Man'S Turban Stolen In Southampton Race Attack

[dalsingh101 411]

I think so many apnay live in a fantasy world these days. Living off the glory of their ancestors. Despite all the macho warrior posturing, plenty of Sikhs still seem to get bullied and bashed about at ground level in the diaspora. As usual most of the community doesn't seem to want to face this ugly truth and that almost guarantees it will continue.

Anyway, it isn't worth saying any more on it because it's obvious that we seem to have crossed some threshold and are set on a trajectory that ensures our financial/economic well being but at a cost. Am I the only one who feels somewhat embarrassed at the dichotomy between our supposed warrior credentials with what often goes on at street level?

I know it's a complicated issue, but still, if a problem does exist, unless we first acknowledge it, we have no chance to trying to resolve it.

[Singh559 2,628]

To me, this picture speaks very powerfully. It shows that a Sikhs actions and jeevan is what shapes the Sikh over what kind of dastaar you wear...

Sharda and love for the panth.

[Kalsingh 92]

I think so many apnay live in a fantasy world these days. Living off the glory of their ancestors. Despite all the macho warrior posturing, plenty of Sikhs still seem to get bullied and bashed about at ground level in the diaspora. As usual most of the community doesn't seem to want to face this ugly truth and that almost guarantees it will continue.

Anyway, it isn't worth saying any more on it because it's obvious that we seem to have crossed some threshold and are set on a trajectory that ensures our financial/economic well being but at a cost. Am I the only one who feels somewhat embarrassed at the dichotomy between our supposed warrior credentials with what often goes on at street level?

I know it's a complicated issue, but still, if a problem does exist, unless we first acknowledge it, we have no chance to trying to resolve it.

The only way people are going to think twice about messing with a singh or his dastar is if some sort of group like the SP is formed again. They had pride and no fear. They stuck together. Mind you, there were probably even more attacks on singhs back in those days but at least they were dealt with.

Pride in being sikh has fallen due to corrupt influences of bollywood, western culture, and a decline in religion overall. If more people got into sikhi, were taught it early on, it would just be a matter of time before we had a group like SP surface again.

[dalsingh101 411]

Pride in being sikh has fallen due to corrupt influences of bollywood, western culture, and a decline in religion overall. If more people got into sikhi, were taught it early on, it would just be a matter of time before we had a group like SP surface again.

It's more complicated than that. The guys I knew from that crew weren't all religious. Sure some were, but the majority weren't practicing. They would drink too. Many were as proud of being Panjabi as Sikh. They were a very diverse group. But you are right in that they had a strong sense of pride in their heritage.

What united them all was a sense of being attacked from outside and the understanding that a failure to unite would cause even more problems. That's why it worked despite being filled with monay and keshdharis. They weren't as judgmental with each other as we seem today?

[subaig singh mma 8]

vjkk vjkf

Sikhs need to learn self protection and up-to-date, modern combative systems. The focus should be on avoidance of conflict and the use of verbal deterrants and controlling of personal space via a 'fence', backed up with a small but highly aggressive skillset to end violence quickly, as a last resort. The problem with Sikhs is that they dont take this kind of thing seriously. Even in Nottingham I have tried to run self protection classes but young people dont wanna know. There are two different kinds. Some just think that its not important and they dont need it. Others think that they are some kind of super hero babbar shere that are so hard that they dont need to learn this kind of stuff. ... Both get equally battered when it comes down to it. Even Singhs who do alot of 'combat sewa' for the panth could learn alot from modern combative systems and become alot more effective.

I do not believe that vigilante groups are the answer to this problem. Because whilst the members of these groups may be able to handle themselves, they cant be everywhere all the time and weaker sikhs and the vulnerable will still get targeted. in fact attacks on weaker sikhs would probably increase with the rising of vigilante groups due to revenge attacks on easier targets. Whilst, I encourage people to defend themselves if there is no other choice, I do not think that it is wise to encourage sikhs to go out and fight and end up in jail with criminal records as that is simply not wise and not the sign of a well thought through and tactical strategy. Especially when our community will be the first to criticise them.

In essence, Sikhs should take it upon themselves to take responsiblity for their own safety. I have said this a million times. People agree with me. Some come and train for a class or two then you never see them again. Every day you hear on Sikhsangat about sikhs getting battered, racism and beadbi. As a kaum we are all over the place. We have no strategy and get battered every day. When we do fight back, we just come out aggressively and attempt to fight battles that we cant win and still get battered as it is not co-ordinated and is more an emotional reaction than a tactical one.

