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Why Do Some Sikhs Dismiss The Sikh Call For Independence From India


wakeupUK
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If sikhs do not become khalsa first Khalsitan is not going to help.

This movement has been hijacked by fake khalistanis who have no jeevan,know nothing about Gurbani,

are not even amritdhari, indulge in thug activities , propagate against bani of tenth master.

So far such low level people are at the head of such movement nothing is going to happen.

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There is little Sikhi left in India compared to some of the western countries. This questions been raised a few times before, but will the youth (not the oldies) residing, educated, brought up in the Western world pack up and head for Khalistan if ever it was granted? What would they benefit from there? Will it be a rich country? Will it provide loads of employment?

I hate the way people call for "another leader" to come and rescue us. Sorry, but if Guru Maharaj, our living Guru, is not a leader enough for you, then bow your heads in shame. We have had some great great Sikh leaders in our history, the most recent being in the past 30 years with Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Jee, we have had hundreds and hundreds of Shaheeds give their mortal lives not only for Sikhs but other religions too, we have had people go through torture, our sisters raped, children butchered infront of our eyes... yet we still call for a "leader" to come and wake us up?! Its this whining and crying for a leader from Sikhs in the past 25 years which has led to a rising of idiots who lie, cheat and double cross whoever they have to, to try and become "leaders" and in the process, they benefit from desperados handing out cash "donations".

"LEADER" is just a title. "KHALSA" is the real deal.

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Very hard to summarise the answer to this question, or Q for why Sikhs need independence.

Unless one Reads thoroughly regarding the politics of Punjab over the last century or so, he or she is ignorant to the facts and their opinion is worthless as it is unfounded.

All sikhs need to spend atleast a fraction of the time we spend on other research/studying for example 3year degree on learning about the situation/aftermath.

But here is my best attempt:

If your family lived in my house, and I was unreasonable towards your family to the point where I killed your father and raped your sister and mother infront of you, would you want to live with me?

These examples of why we shouldnt have khalistan are insignificant to the victims who are the sikh nation. Back to the example, even if someone said where and how will you live

you will say I dont care if i live on the street i aint living with you.

Those who feel as if the indiscriminate attack on the sikh nation was an attack on them can never see future with india. what backs up this argument is Khalistan was not demanded/fought for until the govt forced our hand

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Guest mehtab1singh
Where do you get these quotes from? again I doubt these quotes are from Guru Granth Sahibji, you seem to be taking quotes from anywhere just to backup your what you want to think.
No, I am not creating any quotes. These are the words of Dasam Patshah Ji Himself. And I already mentioned that earlier that they are not from Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I am not using them to back up my thoughts, just stating what Gurujee has stated, thats all.
Just because someone disagrees with you regarding Khalistan then he must fall into one of the following categories

Hindu, Muslim, Sharabi/druggy, Bollywood film lover, uneducated, unsikh, Mona, basically not Sikh

I am not sure if that was directed at me as I didn't stamp those labels on anyone.
Oh and I forgot to mention I dont watch bollywood films I dont get time, but I bet youve seen more than me.
Again, not sure if this was meant for me. Moreover, unless one knows another individual personally, I don't think such assumptions can be made.
and afterwards khardkus even sang about it. Listen to original jago ayeea where they boast about the jago(we all know what this means) doing saphi of families and getting on buses. Killing of civilians should be condoned, not praised.
Is it possible to post a recording on here?
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Where do you get these quotes from? again I doubt these quotes are from Guru Granth Sahibji, you seem to be taking quotes from anywhere just to backup your what you want to think.
No, I am not creating any quotes. These are the words of Dasam Patshah Ji Himself. And I already mentioned that earlier that they are not from Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I am not using them to back up my thoughts, just stating what Gurujee has stated, thats all.

'these quotes are the words of Dasam Patshah Ji himself' - if you say so Mehtab then it must be true.

Maybe you should find out where these quotes actually come from before making statements like that. If your right then alls fine but what do you think the consequences could be if your wrong. Think of the people that could be led astray.

Back up your quotes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Guest mehtab1singh

Relax Singho :)

These quotes have been stated by Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale as well as Panth Ratan Gyani Sant Singh Ji Maskeen, besides several other Gurmukhs too. Its not correct because I said so, but because these Gurmukh Singhs who were scholars of Bani stated them and explained them as well.

Is it possible to post a recording on here?

Thanks Singh, sorry to add to your trouble, but where exactly do they say what you said they say?

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To Sikhiwiki,

You can disagree with Khalistan, but I do not know why you would want to, as I have stated there is more evidence for Khalistan then not. You say you do not know anyone that wants Khalistan in India, do you know that if anyone were to openly talk about a land for Sikhs he or she would windup dead the next day. Alot of people that wanted Khalistan are dead, 300,000 dead Sikhs is not a small number, and its not as if you know everyone in Punjab, I too have come across these individual that do not want a seperate Sikh land, but I find they do not know the facts. I am sure the Guru has spoken about politics, I am sure the Guru wants us to be stong in all fields including Politics.

