Why was Jathedar Baba Sahib Singh ji Kicked Out?

[ipledgeblue]

before we take the side of SGPC, read these:

 

‘They [the S.G.P.C.] are enemies of the true Khalsa form [Budha Dal Akali Nihangs]. Because only after making pledges did they get the Act Bill passed. They [S.G.P.C.] said: “We accept the Gurdwara Act.” [The British replied], “We [British] will pass the Act Bill but the Priests [Udasi Mahants] have made pledges.” ‘’What pledges?” [asked the S.G.P.C.]. [The British replied], “That they would not raise a voice for Khalsa Raj.” They [the S.G.P.C.] said: “This pledge we will also make.” After making this pledge they got the Act Bill passed. Under the jurisdiction of it [the Act] all are S.G.P.C. Gurdwaras. They [the S.G.P.C.] are enslaved by it.’
Akali Nihang Baba Santa Singh, transcript of interview on Vaisakhi 1999

 

‘Committee [the S.G.P.C.] was made. Its leader was chosen making the Act. He was controlled [by the British]. The Shiromani Committee that was made, the Nihang Singhs of Budha Dal from the beginning did not accept and termed it ‘Sirmuni’ (one with shaved head referring to one who has no shame) Committee. Why? Because it was under the control of the ‘Angrez’ (the British) and it was formed with the signature of the ‘Angrez’. And out of all its donation money, six ‘Anna’ went to the Angrez and they [S.G.P.C.] accepted every Angrez term. That is why in ‘Guru Panth’ you cannot have these committees. In Guru Panth, the Budha Dal is supreme.’
Nihang Baba Ram Singh, transcript of interview on 17-4-1998

[proactive]

Have some shame, at least try and research the movement before your accept that Nihang's BS. The creation of the SGPC and the wrestling back of the Gurdwaras from the British supported Mahants came not though some underhand agreement which this Nihang seems to have dreamed up. The Akali struggle was won after so much suffering which the Sikhs had to undergo . The Akalis not only faced the Mahants who had resources to violently defend their control of the Gurdwaras as Mahant Narainu did at Nankana Sahib but the British government as well as the Hindus who could see that loss of the Gurdwaras to Sikh control would serious impact their 'Sikhs are Hindus' narrative. 

In the movement over 40,000 Sikhs were jailed, over 400 lost their lives and over 2,000 were injured some very seriously. Thousands of ex-soldiers who had joined the movement had their hard earned pensions forfeited. 16 Lakh rupees were levied in fines and lands of the Akalis were seized,  700 Lambardars and Zaildars lost their jobs. The movement scared the sh1t of of M K Gandhi so much so that he wrote in his newspaper that the military formations of the Akalis were scaring the law abiding Hindus in the villages. 

The Akali movement was fought in the full light of history. Newspapers as well as the autobiographies of those who took part are all available. There is no excuse for ignorance and blindly accepting some Nihang's deluded ramblings about a conspiracy between the Akalis and the British. 

As for the events of the takeover of Durbar Sahib in 1920, this has been discussed on another thread years ago, just do a search. 

[GurjantGnostic]

10 minutes ago, proactive said:

Have some shame, at least try and research the movement before your accept that Nihang's BS. The creation of the SGPC and the wrestling back of the Gurdwaras from the British supported Mahants came not though some underhand agreement which this Nihang seems to have dreamed up. The Akali struggle was won after so much suffering which the Sikhs had to undergo . The Akalis not only faced the Mahants who had resources to violently defend their control of the Gurdwaras as Mahant Narainu did at Nankana Sahib but the British government as well as the Hindus who could see that loss of the Gurdwaras to Sikh control would serious impact their 'Sikhs are Hindus' narrative. 

In the movement over 40,000 Sikhs were jailed, over 400 lost their lives and over 2,000 were injured some very seriously. Thousands of ex-soldiers who had joined the movement had their hard earned pensions forfeited. 16 Lakh rupees were levied in fines and lands of the Akalis were seized,  700 Lambardars and Zaildars lost their jobs. The movement scared the sh1t of of M K Gandhi so much so that he wrote in his newspaper that the military formations of the Akalis were scaring the law abiding Hindus in the villages. 

The Akali movement was fought in the full light of history. Newspapers as well as the autobiographies of those who took part are all available. There is no excuse for ignorance and blindly accepting some Nihang's deluded ramblings about a conspiracy between the Akalis and the British. 

