Do Moneh Have The Right To Ask Sikh Question Or Talk About Sikhi?

[Only five]

In the same way there is no muslim and Hindu... there is no mona sikh or amritdhari sikh...

Satguru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj is back. Everyone get Consciousness darshan................give your address and phone number OOOOO great one so we can have your darshan.

[taran0]

In the same way there is no muslim and Hindu... there is no mona sikh or amritdhari sikh...

to a certain extent and from a certain standpoint consciousness is right - maanas ki jaat sabhe ekai pehchaanbo , etc

ek noor teh sabh jag upjeya koun paley ko mandey

and also the story of Bhai Kanhaiya who riled the Sikhs by offering water to the enemy, when asked he said he saw only one in all

so at a very deep spiritual level this is true, but we are still entities which must live in the physical world and must follow a path and must have a Guru. we still need a way to traverse the dark age as oneness alone can also lead to someone running in all directions, with no path to pass onto the next generation. Without a path there is ambiguity even if they all reach the same place we cannot take many paths, we must choose one.

so we are children of our guru and we follow his path, if we abandon this, thinking we are free

then you have just forgot the mother that gave birth to you, no matter where you go in the world or what you become

she will always be your mother and she will always be your source

our source - our link back to the original Ek Oangkaar

is Guru Nanak and our path is Sikhi

I will start a new topic where we can discuss this with references from gurbani

[VanHelsingh]

LOL

What did I say wrong, haha? Do you really want to see a clean-shaven Sikh sitting in Maharaj's hazoori? If there was an apocalypse and all the Singhs were out fighting or something, lol, then I could see the justification for that happening, but when there's so many Gursikhs ready and willing and have stepped onto the Path, then having the clean-shaven fella in that situation just seems a bit weird to me. He can do it all in his own home, I have no issue with that. In-fact I know some who do it all, and keep sucham, etc., but just can't make that final leap to keeping uncut hair. They aren't bad people. Yet Gurdwaras, as beacons for Sikhi not to just for us but non-Sikhs too, should highlight those who have given their head to Guru Sahib and they should be front and centre not just in deeds but from their heart too, of course. Just my opinion.

[Consciousness]

to a certain extent and from a certain standpoint consciousness is right - maanas ki jaat sabhe ekai pehchaanbo , etc

ek noor teh sabh jag upjeya koun paley ko mandey

and also the story of Bhai Kanhaiya who riled the Sikhs by offering water to the enemy, when asked he said he saw only one in all

so at a very deep spiritual level this is true, but we are still entities which must live in the physical world and must follow a path and must have a Guru. we still need a way to traverse the dark age as oneness alone can also lead to someone running in all directions, with no path to pass onto the next generation. Without a path there is ambiguity even if they all reach the same place we cannot take many paths, we must choose one.

so we are children of our guru and we follow his path, if we abandon this, thinking we are free

then you have just forgot the mother that gave birth to you, no matter where you go in the world or what you become

she will always be your mother and she will always be your source

our source - our link back to the original Ek Oangkaar

is Guru Nanak and our path is Sikhi

I will start a new topic where we can discuss this with references from gurbani

The oneness I was referring to when I said there is no hindu, muslim and sikh is this:

ਪਰਾਤਮਾ ਬਾਚ ॥

परातमा बाच ॥

The Higher Soul said:

ਯਹਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਆਹਿ ਆਤਮਾ ਰਾਮ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਅਮਿਤ ਤੇਜਿ ਅਬਿਗਤ ਅਕਾਮ ॥

यहि ब्रहम आहि आतमा राम ॥ जिह अमित तेजि अबिगत अकाम ॥

This Soul is itself Brahman;" Who is of Everlasting Glory and is Unmanisfested and Desireless.

ਜਿਹ ਭੇਦ ਭਰਮ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰਮ ਕਾਲ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਸਤ੍ਰ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਸਰਬਾ ਦਿਆਲ ॥੩॥੧੨੮॥

जिह भेद भरम नहीं करम काल ॥ जिह सत्र मित्र सरबा दिआल ॥३॥१२८॥

Who is indiscriminate, actionless and deathless; Who hath no enemy and friend and is Merciful towards all.3.1228.

ਡੋਬਿਓ ਨ ਡੁਬੈ ਸੋਖਿਓ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਕਟਿਓ ਨ ਕਟੈ ਨ ਬਾਰਿਯੋ ਬਰਾਇ ॥

डोबिओ न डुबै सोखिओ न जाइ ॥ कटिओ न कटै न बारियो बराइ ॥

It is neither drowned nor soaked; It can neither be chopped nor burnt.

ਛਿਜੈ ਨ ਨੈਕ ਸਤ ਸਸਤ੍ਰ ਪਾਤ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਸਤ੍ਰ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਤ ਪਾਤ ॥੪॥੧੨੯॥

छिजै न नैक सत ससत्र पात ॥ जिह सत्र मित्र नहीं जात पात ॥४॥१२९॥

It cannot be assailed by the blow of weapon; It hath neither an enemy nor a friend, neither caste not lineage.4.129.

