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How can you say that? It's guys from our own lot in england that have done more than anyone else to confront and raise awareness about this issue.

Sadly how the media only care to put '3 lines' in this articles. No attempt to know the profile of the victim, interview with family members, family story, reaction of other sikh members (friends/relatives/community members) and then adding bit about sikhs contribution to the society in general.. Had this been a rabbi, you would be seeing folks taking up to all kind of diplomatic talks.

What’s Not surprising about this? Average Punjabi (and Indian?) don’t seem to care about such issues unfortunately. Environment is far down their list of priorities unless they live in a closed environment like a Dera. people throw garbage out of their cars for example. Living in ‘developed’ countries, we are a lot more aware about environmental issues. Money is king though it in Panjab, people don’t care much for the secondary consequences.

UK news channels are going to be unbearable for at least 3 months (One month of mourning; one month of Charlie boy's coronation, and another month of looking to the future). It'll be Xmas until some semblance of normal coverage returns.

You could arrive with the intent of taking Amrit, but if you feel they aren't practicing proper Maryada, you could just leave. But if you already disbelieve in the Punj Pyare at the Amrit Sanchar, best not to show up

We shouldn't bother with Europe. We should worry about our own first.

He's a Jewish boy from the East End and was chairman of Tottenham for some time, I believe. The Apprentice is a lot more about entertainment than finding someone credible to be honest. The show has lost focus over the last few years, which is a shame.

will they do Chaupai Sahib properly with full kabyo baach benti and Arril bani read when performing amrit sanchar? Many months ago I listened to Rehraas Sahib paat at Park Avenue gurdwara and Chaupai Sahib was cut, so I don't have full confidence.

According to Pal, this is most prevalent in the Majha.

Sunday 11 Sep - Smethwick Sunday 25 Sep - Wolverhampton Sat 22 Oct - Southall (park avenue) Posters attached

Punjabis have earned really bad reputation in Canada since past few years. Gang killings and violence In BC and then all this stuff in Ontario.

California is the safe place even though few bad news in past but overall you will see lots of non-white races here as the majority. Canada has one or two major towns and rest is boring while states has stuff that keeps person and tourist pretty busy.

Ever heard of making money while on holiday. Plenty of work opportunities to make some extra income. Yes, I have, in fact. But I had totally forgotten about it until you mentioned it, thanks. Unfortunately, the US does not have such a program for British citizens. You have to have a job already lined up. Plus demonstrate your exceptional ability and college education. Plus there are usually more applicants than visa slots, so there's a lottery every year, and the quota is already filled up for this year, next chance Apr 2019. And you have to actually work, it's doubtful your employer will give you a month off after you just started. If your intention is to work a day or two, tour a day or two, and repeat, no employer will sponsor your visa (which is expensive). Canada, on the other hand, has the International Experience program for people 18 to 35. But, as you noted, there's less stuff to see.

Usa is 100 times better. Canada is like the north pole. Usa las vegas los angelos calfornia atlanta philly ao many places to chose from

Best to stick to SGPC gutkas. I'd not buy a gutka from a miscellaneous publisher who just throws together a gukta to sell it and make some money.

Well, you're right that the state of Dasam bani authenticity in apps/Internet is atrocious, but that's true even in printed Gutkas.

What? It's true that it can be very easily altered, but any changes would be extremely easy to spot (unlike the physical form). Changes can be found within seconds. Huh? Nobody is changing Gurbani in the original form. People are not disposing of old recensions of Guru Granth Sahib, and replacing those with an iPad. Rather, Gurbani is just being made available on the Internet for those who want to access it that way. Totally agree, but nobody's saying to remove Guru Granth Sahib ji from the Gurdwaras. I would say the vast majority of people who are accessing Gurbani on the Internet are not those would otherwise have pothis (2 volume sets) of Guru Granth Sahib at home, so basically this expanding the reach of Gurbani.