As for the events of the takeover of Durbar Sahib in 1920, this has been discussed on another thread years ago, just do a search. 

Great points. I think we agree largely that democracy, comittees, and funding as is, is not working however.  Too much opportunity for conflicted interest. 

[proactive]

25 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Great points. I think we agree largely that democracy, comittees, and funding as is, is not working however.  Too much opportunity for conflicted interest. 

The SGPC was the best that we could have achieved at that time. When times change then our institutions and organisations need to be changed as well. Either you reform these organisations or they become corrupt, wither and die. No one is denying that the SGPC as well as the Akali Dal have been corrupted mainly due to one family, the Badals. 

There is a nefarious agenda which raises its ugly head every few months when some innocent looking question is asked about the founding of the SGPC. This is aimed at advancing the agenda and conspiracy theories of the 'last sikh warrior' Niddar nan.g. Probably one of his followers spreading his BS. Who in their right mind would think some deluded Nihang in 1998 would know what happened in 1920. His BS is easy to counter, there are newspapers and books written by both supporters as well as detractors of the Akali movement. Until Niddar came up with his BS, there has never been anything written about some Baba Kaladhari being thrown out of the Akal Takht. For one, the Nihangs had already lost control of Akal Takht after the Shaheedi of Akali Phoola Singh. Their centre had sifted to Anandpur Sahib. The main Nihang centre in Amritsar was Burj Baba Phoola Singh. When the Pujaris saw the strength of the Sikh opposition against their refusal to accept degh from the 'low castes', they ran away and they tried to bring in the Nihangs to help them from Burj Baba Phoola Singh by telling them that anti-social elements had captured the Durbar Sahib. This was what led to the clash there. And as for the latest BS that the Akalis used women so that the Nihangs wouldn't attack them. These Akalis were majority former soldiers who had fought in the trenches of WW1. I doubt they needed to use women out of fear of the Nihangs. The other Akalis such as Kartar Singh Jhabbar had a history of doing parchar in the Bar area of Nankana Sahib where he faced opposition from the Muslims. Many a time he would have to defend himself and in the process smash a few heads. 

[proactive]

6 hours ago, ipledgeblue said:

‘Committee [the S.G.P.C.] was made. Its leader was chosen making the Act. He was controlled [by the British]. The Shiromani Committee that was made, the Nihang Singhs of Budha Dal from the beginning did not accept and termed it ‘Sirmuni’ (one with shaved head referring to one who has no shame) Committee. Why? Because it was under the control of the ‘Angrez’ (the British) and it was formed with the signature of the ‘Angrez’. And out of all its donation money, six ‘Anna’ went to the Angrez and they [S.G.P.C.] accepted every Angrez term. That is why in ‘Guru Panth’ you cannot have these committees. In Guru Panth, the Budha Dal is supreme.’
Nihang Baba Ram Singh, transcript of interview on 17-4-1998

What this BS merchant is implying is that the SGPC would have to give 6 annas out of each rupee of the donations they received to the British government! As there used to be 16 annas in a rupee he is saying that nearly 38% of the donations used to given to the British! 

[dharamyudh]

2 hours ago, proactive said:

The SGPC was the best that we could have achieved at that time. When times change then our institutions and organisations need to be changed as well. Either you reform these organisations or they become corrupt, wither and die. No one is denying that the SGPC as well as the Akali Dal have been corrupted mainly due to one family, the Badals. 

There is a nefarious agenda which raises its ugly head every few months when some innocent looking question is asked about the founding of the SGPC. This is aimed at advancing the agenda and conspiracy theories of the 'last sikh warrior' Niddar nan.g. Probably one of his followers spreading his BS. Who in their right mind would think some deluded Nihang in 1998 would know what happened in 1920. His BS is easy to counter, there are newspapers and books written by both supporters as well as detractors of the Akali movement. Until Niddar came up with his BS, there has never been anything written about some Baba Kaladhari being thrown out of the Akal Takht. For one, the Nihangs had already lost control of Akal Takht after the Shaheedi of Akali Phoola Singh. Their centre had sifted to Anandpur Sahib. The main Nihang centre in Amritsar was Burj Baba Phoola Singh. When the Pujaris saw the strength of the Sikh opposition against their refusal to accept degh from the 'low castes', they ran away and they tried to bring in the Nihangs to help them from Burj Baba Phoola Singh by telling them that anti-social elements had captured the Durbar Sahib. This was what led to the clash there. And as for the latest BS that the Akalis used women so that the Nihangs wouldn't attack them. These Akalis were majority former soldiers who had fought in the trenches of WW1. I doubt they needed to use women out of fear of the Nihangs. The other Akalis such as Kartar Singh Jhabbar had a history of doing parchar in the Bar area of Nankana Sahib where he faced opposition from the Muslims. Many a time he would have to defend himself and in the process smash a few heads. 

