Leaderboard

A terrible crime/killings, definitely. Famous people are known to us by name or sight etc so reasonable that there would be more interest in news concerning them. Just read this (Belfast Telegraph site): brother was involved

Very sad news.

TBH i don't think it has much to do with Indian caste system. Its a result of Whites being the Dominant group and then the competition among the rest as to who is closer to the dominant group. The more you look like the dominant group the better your position in the society would be. Thus you have this division of mestizo,castizo and what not and people competing amongst each other as to who looks closer to the Spaniards/Whites the most. I mean i notice the same thing among some punjabis. They will be talking online about how some of them look like Southern Europeans or Persians and how people cannot tell they are brown especially on racist online forums trying to convince whites how they are not brown and look like Southern Euos lol.Its basically trying to be as closer to the Dominant group as possible.

https://on.soundcloud.com/upxAG

Maybe the 5 piare are being compared to 5 bhagats as a comparison to the level of spirituality? Similar to this shabad: ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥ ਵਾਹ ਵਾਹ! ਹੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ! ਹੇ ਗੁਰੂ! ਸਦਕੇ! Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o. ਕਵਲ ਨੈਨ ਮਧੁਰ ਬੈਨ ਕੋਟਿ ਸੈਨ ਸੰਗ ਸੋਭ ਕਹਤ ਮਾ ਜਸੋਦ ਜਿਸਹਿ ਦਹੀ ਭਾਤੁ ਖਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥ ਤੇਰੇ ਕਮਲ ਵਰਗੇ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ਹਨ, (ਮੇਰੇ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਤਾਂ ਤੂੰ ਹੀ ਹੈਂ ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ) ਮਾਂ ਜਸੋਧਾ ਆਖਦੀ ਸੀ—‘ਹੇ ਲਾਲ (ਆ), ਦਹੀਂ ਚਾਉਲ ਖਾ ।’ You are lotus-eyed, with sweet speech, exalted and embellished with millions of companions. Mother Yashoda invited You as Krishna to eat the sweet rice. ਦੇਖਿ ਰੂਪੁ ਅਤਿ ਅਨੂਪੁ ਮੋਹ ਮਹਾ ਮਗ ਭਈ ਕਿੰਕਨੀ ਸਬਦ ਝਨਤਕਾਰ ਖੇਲੁ ਪਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥ ਜਦੋਂ ਤੂੰ ਖੇਡ ਮਚਾਉਂਦਾ ਸੈਂ, ਤੇਰੀ ਤੜਾਗੀ ਦੀ ਛਣਕਾਰ ਦੀ ਅਵਾਜ਼ ਪੈਂਦੀ ਸੀ, ਤੇਰੇ ਅੱਤ ਸੋਹਣੇ ਮੁਖੜੇ ਨੂੰ ਵੇਖ ਕੇ (ਮਾਂ ਜਸੋਧਾ) ਤੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰ ਵਿਚ ਮਗਨ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਸੀ । Gazing upon Your supremely beautiful form, and hearing the musical sounds of Your silver bells tinkling, she was intoxicated with delight. ਕਾਲ ਕਲਮ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਹਾਥਿ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਉਨੁ ਮੇਟਿ ਸਕੈ ਈਸੁ ਬੰਮ੍ਯੁ ਗ੍ਯਾਨੁ ਧ੍ਯਾਨੁ ਧਰਤ ਹੀਐ ਚਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥ ਕਾਲ ਦੀ ਕਲਮ ਤੇ ਹੁਕਮ (ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਹੀ) ਹੱਥ ਵਿਚ ਹਨ । ਦੱਸੋ, ਕਉਣ (ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਹੁਕਮ ਨੂੰ) ਮਿਟਾ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ? ਸ਼ਿਵ ਤੇ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ (ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ੇ ਹੋਏ) ਗਿਆਨ ਤੇ ਧਿਆਨ ਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਵਿਚ ਧਾਰਨ ਕਰਨਾ ਚਾਹੁੰਦੇ ਹਨ । Death's pen and command are in Your hands. Tell me, who can erase it? Shiva and Brahma yearn to enshrine Your spiritual wisdom in their hearts. ਸਤਿ ਸਾਚੁ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸਦਾ ਤੁਹੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥੬॥ ਹੇ ਗੁਰੂ! ਤੂੰ ਅਚਰਜ ਹੈਂ, ਤੂੰ ਸਤਿ-ਸਰੂਪ ਹੈਂ, ਤੂੰ ਅਟੱਲ ਹੈਂ, ਤੂੰ ਹੀ ਲੱਛਮੀ ਟਿਕਾਣਾ ਹੈਂ, ਤੂੰ ਹੀ ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਹੈਂ ਤੇ ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਹੈਂ ।੬। You are forever True, the Home of Excellence, the Primal Supreme Being. Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o. ||1||6|| Bhatt Gayandh in Svaiyay Mehl 5 - Ang 1402 Just like we don't say that Guru was an avtar of Vishnu or Krishna, it can be percieved as an comparison

