Leaderboard

Trying with a few Arabic and Urdu words (meaning provided at the end). jee aya nu! khushaamdeed! mere Maalik, mai Tera mureed jee aya nu! khushaamdeed! mere Aakaa, mai tera valeed jee aya nu! khushaamdeed! Tu neet navaa, Tu sada jadeed jee aya nu! khushaamdeed! akhaan nu kad hovega deed jee aya nu! khushaamdeed! Teri shaan hee hai meri tauheed jee aya nu! khushaamdeed! Tere auna Divali, Tera auna hee Eid jee aya nu! khushaamdeed! deevaane hoye Naamdev Fareed jee aya nu! khushaamdeed! eh dard hoi janda shadeed jee aya nu! khushaamdeed! mai vikan nu taiyaar, Tu hun te khareed jee aya nu! khushaamdeed! aajaa sheyti, mai hovaan saeed jee aya nu! khushaamdeed! Tere Panth lei ikk vaar hona shaheed khushaamdeed = jee aya nu = welcome mureed = fan/disciple Aakaa = master/owner Valeed = newly born, just as Vaalid = father Jadeed = brand new Saeed = happy Tauheed = Islamic concept implying oneness of God Deed = deedaar = darshan Shadeed = intense - Mehtab Singh Tuesday, Nov. 1st, 2011

As rightly mentioned, it would require an individual to reach a particular avastha before they can make comments about Guru Sahibaan being the same as Akal Purakh or not. Gurbani has clearly stated several times that there is no difference between the Guru and Vaheguru. We cannot force anyone to believe in something, however, we only encourage others to have faith in Gurbani. Rather than trying to question what Gurbani states, how about trying to get to a level where you can actually grasp the deeper meanings behind what is said?

On the occasion of Sahib Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee Maharaj's upcoming prakash utsav (Nov. 10th), here is a tuchh bhet in my SatGuru Patshah Jee's charan. “aao jee padhaaro jee” is a begging to Guru Sahib. Just as He came to this earth, this soul is begging Him to come into this mann. aao jee padhaaro jee, mere SatGur jaan-o-pyaaro jee mai akirtghan avval haan, par Tuhadda raaj-dulaaro jee aao jee padhaaro jee, mai sadh sadh vaaro vaaro jee maya di neendar mai sutta, mann lobh moh hankaaro jee aao jee padhaaro jee, es mann nu aake savaaro jee eh ath mayla ath maleen, edi mayl nu Aape maaro jee aao jee padhaaro jee, es rogi nu nivaaro jee janjaal vikaaran de gunjle, Tusi taar taar utaaro jee aao jee padhaaro jee, es jeevan nu ubaaro jee mere bachan da nah saadhan koi, mai neech moorakh gavaaro jee aao jee padhaaro jee, mere sohney Preetam dildaaro jee sab jhoothhay laare lounde ne, bas ikk Tu hee sachiaaro jee aao jee padhaaro jee, thhand paavo deyo karaaro jee saah ghutt’di agg paapaan di, sunn lao hunn meri pukaaro jee aao jee padhaaro jee, mai tarsaan Tere deedaaro jee Tera roop sohna kinna sohna hai, mai bas sochaan vichaaro jee aao jee padhaaro jee, mere Patshah dayalu udaaro jee charan paavo daas neech ke, mai penda Tere duaaro jee aao jee padhaaro jee, mai tadfaan baaram-baaro jee es birha nu an'dekha kar, imtihaan na lao hamaaro jee aao jee padhaaro jee, bhavsagar ton karo paaro jee Tusi baanh pakad ajj tak taare, hazaar vaari hazaaro jee aao jee padhaaro jee, hunn aa vi jaao Muraaro jee sachee Mehtab te saakat hai, par ehvi te nah visaaro jee - Mehtab Singh Monday, Oct. 31st, 2011

Satguru Guru Nanak Dev Jee De Prakash Purab Diyan Sab Sangat nun Lakh Lakh Vadhayian One of y favourite Raagis - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiKJfiPCtd8

Bhai Sahib Mehatab Singh...congratulations for sharing such paviter and inspirational thoughts... really attee sundar...

Leaflets and papers with bani and pictures of shaheeds were being given out. Many people didn't want a leaflet but were given one anyway by sevadars. Then I saw the same leaflets on the floor being stepped on with bani on them. I picked all the ones i could see up. Just a benti please don't print bani and pictures on leaflets. Just think about what people do, throw it on the floor.

Sabsai upar gur shabad beechar || Paramount is contemplation on Guru's word From my experience 99.9% of sikhs show zero interest in study of the maharaj (not talking about recitation as in sehaj path) , I think this ignorance and neglect of the core gurmat knowledge is root cause of all problems in sikh samaaj today. Here is a link to download SGGS in english translationa and transliteration http://www.facebook.com/groups/341594932591046/342922462458293/

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :yay: :biggrin2:

True, this is a place of learning. However, when people are not ready to learn or accept a differing viewpoint but only want to argue to prove their viewpoint as better than another's, which I am sorry to say has pretty much become a norm out here, there is no basis left for any discussion. But then again, that is just my viewpoint , and I shall respectfully accept your disagreement if you choose to disagree

The intentions of the Brahmin organization cannot be neglected. Having said that, if they were really mistreated and forced out of the Gurdwara Sahib premises, it is an extremely shameful thing and should be condemned in the most strictest sense.

I'm surprised the Akal Takht has not taken up this issue before whether a formal application has been submitted or not. 3HO has been exposed for a long time now, its nothing new.

Awesome!

Very Beautiful!!!! :respect:

aao jee! aao jee! ikk vaar mai fer bulaavo jee! aake apne sohne darshan! SatGuru Patshah karaavo jee!

~~ Aad Sach Jugad Sach Hai Bhai Sach Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach, Aad such Jugad Sach Hai Bhi Sach Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach, Aad Sach Jugad Sach Hai Bhi Sach Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach, Aad Sach Jugad Sach Hai Sach Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach, Aad Such Jugad Sach Hai Bhi Sach Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach, Aad Such Jugad Sach Hai Bhi Sach Nanak Hosi Bhi sach, Aad Sach Jugad Sach Hai Bhi Sach Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach, Aad Sach Jugad Sach Hai Bhi Sach Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach, Aaad sach Jugad Sach Hai Bhi Sach Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach, Aad Sach Jugad Sach Hai bhi sach Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach, Aad Sach Jugad Sach hai Bhi Sach Nanak Hosi bhi Sach, Aad Sach Jugad Sach Hai bhi sach Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach, Aad Sach Jugad Sach Hai Bhi sach Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach ~~

jasdeepsingh bro, We need to do deeper vichar why sri guru gobind singh maharaj gave tharna bachans/cautionary bachans in sri dasam granth sahib about people calling him God. We need to understand that moment or that time- where hindus were idioliziing their avtars (sri ram chandar ji and sri krishan ji) to the point they are confining Vahiguroo nirgun paratma all within their sargun avtars so to avoid sikhs go through that same kind of pitfalll- sri guru gobind singh ji forewarn his sikhs whilst sargun is part of sikhi but with that being said ultimate profound experience of vahiguroo lies within shabad and the gyan of self- nirgun vahiguroo (anubhav parkash). Please look at the post i managed to made regarding this very subtle and deep matter: Ighai Nirugn Ughai Sargun kel Karat Bich Swami Mera Here ( you are) formless; there (you are) with form. You play it both ways, O my swami || Ang - 827

Not this again, why are people willing to do internet prachar but not willing to show up and have a chat about it? nindo nindo...