I'd look to put out that the story of Baba Sahib Singh Ji Kaladhari 96 Crori getting removed from Sri Akal Takht Sahib is in the Nihang oral tradition. Akali Baba Santa Singh Ji 96 Crori became a Singh under Akali Baba Chet Singh Ji 96 Crori and succeeded him. Akali Baba Chet Singh Ji 96 Crori themselves succeeded Baba Sahib Singh Ji Kaladhari. That's how he most likely got his information. 

 

This post speaks on the event 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQyGYOGscF5/

[proactive]

2 hours ago, dharamyudh said:

I'd look to put out that the story of Baba Sahib Singh Ji Kaladhari 96 Crori getting removed from Sri Akal Takht Sahib is in the Nihang oral tradition. Akali Baba Santa Singh Ji 96 Crori became a Singh under Akali Baba Chet Singh Ji 96 Crori and succeeded him. Akali Baba Chet Singh Ji 96 Crori themselves succeeded Baba Sahib Singh Ji Kaladhari. That's how he most likely got his information. 

 

This post speaks on the event 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQyGYOGscF5/

How can you have an oral tradition of an event that happened in 1920?? The event occurred in the full light of history, it happened at the our holiest place where thousands of our people were present and where anyone who lived in the vicinity of the Durbar Sahib would have known had taken place. 

There is no dispute about the existence of Nihangs in charge of Akal Takht in 1820s but is in dispute is the fairy tale of Baba Sahib Singh Kaladhari being the Akal Takht Jathedar in 1920 and the Akalis using women to eject him from the Akal Takht. It is true that one of the women in the Akali jathas did assault him and she was restrained by the other Akalis. The fact is the Pujaris after fleeing the complex tried to incite the Sikhs in the villages by saying that the complex had been taken over by lower castes. They went to the complex armed and ready to eject them and when it was found that it was the Pujaris who had fled and it was the Akalis had taken over then these people returned to their villages. The Pujaris had also spread their lies to the Nihangs who then came and took over Akal Takht, It was then that the clash took place. You can choose to believe the 'oral tradition' and lies from the 'last sikh warrior' or you can actually do some research. 

The instagram you linked is pretty bereft of any evidence on the event and apart from claiming that the reformers accounts were biased but Nihang oral tradition which has no evidence to back it up is reliable. The lack of evidence is made up for idiotic statements such as ..

1. After establishing several Chhaonis across Punjab, The Nihangs finally came back to Takhat Akal Bunga. Sadly, the Akal Takht’s Nihangs became victims of the Gurdwara Reform.

So the Nihangs just walked into the complex sometime between the 1850s and 1920s and became custodians of the Akal Takht while there was an all powerful Sarbrah appointed by the British in charge?  Any idea what the Akal Takht Jathedar was doing in 1919 when the Sarbrah Arur Singh was honouring General Dyer at the complex and commit blasphemy by accepting Dyer's joking request that if he took Amrit he should be allowed to keep smoking.

[dharamyudh]

On 12/30/2021 at 11:45 PM, proactive said:

How can you have an oral tradition of an event that happened in 1920?? The event occurred in the full light of history, it happened at the our holiest place where thousands of our people were present and where anyone who lived in the vicinity of the Durbar Sahib would have known had taken place. 

There is no dispute about the existence of Nihangs in charge of Akal Takht in 1820s but is in dispute is the fairy tale of Baba Sahib Singh Kaladhari being the Akal Takht Jathedar in 1920 and the Akalis using women to eject him from the Akal Takht. It is true that one of the women in the Akali jathas did assault him and she was restrained by the other Akalis. The fact is the Pujaris after fleeing the complex tried to incite the Sikhs in the villages by saying that the complex had been taken over by lower castes. They went to the complex armed and ready to eject them and when it was found that it was the Pujaris who had fled and it was the Akalis had taken over then these people returned to their villages. The Pujaris had also spread their lies to the Nihangs who then came and took over Akal Takht, It was then that the clash took place. You can choose to believe the 'oral tradition' and lies from the 'last sikh warrior' or you can actually do some research. 