Yes Non Sikhs can as long as they practice their religion with purity. Non - Amritdhaari also can but may be a bit difficult. "Prab bhawii t paathr traawi" (If The Lord wanted he will make a Stone float) a metaphor here...

Guys (and ladies), stop to think of what's being suggested. It's verging on disrespect. I'm not going to waffle with stuff that doesn't make sense. 1. Guru Gobind Singh is antarjami, correct? Omniscient (all-knowing) despite being in their Sargun form. 2. Now consider the ground-level events of the first Amrit Sanchaar in 1699. Don't anyone get excited and lofty; we'll just stick to what we know. Guru Ji sent out word to Sikhs to assemble at Anandpur. Sikhs arrived at a mass gathering of fellow Sikhs where, eventually, Guru Ji asked for five Sikhs to volunteer their heads. 3. If Guru Ji knew the identity of the Panj Pyaare BEFORE they volunteered, then why the selection process AND the dramatic manner in which it occurred (the thunderous rage; some Sikhs slipping away to complain to Mata Gujjar Kaur, etc)? If you say, "They wanted to discern who would be brave enough to follow their command," then that also doesn't make sense, because with Guru Ji being omniscient AND the fact that the Panj Pyare were PRE-DESTINED to be the ones who would volunteer their heads (because only those five were the bhagats who were supposed to come forward that particular day), Guru Ji would know which of his Sikhs would step forward and who wouldn't. NO OTHER SIKHS that day would've ever stood up, because they were never karmically pre-selected to do so. If someone argues, "Guru Ji wanted to give their other Sikhs an opportunity to volunteer," that also doesn't make sense, because nobody else at Anandpur could've been those five Singhs who were bhagats in their previous lifetime. If what I've stated above is the case, then why not send a straight invitation / messenger to the Five requesting their attendance and then when they assembled, just inform them of the plan to make them the Panj Pyaare? Why the display at Anandpur? If the identity of the Five was set in concrete prior to the Amrit Sanchaar, then baptise those Singhs, and then present them to the horde at Anandpur, AND then instruct everyone else that they could now be baptised, too. Nobody would've protested. The showmanship aspect of what people are suggesting is quite unsettling. You folks are inadvertently claiming that Guru Ji "tricked" the sangat with his blood and thunder display. Essentially, the "Panj Pyaare were bhagats" narrative is very damaging. It flies in the face of the egalitarian message of the concept of that first Amrit Sanchaar by suggesting that out of everyone at Anandpur, only those particular five Singhs were ever meant to volunteer their heads out of potentially thousands of possible candidates. Why? Because the SIXTH civilian Sikh who took amrit (after Guru Gobind Singh Ji of course) was the first Sikh to KNOW that his life wasn't in danger at the hands of Guru Ji's sword. The Five (if they weren't aware of their divine heritage and weren't physically cognisant of this fact) were happy with going to their deaths at the hands of Guru Ji. Once the Five had re-emerged as the Panj Pyaare, any subsequent Sikh taking amrit knew they weren't going to die. THAT'S why the Panj Pyaare being normal men (who didn't know of their destiny) is SO essential. It provides us mortals with HOPE that we should place our faith in Guru Ji's hukam, and that we should UNDERSTAND that those Five had absolute faith in Guru Ji's hukam, something lacking in the other Sikhs present. By making the Five into virtual God-men (of an obviously lesser status compared to Guru Sahib) it makes it seem as if the rest of us are being fooled into following orders that were never meant to test us or resonate with us in any truthful or meaningful way.