ਸਾਹਿਬ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਜੀ ਮਹਾਰਾਜ ਦੇ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਪੁਰਬ ਦੀਆਂ ਸਮੂਹ ਸੰਗਤਾਂ ਨੂ ਲੱਖ ਲੱਖ ਵਧਾਈਆਂ | ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਜੀ ਆਪ ਜੀ ਨੂ ਅਤੇ ਆਪਦੇ ਸਾਰੇ ਪਰਵਾਰ ਤੇ ਹੋਰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖ ਸੰਗਤਾਂ ਨੂ ਸਦੀਵੀ ਕਾਲ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਅਪਣੀ ਮਹਿਰ ਭਰੀ ਨਦਰ ਹੇਠ ਰਖਣ, ਗੁਰਸਿਖੀ 'ਚ ਹੋਰ ਸਫਲਤਾ ਬਕਸ਼ਣ, ਨਾਮ ਬਾਣੀ ਦਾ ਵੱਧ ਤੋਂ ਵੱਧ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਅਤੇ ਅਭਿਆਸ ਬਕਸ਼ਣ, ਨਾਲੇ ਗੁਰਮਤ ਸਿਧਾਂਤਾਂ ਉੱਤੇ ਚੱਲਣ ਦਾ ਹੋਰ ਬਲ ਬਕਸ਼ਣ |

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Daas will be doing a series of weekly polls regarding Amrit Vela, this is so Daas and the pyaree Sangat will know what Amrit Vela is like for others and how you do your Amrit Vela. Also it can encourage the Sangat to get up during this amazing time! Feel free to suggest any questions! LET THE POLLS Begin! amrit vaelaa sach naao vaddiaaee veechaar || In the Amrit Vaylaa, the ambrosial hours before dawn, chant the True Name, and contemplate His Glorious Greatness. karamee aavai kaparraa nadharee mokh dhuaar || By the karma of past actions, the robe of this physical body is obtained. By His Grace, the Gate of Liberation is found.

its length is 3ft , on its hilt a flag symbol and its number is mentioned , my uncle was in patiala army, , after his death, this pass to me, in 1947 many muslim people killed by this sword , and this sword also used in many clashes , in one pic the cut on its blade tells its story, when i was in 8th class it given to me by my uncle, this is old sword,

