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Why do some 'Sikhs' celebrate Christmas

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4 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

I've seen Sikhs who have a huge problem celebrating a cultural day like Rakhri because they say it is a Hindu holiday or even make a fuss over calling Diwali as "Diwali" instead of Bandi chod Divas but have no problem celebrating Christmas with their whole family.

I think there are some cultural baggage issues.

Some of our people will disassociate anything relating to Hindus because some of us feel threatened that we may be reverting to become Hindus.

Christmas being an "outsiders" festival holds no such connotations. 

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9 hours ago, Akal Warrior said:

So, if your child had a birthday in December, you would not allow them to celebrate it? "Sorry kid, no Happy birthday for you because 300 years ago..." 

Really? I wonder what kind of psychological effect it would have on a child, and how it would affect their Sikhi in the future? Subconscious animosity perhaps? In Saka Nankana children were thrown into fires, so does that mean nothing can be celebrated in February?  June 1984 attack... No June birthdays for children?  I understand respect for Shaheeds, but who is making these rules? Why does it not apply to the other months?  What about when Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Gurpurab falls in December instead of January for certain years? 

It ain't a rule it's how people felt about it   like I said in villages around sirhind people to this day dont do weddings and celebrations in december   I guess it's because it closer to home for people from sirhind. In other parts of Punjab people didnt do much in december either but attitudes have changed and people started having weddings etc in december.

It comes down to what feels right. My birthdays in December and mum told me to buy something sweet and leave it in the langar hall but I didnt do that coz it didnt feel right to do that. Comes down to the individual. 

As for birthdays in december and kids getting psychologically affected   I never had birthday parties, just a cake and then it was back to watching tv   and that didnt affect me in any way, Im actually glad I dint have any of that cheesy bs. 

Most punjabi kids just get a cake, £20  and then that's it  finished      I dont see them getting effected in any way. 

 

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On 12/31/2019 at 3:23 AM, Jonny101 said:

I've seen Sikhs who have a huge problem celebrating a cultural day like Rakhri because they say it is a Hindu holiday or even make a fuss over calling Diwali as "Diwali" instead of Bandi chod Divas but have no problem celebrating Christmas with their whole family.

Funnily enough, I recently saw a hukumnama from Guru Gobind Singh calling it Diwali

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On 12/31/2019 at 1:52 AM, Ranjeet01 said:

I think there are some cultural baggage issues.

Some of our people will disassociate anything relating to Hindus because some of us feel threatened that we may be reverting to become Hindus.

Christmas being an "outsiders" festival holds no such connotations. 

I'm sure that might be the case in India but certainly not in the West where Sikhs are in no danger of reverting back to Hinduism.

 

In the west the ideologies of Christianity and western secularism is what many people end up assimilating into Sikhi. Celebrating Christmas is back door entry to both those ideologies. Opening up your family to Western secularism or western universalism is more dangerous than Christianity which leads one to becoming a secular followed by agnostic or worse atheist. 

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14 hours ago, ipledgeblue said:

Funnily enough, I recently saw a hukumnama from Guru Gobind Singh calling it Diwali

The term Bandi Chod Divas is not even that old. I haven't been able to find reference to this term before the mid 90s when it became popular after the fall of the Sikh Kharku movement. All the puratan letters of the Gurus and even Bhai Mani Singh jees letter refers to this day as Divali. 

 

Nothing wrong with using both terms interchangeably but I find it highly strange when I see some missionary influenced Sikhs start to accuse you of being an RSS agent if you refer to this day as Divali.

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8 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

I'm sure that might be the case in India but certainly not in the West where Sikhs are in no danger of reverting back to Hinduism.

 

In the west the ideologies of Christianity and western secularism is what many people end up assimilating into Sikhi. Celebrating Christmas is back door entry to both those ideologies. Opening up your family to Western secularism or western universalism is more dangerous than Christianity which leads one to becoming a secular followed by agnostic or worse atheist. 

I think you will find that the longer the diaspora is in the west, the more we will assimilate to western cultural values and western norms.

Christmas in reality has nothing to do with Jesus Christ, it is a winter pagan festival. We have our winter festival in lohri and I think that a lot of our people are now aligning a lot of our cultural norms with the goreh. 

I went to a couple of funerals and I have observed the wearing of black compared with wearing the traditional white. In our native lands, we never wear black but there are changes taking place.

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1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

I think you will find that the longer the diaspora is in the west, the more we will assimilate to western cultural values and western norms.

Christmas in reality has nothing to do with Jesus Christ, it is a winter pagan festival. We have our winter festival in lohri and I think that a lot of our people are now aligning a lot of our cultural norms with the goreh. 

I went to a couple of funerals and I have observed the wearing of black compared with wearing the traditional white. In our native lands, we never wear black but there are changes taking place.

Western secularism is an easy target on which to pin the blame when an individual or a group can't retain control over its people and their thought processes, but take a look back home and observe Punjabi and Indian secularism that has elements of Westernisation practised by people who haven't set foot outside their village. How's that managed to emerge when the people are surrounded by cultural and religious reminders and norms on an almost overwhelmingly constant basis?

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1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

Western secularism is an easy target on which to pin the blame when an individual or a group can't retain control over its people and their thought processes, but take a look back home and observe Punjabi and Indian secularism that has elements of Westernisation practised by people who haven't set foot outside their village. How's that managed to emerge when the people are surrounded by cultural and religious reminders and norms on an almost overwhelmingly constant basis?

There are some strange paradoxes for sure.

People from Punjab are far more fluid, the diaspora is far more rigid.

The cultural values the diaspora follow are not the same values people in Punjab or more recent Punjabi migrants follow. 

The Punjabi values we follow are based from the mid 20th century, it is very alien to the Punjabi values today. 

If a western Sikh grows up with Christmas it is because it is something that has been internalised as it is cultural norm.

If it is someone from Punjab or India, then it is because it is seen as being modern.

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