Khalsa mool mantar. In many Nihang Gutka Sahib. It is in the on I have. Probably in Dasam Granth or Sarbloh Granth. Also Sant Gurbachan in his katha also says the panj pyare previous life.

well if you read sikh philosophy it is said that santlok have options to choose to be reborn to do sewa or stay in darbar , this is in line with the indivisibility of Har and Harjan .

Where?

About the Panj Pyare that actually comes up in gurbani that they were Bhagats in their pervious life.

I use to adore these types of theories when I was younger. But if you stop to analyse the implications behind them and tally them up with Sikh philosophy not only per Gurbani but ancillary writings, they do a lot of damage for thinking Sikhs. You can impress and shut-up an unthinking pendu with pretty much anything, but try that with someone even a little more considerate and you're opening up Pandora's Box.

It is Maharaj in his kirpa that can decide whether a Non-Sikh will go to Sachkand. Maharaj's hukam is universal. It is not for us to be able to assume whether a Non Sikh will not go/ go to Sachkand. A non-Sikh has to be answerable to their karma like the rest of us. This is between the Non-Sikh and Maharaj.

With regards to Bhagat Farid Ji, Guru Nanak Maharaj met Sheikh Brahm. "Farid" is the gadhi of the saints. Sheikh Brahm was the 4th Farid from the one who you are referring to. Interesting side note: Sant Baba Nand Singh Ji Maharaj Kaleran Wale said that they were Sheikh Brahm in a previous life.

What I have heard is to embody the Guru in that special time and place , the panj must be rehityaan gursikhs of the calibre that they have never had to do pesh , or slipped in their nitnem and amritvela ever as the asthaan has to be sucha for the job (hirdaae) . Men because it represents Akal Roop as the only male principle amongst us. Until a sant of high avasta and khalsa panth decides otherwise it will stay so.

If I could play devil's advocate for a moment: Why only males in the panj piare, if it was predestined? Could it not have been women as well if it was not Sikhs that already had extreme love of Guru Sahib Ji (enough to give their lives) Did the bhagats know what was going to happen since they all had gian? Does that mean that there was no other Sikh who in 1 life, had enough pyar of Guru Sahib Ji (enough to give their lives) For me, the reason that "the panj piare always have to be males, because the first 5 piare were" was not really sufficient. Here's another explanation that I really like: When one takes amrit, it is a spiritual rebirth. Guru Gobind Singh Ji becomes your spiritual father and Mata Sahib Kaur becomes the spiritual mother. Since females give the physical birth, males give the spiritual birth. Bhul Chuk Maaf ?

Thats not true, I went to a funeral too, like 2 weeks ago how do you think I felt? I understand everything and I feel terrible for you but you just gotta understand. I want my nani back but what can we do?? I thank Vaheguru for all the memories I had of her and the fact that I was able to do her antim darshan. I'm really thankful and it motivates me to not waste my life with petty matters.

VJKK VJKF Vaheguru is within us, Vaheguru is our very aatma. However, the panj chor allow us to sin, to take us away from naam japping and seva. That's why we sin even when Vaheguru is within us. We can connect with Vaheguru because imagine that Vaheguru is the ocean, we are just cups of that ocean water. So, our souls are just small segments of Vaheguru. We can connect with Vaheguru because if you imagine getting that cup of ocean water and if you spill it back into the sea, can you tell the difference? No. So just like that we merge and then as our conscieness drifts we become the cups of water again. I hope you understand this concept now. VJKK VJKF

VJKK VJKF I've noticed that a lot too, my grandad always talks about caste and stuff: "Oh we are Tharkan, we shouldn't be talking to chamars". I was so suprised because at the end of the day, we are all humans regardless of our caste. I don't see myself as a Tharkan, I see myself as casteless. I just think that castes are just a huge ego boost. VJKK VJKF

VJKK VJKF VJKK VJKF! VJKK VJKF ? VJKK VJKF Kini vaari hor? VJKK VJKF

VJKK VJKF Yes.. The sangat is here for you OP. VJKK VJKF

because this ish admits to targetting a sikh girl previous to this potential victim and that other girl was 15 ...

BRo what evidence is there that this is sikh-targetted, and not just a regular groomer or peadophile.??? Be aware of how this media comes across.