Sant Gurbachan Singh Jee and Bibek Everything is from this site: http://gurmatbodh.blogspot.ca/2012/01/bhagat-jaswant-singh-jee-on-bibek.html http://gurmatbodh.blogspot.ca/2012/01/sant-gurbachan-singh-jee-khalsa.html Sant Gurbachan Singh Jee all their life kept a Strong Bibeki Pehra. Daas had the chance to Talk to a few of Sant Jee's students, one being Bhagat Jaswant Singh Jee (of http://gursevak.com). I asked them if Sant Gurbachan Singh Jee kept Sarbloh Bibek. What Bhagat Jee said was originally Sant Jee did keep Sarbloh Bibek and did so for a while. They only stopped when they got really old but still went all over India to do parchar. With an old body and the amount of travelling they did it became hard for them to keep Sarbloh Bibek, but nonetheless they still kept a strong Bibeki Pehra. They would only eat food made by Amrit Dhari Singhs that was made while they recited Bani. Bhagat Jee said the entire Jatha was bibeki and only ate from Amrit Dharis. Infact the Laangri Singhs and Degh Sevadaars were very strict Bibeki Singhs. When they were doing Seva they never spoke anything but recited Gurbani and did jaap of vaahigurooo vaahigurooo vaahigurooo. Sant Gurbachan Singh in their writings and Katha make it clear how important Bibek is in Sikhi. Sant Kartar Singh writes about Sant Gurbachan Singh Jee's Bibeki Pehra: ਜੇਕਰ ਮੋਨੇ ਜਾਂ ਸਿਗਰਟ ਪੀਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਦੇ ਹਥੋਂ ਲੰਗਰ ਦੀ ਕੋਈ ਮਠਿਆਈ ਆਦਿਕ ਬਣਦੀ ਤਾਂ ਨਾ ਆਪ ਛਕਦੇ ਤੇ ਨਾ ਹੀ ਜਥੇ ਨੂੰ ਛਕਣ ਦਿੰਦੇ। ਆਪ ਜੀ ਸੁਚਮ ਪਵਿੱਤਰਤਾ ਬਹੁਤ ਰਖਦੇ ਨਾ । ਕਦੇ ਕਿਸੇ ਦਾ ਜੂਠਾ ਖਾਂਦੇ ਤੇ ਨਾ ਹੀ ਖੁਵਾਉਂਦੇ। ਚਾਹ, ਅਫੀਮ ਆਦਿਕ ਨਸ਼ੀਲੀ ਚੀਜ਼ ਦੇ ਵਰਤੋਂ ਦੇ ਸਖਤ ਵਿਰੋਧੀ ਸਨ । If a Mona, or someone that smoked made any langar, sweets, etc. Sant Jee would not eat it or let any of the Jatha eat it. They kept a lot of cleanliness. They would never eat any Joot or let anyone else in the Jatha eat any Joot. Sant Jee were against the usage of Cha (Tea), Opium and other intoxicating drugs. Importance of Sarbloh Sant Gurbachan Singh Jee keeping the importance of Sarbloh says that during an Amrit Sanchar all utensils used should be of Sarbloh. The Baltee, Garva, Bate, Karahee,Khanda, Kirpan etc. everything that is used to make Degh and Amrit should be of Sarbloh. Degh should always be made in Sarbloh, with a Sarbloh Karaahee, Sarbloh Karshee. When Bhog is done the Kirpaan should be of Sarbloh. Bhagat Jaswant Singh (Student of Sant Gurbachan Singh Jee) on Sarbloh Bibek Bhagat Jaswant Singh Jee (Lovingly called Bhagat Jee) is a student of Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Jee Bhindranwale, here he shares his views on Sarbloh Bibek. Below is the original from one of their Books, and a Humble translation: "ਜਿਸ ਪਦਾਰਥ ਦਾ ਸੱਚੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਭੋਗ ਲੁਆਇਆ ਹੈ,ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਬਿਬੇਕੀ ਕਿਉਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਖਾਂਦੇ? ਪਦਾਰਥ ਤਿਆਰ ਕਰਨ ਲੱਗਿਆਂ, ਜੇ ਪੂਰਨ ਮਰਿਯਾਦਾ ਸੁੱਚਮ, ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹ ਦਾ ਪੂਰਨ ਪਹਿਰਾ ਨ ਹੋਵੇ, ਤਾਂ ਆਪਾਂ ਕਿਸੇ ਗੁਰਮਖਿ ਬਿਬੇਕੀ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਨ ਕਹੀਏ,ਆਪਣੀ ਸੋਧ ਕਰੀਏ ਜੀ" That food even it has been blessed by Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee (i.e. Kirpan Bhet), but it was not made according to complete maryada and utmost cleanliness was not kept while making the food,and Sarbloh Utensils were not used, then we should not tell a Bibeki Gursikh, to eat that food, instead we should correct ourselves, and make the food in Sarbloh, with complete maryada and cleanliness. Bhagat Jee then shares some more thoughts on Sarbloh Bibek, they are presented below with translations: "ਨੌਨ ਸਟਿਕ ਭਾਂਡਿਆਂ, ਸਟੀਲ, ਪਿੱਤਲ ਦੇ ਭਾਂਡਿਆਂ ਦਾ ਤਿਆਗ ਕਰੋ ਜੀ, ਕੇਵਲ ਸਰਬਲੋਹ ਭਾਂਡੇ ਵਰਤਣੇ ਬਹੁਤ ਹੀ ਜ਼ਰੂਰੀ ਹਨ..." Here Bhagat Jee says to never use non-stick, steel, or brass utensils, only use sarbloh utensils. Bhagat Jee says it is very important to use Sarbloh utensils. "ਸਰਬਲੋਹ ਦੀ ਮਹਾਨਤਾ: ਪਰਮਪੂਜਨੀਕ ਸੱਚੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਾਂ ਦਾ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ਿਆ ਜਾਣ ਕੇ, ਸਰਬਲੋਹ ਨੂੰ ਮਹਾਨਤਾ ਦੇਣੀ ਚਾਹੀਦੀ ਹੈ।ਹੱਥੀਂ ਸਰਬਲੋਹ ਚ, ਆਪ ਬਣਾ ਕੇ ਬਿਬੇਕ ਦਾ ਲੰਗਰ ਛਕੋ। ਸਰਬਲੋਹ ਚ ਬਣੀ ਦਾਲ਼ ਕਾਲ਼ੀ ਕਹਿ ਕੇ ਨਫ਼ਰਤ ਨ ਕਰੋ।ਵੱਡਭਾਗੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਪ੍ਰੇਮੀ ਸਰਬਲੋਹ ਦੇ ਪਤੀਲੇ ਚ ਦਾਲ਼ ਸਬਜ਼ੀ ਬਣਾਉਣ, ਮੱਠੀ-ਮੱਠੀ ਅੱਗ ਤੇ ਰਿੰਨ੍ਣ,ਅਤੀ ਸੁਆਦ ਬਣਦੀ ਹੈ ।" The Greatness of Sarbloh- Recognize that Sarbloh Bibek is a great gift given to us by Guru Jee so because of this we should respect and recognize the greatness of Sarbloh Bibek. Don't get turned off by the colour of food made in Sarbloh, i.e daal turns a blackish colour. Daal and Sabzee made in Sarbloh is extremely tasty! "ਪੂਰਨ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨੀ ਭਾਈ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਲਿਖਦੇ ਹਨ, ਭੈੜੀ ਤੋਂ ਭੈੜੀ ਚੀਜ਼ ’ਤੇ, ਮੰਦੀ ਨਿਗਾ ਪੈਣੇ ਕਰਕੇ ਭ੍ਰਿਸਟ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ, ਇਸ ਲਈ ਸਰਬਲੋਹ ਬਿਬੇਕ ਦਾ ਲੰਗਰ ਆਪ ਤਿਆਰ ਕਰਕੇ ਛਕੋ ਛਕਾਉ, ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜਪੋ ਜਪਾਉ, ਭੈੜੀਆਂ ਬਿਮਾਰੀਆਂ ਤੋਂ ਬਚੋ ਬਚਾਉ। ਇੱਕ ਤਾਂ ਚੀਜ਼ਾਂ ਭੈੜੀਆਂ ਹਨ, ਦੂਜਾ ਬਣਾਉਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਤਮਾਕੂ ਸ਼ਰਾਬ ਬੈਡ ਕ੍ਰੈਕਟ੍ਰ ਹੋਣੇ ਕਰਕੇ, ਹੋਰ ਭੀ ਭੈੜੀ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ, ਇਸ ਲਈ ਸਰਬਲੋਹ ਬਿਬੇਕ ਦਾ ਲੰਗਰ ਆਪ ਤਿਆਰ ਕਰਕੇ ਛਕੋ ਛਕਾਉ..."Bhai Gurdas Jee writes that even the dirtiest and dirtiest of things can be made even dirtier when a bad person looks at them, in this Shabad: ਮਦ ਵਿਚਿ ਰਿਧਾ ਪਾਇ ਕੈ ਕੁਤੇ ਦਾ ਮਾਸੁ॥ The meat of dog cooked in the wine was, ਧਰਿਆ ਮਾਣਸ ਖੋਪਰੀ ਤਿਸੁ ਮੰਦੀ ਵਾਸੁ॥ Along with its foul smell, kept in the human skull. ਰਤੂ ਭਰਿਆ ਕਪੜਾ ਕਰਿ ਕਜਣੁ ਤਾਸੁ॥ It was covered with blood stained cloth. ਢਕਿ ਲੈ ਚਲੀ ਚੂਹੜੀ ਕਰਿ ਭੋਗ ਬਿਲਾਸੁ॥ Covering thus, the scavenger woman (chuhari) after appeasing her lust was carrying that bowl. ਆਖਿ ਸੁਣਾਏ ਪੁਛਿਆ ਲਾਹੇ ਵਿਸਵਾਸੁ॥ On being asked about (the abominable covered material) she cleared the doubt, ਨਦਰੀ ਪਵੈ ਅਕਿਰਤਘਣੁ ਮਤੁ ਹੋਇ ਵਿਣਾਸੁ ॥੯ ॥ By saying that she had covered the meat to hide it from the sight of an ungrateful person to avoid its pollution.(9) Bhagat Jee is saying that Langar made today in a Gurdwara is made by those that smoke,drink, and have bad character, so for this reason this food should not be eaten by Gursikhs. So Gursikhs should prepare langar in Sarbloh and eat that. "ਪਰਮਪੂਜਨੀਕ ਧੰਨ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਮਹੱਲੇ ਦਸਵੇਂ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਤਕਰੀਬਨ ਸਵਾ ਤਿੰਨ ਸੌ ਵਰੇ੍ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਲੋਹੇ ਦੇ ਬਾਟਿਆਂ ਚ ਛਕਣ ਦੀ ਮਰਯਾਦਾ ਬਣਾਈ, ਅੱਜ ਡਾਕਟ੍ਰ ਲਬਾਟ੍ਰੀ ਟੈਸਟ ਕਰਕੇ ਦੱਸਦੇ ਹਨ...ਮਹੱਲੇ ਦਸਵੇਂ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਅਮੋਲਕ ਸ਼ੁਭ ਸੱਚੇ ਹੁਕਮ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਲੋਹੇ ਦੇ ਭਾਂਡਿਆਂ ਚ ਪਦਾਰਥ ਬਣਾਉ ਅਤੇ ਛਕੋ ਜੀ। ...ਸਰਬਲੋਹ ਚ ਪਦਾਰਥ ਬਣਾ ਕੇ,ਕੱਢ ਕੇ ਮਿੱਟੀਚੀਨੀ ਦੇ ਭਾਂਡੇ ਚ ਰੱਖੋ।" Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee started Sarbloh Bibek Maryada 300 years ago, Guru Jee knew the health benefits of cooking and eating in Sarbloh, these same benefits are only now being discovered by Doctors. This is Hukam of Guru Jee for his Sikhs to cook and eat in Sarbloh. After making food in Sarbloh it should be stored in Mitee or Chinee vale Bhande. "ਬਿਬੇਕ ਦਾ ਲੰਗਰ ਬਣਾਉਣ ਤੇ ਛਕਾਉਣ ਲਈ ਬਰਤਨ ਚੰਗ਼ੀ ਤਰਾਂ ਰੇਤੇ ਸਾਬਣ ਨਾਲ ਮਾਂਜੋ।ਹੱਥਾਂ ’ਚ ਚੂੜੀ, ਛਾਪ ਨ ਹੋਵੇ। ਨਲਕੇ ਜਾਂ ਟੂਟੀ ਨੂੰ ਸਾਬਣ ਨਾਲ ਚੰਗੀ ਤਰਾਂ ਸਾਫ਼ ਕਰਨਾ। ਫਾਰਮੀ ਘਿਉ ਨਹੀਂ ਵਰਤਣਾ।ਬਜ਼ਾਰ ਦਾ ਬਣਿਆਂ ਪਨੀਰ,ਪਕੌੜੀਆਂ, ਸੇਵੀਆਂ,ਦਹੀਂ ਚੀਨੀ ਕੱਚ ਦਾ ਭਾਂਡਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਵਰਤਣਾ।ਲੰਗਰ ਬਨਾਉਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਸਾਰੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਧਾਰੀ ਹੋਣ ਜਾਂ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਛਕਣ ਦਾ ਵਾਅਦਾ ਕਰਨ।ਧਰਮ ਪ੍ਰਚਾਰਕ ਜੱਥੇ ਪੰਜ ਪਿਆਰਿਆਂ ਲਈ ਚਾਹ ਪੱਤੀ ਬਿਲਕੁਲ ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਵਰਤਣੀ।ਇੱਥੋਂ ਤੱਕ ਚਾਹ ਵਾਲੇ ਭਾਂਡੇ ’ਚ ਜਲ ਪਾਣੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਬਨਾਉਣਾ ਤੇ ਚਾਹ ਵਾਲੇ ਹੱਥ ਕਿਸੇ ਬਰਤਨ ਨੂੰ ਨਹੀਂ ਲਾਉਣੇ।ਲੰਗਰ ਤਿਆਰ ਕਰਕੇ ਇੱਕ ਥਾਂ ਰੱਖ ਦੇਣਾ ਵਰਤਾਉਣ ਦੀ ਸੇਵਾ, ਜੱਥੇ ਦੇ ਸਿੰਘ ਆਪ ਕਰਨਗ਼ੇ।ਸੁੱਚ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰਤਾ ਦਾ ਖਿਆਲ ਰੱਖ਼ਣਾ ਪ੍ਰਸ਼ਾਦਾ ਤਿਆਰ ਕਰਨ ਲੱਗਿਆਂ ਪੈਰ, ਮੂੰਹ ਆਦਿ ਨੂੰ ਹੱਥ ਨਹੀਂ ਲਾਉਣੇ।" To make Bibeki Langar the utensils should be properly cleaned. Those making langar should not be wearing jewellery (i.e bangals, rings etc.). Wash the water pump or where ever you get water from properly with soap and water before using the water. Food that is made outside like paneer, pakoria, seveean should not be used. Use home made version, use home made butter. Everyone that is making langar should be amrit dhari or should promise to take amrit soon. Those that do Seva in Panj Pyare are not allowed to drink Cha at all, infact they should not even use the utensil that has ever been used to make cha. If cha is made for the rest of the sangat, the person making it should not touch anything else. After making the Langar, the sevaadaars should leave it in a clean place. Singhs of the Jatha (Jatha Bhindran) will distribute it themselves. Whilst making the food, the sevadaars should never touch their face, feet, etc.