Doesn't anyone else see the dangers of digitalisation of gurbani? it can be very easily altered and difficult to spot unlike the physical form. Our enemies are destroying the physical forms of gurbani which are authentic whilst we are trying to combat this by putting it into a virtual format. Its completely possible that this is their agenda. I think we should be collecting and preserving gurbani in the original form since this new digital trend has major future pitfalls which i have mentioned: the easy and widespread corruption and distortion of gurbani which our enemies will no doubt be doing after they have done what they can on the physical side. Also the digital versions are completely dependent on electricity/internet/computers and who knows what will happen in the future. This isn't an ethical argument about gurbani being digitalised but on what is likely to happen based on how our enemies operate. We are playing into their hands.

I found this info on STTM Khalis Foundation @khalisfound 15 Mar 2017 Along with #STTM, we built Khajana, the technology that powers it and the next generation of Gurbani Apps. More info:(link: http://khajana.org) khajana.org The BaniDB Alliance is a group of app developers and organizations that work together to create a single, accurate, digital source for all gurbani, transliterations and translations. Our goal is to serve all apps with an open API that is updated and corrected and provides a variety of options. http://www.banidb.com

I was told that Nanaksar Temple have a Maryada where Granthi ji can take new Hukamnama if the first or second is of scolding or rebuke. Strong will accept any Hukam ਜੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਝਿੜਕੇ ਤ ਮੀਠਾ ਲਾਗੈ ਜੇ ਬਖਸੇ ਤ ਗੁਰ ਵਡਿਆਈ ॥੨੫॥ Even if the Guru rebukes me, He still seems very sweet to me. And if He actually forgives me, that is the Guru's greatness. ||25|| But there's a provision for weak too ie Bhagat Jan can change Bhagwaan Ji's command ਮੇਰੀ ਬਾਂਧੀ ਭਗਤੁ ਛਡਾਵੈ ਬਾਂਧੈ ਭਗਤੁ ਨ ਛੂਟੈ ਮੋਹਿ ॥ The devotee can release anyone from my bondage, but I cannot release anyone from his. ਏਕ ਸਮੈ ਮੋ ਕਉ ਗਹਿ ਬਾਂਧੈ ਤਉ ਫੁਨਿ ਮੋ ਪੈ ਜਬਾਬੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥੧॥ If, at any time, he grabs and binds me, even then, I cannot protest. ||1||

Yeah, I've heard of that sort of thing, too. Stupid and greedy granthis that pre-place a bookmark on a "good" hukumnamma. Regarding cyber-"hukumnamma", I don't think it's a big deal, as long as you understand the context. If you're just looking to read a random shabad, I don't see a problem. It would be like looking for random shabads to sing from Amrit Keertan pothi. Don't call it a "hukumnamma", just call it a "random shabad".

I heard that often hukamnamas can be manipulated by experienced granthis , I have seen it too one gurdwara had a strange coincidence that when a particular family got married only one shabad would come up no matter who got married and at what distance of time . Anyway nothing happens without Waheguru ji's hukam...so just listen with open mind and heart

Most important thing is that you contemplate & obey the Hukam. ਹੁਕਮਿ ਮੰਨਿਐ ਹੋਵੈ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ਤਾ ਖਸਮੈ ਕਾ ਮਹਲੁ ਪਾਇਸੀ ॥ Obeying the Order of His Will, he becomes acceptable, and then, he obtains the Mansion of the Lord's Presence. ਖਸਮੈ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੋ ਕਰੇ ਮਨਹੁ ਚਿੰਦਿਆ ਸੋ ਫਲੁ ਪਾਇਸੀ ॥ One who acts to please His Lord and Master, obtains the fruits of his mind's desires. https://gurbaninow.com/shabad/1736/21205 If one is Faithfull then one will receive all that is mentioned in the four Pauris of "Manne" in Jap ji Sahib https://gurbaninow.com/shabad/12/85

I just listen to whatever is playing on the radio. Usually BBC Asian Network, might not be paying attention. I am trying to get into listening to Raag music, especially Raag Keertan. IT's never playing in the gurdwara so have to listen to it at home or in the car. Also found some Rabab music on Youtube yesterday, it actually sounds similar to 80s and 90s bhangra music!