For more info on modern combative methods designed for people who deal with violence for a living such as bouncers, police, special forces, guards etc, read up on Lee Morrison, Urban Combatives, Geoff Thompson, Bill Kipp, FAST defence

Vjkk vjkf

[dalsingh101 411]

Whilst, I encourage people to defend themselves if there is no other choice, I do not think that it is wise to encourage sikhs to go out and fight and end up in jail with criminal records as that is simply not wise and not the sign of a well thought through and tactical strategy. Especially when our community will be the first to criticise them.

I understand what you are saying, and indeed, I believe the lack of wider support certain groups experienced in the face of trying to combat problems in the way they did, played a big part in their later inaction and even disillusionment.

That being said, in many urban areas, reputations (based on prior action) do seem to work as a strong deterrent to aggression. It's a sad fact but it's true. I've seen it working with Jamaicans and 'asians' against racist whites in the past. I've seen Pakistanis later use this against aggressive members of the black community in certain areas.

Now, I'm not supporting or condoning it, but I am making the objective observation that it does seem to work (for a while at least). A real fear of swift and harsh retribution makes people back off. This is what swung things against all the 'paki bashing' that used to go on years ago in many areas.

To be frank, whilst I agree with your sentiment, a part of me wonders, is it at all possible to live without being harassed and perceived as being soft touches, in hostile environments without aggressive retaliation and sacrifice? Especially as it sometimes appears as if we just aren't the type of quom that can unite and put together more sophisticated, nuanced plans to deal with such matters? I don't think our new generation have the stomach or inclination for that street stuff now in any case, so there is nothing to worry about in that department. But this lack of ability to deal with our own problems does play a part in some dimwitted brothers joining and/or supporting outfits like the EDL or the BNP though.

By the way, if you are the brother that fights in the cage, you're awesome dude! lol

[Kalsingh 92]

Subaig Singh and Dalsingh, you are both right.

We need singhs to be confident enough in themselves to handle these attacks. They need to have the confidence (and no fear if it goes into a physical confrontation) and also the ability to handle themselves in a street fight.

A protection group would also be a good thing for when and if there is a big riot and also to show that our community is not to be messed with. However, as Subaig Singh said, if this character was in built in each and every individual singh or sikh, they'd naturally all get together when something big goes down anyway.

[VanHelsingh 1,976]

What would be the best martial art one could learn? Is Krav Maga any good or is it just hype?

I'm not looking for trouble on the streets but there's no harm in getting fit AND learning how to defend yourself. I like the look of kick-boxing but if there's any others that the sangat recommends, I'm all ears.

[BhaiSukhSingh 7]

What would be the best martial art one could learn? Is Krav Maga any good or is it just hype?

I'm not looking for trouble on the streets but there's no harm in getting fit AND learning how to defend yourself. I like the look of kick-boxing but if there's any others that the sangat recommends, I'm all ears.

i think any form of martial art is good, you will have the confidence and form to defend yourself and your sikhi. be it boxxing kickboxxing kali or if judo. For our sister the self defence classes r a must i think but i believe the simple for of gatka is not for the street. (It does help as it makes you self aware)

Ive said it before we should be putting our chilldren in some kind of training from the age of 5 like be for be it kickboxing kung fu knowing abit of martial art is better than knowing none

[BhaiSukhSingh 7]

Sikhs Fought sava lakh but at that time they knew that they are embracing death.We cannot say that Sikhs always applied that tactics.Sikhs Used Guerrilla warfare technique when their numerical strength was low which is a kind of hit and run technique.

ye ur rite but we cant even hit and run we just seem to just stand there and take it and think this is my karm

[Kalsingh 92]

What would be the best martial art one could learn? Is Krav Maga any good or is it just hype?

I'm not looking for trouble on the streets but there's no harm in getting fit AND learning how to defend yourself. I like the look of kick-boxing but if there's any others that the sangat recommends, I'm all ears.

Muay Thai is good. One muay thai dude was able to take out seven men by himself on the street. The attacks are devastating.