Are SIkhi camps achieving anything for youngsters? I have been looking in on sikhi camps for young kids for a while now, and feel that for the cost of the camp, the intensity, and duration of the camps, be they one day, 2 day or 3 day, are not achieving much, beyond those days. If you were to ask a camper, 1 week/1 month after the camp, what they learnt, what do you think the answer would be? Is this still a way to go, or should we look at alternative methods of teaching gurmat? thoughts?

Just wondering on which criteria admins are locking topics? seems that admin will say something on the topic and then lock even when discussions are ongoing. this site is a place for people to discuss different views and debate thats the only real way to learn

I totally agree !!! Too many sikhs have gone away from the real root and core, and just don't know what they are doing!!!

I feel a bit lighter when I analyse from another point of view - We have been betrayed by Nehru/Gandhi (the whole community), nothing to worry. AT LEAST WE HAVE NOT BETRAYED THEM, THAT IS THE APPRECIATION, else we would had this black spot on our history. We have been made GULAAM, ok no problem, The good part to appreciate is WE HAVE NOT MADE OTHERS GULAAM, good part of learn is when KHALSA RAAJ comes, we don't make others GULAAM. We respect the rights of all communities living in KHALSA RAAJ, respect their soverign rights and identities, and don't hijack somebody's identity. Lots of SIKH Genocide since 1947, Ok, good part to appreciate is WE HAVEN'T DONE GENOCIDE OF INNOCENT PEOPLE.

those poor people! trapped in a lift with their worst fears!

I'd be like this...

haha hi5* i thought i was alone! well awkward. i try laughing it off which usually works (lol) or just say yeah a little/sometimes. Any response you give will never be enough. punjabis are just pros at finding faults in people. no winning at the end of the day, you alone know how much you do and what it means to you.

Healthy khaaya kar! fruits, vegetables and lots of water. Limit your salt/sugar intake (less chocolates and sweets for you! muahahahahahaha). Clean the skin with orange peels (or any other citrus fruit skin). Your acne might be genetic, if it is there isn't much you can do about it.

I not sure on the full Black side . But i can tell you 2 that black with large white dots shud not be warn. It is a crime on fashion.

Another little point to think about is, that if the Gurus were God, then who were they praying to ? Who were they meditating to ? Who was Guru Gobind Singh ji doing ardaas to ? The very fact that Guru Gobind Singh Ji makes an example of past heroes of Hindu scriptures as becoming obsessed with themselves and believing themselves to be God indicates as much that the idea that Guru and God are literally the same entity is about as non-Sikkh an idea as you can have.

Mere sab ton Pyaare de pargat hon vaale diwas de maukke te mere baaki sab pyaareyaan nu pyaar bhariyaan beant vadhaiyaan!

So you guys bought list of hypocrites two faced corrupt bhramins who back stabbed sikhs, thats good but now can we get list of corrupt two faced pot bellied jatts so called sikhs who back stabbed sikh nation? Yes we have to vigilant but that applies to everyone who wishes harm sikh interest...this sheer hysteria against bhramins and paint all bhramins as anti sikh is not a sikh way- Guru Maharaj and Guru maharaj knights- sant khalsa would never approve such kind of appalling and disgusting stereotype, there were many bhramins who helped sikhs in 84 riots, they were many bhramins who raised their senior son as khalsa as form of appreciation for sikhi and there were many bhramins who became khalsa and died for Gurmat Sidhant as history shows, many akaalis, khalistanis had bhramin backgrounds. Even on this forum, we have Mehtab Singh born in bhramin family who became khalsa..singh ji you need to speak against any kind of racist connatations especially if it stereo types all bhramins .i know if someone were to reject me just because of my jatt background..i be freaking outraged..i will be vehemently fighting back against this racist attitude.!!...its a same sort of attitude at border line where some twisted nangs find completely justified to have bhog with muslim women as long as she gets fed the pork before the act..!!

I think you missed the gist of my post. Being "hardened" as you call it was not the point I made here. I merely wrote down the situation of the Sikh people in 1947 and what could have been if we only had the right leader to take advantage of the situation. Even MI5 at the time seems to have thought that a Sikh national state was imminent. But Sikhs were too trusting of Nehru and gandhi. Of course no one wants to suffer a genocide. But look at it this way, the fact that Sikhs did not take advantage of the situation of 1947, the result is we suffered the catastrophic genocide of 1984 and after.

Mahapursh tell that avtar do not evolve in the body during the nine months in the mother's womb. The body after birth gets parkash so it is basically wrong to bring the avtars and normal humans on the same level! I don't have the audio of Sant Kartar Singh Bhindranwale or other Mahapursh who tell about this. Moreover if anyone wants to attain self realisation it is important for a sikh to not to differentiate between Guru and Waheguru. 'Gur Govind Govind Guru hai Nanak Bhed Na Bhai' Guru is God, God is Guru, Nanak does not the differentiate between these.

Seems like something for the doctor (your GP). Unless there is a doctor on here? As these kind of conditions vary from person to person. Someone giving you advice here based on their own experiences may not be useful to you in regards to skin.

those types of families are ones i am related to GOD I HATE THEM! lol

hey guys i seriously need some help with my skin i have tried everything, i have tried nivea, astral cream, simple, Johnsons, vaseline but my skin is still heating up or its getting dry, which makes it look really bad, i have got spots now... EVERYWHERE!! can someone please give me a good cream or something.. i am using neutrogena exfoliator, but i need a good cream because my skin cam get oily!! Please help i have really sensitive skin.... Fateh

Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Guru Nanak Sahib Ji Maharaj and Akaal Purakh Waheguru are one and the same. Look at it this way; Imagine if you standing infront of the ocean and you take a glass and fill it up with water from the ocean, its still the same water inside the glass and the sea. Same way think of Akaal Purakh being the ocean and Maharaj Ji being the glass. Please sangat ji forgive me if I've said anything wrong.

I have never been asked this question but i would say: Guru Sahib kirpa karke paath karaa lainde. Mein kaun aa karan wala. Or you can ask them about their bank balance and when they say its personal or something, say bani you read is also like your bank balance and you wouldn't disclose the amount. But never say how much you do. Guru Rakha

