.

Like I said before, it's a coping mechanism.

 

 

 

[FreshMind13]

It's a coping mechanism to the dumb <banned word filter activated> Bollywood imposes on them.

I think that jkvlondon is talking about the stupid idiots who have faith in Bollywood, while Ranjeet is talking about the husband who is working his <banned word filter activated> off to support the house and family.

[Ranjeet01]

1 hour ago, FreshMind13 said:

It's a coping mechanism to the dumb <banned word filter activated> Bollywood imposes on them.

I think that jkvlondon is talking about the stupid idiots who have faith in Bollywood, while Ranjeet is talking about the husband who is working his <banned word filter activated> off to support the house and family.

Punjabis do not drink because of Bollywood nor are they particularly influenced by them.

Bollywood influences India, but Punjab is quite independent of this.

[jkvlondon]

4 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Punjabis do not drink because of Bollywood nor are they particularly influenced by them.

Bollywood influences India, but Punjab is quite independent of this.

really is that why girls are asking for 'hero' style husbands these days instead of dastarwale sardars and sardars son's all look like wannabe musley and hindu heroes?
punjabi films are also influenced by and often modelled on b'wood formulas

is it also why they all talk english like those bewakoof actors and actresses instead of british english school style

[puzzled]

11 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Sorry the question was meant for TigerForce.

These type of topics are seen from a fem-centric point of view.

We are quick to point that men drink and abuse their spouses etc, but we never look at what causes this in the first place.

My father was a heavy drinker and used to cause problems with my mother. It was not something I liked very much but I asked my father why he drank so much and he said, "I do not wish to live"

The fact of the matter is that a great many of our men attempt to kill themselves slowly through alcohol, I suspect that many of our menfolk have great bouts of depression.

There is a burden of expectation and performance that is specific to  men that most women will not comprehend. 

When these women go to see babeh, they are not looking to help their menfolk they are looking to see how it benefits themselves.

They are not addressing what the real problem is.

 

 

 

 

 

yeah your right, a lot of men in our community drink to get away from reality, they use alcohol as an escape. Different communities escape from problems in different ways, in our community men just go for alcohol. In South Asian culture alcohol has always been romanticized. Countless folk tales involve men, tragedy and alcohol, its just the way our culture has evolved. I have heard of so many men fed up of reality and then using alcohol as an escape, the problem is they don't know how to deal or address the problem and instead try to escape it or block it out. Another problem is in our culture men are not supposed to show emotion or signs of giving up or struggle. Men are the ones that are supposed to represent the household/family and then there is the whole financial thing, the higher the £££ the better the man in our community is considered.  I wonder how many Punjabi women actually know whats really going on inside their mans mind, or have even cared to ask...   There are far more middle aged drunk men than younger men in our community, i wounder why ...  

My family has many men who have just given up and drink everyday, trust me its real ...

Not saying that every Punjabi man drinks to escape, obviously there are many who just do it out of habit.

 

[TigerForce1]

11 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Tiger

Are you married with kids?

Yes veera!  Married with two kids.

Looks like this is turning into an healthy discussion examining the psychology behind the Punjabi drink culture.

Difficult one but we have to be honest and ask why are men from other faith groups able resist alcohol as an companion if stress, work and family issues are the reasons for people to turn to it during testing times.

[TigerForce1]

I feel it has more to do with acceptance and with this there is little or no stigma regarding alcohol within the community.  No one bats an eyelid if you drink and in fact you are stigmatised and mocked if you don’t drink within Punjabi circles.  It’s best to say that we have become ‘besharams’ to the next level where we openly do this in front of children, wives, in laws, parents and other faith groups.  This is the true shame and downfall of community and we are such ‘besharam kanjars’ that we celebrate this within our songs and arts which fans even more kanjarpuna.