The most important thing is to concentrate on developing a knock out blow. Our brother Subaig Singh recommended looking up Geoff Thompson. This guy used to be a bouncer and knows what works on the street and what doesn't. He knows what he's on about. He emphasises a 'fence' tactic to curb the situation and if all else fails, a good 'pre-emptive' strike to the jaw to finish the situation off in a couple of seconds. Look at his dvds. They're the best thing to go for at least, if you're not going to get into a martial art.

If you're not going to get into a martial art, then at least train your muscles and develop a good solid punch (and know where to hit, this is where Geoff Thompson will teach you alot). Most of the time, this is all you will need.

[subaig singh mma 8]

I think that it is a myth that some races are more martial than others. I believe that all humans have two arms and legs and that anyone can learn how to fight. I feel that one problem that some Sikhs suffer from is that they think that all they need to be good fighters is anakh, warrior spirit, or aggression. Sometimes this is reflected in their language, when they specify that they want to 'die for the panth' or sacrifice themselves or become shaheed. Clearly this kind of mentality exhibits a great deal of bravery and commitment to a cause, however, this is not the mentality with which battles/fights are won. In fact, many races, that do not share the Sikhs' enthusiasm for shaheedi and warrior spirit, do much better in street fights than many Sikhs do. We as a community should not be under any illusion about our vulnerablilties. In fact, we are more likely to survive, if we recognise ourselves as vulnerable and weak and organise our strategies around that concept. I think that we put too much pressure on ourselves and try to act like we should be able to fight sava lakh, despite doing no training. .. then we get all surprised and shocked that not only can we not fight sava lakh, but we cant even fight one-on-one. Why not just accept that we are no different to anyone else and have to put just as much time and effort into self protection as any other race/community.

Regarding martial arts training, you need to be specific about your goal. Take my example, I train mixed martial arts, for the purpose of fighting in the cage and fight other guys one-on-one who have been training for the same purpose. In fact, fighting in the cage has been the culmination of about 12 years of experience in martial arts. In my case, I train for sporting purposes, and this does not necessarily translate that well to other areas such as street fighting, modern day battlefield etc. So, if you want to train for sport than recognise that you are doing that. If you want to train for the street, then the focus needs to be street martial arts. I recommend Krav Maga or other combative systems such as Urban Combatives by Lee Morrison or FAST defence. These are small curricula that are easy to learn and dont require many many years of training. Lee Morrison often states that if he cant teach you technqiues that you could go out and use effectively on the street in ten minutes, then you need to find another instructor. These kind of small combative systems were taught to soldiers in WW2 when they only had a few days training to learn how to fight hand to hand combat. One such manual of hand to hand combat can be found here: It is called Get Tough by WE Fairbairn and shows the kind of unarmed techniques that soldiers were taught before being sent to war:

http://www.tsroadmap.com/early/tough.pdf

One thing I would suggest when finding a martial art is that there needs to be an element of pressure testing in the art that you choose to persue. If you dont get to try your techniques out against a resisting opponent trying their best to stop you, then how will you make your moves work in a street fight? In that respect, thats why many sport martial artists such as boxers and wrestlers do better in street fighter because they are used to employing their techniques under pressure and against a resisting opponent.

As an anecdote, I have a friend who learns shastar vidya from Niddar Singh who got into a street fight on a bus with several white youths. Whilst he did ok, he didnt do brilliantly and didnt use any of the techniques that he had learnt in the classes. Why? Because he never had the opportunity to pressure test his skills under the influence of adrenaline and emotional anger that you feel in a street fight when you are in a proper fight. That is why FAST training where you get to employ your techniques under pressure against a fully padded opponent are so important:

If you train in sports combat, the advantage you have is that you will be used to pressure, adrenaline, fear and competition, ie fighting someone who is also trying to beat you. If you train street combatives or other martial arts then you need scenario training and full contact drill to simulate what a real fight feels like. Alot of people knock gatka and say that it has lost his martial sting. However, I bet if you put on protective equipment and used foam covered gatka sticks and went full contact, you would quickly learn what works and what doesnt and, as a direct consequence become alot more 'martial'.

[VanHelsingh 1,976]

Awesome advice Subaig Singh. A very good read.

[fastdefence 0]

Wjkk wjkf,

I have been involved with the FAST defence / combatives system

for over 5years, I am an instructor and will be holding short courses

in the UK. Email me for more details fastcombatives@hotmail.co.uk for more

details.

Roop.

Wjkk wjkf

[Singh559 2,628]

Wow amazing information and great PDF.