Bro , you'd have to have zero jameer to NOT be angry about the situation

VJKK VJKF Not at all... VJKK VJKF

dasam bani time

VJKK VJKF That's so true! I have so much stuff in my heart that I really want to share with someone but I can't because my parents are typical Punjabi parents and I know what they are like so I keep everything to myself and that's just the way that I am now. My mum doesn't know what I am really like and neither does my dad. That's why I like coming on here to listen to other people's problems and give my twopence worth because I know what it feels like. Yes. That's why most girls become besharam because they want to "fit in" because there is a lack of parchaar. That's also why I cherish Guru Ji so much because even if my parents don't understand me, Guru Ji does. If we had more parchaar then no Sikh girl would feel insecure enough to trust a stranger. I agree, its not only girls at risk but it's also boys. Muslims (I have noticed) can't help it, they HAVE to tell EVERYONE about how great their religion is and Sikh children are too scared to do so because they feel they will be bullied. We have a lot we have to improve... VJKK VJKF

Every sikh parent should know that most musley are enrolling their girls and boys in marital arts/boxing/muay thai type classes from as young an age as possible they are planning long term . Unless we all adults and children don't toughen up and get ready we will be caught unawares by the violence they have started to unleash on communities . Your children's lives matter to you AND the panth , make them aware , get them prepared and stay awake . Get your banian Kant Those of us who can put english subtitles to punjabi speaking itihaasic vids , translate old granths to english, bug committees to start itihaas classes , discussion groups, outreach to single parent families etc

VJKK VJKF How do you think we can prevent this from happening further with our girls? VJKK VJKF

VJKK VJKF Drugs are such a big problem in our community, especially alcohol. VJKK VJKF

I think all this happened when sikhi got split into sehajdharis and amritdharis. Before everyone would take amrit before their anand karaj and so kept rehit when young. Like learning japji sahib, not eating out, not cutting hair. It was basically part of our culture. Like covering ur hair, not talking to opposite gender, and not doing drugs. In the west, most punjabis have kept the bad punjabi culture like bhangra and alcohol and treating men better than women and got rid of all the sikhi related culture because they think its only for amritdharis. And as preachers and babas became more strict, the general sikh population has become lax. I think in our gurudwaras we need to start teaching the basics. Like to be a sikh means to be a good person and to at least do japji sahib daily and to learn panjabi and no dating until u r ready to get married.Then later on we can talk about keeping ur hair, the importance of dasam granth, of shaasters of 1984, of SRM. I think basics of sikhi was kind of doing this. They were getting thru to the lay panjabi person. Who just want a spiritual sikhi without all the rules..

Thing is he's acting as if he'll say sorry and the kind hearted sikhs will let him go ... there is something in that to think about . When baddies had an expectation of being chatka-ed or at least beaten to within an inch they stayed away from sikh women , now they perceive sikhs as physically soft and mentally docile anything's possible . It is that one thing that got to me . He openly admits he has already done this to another underage sikh girl for some time and is just putting his hands together to wheedle out of this . The fact is , he is and will always be a predator of our girls

a child is hardly a mature adult to discern the nuances of human behaviour or even to imagine the worst of humans' depravity . Strong self-identity in sikhi will counter any pull towards joining in going to clubs just to fit in , even if the parents are total losers and fail to inform about safety. However even in the case of an amritdhari girl who got spiked she was pressurised by female 'friends' of hindu and sikh origin to come out .. We really need to make it clear that going clubbing isn't our thing , and there's no great thing in behaving like a slapper or dressing like one . That being blackmailed can only happen if you don't live truthfully . if you are scared of your folks then you know everything you are doing is wrong . If you made the first mistake then tell your folks before all and sundry are blackmailing you into being their toy . Have self-respect and be discerning about who you hang around with , if you hang around the rubbish except the filth to get onto you too. Parents need to make sure their girls understand they are loved and that they are equal to their male siblings and cousins in their eyes , that will help them from seeking love and approval outside the family . Educate them about how to cut down romeos to size if they are showing unwanted attention and self-defence classes are a must. If you know a family that has messed up parents look after their kids as your own, keep an eye on them . Sunny Leone's mum was an alchy and her father was indifferent to the home situation , although the kids were taken to gurdwara nothing stuck so they became coconuts, that is why she thought nothing of making money the way she did . BECOMING COCONUTS is the main problem - losing self-identity as strong sikh female .

Its important that we don't forget about wildlife.