I don't know if hukamnama can be taken from dasam bani, but we should not promote this at the time being because it will only be used as another point by missionaries to be used against Dasam Granth in their propaganda war.

A lot of this was perfectly understood without being explicitly stated when I was a child. An unspoken etiquette that was just known to all. It didn't need expressing or explaining. A solemn, respectful demeanour in Darbar Sahib. Simple. Another example of the continual erosion of standards and just a complete lack of respect on the part of people these days, which is a reflection of their own lackadaisical approach to their own lives.

I knew it was a mistake to look at the comments under that article. The number of muppets who think it was a good thing that he was detained and refused entry. Hope they get the same treatment when they try to disappear to the Costa del Sol.

My sentiments exactly. As you say, the best thing to do is to focus on your own individual journey, rather than looking at what everyone else is doing and letting that dictate your journey for you.

I agree. What that does highlight though is the importance humans (who are social animals) place on social circles. Certain other faiths place a lot more emphasis on this (Muslims for example and certain denominations of Christians) and I'd argue that this social element is the main attractive feature of their faith and one of the biggest reasons why they have a lot of converts. Many of our own lot have VERY strong tribal tendencies and to my mind, this is the reason that they clump together in various competing jathas like you mention. Truth be told, if my faith was based on my interactions with other apnay, I'd probably have left the faith in disgust a long while ago. lol Best way is to focus on the individual journey. It's a LOT more rewarding and a lot more conducive to one's spiritual and intellectual development in my opinion. Once we start getting bogged down with petty loyalties to our social circles we inevitably end up disappointed or disillusioned at one point or another when we are disappointed by our peers in some way. There is also this strange tendency amongst apnay to excessively elevate and iconise perceived 'paunchay hoe' people, especially ones doing good katha. Then, when human failings emerge in these exalted ones, people's faith gets shook. Better to leave that all alone and respect individuals who do good work without crawling up to them and idolising them. Safer for you.

Converts are alright, but when some start pushing weird stuff (from their own culture) on us like homosexual Anand Karaj's (the SIkh wedding ceremony) it's like: what the heck?? Then the other tendency to simply equate modern, western, secular liberalism with Sikhi is another irritating thing. Sure, areas of commonality do exist, but to ignore the ways in which Sikhi is different from the aforementioned is nuts. Ultimately I couldn't put it better than the previous post though - you need to be more concerned with your spiritual development (your relationship with Waheguru) than the social side of the religion (i.e. your relationship with other Sikhs). And it might not be easy - but this path is not telling you that it will be at the outset. A path sharper than the edge of a sword and finer than a strand of hair.

I don't know any converts myself, if somebody else that is could reply regarding that. But I will just give my opnion on one sentence, if I may. "What do Sikhs who are ethnically and culturally Sikh think of white converts or white people who want to convert?" Steven Joe ji, I would say to this, it's God you should be worried about pleasing, not people. God accepts everybody, regardless of race, colour, etc. Sikhi teaches equality of all people. You will be very welcome to the Gurdwara, don't worry about the stares. Gurdwaras are open to all mankind. This is what the Gurus tell us, all are welcome and everybody is on one level thus the langar system, where everybody sits together regardless of social status or anything else. Sikhs are disciples of God who follow the writings and teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. You may want to go with somebody that is familiar with the Gurdwara, as they would be able to give you a detailed tour, so you don't feel lost by yourself. Take a look at this video and there's more for those new to Sikhi, that may help you: Tips for going to the Gurdwara the first time : http://www.newtosikhi.com/m/group/discussion?id=4801542%3ATopic%3A1860

