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Why Do Some Sikhs Dismiss The Sikh Call For Independence From India

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2 minutes ago, ChardikalaUK said:

This shaming stuff happens to Russia, Iran, North Korea in the media all of the time and nothing happens to those countries.

Once you have the kind of military India does no one will mess with you.

Funny how none of the aforementioned 3 countries have a Central Bank owned by the Rothschilds. The three countries we're constantly told by the media are a threat to peace. Must be a coincidence... 😅

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1 hour ago, ChardikalaUK said:

It's true, they are now a military superpower, they have nuclear weapons and a very good navy.

Even the Tamil Tigers couldn't defeat the Sri Lankan military who are a lot weaker than India's and much smaller in size.

1947 was a fantastic opportunity, all we had to do was ask.

Ask and you shall receive, we didn't even ask!

Silly Mr 'Village teacher' Malhotra.

1940s before 1947 was a beautiful time to get sikh raj back. Various Sikh princely state rulers could have banded together and formed khalistan easily even without dr abedkar's consideration of 100 million+ dalits joining sikhism to boost our demographics numbers to qualify for a huge country. But instead the various sikh groups were divided between themselves, they couldnt come together and fight for the national sikh interest. Too many selfish Sikh egotistcal clowns wanted to protect their own seats in political power play that was going on.

As for the tigers well reason for the defeat of hindu tamil tigers was the various countries implementing terrorism legislation's from year 2000 that proscribed them and cut their funding from the west. Another big dent to tamil tigers aspirations was when congress party ruling the indian establishment's betrayal. First they created and covertly supported the tamil tigers via the R&AW to leverage power of tamils against Sinhalese buddhist sri lankan govt then they betrayed them backstabbing and removed all funding and training and arms which left the tamil tigers to fend for themselves on the arms dealing black market for survival. The indian army even was sent in to "peace keeping" troops to try ensure the peace between buddhist and hindu tamil area's  These troops ended up committing brutality against the restless tamils there, so the tigers feeling betrayed hit back and blew rajiv gandhi up before the Sikh militants could get him for his role in anti-sikh genocide.

So we come to 2009 and the sri lankan government was better armed, had intelligence and weapons help from china and pakistan. It was no contest really and only matter of time before the sri lankan tamil hindu genocide happened there was protests in london while the sri lankan president was being courted by the british queen and government. The british establishment didnt give two f*ucks about the genocide of tamil hindus in sri lankan just as they didnt do the same of sikhs of punjab 80s/90s. They were signing arms deals with the sri lankan govt just as they did with india in 1980s before operation blue star.

Sadly this is ground reality of real politics of the world. the rich and powerful only give aid to each other to oppress and persecute the minorities when it doesn't suit their geo-political strategic economic interests.

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2 minutes ago, genie said:

1940s before 1947 was a beautiful time to get sikh raj back. Various Sikh princely state rulers could have banded together and formed khalistan easily even without dr abedkar's consideration of 100 million+ dalits joining sikhism to boost our demographics numbers to qualify for a huge country. But instead the various sikh groups were divided between themselves, they couldnt come together and fight for the national sikh interest. Too many selfish Sikh egotistcal clowns wanted to protect their own seats in political power play that was going on.

As for the tigers well reason for the defeat of hindu tamil tigers was the various countries implementing terrorism legislation's from year 2000 that proscribed them and cut their funding from the west. Another big dent to tamil tigers aspirations was when congress party ruling the indian establishment's betrayal. First they created and covertly supported the tamil tigers via the R&AW to leverage power of tamils against Sinhalese buddhist sri lankan govt then they betrayed them backstabbing and removed all funding and training and arms which left the tamil tigers to fend for themselves on the arms dealing black market for survival. The indian army even was sent in to "peace keeping" troops to try ensure the peace between buddhist and hindu tamil area's  These troops ended up committing brutality against the restless tamils there, so the tigers feeling betrayed hit back and blew rajiv gandhi up before the Sikh militants could get him for his role in anti-sikh genocide.

So we come to 2009 and the sri lankan government was better armed, had intelligence and weapons help from china and pakistan. It was no contest really and only matter of time before the sri lankan tamil hindu genocide happened there was protests in london while the sri lankan president was being courted by the british queen and government. The british establishment didnt give two f*ucks about the genocide of tamil hindus in sri lankan just as they didnt do the same of sikhs of punjab 80s/90s. They were signing arms deals with the sri lankan govt just as they did with india in 1980s before operation blue star.