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Guru ji has asked his sikhs to become khalsa and lift their spirituality.

Then they can attain anything they like.

Fakes who do not lead life per gurmat will not be able to achieve khalistan.

First of all we need to become khalsa.

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To KH4L1$T4N1 and WakeupUK,

You kind of have confirmed the reasons that i thought we wanted Khalistan, but thank you for replying, it has been an interesting read...there's just a few points i'd like to reply to please.

'Did the 100,000+ innocent Sikhs killed by the goverment for being accused of "terrorism" die in vain? Yeh Sikhs fight amongst themselves, but we don exactly kill one another over differences, just look at how the Muslims do that to eachother.'

Actually how many stories do you hear of sikhs killing their NRI relatives for property, sikh stabbing at the vaisakhi mela few years ago, the high profile religious sikh who was killed in europe not too long ago....i could go on...

The motives for killings like these go on everywhere on this planet, in every race and religion, this is no reason why we Sikhs should not have our own country.

'One of the 52 hukams by Guroo Gobind Singh ji is to RULE INDEPENDENTLY'

Wow i've never seen these before, i'm really impressed, that sounds beautiful! I think there are plenty of points on there that we could all quite easily work on indevidually; to improve ourselves. Why not let us all make these changes in ourselves before targeting something that will require a lot of hard work and effort to achieve......not that i'm afraid of hard work lol....maybe then when we are ready we will be better equipped to achieve it?......................or maybe the issue is that it's easier to fight for khalistan then improve ourselves wiht the other 51 hukams?............just my thoughts.

Could we not try and achieve inner bliss as well as campaign for a Sikh homeland at the same time. We know what has been done to our people and religion is inhuman, the Indian goverment has basically ripped our hearts out and urinated on our very essence. For Gods sake they attacked Harminder Sahib, raped Sikh women et . Why would a Sikh want to wait any longer for freedom.

'RSS and BJP'

Please forgive my blondness, but what do the above 2 mean, what sort of issues do they stand for?

As well as Congress these are Ultra Hindu extremist political parties which are against all other religions, worse than the Nazi's. Whom

are very much in contol of Indian poltics, and are very much behind the genocide which goes on in India.

'there is indications in fact the Indian government has infiltrated the Sikhs communities, and are causing much of these arguments so that Sikh community will not come into union.'

Do you really believe the indian government is causing all the arguments amongst sikhs.....even all those similar arguments that sikhs fight over outside of india? Has it ever occured to you that people are reponsible for their own actions......or should we keep playing this blame game, where the indian government has infiltrated everything and everyone. I don't agree with everything that the indian governemnt does, but i think we should be learn to be responsible for our own actions and mistakes....it doesn't always have to be someone else's fault.

Yes I really do think that the Indian govermnet spies are causing trouble within the Sikh community abroad and India and are creating negative propaganda against Sikhs. The air India flight bombing from Canada to Indian, had Indian goverment involvment, if they can do that why can't they distort Sikh communities. Yes I also accept that we cause some problems ourselves, but the Indian goverment is not going to leave any proof or tell us they are causing problems within our communties.

'I am sure once we have our own country we can combat such addiction like alcoholism and smoking'

I'll give you and analogy; What's the point of buying a brand new house, that is really dirty and then moving in without cleaning it? Surely it would make more sense to tackle these issues amongst the sikh community first so we could make a clean fresh start...

When would you wait till, when there is no real Sikh left in Punjab. Being in India is far more dirty than what we would create for ourselves. This fresh start you talk about will never happen, we are not a plague of irresponible people that can't look after ourselves, we can tackle all these issues after we have our new land, that should be our priority.

'At present, in the future and the Past the Sikh religion and people have been and will be under continuous attack by the Indian government by means of attacking us physical - The genocide of Sikhs throughout the 80's in Indian specially Punjab'

I agree with your point on the genocide of sikhs in the 80's, they were absolutley horrific! .....but from what i understand alot of those sikhs weren't fighting for khalistan they were just going about their daily lives when attacked, even alot of people in Sri Harminder Sahib, they were just there for darshan, they didn't go there with the intention of fighting for khalistan. So i don't think its right to say they died in vain, becuase they were just innocent people caught in the middle, Waheguru.

I did not say they died in vain. Yes alot of people were just going about their normal business, like for example young Sikh men in their thousands were picked up for just being Sikhs and then killed in fake encouters, or young Sikh women were raped just because they were SIkhs this proves my point further that we should have our own country.

'Sikhs will live freely without persecutions and have self determination'

That sounds like a beautiful dream paji, but i think it's a long way from reality at the moment

This may seem a long way off, but if the majority of Sikhs agree we need our own land this will be our first step.

BTW i don't watch bollywood or zee cinema, i don't dismiss sikhs calls as overreacting, but i just personally feel that there are more major issues wrong with ourselves which we should fix before we try something like 'saving the world'. How can we seek to improve society and the sikh community if we cannot improve ourselves first.

We should not seek to improve society or save the world as a priority, but we need to save our faith and people first.

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