taken from 1984tribute.com Operation Black Thunder I - 30th April 1986 What became subsequently known as Operation Black Thunder I (April 30, 1986) whereby the Indian security forces recaptured the Golden Temple complex, Amritsar, from different varieties of militants was an important event in the current history of Punjab, after Operation Blue Star (June 3-7, 1984). The International Human Rights Organisation activists, D. S. Gill, Gurcharan Singh Grewal, Avtar Singh Gill, G. S. Bal and Bhupinder Singh Somal, in a team had enquired into the events and had compiled a detailed report. The report in a summarised form is being reproduced below. The period between June 1984 and April 1986 saw several ups and downs in Sikh politics. The Akali Dal led agitation has fizzled out in the wake of operation Blue Star. Militant Sikhs who were in disarray tried to reassemble their forces culminating in the January 26, 1986, Sarbat Khalsa (Sikh congregation at the Akal Takht), in the Golden Temple Complex. Within the militants, there were strands of thought and action. The Panthic Committee comprising hard-core militants led an armed struggle against the Indian State while a large number of militants followed Baba Joginder Singh, father of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale. The Baba led militants were operating semi-underground while the Panthic committee led militants were acting completely underground. On the other hand, the Shiromani Akali Dal led by Surjit Singh Barnala, and Balwant Singh, with Parkash Singh Badal, Gurcharan Singh Tohra, etc., trailing behind the Akali "haves," ran the State with the active co-operation and guidance of the Congress-(I) led Union Government. The Centre was quite worried about the re-emergence of militancy as an organised force even after the power had been allowed to be transferred to the Akali Dal. The Barnala ministry was embarrassed by the occupation of the Darbar Sahib complex by militants although the SGPC was in the hands of the ruling party. The Badal-Tohra faction that was virtually kept out of effective levers of power was not willing to confront the militants. This faction, in fact, was in favour of a compromise so that it could tilt the balance of Sikh power in its favour to the detriment of the ruling faction. Delhi was watching Punjab with keen interest. It strengthened its security forces and intelligence system in Punjab. The Barnala Ministry's Home Affairs were, in fact, in the Union Home Ministry’s hands, probably with an arrangement arrived at even before the Akali Ministry was installed into power. The execution of selected targets by militants was continuing. Every such development came as a big blow to the prestige of the Congress (I) Government at the Centre. The media and the public opinion elsewhere in the country attributed every militant action to their positions in the Darbar Sahib complex. On the other hand, the ruling group at Delhi was being cornered as a result of the growing opinion that the Operation Blue Star was unwisely conceived and executed. In this scenario, the Government of India was pressing the Barnala Government hard to evict the militants from the Darbar Sahib complex but Surjit Singh Barnala was dragging his feet. There was a pincer movement against him from the Centre and the militants. He finally opted for Delhi and against the militants. Barnala accepted the first step Delhi took to recontrol the situation- the appointment of J. F. Rebeiro as Director General, Police, and Punjab. Rebeiro was a Christian, not a Hindu. His command of the security forces in Punjab prima facie absolved him of the charge of being a Hindu communalist out to crush Sikhs. Second, Rebeiro was skilled in Portuguese fascist police training methods. There was obviously a Central plan at hand for Punjab. Delhi was planning to invade the Golden Temple complex. It was waiting for a suitable opportunity. Its only concern was that the action at the Darbar Sahib should ostensibly be taken by the Barnala Government and that it should not look like a Hindu action against the Sikh historic temple. Delhi persuaded Balwant Singh to play it card. He shaped the scheme of things by holding a so-called "Sarbat Khalsa" at Anandpur Sahib on February 16, 1986. General Jagjit Singh Arora was another active player of Delhi's game that he was later duly rewarded. Arora became a Member of Parliament (MP, Rajya Sabha). Circumstances leading to the "action" Immediate "provocation" to the operation undoubtedly was provided by the "declaration" on April 29 of "Khalistan" by the Panthic Committee. The news was received by Mr. Barnala when he was having tea with Mr. N. T. Rama Rao and Mr. Jyoti Basu at the Parliament House annexe where a reception was organised for "non-Congress (I)" Chief Ministers by opposition MPs. Most opposition parties fondly regarded Barnala as a non-congress Chief Minister. The announcement was dismissed by most as a non-event. Mr. Rama Rao said there was no need to panic and advised Barnala to ignore the "declaration." Mr. Basu said no cognisance should be taken of such an incident. Meanwhile, Mr. Barnala described the proclamation as "absurd, senseless and sacrilegious" that showed that "those elements and their foreign collaborators have become desperate in the face of firmness shown by his government." As stated above, the Centre was ready with its plans. Far from treating the Panthic Committee's announcement as a non-event, Rajiv Gandhi summoned Barnala at night, revealed his cloak-and-dagger tactics. Barnala agreed to accompany Arun Singh and Arjun Singh to make a mid-night trip to Amritsar to meet Rebeiro. The operation Black Thunder I had been planned although Barnala announced at a prolonged Cabinet meeting held at Chandigarh the next day- hours before the Amritsar action- that members of the Panthic Committee had vacated the complex. The IHRO Committee did not feel the necessity of obtaining the official version as Rebeiro at different Press conferences had narrated the story starting with raids on Guru Nanak Niwas, Guru Ram Das Saran and Akal Rest House at 4.50 PM on April 30. The operation lasted 14 hours. It was supervised by the Punjab Director General of Police (DGP) himself. According to him the operation was mainly carried out by the police through assistance was obtained from Para-military forces. About 200 Para-military youth (Private) made search operation in the inns of the Golden Temple Complex. In all, three thousand security persons were deployed around the complex. Mr. Rebeiro revealed that the operation was done in the wake of threats posed by the declaration of "Khalistan" by the Panthic Committee. About 100 persons were rounded up on April 30 including Akal Takht acting Jathedar Gurdev Singh. He further claimed that there was no resistance and no exchange of fire, and security forces used the minimum force. However, about 200 "stun grenades" were exploded which were non-lethal in nature but caused some damage to two rooms of the "Parikarma." The operation was carried out in two phases. The first lasted two hours. It involved a search operation that was done smoothly. The second phase started at 10.30 PM when more than 300 commandos resorted to firing. Among 300 persons rounded up from the Harimandir Sahib at 6 AM on May 1, included acting Jathedar of Akal Takht who surrendered on the advice of Giani Puran Singh, head priest of the Golden Temple. The security forces seized some weapons from the complex including one pistol, one revolver, a .303 rifle, a .12 bore gun, 20 cartridges of various bores, 15 swords and 10 spears along with a number of documents and Khalistan literature, according to Rebeiro. Out of 378 persons rounded up, 233 were arrested and others were let off. Of the arrested, 37 were non-Sikh Bangladesh citizens. The police registered cases of sedition against 56 persons, while the detention of the remaining 174 was of a preventive nature, the state police chief added. He asserted that at no stage did he seek Army assistance for the action. The purpose of the action had been achieved. The complex would be handed over to the SGPC "The declaration of "beginning of the battle" for Khalistan was the provocation for storming the Temple to liberate it from the anti-nationals," he stated. He, however, admitted that the police could not keep secrecy and the persons who actually made the "declaration" had escaped. He said that one person had died and two were injured. He stated that only three rounds were fired during the entire operation. Facts about the "operation" The official version of the incident by the DGP is approximately supported by the evidence available. However, there are few exceptions to the way it was carried out and some undisclosed facts and circumstances that was revealed when the matter was properly investigated and analysed by the Committee. Bibi Harinderjit Kaur testified, that hundreds of swords-wielding youths wearing saffron turbans were seen on the Parikarma (pavement around the sacred pool) when police and security forces poised to enter the Parikarma and there was no exchange of fire as 12 trucks carrying the security forces entered the complex. Jaspal Singh of United News of India (UNI) disposed that five Battalions of commandos were airlifted under the command of two Major Generals of the Indian Army. Three belonged to the Army known as "Black Cats" and two to Border Security Force (BSF). About of 600 commandos were involved. But he was not sure whether all the commandos were pressed into the operation. He further stated that the commandos entered the Complex with their shoes on. Another journalist Mahinder Singh rebutted the allegation that the operation was mainly conducted by the police. The commandos under the orders of Army Generals conducted the main operation in the Parikarma and Harimandir Sahib. The Police and commandos armed with automatic weapons searched the inns of the complex, Bibi Rajwinder Kaur stated. She also saw blood stains on the floor of Room Number 28 of Guru Nanak Niwas where an AISSF convened meeting had just ended. She further contradicted the allegation of the Police that no woman or child was rounded up. She, along with Bibi Harinderjit Kaur and a boy of eight were detained and lodged in Akal Rest House's room number 28 under the surveillance of security persons. Bibi Harnam Kaur, an old lady worker of Istri Akali Dal saw blood stains in front of Jora Ghar (Shoe-Deposit House), near Guru Nanak Niwas and also on the second floor of Langar building where, according to her, four persons were feared to be killed and two Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) persons injured in a scuffle. The Committee also inspected the spot and found a bundle of black hair. However, a few journalists ruled out the possibility of resistance from any quarter except Parikarma and Darshani Deori. An eye witness stated that a boy of 15 was shot dead near Dukhbhanjni Beri and Mr. Ranjit Singh, Manager, Darbar Sahib, stated the names of injured as Mr. Nishan Singh, Mr. Harjit Singh and another Bihari Singh, all Sewadars of SGPC. The recovery of arms by the police including one gun and a rifle seems to be correct. The gun and rifle are licensed in the name of Jathedar Gurdev Singh. The press reports regarding the theft of the gold of Sri Akal Takht Sahib were vehemently denied by Baba Arjan Singh, an assistant of Sant Uttam Singh of Khadoor Sahib. The gold is lying intact under the custody of "Kar Seva" babas. These reports seem to be politically motivated. The different versions about the dead and the injured could not be supported by any evidence, but according to Bhai Bakshish Singh, two dead bodies were lifted form Darshani Deori by the security persons, whom he saw when he was reciting the holy book by the side of Akal Takht. Political repercussions The Sikhs, all over the world, were shocked. The operation, had quick repercussions. There was a crisis in the Akali Dal. The Akali "have-nots" were upset over the "State Government's action." They were perturbed that even a Panthic Government could send forces in the Golden Temple complex. As many as 27 ruling party Members of Legislative Assembly (MLAs) resigned from the Akali Dal (L) to form a new Akali party of their own. The Barnala Government was left in a minority. It received support from Congress (I) as well as from the Communist Party of India (CPI) and the Bhartiya Janata Party (BJP). There was no danger so long as the Centre wanted Barnala to continue. But the Ministry lost legitimacy among the Sikh masses. This operation was God-sent to the militants. None of them were inside when the operation took place. They quietly left the place after making the announcement. However, the group led by Baba Joginder Singh was nabbed by the police. The operation thus resolved the Panthic Committee versus Baba Joginder Singh tussle to the detriment of the Baba. The armed militant youths continued and stepped up violence outside the complex. A significant aftermath of the operation was that the ruling family a Delhi claimed that the operation Blue Star was not a mistake as the "Panthic Government" itself had to enter forces inside the Sikh holy place. This propaganda further eroded the Barnala Ministry's credibility. With stepped-up violence, the Ministry was sacked after about 13 months. In fact, the events subsequent to the operation Black Thunder- I, were foreseen by Delhi, which had appointed S. S. Ray and J. F. Rebeiro to take over Punjab well in advance. Operation Black Thunder II - 9th May 1988 Planning for Operation Black Thunder was initiated in early 1988 at Manesar at Aravali hills, 40kms from Delhi by National Security Guards (NSG) under patronage of union Home Minister, rather Ministry of Internal Security. A large model of Sri Darbar Sahib Complex was created; also used for practice were a high school at Tauru and a college at Nuh in Haryana whose structures resembled the Parikarma of Sri Darbar Sahib. Weekend visits to Sri Darbar Sahib became a regular feature of the Special Action Group (SAG) of the NSG. They also started growing their hair for operational reasons. State-sponsored terrorist groups began massive murderous assaults from December 1987 liquidating families of militants and their sympathisers. Their homes were put to fire. The units were placed under the overall charge of Izhar Alam, Senior Superintendent of Police, Amritsar. Rebeiro had certain reservations and conveniently went on leave to Bombay. The police made regular announcements of ‘recoveries’ of Russian made RPG rockets and Russian surface to air missiles, earlier imported by RAW (India external intelligence agency) from Kabul, from all over Punjab. This served as a prelude to pursuit of new tougher policy. Free speech was brutally repressed by the Indian government as the Union Home Ministry gave instructions to media-persons and journalists at Amritsar to behave or face the consequences. Kuldip Singh Arora, Amritsar correspondent of United News of India (UNI) was picked up on April 13, 1988 under the ridiculous National Security Act for meeting militants inside the Golden Temple, a serious charge under the Terrorist and Disruptive Activities Act (TADA). About 100 other journalists had conducted such interviews and so Amritsar’s Working Journalists Association clearly interpreted this as a signal to fall in line and not “write anything that displeases it (the government)”. After the 25th April the security forces established themselves on several rooftop pickets including the one facing the Clock Tower wherefrom General Sunderji had directed Operation Bluestar. The security forces had in the last couple of months kept the militants inside the complex under observation to prevent their escape. The time for Operation Black Thunder arrived after the debate in Parliament on Punjab was over in the first week of May. Despite countless provocations, there was no firing from inside. To prepare the nation, the state-sponsored terrorists fired on Gadi Lohars, a nomad tribe celebrating a marriage at Panipat in Haryana on May 8th killing 13 people. That served the dual purpose of also keeping Haryana Chief Minister Devi Lal in check. The following day DIG (CRPF) Sarabdeep Singh Virk chose to take notorious Santokh Singh Kala, a former militant who was now leading a state-sponsored terrorist outfit along with him atop the buildings around the complex. Suffice to say Kala knew exactly how to provoke action between the religious militants and the CRPF and set the ball rolling on behalf of the CRPF. Rajiv Gandhi tabled eight of eleven meetings regarding Operation Black Thunder. Home Minister Buta Singh and Minister of State for Home P. Chidambaram were in support. After the green light was given Air Force airlifted Special Action Group (SAG) of 1000 commandos of National Security Guards (NSG) and their equipment to Amritsar on May 11 and 12. Meanwhile exchange of firing had gone on intermittently. 800 pilgrims had been evacuated on May 10 but recitation of gurbani had stopped. Jasvir Singh Rode was at Punjabi University, Patiala on May 9 but rushed back to Amritsar on hearing of firing. On May 11 the local administration bluffed Rode to take him the following day at 8am to enter the Temple from Santokhsar Gurdwara to restore rituals. Precisely at this time security forces started firing. Rode, Sivinder Singh, Jaswant Singh, Kashmira Singh, Bhai Mokham Singh and Gurdev Singh Kaunke, former Acting Jathedar of Akal Takht alongside 24 others were prevented from proceeding further. After protests, Rode decided to move ahead despite the firing. Deputy Commissioner Sarabjit Singh Inspector General (Border) Chaman Lal and Senior Superintendent Suresh Arora were present. Kaunke told the police ‘You men are liars. It is you who are shooting, not the militants.’ He was struck with a CRPF rifle butt. Rode and his men were arrested for violating the curfew. The NSG had prepared itself and begun Operation Black Thunder. Half a dozen militants tried to escape during the night but were fired on yet two escaped. This was followed by a long intense gunfire exchange between militants and security forces. Two Jaguars flew near the temple at the time. The security forces took over Guru Ram Das Saran and ‘neutralised’ two Bunga. The killing of militants by security forces outside the temple was supplemented with selective killing inside by the infiltrators. For example when of all the people inside Jagir Singh a senior person who was spokesman of the Panthic Committee came out of room 14 to fetch a pail of water from the holy tank. He was shot in the back of the head, obviously from inside and lay near the sarovar. On May 15 in response to an appeal by Inspector General (Border) Chaman Lal and Deputy Commissioner Sarabjit Singh to surrender, 151 persons including 17 women and children came out with their hands and weapons in the air. These included Surjit Singh Penta who had according official documents swallowed cyanide. However others believe he had been killed by Police. 46 people, mostly infiltrators then spent 2 or 3 days desecrating the Main Temple of Sri Darbar Sahib with their excreta & later surrendered to K.P.S. Gill on May 18. The Fallout Since The Government of India was participating in activities directed at the violation of human rights in respect of India's Sikh community (5).The United Nations Human Rights Committee has called the situation in Punjab "disturbing" and "completely unacceptable." Asia Watch, in its 138-page report, "Punjab in Crisis", released August 25, 1991, states: "Security forces have engaged in widespread torture and summary execution of Sikhs." Asia Watch charges that human rights abuses by the security forces are part of a deliberate government policy of repression. Nowhere in the world has any government pursued the kind of genocidal policies against a religious minority as in India since the Second World War (41). On 10th December, 1984, the United Nation General Assembly through Resolution 39/46 adopted a new 'Convention against Torture and other Cruel' or Degrading Punishment which gave teeth to another earlier declaration by specifically detailing rights to impartial examination of alleged offenses, punishment of those found guilty, and the right to compensation. The Indian government has so far cynically refused to either sign or ratify this convention (42). Sardar Simranjit Singh Mann, Indian Police Service, Deputy Inspector General of Police, resigned in June 1984 in protest of Operation Bluestar. He told the President of India and rest of the world the whole story about war operations against the Sikh homeland, Punjab. He wrote in his resignation letter to the President of India that at least 30,000 innocent pilgrims (infants, children, youth, elderly men and women) died in the bloody battle (4-6th June). For telling the truth, he was imprisoned in jail far from his place of residence. His relatives were harassed and not allowed to visit him. Inhumane and humiliating treatment was accorded to him by the Indian government. Since the genocide of Sikhs in 1984 in the Sikh homeland hundreds of thousands of Sikhs have been imprisoned without trial and without proof of any crime committed (jails in Rajasthan, Punjab and other states). Caches of arms, including rockets, are smuggled into India from Pakistan - not by terrorists but by the Indian secret services. The Sunday Observer (24th April, 1988) has discovered that the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), India's external intelligence outfit, has been receiving a secret consignment of arms. India's cabinet secretary, to whom Raw is supposed to report, could not explain the incident. Analysis of the political situation of India reveals that repeated attacks on the sacred Sikh institution, whether religious, educational, cultural or socio-political, point to one direction: the highly visible minority of the Sikhs has no place in India. The ulterior motives of the Russian backed Indian regime indicate further that the Indian administration is out to destroy the precious heritage of the Sikhs. Furthermore, this situation is in accordance with an earlier analysis that if one tries to "kill the language, kill the culture and kill the literature", ultimately one succeeds in destroying a community. Without institutions, especially sacred religious institutions, no community can advance, let alone survive; Sikhs are no exception to this rule. The Thakur Commission Report on its investigation into the assassination of Indira Gandhi, was deliberately suppressed until after two Sikhs, Satwant Singh and Kehar Singh, were hanged for their alleged part in the assassination. Kehar Singh was convicted and hanged on the flimsiest of possible evidence despite pleas of national and international lawyers of the highest repute such as Lord Gilford and lawyers for the highly respected human rights organization, Amnesty International. Kehar Singh's only crime was that he was an initiated Sikh and an uncle of Beant Singh who had been murdered while in captivity. Observing that not a single Hindu has been detained under the draconian laws introduced in the state of Punjab, the report goes on to ask: "Is there one law for the minorities another for the Hindu majority? Can a Hindu never be a militant, terrorist, or secessionist under Indian law? Is the mass murder of Sikhs, rape of Sikh women and pillage of Sikh properties in the post-Indira Gandhi assassination riots to remain unpunished under India's secular laws? The report has cited the "Justice Sodhi report" of February 1989 which observes that during Mr S. S. Ray's regime, many of 780 under trials in the high security central jail at Amritsar had, before their formal arrest, been illegally detained by the police for multiple weeks, tortured and robbed for their possessions. Several also alleged that they had been falsely implicated. Max Madden, a British Member of Parliament, investigating the human rights violations, reported that the forces of law and order are pitched against freedom fighters; state violence and repression had alienated many Sikhs and Hindus in Punjab, while provoking widespread violence and terror. "I shall never forget the Sikh father whose 14-year-old daughter was raped and drowned by a police officer. The father was brutally beaten by police three times over two days." Terry Dicks, another British Member of Parliament, reporting on the status of Sikhs in India (Human Rights debated in the House of Commons, 29 November, 1991), cited the rape of young women, the beating of old men and the number of young boys, to say nothing of the imprisonment without trial of many thousands of innocent people, has been going on since 1984 and continues unabated. Indian security forces are killing hundreds of innocent Sikhs in fake encounters and there is evidence that those forces have swept through villages in Punjab intent on nothing less than widespread slaughter. All those activities are taking place under the umbrella of President's rule, which in effect means direct rule from Delhi. The New Delhi regime gives security forces the unfettered power to take whatever action they wish against people living in the state of Punjab. In an address to members of an International convention, Mr Dicks told delegates in Canada to lobby for an end to economic aid to India, a break of diplomatic relations with that country, and a United Nations investigation of "India's abuse of human rights." Dr H. S. Shergill, in his composition, 'Main han dharat Punjab di', states that hardly any family was spared in Punjab from human rights infringement. Mothers, sisters and brothers will never again see their dear ones again who have been taken to the 'interrogation centres’ that are better characterized as the "butcher houses" of Punjab. The grounds used to cremate these victims give the false impression of being calm and peaceful, but they are demanding an end to these ruthless, brutal slayings and an end to human rights violations all over India. Even the waters of Punjab's rivers and canals are riddled with the blood of the innocent. Still, Narsimharao and his administration claim that their conscience is clear and their hands are clean. Derek Lee, one of the three members of the Canadian House of Commons, who visited Punjab in 1992, said that he talked to a young Sikh father who pleaded unsuccessfully with an Indian court requesting that his young son, not be handed over to police in Punjab. A few days later, the boy, who had been handed over to the police in Punjab, was found dead. This murder was made to look like a traffic fatality. In a press release, the Council of Khalistan informed that the "staged surrender of Bhai Kanwar Singh Dhami, a freedom fighter, back fired before the news media." Bhai Dhami said, in the presence of news media that Senior Superintendent of Police, Ajit Singh Sandhu threatened him with death if he did not touch the feet of Mr Gill, Police Chief of Punjab. Police officer Sandhu had boasted to Dhami that he had killed over 500 persons over the span of his career. With this surrender drama going away, the much battered image of the Punjab police has received yet another blow. It has also proved once again that allegations of illegal detention and custodial deaths against the police are not just a figment of the imagination. The Indian government murdered unborn childs by torturing pregnant mothers. The unborn child of Sikh leader, Kulbir Kaur Dhami was killed recently after she and her husband were brutally beaten and tortured by Indian security forces. Dr Gurmit Singh Aulakh, President, Council of Khalistan, said that "events like the murder of Kulbir Kaur's unborn child show the whole world clearly that 'the world's largest democracy' is really a tyranny willing to commit any act of brutality or terrorism to maintain its occupation of the Sikh nation, Khalistan." People do not willingly live under tyranny. Dr Aulakh in a message to the Sikh nation said: unify under the banner of Khalistan, raise the slogan of 'India Quit Khalistan', and boycott elections under the Indian constitution. Khalsa ji, mark my words, by April 13, 1999, the 300th anniversary of the birth of the Khalsa Panth, our Nishan sahib will fly high in a free and sovereign Khalistan! Even the House of Representatives member, the Hon. Dan Burton, in recognizing the birthday of the 295th birthday of the Sikh nation on 13th April, predicted that by its 300th birthday in 1999, Khalistan will be free. The Sikh leaders of Punjab presented a memorandum on 21st February, 1994, to the United States Embassy in New Delhi, applauding President Clinton's support of 27th December, 1994, for Sikh rights. Hindu intentions were exposed, when, after occupying the Sikh shrines in June, 1984, all the archives, museums, national records were burnt to ashes. It included the Sikh Reference Library which preserved the most precious documents written even by the Sikh Gurus, the records of the Akali Party and the SGPC. The intentional burning of the national archives was a repetition of the Stalinist acts. On October 31, 1984, Indira Gandhi fell victim to a well planned, complex, political conspiracy. Rajiv Gandhi, his wife Sonia, and other key people in Prime Minister's inner circle are alleged to have hatched and implemented this sinister conspiracy. Two Sikh guards were blamed for Mrs Gandhi's political assassination and one of whom was shot and killed after having been disarmed and taken into custody by other security personnel. Other Sikhs were subsequently implicated after years of mock trials and legal drama, two Sikhs were hanged to death on January 6, 1989. Since 1984 the genocide of the Sikhs is on-going. Killings in fake encounters daily are a common-place. The dead bodies of Sikhs are not handed over to their families, apparently in order to avoid the trace of inhumane torture of the Sikhs by the Indian police, paramilitary and army personnel. International human rights organizations are banned from entering the Sikh homeland. In spite of this, international human rights agencies have exposed the persecution of Sikhs in India. In another clear message that India's state terrorism is not an internal affair, 29 members of the United States Congress wrote to President Clinton on 11th February, 1994, "to cut all developmental aid to India, until the Indian government permits Amnesty International to investigate human rights violations in Punjab, Khalistan." Conclusion The persecution of Sikhs has been highlighted by Amnesty International, Asia Watch and the other human rights' organizations. The international community has, understandably, taken notice. Since 1984 more than 250,000 Sikhs have been killed and the onslaught continues. The killers of Sikhs are offered berths in the central and state cabinets of India. In finding amicable, honourable, dignified and permanent solutions, the authors strongly believe in the following solution presented, on 5th January, 1994, to the Secretary General of the United Nations in a letter to seek his immediate attention and personal intervention in the deteriorating condition of the Sikhs in their own homeland (Punjab-Khalistan) due to brutal killings, staged encounters, rapes, humiliation, oppression, persecution, prosecution, rampage and looting by the Indian armed forces (Indian army, paramilitary police and intelligence corps) and Punjab's present administration of Beant Singh, a Congress (I) puppet of the New Delhi administration, imposed by Narsimharao administration with the endorsement of merely 7% of the total electoral votes. Innocent women and children have fallen victims to brutal Indian armed forces which completely disregard human rights. The Sikh political leader, Sardar Simranjit Singh Mann, himself a victim of post-1984 situation of Punjab (1), created by the Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, V. P. Singh, Chander Shekhar, and Narsimharao administrations, has repeatedly been denied a passport to travel abroad, preventing him from providing first-hand information to world leaders, the international Sikh community and international news media with regard to issues concerning his people within and outside of Punjab (58). The cultural, political, economical and physical asphyxiation of the Sikh nation is being executed in systematic manner at the direction of the New Delhi administrations. As a result of these atrocities and consequential disintegration of the Sikh homeland, Punjab - Khalsa Stan, 24 Congressmen of the United States of America made a strong plea (17th November, 1993) to the Hon William J Clinton, President of the United States, to "assume an active diplomatic role in the Khalistan crisis" and use his good office to persuade the Indian government to arrange for a plebiscite for self-determination for Sikhs in Punjab, Khalistan, like the one held recently in Puerto Rico, where Puerto Ricans voted overwhelmingly to stay with the United States. The following is the outline to the above mentioned plebiscite for self-determination: It is strongly urged, Sir, to avoid further loss of life and dignity, and in order to find a peaceful and amicable solution for the chronic Sikh problem of Punjab, that the following steps be taken under your directions: 1. All Indian armed forces and agencies (intelligence and otherwise, exceeding 500,000 in number) be immediately withdrawn from Punjab 2. All Sikhs detained under draconian laws of Indian parliament be unconditionally released from jails. 3. The United Nations' forces or teams are sent to Punjab to take control of law and order situation until the plebiscite or self-determination vote is held (under the auspices of the U. N.) 4. Sardar Simranjit Singh Mann, President of the Shromani Akali Dal (the political party of Sikhs) be issued at the United Nations' passport, so that he could hold talks, discussions and consultations with yourself, international dignitaries, international news media and the international Sikh community 5. Dr Sohan Singh (80-year-old), a medical specialist and retired administrator, leader of the Panthic Committee of Sikhs, and Afghan national, whom the Indian intelligence took in custody from Nepal in November 1993 and remains imprisoned in India in an interrogation centre, more commonly known as "butcher Centre", be freed immediately so that he may get much needed medical treatment for his ailing health in the United States. In addition, Dr Singh could meet with the international news media to describe the treatment received from Indian administration and its armed forces during his detention. 6. The Indian government must bear the cost of all United Nations' operations (maintenance of law and order, civil and defence administration, etc.) until the "self-determination" vote is held in Punjab-Khalistan. 7. All areas of Punjab separated after 15th August, 1947 and other Punjabi-speaking are returned to the Sikh homeland. 8. Indian government must compensate the Sikh homeland and its nationals for all damages deliberately incurred during the Operation Bluestar of 1984, 30th October-November 1984, Mand, Woodrose, black thunder, Red Star, Night Domination, Final Assault, Healing Touch and Chase operations (60), man-made floods of 1989 and 1993, and maintaining armed forces in the Sikh homeland (Punjab or Khalistan) since 1984 against the wishes of the Sikhs. 9. Amritsar airport be opened to international air traffic, so that foreign nationals can be directly transported to region of concern without the interference of authority, custom, immigration and personnel. 10. The present chief minister, Beant Singh, police chief K. P. Gill, former Police Chief J. F. Rebeiro, former governor of Punjab S. S. Ray, S.D. Sharma and their several associates who aided in committing human rights violations, brutal atrocities, heinous crimes against humanity be tried before an international panel jurists. 11. Until India refrains from committing human rights violations and permits Amnesty International, Asia Watch and other international human rights watch-dog agencies to assess those violations, all United Nations aid must be suspended The authors sincerely hope that the above points will aid in the creation of an environment for international peace and it may even, as we perceive, avoid the greatest tragedy of this century. Sir Mohammed Iqbal, a great poet, philosopher and a native of Kashmir had extensively studied the major religions, their philosophies and concluded that those faiths were eradicated which did not have state support or were not protected by their followers. Dr Iqbal's hint was clearly to Buddhism, which originated in India. The moment Ashoka gave up state protection, it lost its roots in India and was swallowed up by external pressure. He states further that I have studied another faith critically which started with recitation and combination of the musical instrument of Mardana, Guru Nanak's disciple, and Guru Nanak's composition. It flourished despite all odds and adversaries of times because successors of Guru Nanak and his followers have been taught that nothing is above truth, "truth is high, still higher is truthful living", and truth must be protected. Truth is truth regardless of the followers. This is the primary reason for which the Sikh faith has stood firm despite persecution, prosecution, tortures and atrocities. As late Abraham Lincoln (1884), President of the United States of America had said, "no man is good enough to govern another without that other's consent", the morally and ethically bankrupt New Delhi administrations, with a history full of betrayals, human rights violations, oppression, persecution, genocide and annihilation of non-Hindu and non-brahmin ethnic communities have no right to govern the Sikh homeland. The Sikhs have to struggle much harder to regain their lost sovereignty and without it this community has no future. According to Max Arthur Macauliff (The Sikh Religion, 1903, Vol 1, p. lvii), "It (Hinduism) is like the boa constrictor of the Indian forests. When a petty enemy appears to worry it, it winds round its opponent, crushes it in its folds, and finally causes it to disappear in its capacious interior Hinduism has embraced Sikhism in its folds; the still comparatively young religion is making a vigorous struggle for life, but its ultimate destruction is, it is apprehended, inevitable without State support." http://www.neverforget84.com/gallery/Operation-Black-Thunder/