Sadly this is ground reality of real politics of the world. the rich and powerful only give aid to each other to oppress and persecute the minorities when it doesn't suit their geo-political strategic economic interests.

Militant groups just have no chance against bigger powers. At best they can be a nuisance like the IRA but they can never achieve their end goal.

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12 minutes ago, ChardikalaUK said:

Militant groups just have no chance against bigger powers. At best they can be a nuisance like the IRA but they can never achieve their end goal.

I would agree in todays world they don't have a chance. However if we were in the 80s and 90s the IRA had real chance of defeating the british army because you gotta remember gaddafi was funding them, the arab league members were funding them covertly like saddams iraq. The USA ex-pat irish community nord was funding them.

The only way militant groups will succeed in todays world in todays political scene is if a super power aids them or smashed into another world power to release trapped nations of the bigger nations out. So when we look at the case of USSR after its fall because of the west's thousand cuts policy then all those former soviet countries broke free because there wasnt the manpower to fight any armed uprising by cash strapped soviet govt in moscow. However russia has regrouped and was able to aid pro-russian seperatist militants in ukraine establish their own rule and in abzakia from georgian territory.

If we look at serbia and its clash in kosovo that was part of its land after it had taken it during the balkan wars. The west aided the jihadi KLA militant group to cause clashes with serbian forces when serbia retaliated then nato got involved and salved albanian muslim asses just as they did in balkan wars. So kosovo seperatists declared independence from serbia thanks to NATO western military help.

So it is still possible for militant groups of independance wanting groups to reach objectives militaerily but only if alot of world powers or a super power aids and recognizes their legitimacy. 

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22 minutes ago, genie said:

I would agree in todays world they don't have a chance. However if we were in the 80s and 90s the IRA had real chance of defeating the british army because you gotta remember gaddafi was funding them, the arab league members were funding them covertly like saddams iraq. The USA ex-pat irish community nord was funding them.

The only way militant groups will succeed in todays world in todays political scene is if a super power aids them or smashed into another world power to release trapped nations of the bigger nations out. So when we look at the case of USSR after its fall because of the west's thousand cuts policy then all those former soviet countries broke free because there wasnt the manpower to fight any armed uprising by cash strapped soviet govt in moscow. However russia has regrouped and was able to aid pro-russian seperatist militants in ukraine establish their own rule and in abzakia from georgian territory.

If we look at serbia and its clash in kosovo that was part of its land after it had taken it during the balkan wars. The west aided the jihadi KLA militant group to cause clashes with serbian forces when serbia retaliated then nato got involved and salved albanian muslim asses just as they did in balkan wars. So kosovo seperatists declared independence from serbia thanks to NATO western military help.

So it is still possible for militant groups of independance wanting groups to reach objectives militaerily but only if alot of world powers or a super power aids and recognizes their legitimacy. 

Yes the only way is if an even bigger power helps the militant group but India is not the same nation it was back in the 80s. Nukes change things big time. No country will do this against India.

Economically India is doing ok so it isn't going to collapse like the USSR.

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6 minutes ago, ChardikalaUK said:

Yes the only way is if an even bigger power helps the militant group but India is not the same nation it was back in the 80s. Nukes change things big time. No country will do this against India.

Economically India is doing ok so it isn't going to collapse like the USSR.

Yup india is pretty safe at the moment. It can crush the afghan taliban easily if they tried it on hence why they admitted they wont interfere in indian affairs. Modi's india is embolden at the moment and can even take on china and pakistan at the same time if it was a conventional war. If it came down to nukes then no ones gonna win in that only be loosers everywhere. So i think all the worldly powers have abandoned any support to separatists groups knowing theres not much chance of them seceding from a pretty stable and rising hindu nationalist india union.

From Sikhs perspective we should keep out of any hinduisation thats going on effecting kashmir or indian muslims because the goal of islam is to convert and wipe non-muslims including sikhs out eventually. Whereas the goal of hindu nationalists isnt really one of wiping Sikhs and Sikhism or Buddhists and buddhism out they are pretty tolerant of dharmic faiths they just want to be top dogs in the native area they been living for past thousands of years.