Graphite and Charcoal drawing of Maharaja Ranjit Singh with his generals. It took about 110+ hours over 12 days on A2 (420x594mm) paper.Which is for the upcoming Sikh Lens Exhibition in LA in November 2015. Maharajah Ranjit Singh Sandhawalia (November 13, 1780 - June 27, 1839), also known as "Sher-e-Punjab" ("The Lion of Punjab"), became the first Sikh Emperor after uniting the 11 Sikh Kingdoms of Punjab on the foundations of the Khalsa and under the banner of Sarkar-i-Khalsa, from 1799-1839. He was also the first secular ruler of the punjab region in India. So had soldiers and generals from all races and religions including a few european generals. So this Drawing has his two most well known sikh generals 'Hari Singh Nalwa' (right) and 'Akali Phulla Singh' (back left). And two of his european generals were french 'Jean Francois Allard' (left) and the other italian 'Jean Baptiste Ventura' (back right). Sardar Hari Singh Nalwa (17911837) was Commander-in-chief of the Khalsa, the army of the Sikh Empire. And was one of the greatest military leaders in history. Hari Singh Nalwa was responsible for expanding the frontier of Sikh Empire to beyond the Indus River right up to the mouth of the Khyber Pass. In 1831. He served as governor of Kashmir, Peshawar and Hazara. And He established a mint on behalf of the Sikh Empire. Akali Phula Singh (1 Jan 1761 1 Jan 1823) was a prominent and highly respected Akali Nihang Sikh leader. He was feared by the British who at many times ordered for his arrest but were not successful. During his later years he served for the Sikh Empire as a direct adviser to Maharajah Ranjit Singh. He remained an army general in many famous Sikh battles up until his martyrdom in the battle of Naushera. He was admired by the local people and had a great influence over the land[4] and his settlement was always open to help the poor and helpless. He was well known and was a humble unique leader and prestigious warrior with high character. Jean-François Allard (1785 - 1839) was a French soldier and adventurer. In 1820, Allard left for Punjab, where he in 1822 entered the service of the Maharaja Ranjit Singh. He was commissioned to raise a corps of dragoons and lancers. On completion, Allard was awarded the rank of general, and became the leader of the European officer corps in the Maharaja's service. Allard was a charming and gentle man, very different from some of the other European mercenaries in the Punjab. He also took the trouble learning Persian, and is said to have composed poetry in his new language. He continued to serve the Maharaja until his death in 1839. Jean-Baptiste Ventura (25 May 1794 3 April 1858) was an Italian soldier, mercenary and adventurer who ended up in the Sikh Empire in Punjab. In 1822 He travelled east, ending in Lahore with Jean-François Allard. They took service with the Maharaja Ranjit Singh of Punjab, and soon got to prove their worth. In March the following year, both Allard and Ventura held command in the Battle of Nowshera where a combined Afghan force was defeated, resulting in Punjab's capture of Peshawar. Together with Allard, Paolo Di Avitabile and Claude August Court, Ventura formed the group of European mercenary officers responsible for the modernizing of the Sikh army. Ventura was highly thought of by the Maharajah, and in addition to the rank of General, he was also appointed kazi and Governor of Lahore. He served faithfully under Ranjit Singh and his successor, On Mahārājā Sher Siṅgh's assassination in September 1843, he left the Punjab. Taking his fortune with him, he lived out his days in comfort in Paris, where he died on 3 April 1858. https://m.facebook.com/757948990886082/photos/a.758133187534329.1073741828.757948990886082/1143146652366312/?type=3

That's an amazing piece of artwork.

Great drawing. The historical nerd in me can't help but point out a few things. Maharajah Ranjit Singh was illiterate, so the image of him writing isn't accurate. Also the khanda symbol worn by Hari Singh Nalwa wasn't around then.

Fair enough. It's tragic that school shootings are almost common place in the States now.

Dude, I can understand the sense of frustration but don't ever wish something like that again. It's not who we are.

