Sikhi and Crime and Punishment

[MisterrSingh]

8 minutes ago, Premi5 said:

@dallysingh101 @GurjantGnostic - what you think, what's your opinion on the OP and quote ?

You're such a little tart at times, lmao.

[dallysingh101]

40 minutes ago, Premi5 said:

@dallysingh101 @GurjantGnostic - what you think, what's your opinion on the OP and quote ?

Look, I'm about second chances. I think the archetype in this regard from a Sikhi point of view is Bidhia Chand. You know, he had his background, but he met his Guru and turned his life around and used his skillsets for the panth. You know, get the best out of people, understand why some people fall within context.   

But pedos, rapists, people who murder/violate women, children, vulnerable old/poor people etc. etc.

No mercy, if proven guilty - straight jhatka. 

State level corruption should be dealt with mercilessly as well.

 

There was no quote in the box btw.    

[MisterrSingh]

3 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Look, I'm about second chances. I think the archetype in this regard from a Sikhi point of view is Bidhia Chand. You know, he had his background, but he met his Guru and turned his life around and used his skillsets for the panth.

But pedos, rapists, people who murder/violate women, children, vulnerable old/poor people etc. etc.

No mercy, if proven guilty - straight jhatka. 

There was no quote in the box btw.   

State level corruption should be dealt with mercilessly as well. 

@Premi5 There you go, a respected member of the forum understands the need for a firm hand when a newly formed nation has to establish law and order at home.

[Premi5]

32 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

You're such a little tart at times, lmao.

Don’t know what you mean. 

4 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Look, I'm about second chances. I think the archetype in this regard from a Sikhi point of view is Bidhia Chand. You know, he had his background, but he met his Guru and turned his life around and used his skillsets for the panth.

But pedos, rapists, people who murder/violate women, children, vulnerable old/poor people etc. etc.

No mercy, if proven guilty - straight jhatka. 

There was no quote in the box btw.   

State level corruption should be dealt with mercilessly as well. 

this quote from MisterrSingh sharing his views on my views 

 

[Premi5]

1 minute ago, MisterrSingh said:

@Premi5 There you go, a respected member of the forum understands the need for a firm hand when a newly formed nation has to establish law and order at home.

I’m just too soft !

[dallysingh101]

Just now, Premi5 said:

I’m just too soft !

Bhai ji. There is nothing wrong with having a kind heart, but you have to marry that with the stark reality of human nature and real-politick.

Sikhi itself hones in on that topic of when you should kill a mf and when not in CP. These things should never be taken lightly, but it's in our dharam to annihilate asuras and daints for good people and society.

Some people seem unsaveable, like psychopaths and sociopaths, who have no care or feelings towards other human beings. Okay, some sociopaths might be made useful (with a very careful eye kept on them), but people who just live a life totally focused on themselves, regardless of the pain and suffering they cause to vulnerable people around them - make me want to heave. I ain't got no time for these types. But if we are ever going to rule and administer justice - we have to start factoring in a lot of things. CP and our ithihaas will be our guide. 

This is a big topic bro. Possibly the biggest when it comes to raj.   

[Jacfsing2]

13 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Yes, but not in the way  the type of Singhs who'd inevitably be drawn to enforce the rules would want to rule. I'd try to create an environment that doesn't foster potential widespread issues for the nation as a whole, not running around after superficial nonsense, making life difficult for those who already are on the bottom rung of existence.

I know wherever Babbar Khalsa would be in charge during the Kharku movement, they'd close down any pubs and other putte kam, and probably for most people that's a bit too dharmic. We should have a religious-centric focus but not go full blown theocracy mode.

[Jacfsing2]

3 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Look, I'm about second chances. I think the archetype in this regard from a Sikhi point of view is Bidhia Chand. You know, he had his background, but he met his Guru and turned his life around and used his skillsets for the panth. You know, get the best out of people, understand why some people fall within context.   

But pedos, rapists, people who murder/violate women, children, vulnerable old/poor people etc. etc.