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1 minute ago, genie said:

Yup india is pretty safe at the moment. It can crush the afghan taliban easily if they tried it on hence why they admitted they wont interfere in indian affairs. Modi's india is embolden at the moment and can even take on china and pakistan at the same time if it was a conventional war. If it came down to nukes then no ones gonna win in that only be loosers everywhere. So i think all the worldly powers have abandoned any support to separatists groups knowing theres not much chance of them seceding from a pretty stable and rising hindu nationalist india union.

From Sikhs perspective we should keep out of any hinduisation thats going on effecting kashmir or indian muslims because the goal of islam is to convert and wipe non-muslims including sikhs out eventually. Whereas the goal of hindu nationalists isnt really one of wiping Sikhs and Sikhism or Buddhists and buddhism out they are pretty tolerant of dharmic faiths they just want to be top dogs in the native area they been living for past thousands of years.

Exactly, I dont want any coalition between Sikhs and any Muslim group. We need to stick up for ourselves and don't need the bad reputation of muslims hanging over us.

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7 hours ago, genie said:

If we look at serbia and its clash in kosovo that was part of its land after it had taken it during the balkan wars. The west aided the jihadi KLA militant group to cause clashes with serbian forces when serbia retaliated then nato got involved and salved albanian muslim asses just as they did in balkan wars. So kosovo seperatists declared independence from serbia thanks to NATO western military help.

So it is still possible for militant groups of independance wanting groups to reach objectives militaerily but only if alot of world powers or a super power aids and recognizes their legitimacy. 

I was reading about this recently. The Serbia vs Kosovo conflict was said to be a warm-up / practice for the post-9/11 invasion of Iraq (if you believe it was a pre-planned pretence to enter the Middle East under the guise of "restoring democracy). Clinton and Blair aided the Muslim Albanians in slaughtering Christian Serbians. There was nothing honourable about what happened. The only reason the press, at the time, didn't make a big deal of Western intervention, is because the people being aided were Muslims.

So, even when the Western powers do decide to grace others with their benevolence, it usually has some form of vested interest. In this case, as I mentioned, it was a dry run for what they were hoping to kick-off in Afghanistan and Iraq (and, if the theories are to be believed, Syria and Iran, paving the way for the prophesied Greater Israel to re-emerge in that part of the world).

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Why should we support it ?

Why the "call for independence" is by all of you sitting in foreign shores, especially UK and Canada ? Why not in India where such voices might have more legitimacy ?

A divorce from India would be messy, bloody and is not in the best interests of the panth. 

There are many questions. First of all, Sikhi is not just rooted in punjab , but entire subcontinent . 

Birth place of Guru Gobind Singh ji is in Patna sahib, Jyoti jot place is in Hazur sahib , Nanded, Maharashtra.

Are you willing to let these 2 takhats outside supposed "khalistan" ? and also many other historical gurudwaras outside punjab . 

If we really wanted a sikh state , you (or our ancestors) should have been asking for it while britishers were still calling the shots in subcontinent. We literally fought them both world wars and what did they give us in return ? Nothing !! Why ? because our leaders were fools of the highest orders. Sorry but we're late to the party. Do you want  a sikh state at the expense of blood shed of millions of sikhs ? and all of those who live outside punjab having to lose their properties and assets just so that one of you can become PM of khalistan ?

Also , a nascent khalistan is likely to be very immature in many areas, esp military . It will quickly be absorbed by either india or pakistan. And if its absorbed by pakistan, you will come to know they're one of your deadliest enemies. 

Please get this trash thoughts out of your mind. 

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6 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

I was reading about this recently. The Serbia vs Kosovo conflict was said to be a warm-up / practice for the post-9/11 invasion of Iraq (if you believe it was a pre-planned pretence to enter the Middle East under the guise of "restoring democracy). Clinton and Blair aided the Muslim Albanians in slaughtering Christian Serbians. There was nothing honourable about what happened. The only reason the press, at the time, didn't make a big deal of Western intervention, is because the people being aided were Muslims.

So, even when the Western powers do decide to grace others with their benevolence, it usually has some form of vested interest. In this case, as I mentioned, it was a dry run for what they were hoping to kick-off in Afghanistan and Iraq (and, if the theories are to be believed, Syria and Iran, paving the way for the prophesied Greater Israel to re-emerge in that part of the world).

It seems the west has a morbid fascination with supporting aiding funding and supporting muslims for their geo-political strageic interests. First they fund the jihadi islamic terrorists via the gulf arab puppet regiemes then they unleash these terrorists on their geo-political enemies or even on their own nations to bring forth anti-freedom legislation.