ਸਤ੍ਰ ਸਹੰਸ ਸਤ ਸਤ ਪ੍ਰਘਾਇ ॥ ਛਿਜੈ ਨ ਨੈਕ ਖੰਡਿਓ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥

सत्र सहंस सत सत प्रघाइ ॥ छिजै न नैक खंडिओ न जाइ ॥

By the blow of thousands of enemies, It is neither wasted away nor fragmented.

ਨਹੀ ਜਰੈ ਨੈਕ ਪਾਵਕ ਮੰਝਾਰ ॥ ਬੋਰੈ ਨ ਸਿੰਧ ਸੋਖੈ ਨ ਬਯਾਰ ॥੫॥੧੩੦॥

नही जरै नैक पावक मंझार ॥ बोरै न सिंध सोखै न बयार ॥५॥१३०॥

It is not burnt even in the fire. It is neither drowned in the sea nor soaked by the air.5.13

This is who we are not the body or mind that's what gurbani is for to get rid of this ignorance and realise our true self. Mistake is thinking that you are person (ego) being born - really we were never born. This body/mind/ego has been born into countless number of families and has had millions of mothers and religions and will continue to do so. Some lives this ego has been born a sikh, some muslim, some hindu and in different religions as well.

The ego will continue to be born again and again but IT IS NOT ME. My true self has always been free and is Not a sikh, muslim or Hindu. Don't keep attachment to what religion or mother you are born to find your true self/God and then the searching for GOD will end. No more seeking and no more suffering we must transcend the ego and Gurbanis aim is to help the ego realise this.

A path is only needed to achieve our goal to find ourselves but the source once realised requires nothing from us. My true self is the guru/God and my ego/body/mind is the slave of the guru/god and has always been.

[taran0]

No more seeking and no more suffering we must transcend the ego and Gurbanis aim is to help the ego realise this.

A path is only needed to achieve our goal to find ourselves but the source once realised requires nothing from us. My true self is the guru/God and my ego/body/mind is the slave of the guru/god and has always been.

you have just said a path is only needed to achieve our goal, so a path is still needed.

Maarag Paaeae Oudhiaan Mehi Gur Dhasae Bhaeth ||1||

In the wilderness, the guru places them on the path, and reveals the secrets of the Lord's Mystery. ||1||

Ang 810

Eihu Jag Andhhaa Sabh Andhh Kamaavai Bin Gur Mag N Paaeae ||

This world is blind, and all act blindly; without the guru, no one finds the path.

Ang 603

Guru Gobind Singh ji was one with God ( DVAI TE EK ROOP HAVAI GEYO ) but he still forged a path through kalyug , so people could have a chance.

PANTH CHALEY TABH JAGAT MEH JAB TUM KARO SAHAY

i will start this new path in the world, when you help me to do so

and then he bowed to it and submitted to this path himself - even though he was one with God

[Consciousness]

you have just said a path is only needed to achieve our goal, so a path is still needed.

Maarag Paaeae Oudhiaan Mehi Gur Dhasae Bhaeth ||1||

In the wilderness, the guru places them on the path, and reveals the secrets of the Lord's Mystery. ||1||

Ang 810

Eihu Jag Andhhaa Sabh Andhh Kamaavai Bin Gur Mag N Paaeae ||

This world is blind, and all act blindly; without the guru, no one finds the path.

Ang 603

Guru Gobind Singh ji was one with God ( DVAI TE EK ROOP HAVAI GEYO ) but he still forged a path through kalyug , so people could have a chance.

PANTH CHALEY TABH JAGAT MEH JAB TUM KARO SAHAY

i will start this new path in the world, when you help me to do so

and then he bowed to it and submitted to this path himself - even though he was one with God

Yes, agreed but I never said not to have a path also a path does not necessarily mean a religion either some sort of sat gyan or practice or whatever is needed to realise yourself. The path can also be through religion and yes sikhi will definitely help someone realise the truth. No hindu, no muslim and no sikh etc does not mean having a path as I explained. The oneness also does not mean that all religions are equal - what was meant in simple terms was the nirgun saroop in everyone is the same.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

On 8/11/2013 at 7:57 AM, SSD said:

I believe that if we want to become Gursikhs than we should start out as not viewing people as Kesh-Cuters any less than those who keep Kesh, One the original Panj Pyare used to be a barber, and also Bhagat Sain, Kesh could make you more holy, however to be enlightened it takes more than just keeping Kesh, everyone who ever converted to Sikhi used to cut their hairs, and if we actually taught the Sehajdhari today maybe they will change as well. Guru Ji did ask as to keep Kesh, I understand that fact completely; keeping Kesh can only be done if someone knows why they are doing it.{Bhagat Singh kept his Kesh after meeting Bhai Rahinder Singh, Bhagat Singh stated that he only kept his Kesh in the first place was because of his family traditions, prior to meeting Bhai Ji he kept his Kesh.} So we should at least give them a chance maybe they'll change, I used to be Sehajdhari because I didn't like to follow blind faith; but learning more about Sikhi and Bhai Taru Singh I have kept my Kesh; even once I kept my Kesh I feel like there is still so much to learn, maybe Waheguru just brings people to the truth at the right time. However, if you want to truly follow Sikhi and follow your Guru, and continue mediation, if you understand why we keep Kesh you probably should do it