No mercy, if proven guilty - straight jhatka. 

State level corruption should be dealt with mercilessly as well.

 

There was no quote in the box btw.    

I think it's important to understand that when we do have raj that we understand our context, mainly that none of us are even a hair compared to Guru Sahib, so he can understand the inner hearts, but we must judge the actions as they are done, rather than hypotheticals. 

[Premi5]

More questions

If Sikhs had their own homeland / were ruling like Maharaja Ranjeet Singh Ji, and Baba Banda Singh Bahadur Ji, how would crimes be dealt with?

In rural India and I think much of traditional rural communities worldwide, village 'elders' /committees would meet to decide. In India, this is Panchayat. I think that communities such as these prefer to deal with these issues themselves rather than involve outsiders. They see it as disrespect or lack of authority if they entrust these matters to the 'Police'. The Traveller community in the UK and Ireland are much the same I think. 

Would we have 'Panj Piare' to decide (assuming in a Sikh homeland, everyone is religious pretty much 99% and majority of adults are Amritdhari, it should be easy)? What about any minorities or foreigners - would they be subject to same rules?

Also, it seems the Police can be more corruptible. In the Mughal times, I am sure they were. Would there still be a role for the Police ?

How would court cases be dealt with? I think jury seems like a fair and Sikh-like way to decide. What types of punishments would you suggest for more minor crimes like shoplifting, 'fly-tipping'/pollution, social disorder like drunk and disorderly, dangerous vehicle control etc. 

If a man is guilty of mistreating his wife (or the other way around), would the spouse's parents decide on punishment, or would the panchayats communicate and decide ?

What would be better than imprisonment? Community-service type work ? Remedial/rehabilitative classes ? 'Slave-labor' ?

Hoping for views of many including @GurjantGnostic @Jai Tegang! @proudkaur21 @jkvlondon  @shastarSingh @Ranjeet01

[Premi5]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/30/vigilante-surveillance-the-rise-of-beijings-neighbourhood-patrols

 

Chaoyang masses: the rise of Beijing’s neighbourhood patrols

Red-armbanded neighbourhood watchers have become a common sight on streets of China’s capital

 

A Chinese cyclist passes four women from neigbourhood watch committees in Beijing in 2004. Photograph: Reuters Photographer/Reuters

 

Vincent Ni China affairs correspondent

Sat 30 Oct 2021 05.00 BST

 

They are often seen wearing a red armband patrolling residential neighbourhoods of Chaoyang, the biggest district of Beijing, which is home to nearly 3.5 million people. On a sunny late autumn afternoon, they will sit with a group of retirees in the sun and chat away. But when an individual of interest turns up, their attention quickly diverts to them.

In Chinese media and official police statements, these vigilante neighbourhood watchers are called the “Chaoyang masses”. Last week, the state-owned Global Times went a step further, quoting internet users as saying the mysterious group “could match four famous intelligence [agencies], the CIA, MI6, KGB and Mossad”. Some jokingly called it “the fifth largest intelligence agency in the world”.

 

For years, volunteers in the Chinese capital have become a part of its daily social fabric. They help run their neighbourhoods by picking up litter and guiding those who are lost. They also observe, listen and follow every clue that might lead to a potential legal case. The rise of the Chaoyang masses exemplifies the extraordinary ability of the ruling Communist party to mobilise grassroots forces to keep the vast country running, but also to keep its populace in check.

Last week, when the “piano prince” Li Yundi was detained for allegedly hiring a sex worker, Beijing police credited the “masses” in Chaoyang for tipping them off. Internet users were once again fascinated by the role of these vigilant citizens in bringing down yet another celebrity. Discussions about them quickly erupted on social media.

In recent years, neighbourhood watchers have often been credited with turning in prominent artists and celebrities. These include the Hollywood actor Jackie Chan’s son Jaycee, who was arrested on drug-related charges in 2014. The Chaoyang masses have also been praised for keeping an eye on foreign agents, with news reports from as early as 1974 detailing the way they assisted the police in the arrest of Soviet spies.