The pattern of behaviour by the white and zionist western elites in their establishment is there for all to see. Since the end of their empires they have been waging colonialist wars covertly using jihadi's as reasons to invade and occupy lands they want to steal resources from.

During the balkans conflict I was very young and all that I read or saw on TV was very santised and it was painted as if there was a civil war just break out of no where because white people wanted their own countries out of yugosalvia. What i learnt now after watching many video clips and documentaries was that there was a jihad called where jihadis from across the muslim world flocked to the balkans and committed massacres on the serbian white christian inhabitants the serbs in their part also committed genocide and massacres on the white bosnian muslims. But we on TV were never shown the jihadi's never shown the antics they got up to like cutting serbian peoples hearts out, beheading whole families, raping christian women and torturing and murdering them on mass. These things they selectively never showed because the serbs and serbia are allys of russia an enemy of the west. Then on top of that NATO got involved and bombed the serbs which lead them to withdraw and bosnian got their independance.

Many UK muslims of pakistani heritage went to the balkans to partake in the so called jihad. They even urged others to join them under the groups of al-mahajaroun (founded by sheikh omar bakri muhammad and anjem choudhary) and hibz-ut-tahir. During the early mid 90s i noticed how muslim school friends i had sudden became fundamentalist and separatist in outlook often looking down on all things non-muslim. At the same time street fights were kicking off between Sikhs and muslim aggressors in schools, colleges and uni. It only ended after in 1997 after Sikh youths drove in 50 car convey and rioted and nearly destroyed a muslim dominated area called chalvey in slough. So it is all linked and it effects all of us when we tolerate muslim aggression and extremism without a reply.

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1 hour ago, AjeetSingh2019 said:

Why should we support it ?

 

Exactly, and in present circumstances the ignorant people crying for khalistan 2020 are delusional fooling themselves aswell as others. They should ask themselves why do we need to support it? What is it that they would get in a huge independent khalistan free from india that they are not getting right now? is it just political power they want?

If they talking about a small khalistan vatican city state within the indian union then i'm all for it as its a workable solution and its peaceful.

if they talking about a huge country then its simply not viable we don't have the demographics, we dont have the regional and distant global power allies. We dont have the armed resources. We dont have the leadership to take on the role of governance,etc,etc

It's a non starter in present circumstances.

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2 hours ago, genie said:

Exactly, and in present circumstances the ignorant people crying for khalistan 2020 are delusional fooling themselves aswell as others. They should ask themselves why do we need to support it? What is it that they would get in a huge independent khalistan free from india that they are not getting right now? is it just political power they want?

If they talking about a small khalistan vatican city state within the indian union then i'm all for it as its a workable solution and its peaceful.

if they talking about a huge country then its simply not viable we don't have the demographics, we dont have the regional and distant global power allies. We dont have the armed resources. We dont have the leadership to take on the role of governance,etc,etc

It's a non starter in present circumstances.

I can imagine the controversy between Sikhs themselves regarding what type of nation a hypothetical Sikh country should be. Ethno-state or secular? The hardcore will predictably want something akin to a Sikh North Korea, while the far-left Twitter poseurs will be angling for gay-pride parades and trans-Anand Karajs. 

Let's not be under misapprehensions: from day one India and Pakistan will dedicate a significant portion of their defence budgets to destabilise a Sikh state. They will throw everything they have at it. We'll need our brightest and our best to counteract it all. 😀

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33 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Let's not be under misapprehensions: from day one India and Pakistan will dedicate a significant portion of their defence budgets to destabilise a Sikh state. They will throw everything they have at it. We'll need our brightest and our best to counteract it all. 😀

your statement rests on the assumption that india/pak as they're now would be existing if and when a sikh state comes into existence on the face of subcontinent.

the last time the sikh empire emerged was when two superpowers of marathas and abdalis annihilated each other in the battle of panipat and the power vacuum thus left was soon filled by the rising sikh misls.

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6 minutes ago, AjeetSingh2019 said:

your statement rests on the assumption that india/pak as they're now would be existing if and when a sikh state comes into existence on the face of subcontinent.

the last time the sikh empire emerged was when two superpowers of marathas and abdalis annihilated each other in the battle of panipat and the power vacuum thus left was soon filled by the rising sikh misls.

That's a good point veer ji. I don't think it's the only way to see Khalistan emerge, but the middle of chaos would be the easiest time to rise and do right. Seize the day, protect the water. 

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