This view still holds the same for me now. (SSD and Jacfsing2 are the same person,) I wanted to bump this thread in case anyone wanted to still respond, the Kesh is not the be all of being a Sikh, and even when I was a Mona, I wasn't some crazy bad guy, but still trying to find the truth. Sometimes I feel like the old people in our Panth seem to be too judgemental to those who made mistakes. Another reason for bumping this thread to see if anyone wanted to add something to it. (Also some folks seem to believe they inspired me, when really it was Gur-Prassad, not their judgemental attitudes which brought me to Gurmat again).

[Khalistanisinghni]

The problem is not with Moneh "Sikhs" talking about sikhi. It is when they claim to touch on the sensitive issues, such as Dasam bani, raagmala, bhagati, nihung singhs' maryada. If a mona goes to the gurdwara, does the sewa of shoes/kitchen utensils, or constantly seeks to be closer to guru ji- reads bani/reads books/listens to katha, it is all well.

 

giani kulwant singh and some other less-known scholars/great-beings deny the idea of sehajdhari sikhs as such, they say that such sikhs are those born in other religions but found themselves in sikhi. 

 

And moneh Sikhs have to stop pinpointing at amritdharis with faults. They started their journey already, they are fixing themselves, when you couldn't even follow the primary rehat of being a Sikh.

[jkvlondon]

4 hours ago, Khalistanisinghni said:

The problem is not with Moneh "Sikhs" talking about sikhi. It is when they claim to touch on the sensitive issues, such as Dasam bani, raagmala, bhagati, nihung singhs' maryada. If a mona goes to the gurdwara, does the sewa of shoes/kitchen utensils, or constantly seeks to be closer to guru ji- reads bani/reads books/listens to katha, it is all well.

 

giani kulwant singh and some other less-known scholars/great-beings deny the idea of sehajdhari sikhs as such, they say that such sikhs are those born in other religions but found themselves in sikhi. 

 

And moneh Sikhs have to stop pinpointing at amritdharis with faults. They started their journey already, they are fixing themselves, when you couldn't even follow the primary rehat of being a Sikh.

I agree somewhat with your words ... the problems come from people being judged as not being knowledgeable enough because of outward bhes to question such matters.  

The definition you mention is the definition mentioned in old rehitname as sehajdhari have slightly different expected rehit before they become full sikhs by charan di pahul where they would have to increase their banian and keep gursikh roop in full.. 

Those who have gained entry to the path should really be loving and welcoming to the seekers , prem will achieve much more than harshness to change those peoples' internal impression. I have heard many times that amritdharis are too harsh and judgemental, they look down on us etc etc . If Guru ji can save Ganika , Sajjan Thug and the worst of the worst surely being His children we can accept that these seekers are asking because their time has come to be drawn closer .

[MisterrSingh]

1 hour ago, Khalistanisinghni said:

And moneh Sikhs have to stop pinpointing at amritdharis with faults. They started their journey already, they are fixing themselves, when you couldn't even follow the primary rehat of being a Sikh.

I go hard on fellow Amritdharis on this site. I believe we need to conduct ourselves with the necessary decorum befitting of those who've taken amrit, and hold ourselves to a higher standard. However, that unfortunately translates to some of us assuming airs and graces that are frankly laughable. It's the ego gone rampant, and I think most of this behaviour originates from some parcharaks and holy men filling impressionable heads with certain views in order to increase Amritdhari numbers so that being Gursikh carries a certain sense of prestige. And we know that humans love feeling unique and special. Extra masala is not needed to lend Gursikhi prestige. It speaks for itself.

However, I agree with the above opinion in bold to an extent. I should preface my words with the fact that the "best" Sikhs I've ever known (however one chooses to measure such things: knowledge, humility, wisdom, patience) started off as moneh. 

BUT there's a small group who have no intention of ever lowering their head in humility at the feet of Guru Sahib, yet they see no issue with pontificating about Sikh issues they should think twice about commenting on as if they're approaching the situation from a place of authority. I can understand if these guys are actively working towards a stage of adopting Gursikhi, no matter how gradually, but in most cases there's never any intention of doing so. Everyone can have an opinion, no problem, but there's certain things that people need to understand can only be discussed with any perceivable sense of confidence and comprehension if you've walked that path yourself.

Anyway, apologies if I've offended anyone. This subject is particularly sensitive for people on both sides of the divide.