VJKK VJKF That's such a nice concept. Its something I will remember for my whole life. We forget about animals and creatures and we only focus on ourselves. VJKK VJKF

VJKK VJKF I agree with penji, it is also our responsibility. Not just the child's. VJKK VJKF

given that they start on our girls from a primary school age(7,, 8,9) , it is very hard to blame such kids for the lack of streetsmarts especially when they are essentially protected from the unsavoury side of life : no one at home warns them, no one talks about how they appreciate their daughters/sons, no teaches sikh history, no one talks about gurbani or listens to kirtan, no one talks about being careful of muslim girls (yes this is an important and new way they approach girls via their female friends) , sex talks are a must, as are what to do if they feel unsafe on the street when walking home from school. Parents do NOT have the luxury of sharam : chaitropakhyan is the warning tradition we should have been giving our youth .

VJKK VJKF The way that we can tackle this issue is by spreading more parchaar about Sikhi and raising awareness about these sorts of topics. If our girls have more faith in Sikhi then they would have a bit more common sense rather than to walk off with a random stranger. The problem is that in the western world dating is such a normal thing whereas in Sikhi the concept of dating does not exist. These groomers set up accounts on dating websites/social media and our girls are clueless enough to fall right into their trap. We cannot just blame the groomers and the victims but it is also up to us, to educate and spread knowledge amongst youth. We have resources like social media that we can use to our advantage to prevent issues like this from happening in the first place. So answering @mahandulai veerji's question, yes it is the victims fault and the groomers fault and ours since the older generation have not really done a good job of spreading the wisdom of Sikhi. If we did a better job, we could prevent most incidents and if we were more stricter with children and at the very least took them to the gurdwara more often, it could contribute to the betterment of our community. Just my twopence worth. Bhull Chuk Maaf VJKK VJKF

VJKK VJKF Yes, however it may not always be their fault but sometimes our girls can be a bit silly.

VJKK VJKF I think its good as sangat will be more aware about what is happening nowadays. More awareness needs to be raised about this topic because not a lot of people like talking about it. VJKK VJKF

Agreed! Please make an account and post regularly on this forum, bro. If there's one thing that our kaum desperately needs, it's a shot of masculinity.

Ridhhi Siddhis are powers which one gets, either by present birth kamaee in meditation, or from past births kamaee with a little effort to be put in this very one. They usually come and meet those who do bhakti of gods, as they themselves are the reservoir of them. But they do not even dare to come near, those who have Wahiguru as their main aim only. For example, Ravan did so much bhakti of Brahma and Shiva, he got so much powers that he became the ruler of the three worlds, but he could not control his mind or vaasnas, though he remained wicked and ultimately died like a dog on the street .... Usually seen, when one does bhakti of any other entity except Wahiguru, when they are satisfied with your devotion, they appear and the first thing they tell you is: I am satisfied with your bhakti, ask for whatever you want.... On the contrary, Wahiguru´s Naam is so pure and paviter, that forget having His darshan, but just by repeating it, no matter how sinner you are, it will unfold itself in us, and remove all the filth accumulated on us since we stepped into this mayaee creation, and make us as pure as Himself with His grace, and finally, allow us to merge in Him. Sangat Jee, is there anything in the whole triloki creation compared to the beant wadeeayee of our beloved Wahiguru Akal Purukh? Wah wah, dhan dhan, Wahiguru Akal Purukh Sachay Patshah. Sat Sree Akal.

What is all this that we are doing? Are we taking His name, so cheaply? Are we basing our faith in Wahiguru upon miracles, and fantasies? Shame on us, for being so mean and low! We have to love Him just because He is adorable, He is only worthy to be loved, for the sake of love. Nothing more,nothing less. Any thing other than this, just shows off our weaknesses. This just looks like a fair of fantasies. What is all this of passing exams or curing cancer, etc, etc... He is much much more than all this. He is our true Father, we have to love Him for what He is for us, not what for the things we can get from Him. We should not care for the daat, but we should love Daatar. Nam simran should just be done, only to merge ourselves in Akal Purukh. By doing so, we cut from the roots any chances of coming in this creation of pain and suffering. He is the fountain of real and everlasting happiness, so our real happiness, is in getting one with Him. This is what our Gurus taught us, we have to love Him, to get Him only; anything apart from this, is inviting trouble. Deenda de...lenda thak pae. If the king is ready to give us the kingdom, why to ask for peanuts... So let us become gurmukhs from manmukhs by loving Him, only for Himself.