The instagram you linked is pretty bereft of any evidence on the event and apart from claiming that the reformers accounts were biased but Nihang oral tradition which has no evidence to back it up is reliable. The lack of evidence is made up for idiotic statements such as ..

1. After establishing several Chhaonis across Punjab, The Nihangs finally came back to Takhat Akal Bunga. Sadly, the Akal Takht’s Nihangs became victims of the Gurdwara Reform.

So the Nihangs just walked into the complex sometime between the 1850s and 1920s and became custodians of the Akal Takht while there was an all powerful Sarbrah appointed by the British in charge?  Any idea what the Akal Takht Jathedar was doing in 1919 when the Sarbrah Arur Singh was honouring General Dyer at the complex and commit blasphemy by accepting Dyer's joking request that if he took Amrit he should be allowed to keep smoking.

Uh.. I mean that is considered history no? I'm just offering an explanation for how he may have got the information. Believe what you wanna believe.

[dharamyudh]

16 minutes ago, proactive said:

How can you have an oral tradition of an event that happened in 1920?? The event occurred in the full light of history, it happened at the our holiest place where thousands of our people were present and where anyone who lived in the vicinity of the Durbar Sahib would have known had taken place. 

There is no dispute about the existence of Nihangs in charge of Akal Takht in 1820s but is in dispute is the fairy tale of Baba Sahib Singh Kaladhari being the Akal Takht Jathedar in 1920 and the Akalis using women to eject him from the Akal Takht. It is true that one of the women in the Akali jathas did assault him and she was restrained by the other Akalis. The fact is the Pujaris after fleeing the complex tried to incite the Sikhs in the villages by saying that the complex had been taken over by lower castes. They went to the complex armed and ready to eject them and when it was found that it was the Pujaris who had fled and it was the Akalis had taken over then these people returned to their villages. The Pujaris had also spread their lies to the Nihangs who then came and took over Akal Takht, It was then that the clash took place. You can choose to believe the 'oral tradition' and lies from the 'last sikh warrior' or you can actually do some research. 

The instagram you linked is pretty bereft of any evidence on the event and apart from claiming that the reformers accounts were biased but Nihang oral tradition which has no evidence to back it up is reliable. The lack of evidence is made up for idiotic statements such as ..

1. After establishing several Chhaonis across Punjab, The Nihangs finally came back to Takhat Akal Bunga. Sadly, the Akal Takht’s Nihangs became victims of the Gurdwara Reform.

So the Nihangs just walked into the complex sometime between the 1850s and 1920s and became custodians of the Akal Takht while there was an all powerful Sarbrah appointed by the British in charge?  Any idea what the Akal Takht Jathedar was doing in 1919 when the Sarbrah Arur Singh was honouring General Dyer at the complex and commit blasphemy by accepting Dyer's joking request that if he took Amrit he should be allowed to keep smoking.

Also by all means you can go and message Kshatriya Khalsa about it as well. I'm just going off what I gathered from the Nihang perspective man. 

[proactive]

That instagram also claims-; 

The East Indian Gazetteer of 1828 states the following about Takhat Akal Bunga , “In this sacred place is lodged, under a silken canopy, the book of laws written by the Gooroo ; and from 500 to 600 Akalies, or priests, who belong to the temple and are supported by contributions, perform its functions”

The only quote I could find was this on Vol 1 page 28 under Amretsir

Amretsir,  or  the pool  of  immortality, from  which  the  town  takes its  name,  is  a  basin  of  about  135 pace  square,  built  of  burnt  bricks; in  the  centre  of  which  stands  a  temple, dedicated  to  Gooro Govind  Singh, In  this  sacred  place  is  lodged,  under a  silken  canopy,  the  book  of  laws, written  by  that  Gooroo.  There  are from  five  to  600  akalies,  or  priests, belonging  to  this  temple,  who  are supported  by  contributions

As you can see from the quote, the actual gazetteer  quote is about the whole complex and not the Akal Bunga. Note how the 'scholar' has not quoted the lines which state that it is about Harmandir Sahib being the centre of the complex. Akal Takht is to one side of the complex. The quotes also states wrongly that the Guru Granth Sahib is a book of laws but also states that 'the book of laws' rather than 'books of laws' had this been about Akal Takht because we know that both the Guru Granth and the Dasam Granth had parkash there. This is something most of these new 'scholars' try by first not giving page numbers so that their references can be checked and then omitting lines to mislead anyone reading their statements.