America man..... I think Sikhs need to go through what people went through in England in the 70s/80s over there. Every other month some news about a Singh getting smacked up. I wonder if apnay are demoralised out there?

but then again the pakistanis also are obnoxious and undermining too ... and they would never get the job ...for obvious reasons ...

Interesting the use of the "caste preference" column despite it being a Gurdwara list. Surely they shouldn't have that there in the first place? Disappointing.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/triple-killer-who-burned-girlfriend-7956614 Triple killer who burned girlfriend to death has sentence appeal thrown out Taxi driver Azhar Ali Mehmood killed Lucy Lowe, 16, her sister Sarah 17, and mum Eileen, 49 in arson attack birminghammail SHARE Azhar Ali Mehmood triple killer who burned his girlfriend and two relatives to death in their own home in Shropshire A triple Midland killer who burned his teenaged girlfriend and two of her relatives to death in their own home has failed to win a cut in his sentence – despite claiming he has made “exceptional progress” behind bars. Azhar Ali Mehmood, 40, was caged for life at Stafford Crown Court in October 2001 after he was convicted of murdering his girlfriend Lucy Lowe, 16, her sister, Sarah, 17, and her mother, Eileen, 49. All three victims died in the blaze in Halifax Drive, Leegomery, Shropshire, in August 2000 after Mehmood, formerly of Manor Road, Hadley, Telford, used petrol to spark an inferno. He was also convicted of the attempted murder of his girlfriend’s father, George Lowe, who escaped the fire by climbing out of a bedroom window. Mehmood’s baby daughter was mercifully rescued from the flames. Girlfriend Lucy Lowe, 16, who was burned to death by Azhar Ali Mehmood His lawyers at the time said he had been stung by incidents in which he was allegedly left “humiliated” by Lucy, who he had met at the age of 13. The “jealous and possessive” cab driver set the fire by dousing the downstairs floor of the house in petrol, which he then ignited with a cigarette lighter. Reviewing the case at London’s Royal Courts of Justice, Mr Justice Bean said: “Mehmood himself got out of the fire and pretended to have done so with difficulty.” At his trial, the killer denied any part in the conflagration, trying to deflect guilt. He was ordered to serve at least 18 years behind bars for his crimes. However, Mehmood’s case came before Mr Justice Bean today as his legal team argued that he deserved a cut in his minimum term. Lawyers argued he had made huge steps towards rehabilitation and was now a changed man. However, the judge pointed to a prison report which stated that Mehmood “continues to blame others for his offences” and had shown little victim empathy. His progress had to be “set against the dreadful fact that three people were killed” and the judge said there was “little tangible evidence that he has addressed his current risk”. If Mehmood had been jailed under the current, much tougher, sentencing regime he might well have received a 30-year minimum term, he added. A sentence cut could only be envisaged where a lifer’s progress was “outstanding”, and the judge said: “The evidence falls a very long way short of satisfying those requirements”. The judge’s ruling means that Mehmood will not even be considered for release on parole until October 2019.

Disgusting act by a disgusting individual. However, what also disgusts me are the racist comments by readers of the articles. Shame.