I bore the heck out of them and put a pakkaa barrier on any further question by saying "jado hukam hunda udo appe ho janda"

Well all I can say that you are great and more wise and knowledgeable than me and I am really-2 stupid. May Satguru bless me with more wisdom.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki Fateh With guru's grace Mumbai' sangat is organising its Annual AKJ Smagam in Jan 2013 (9th Jan to 12th Jan) with 12th Jan being the rainsabai day. Following keertanees' will be part of the samagam along with many more :- Bhai Jagpal Singh - UK Bhai Chranjeet Singh - UK Giani Gurdev Singh - Australia Bhai Ravinder Singh - Delhi Bhai Kulwant Singh - Kaki Pind Master Gurbachan Singh - Dyalpur Bibi Kulwinder Kaur - Jammu The poster will follow soon..Watch out for this space....Waheguru... Sangat Ji - Please bless us with your darshan Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki Fateh

this is the real picture of maharaja ranjit singh he is the one with big mustache and one eye http://i169.photobuc...577430001_n.jpg

: / this is a forum.. where 'debates' happen. no one is doing jhagra bro. and the shabad is on aobut the 5 choor, not the punj piyaare :..!?

There are many similar attributes in all religions, after seeing ur other post I am beginning to think ur implying (indirectly) that Guru Nanak Dev Ji took other religions and mixed them to create Sikhi. Am I right?

You dont get Gurdwaras where Amrtidharis are the only cooks where you gonna find a restaurant where Amritdharis are the only cooks.

Mecca was ruled by pagans who did idol worship but doesn't mean they were Hindus. Every community did idol worship back then but not everyone was a Hindu. Word "Hindu" didn't even exist back then. Greeks worshipped idols so were they Hindus? Were Native Americans also Hindus when Columbus arrived? No. During the time of Mohammad, India was a Buddhist country so I don't think there was any "Hindu influence" in Mecca. There were 360 idols and Mohammad destroyed all and kept the black stone which has nothing to do with Hindu beliefs or shiv ling. Ka'ba is an empty room from inside and there are plenty of pictures that show how it is designed and what's inside of it. It is cleaned every year from inside. Hindus are saying Darbar Sahib is a Vishnu temple, Taj Mahal was a Hindu temple, Babri Masjid was a Ram temple etc. These are all myths. Muslims don't agree that Mecca was ever a Hindu temple or if there was a shiv idol ever kept there. Could you provide to me the names of 360 idols from an authentic source?