Waheguru I think eveyone has already visited this website Guru Nanak Dev Ji’s visit to Rome, Italy in the year 1520. The Vatican FINALLY confirms the visit of Il Prima Guru Dei Sikhs, the first Guru of the Sikhs. Ufficio Papa (office of the Pope) confirms about Satguru Nanak Sahib visit to Rome and other towns of Italy (by courtesy of Pope Benedict-12 and his Arch-Bishop, Dom Jose Ronaldo Rebeiro dated Feb 27, 2013). Arch-Bishop Dom Jose Ronaldo of Pope Benedict-XII, speaks about Satguru Nanak Sahib visit to Rome with a musician, in 1518 AD, and Satguru stayed in Mussoleum-F of Old St.Peter’s Basillica. Satguru advocated to Leo-X, (the Pope) “Liberty of Slavery”. He told the Pope that nobody has the right to enslave others. Almighty Satguru told the worthy Pope that every human being has the same blood in his or her veins. Satguru discussed in detail the “Missionario Humantario (Universal Human Mission). [by courtesy of Ufficio Scavi, Vatican, Rome, dated March 2, 2013] “Sanctus Nanacus Di Indi, Prima Gorium Di Secta, Avec Musei”, Meaning thereby, Saint Satguru Nanak Sahib, the First Guru of the Sikhs, with a musician, came to Rome and others towns of Italy in the last week of May, 1520 [by courtesy of the office of Scavi (Ufficio Scavi) Saturday (Sabato), dated March 2, 2013]. Thomas Nelson, US Ambassador to Italy, (1913-19), confirms from Vatican records that Satguru Nanak visited Florence, Gobbio etc. [by courtesy of “Nelson’s Encyclopaedia, 1913] East India Company of U.K, confirms Ek-Oankar in Gurmukhi Script, on the dome of St. Peter's Basillica, Vatican.This Co. got this information from "Papel Briefs of June 1518. (ref " House of Commons Papers, published in 1841, PP 190 & "Christian Disciple", 1814). Ek-Oankar in Gurmukhi Script and Inscription of Satguru Nanak Sahib's arrival in Rome and other towns of Italy with a musician.This inscription is in old Italian ( by courtesy of Vatican Museum and Fabrica of Vatican (Ufficio Scavi).

Thanks for this!

By IANS - WASHINGTON Published: 11th December 2013 01:34 PM Last Updated: 11th December 2013 01:41 PM An American man accused of viciously beating a Sikh cab driver while shouting anti-Muslim slurs in Washington state last year has been sentenced to 40 months in prison for a federal hate crime. Prosecutors had asked for a four-year term for 50-year-old Jamie W. Larson of Federal Way city in the north western state while his defence lawyer had recommended a two-and-a-half-year term at Tuesday's sentencing in Seattle. Sentencing Larson for the attack on taxi driver Kashmira Hothi, an immigrant from India, US District Judge John Coughenour called his conduct "absolutely unacceptable". "Larson used the most disgusting, ugly and racist language that I have heard in 30 years on the bench," the judge said, according to a statement from the Department of Justice. Larson pleaded guilty in June and apologised saying he was in an alcohol blackout when he attacked Hothi, who was driving him home after a drunken afternoon in Auburn Oct 17, 2012. Larson, a 27-time convict and unreformed drunk who apparently believed Hothi to be Muslim, tore out chunks of his beard and caused internal injuries which saw the driver hospitalised for eight days and miss two months of work, prosecutors said. During the attack, Larson was complaining that immigrants are "taking all of our jobs" shouted hateful comments about Arabs, Persians and, more generally, Muslims. Initially charged in state court, Larson was ultimately prosecuted federally under the federal Hate Crimes Prevention Act, law that criminalises attacks based on a person's actual or perceived race, religion, gender or sexual orientation. In a memo to the court, Assistant US Attorney Bruce Miyake noted the doubly misguided hate attacks against Sikhs are a regular occurrence. "Intended or not, this attack conveyed a message that those of Middle Eastern descent and Sikhs do not belong in America and are unsafe here," Miyake said in court papers. "These types of attacks have become commonplace since Sep 11, 2001, when misdirected individuals or groups focus hate and violence on Sikhs and Muslims, believing these individuals to be associated with terrorism."

During the attack, Larson was complaining that immigrants are "taking all of our jobs" Yeah, I'd certainly feel a lot safer if my cab was being driven by a 27-time convict and unreformed drunkard instead of a hard-working migrant. Stupid berk!! :stupidme:

The arrogance of the man disgusts me.

Such a horrific attack on an innocent family by some obsessed lunatic. Disgusting.

Brilliant stuff!

There are some funny moments here :biggrin2: