Takht No To ‘Patit’ Sikhs In Gurdwara Panels Abroad

[Singh559 2,644]

Agreed with chatanga, just because one is Amritdhari, it doesn't qualify them or make them immune to public scrutiny. He never insinuated that monas should be allowed to run Gurdwaras, he's just pointing out an inconvenient truth that stings.

Mera 22g 0bama says it the best:

[N30S1NGH 3,140]

Jaspreet singh ji,

Please show the sangata how it should be done.

Shall we start talking about tribalism politics in local gurdwara you go to?

At this rate I wouldn't trust so called gurdwara commitee members of my local gurdwara with my son day care activities let alone guru maharaj gurdwara.. Sorry khalsa title is earned by actions not empty words or rhetoric not automatically given to any Joe blow who appear to be sikh.

[californiasardar1 201]

This completely overlooks the fact that there are Gurdwaras with hardly any amritdhari sangat. Where are those gurdwaras supposed to get their committee members from?

[jaspreet1 92]

jaspreet, your post smacks of idealism, not realism.

and stop twisting what i am saying, if you think that being amritdhari automatically makes you better to handle the job of running a gurdwara, why are so mnay gurdwaras in the UK, which are run by amritdharis performing so badly.

why is it that the gurdwaras run by people elected on the basis that they are amritdhari and so they must know what they are doing, making a mess of the gurdwara s and messing up the next generation.

the truth is that it is best to have amritdharis who are actually good at management running gurdwaras. failing that then its best to get kesadharis who know how to.

i have never said a mona is better equipped, just that being amritdhari is not the only requirement for gurdwara management.

stop making out words in my name, you are beginning to remind me of some of the people who i have worked with in the past. yes amritdhari ones amongst them.

I made it very clear in my second sentence who can successfully run Gurdwaras. Since you and others missed it the first time. Here it is again:

I have seen personally the Sikh community grow when Amritdhari/Sehajdhari Sikhs take control of a Gurdwara or be another institution like a school. Do you know why they are successful. Not because how smart they are or how well they are able to make connections with stakeholders in the community. But because they bow at the feet of Guru ji and let Guru ji run the show by following instructions.

And for your idealism and realism remark. I see how you want to play God because I have been down that road. I have no desire to play God and all I can do is ardas. Akaali Phula Singh ji did ardas, Baba Buddha ji did ardas, Bhai Lehna ji did ardas, Bhai Sati Das ji did ardas, Baba Gurbaksh Singh ji did ardas and the list goes on. You want to play God by saying pick the better of the two bad apples and let one of them dictate what is Gurmat in a Gurdwara is only going to put the Khalsa Panth in a worse position. And this will create even a bigger divide where the next generation will completely lose all values of Sikhi.

When Gursikhs like Baba Buddha ji and Bhai Mani Singh ji were in charge of running Sikh institutions the Khalsa Panth stood strong no matter how much "suffering" it went through. Sant Jarnail Singh ji showed how to run Sikh institution and look at the glory of how many shaheeds the Khalsa Panth had step up to defend the truth. Look now at your hand where people like you want to play God. By playing God you have lost the youth and have lost the Sikhs that once stood along side Sant Jarnail Singh ji on the platform of truth for every human and creature.

[sukhi077 42]

Pardon my ignorance, but exactly where did i say slate anybody ???

So, why be questioning me on the assumption that I am only pointing at bad amritdharies and the few good monas, and making it seem that is the global picture ???

The FACT is that most amritdharies don't give monas the benefit of doubt. They immediately assume they are not good enough. ........This is one of the messages of my above post.

Anyway, my question was .

.What is a patit ??

does anyone actually understant what the term is for ?

It seems, most of us think that ALL monas are patits !!!

Patit means who is living out of the bana(identity of sikhism).. There is nothing like good and bad to judge among them....infact these things come in the character of people..

At some point it seems like " they (patit) want to take the taste of Gurus but they don't wanna give their own taste to Gurus..." that means again "They wanna take the 100 percent of

gurus but they don't wanna give their 100 percent to the gurus..."

There are thousands of hindus ,muslims, Christians who believe in the teachings of the gurus and follow them but does it mean that we should give them right to judge our own people as per as sikhi and allow them to take part in our sikh administrations and managements? ??? hmm?...

In the same way there will be enough sikhs who believe in the philosophy of others religion (Even we know our Gurus have told us respect all religions but always be with your own

roots) so do you think that other people would like to introduce sikhs in their management committees ??? hmm?

Sikhi does not say or force to follow it.. it is everybody's own life and he can live in whatever the way he wants...but when it comes to sikhi and wanna take the taste of it then everyone needs commitments towards it.and honesty without any single hypocrisy like "sikhi is done with heart not with hair"...tell me that's what our gurus have taught us???

After few years there will not be enough sardars in this world because we have been addicted of fashionable and worldly life.... and then we will be able to appoint any mona as granthi

or paathi?? aje ta gal sirf commitee di ho rahi a...

my point is its not with sikhi only but in every religion there are performing the same things....for example in buddhism we will see the management of those who look like budhist....in hindus we see brahimns management...in christians we see the preference of priests who look like jesus....and the same case with rest of the religions....

I want to illustrate it with some examples:---when we go to take admission in some school we are served with some guide book in which school states its principles and rules regarding

uniform ,shoes, socks , color of uniforms,behavior that has to be maintained by student in the school,,how to sit or stand how to attend assembly...etc etc....but at the same time we see there are different majors (subjects) in the school like science ,math, social sciences etc etc to be taught by teachers...tell me now have these majors to do anything with the principles and rules that are mentioned in guide book of school???

Guide book is a book that tells the student how to be disciplined as long as in this school...when you left it and join some other school you have to follow principles and rules of that school...simple..

In my school times I have always been in the merit of school...got every time more than 80 percent marks .....but at the same time i had a naughty mind and inappropriate habits for an example..I used to reach school after assembly just because I never wanted to stand for so long time in the morning and I was always wearing sneakers.. my favourite shoes lol and sometimes my pant was so narrow from below and as a result they sent me back to home just from school gate.. and as a reward from the management of school I had been punished for these things many times.....

after some time I realized the things when my teacher told me "getting high marks and being bright student in reading the books does not make you good student unless you don't follow the rules and regulations of this school. you are not in your home where you can do anything you want. Not only this school but no any other school will be accepting you if you don't follow their rules and principles .....

At last..we come to sikhi ,...I would say sehajdhari word was made for those who come to panth slowly .. ...not for those who will go to barber's shop everyday in the morning and after having shave on face and blade on head they stand up and after looking themselves in the mirror of the barber 's shop they say "yes I am sikh and i m so proud of it and sikhi is done with heart not with hair"........... and then they come to their home then after having bath they go to gurudwara and bow down in front of SGGS ji....... that's what I call a cheap level of hypocrisy (for whatever the reason they have ).....

This world never seen sardars doing the rape of girls....

This world world never seen sardars begging on roads...

This world never seen sardars teasing the girls physically ...

and many more nice things are about sardars...

but generally we don't even hesitate to compare the sardars with monas..just because we can see few sardars doing the bad things from the thousands of good sardars...

The fault is not in sardars ...the fault lies in the sight of eyes of the people...

[sukhi077 42]

I made it very clear in my second sentence who can successfully run Gurdwaras. Since you and others missed it the first time. Here it is again:

I have seen personally the Sikh community grow when Amritdhari/Sehajdhari Sikhs take control of a Gurdwara or be another institution like a school. Do you know why they are successful. Not because how smart they are or how well they are able to make connections with stakeholders in the community. But because they bow at the feet of Guru ji and let Guru ji run the show by following instructions.

And for your idealism and realism remark. I see how you want to play God because I have been down that road. I have no desire to play God and all I can do is ardas. Akaali Phula Singh ji did ardas, Baba Buddha ji did ardas, Bhai Lehna ji did ardas, Bhai Sati Das ji did ardas, Baba Gurbaksh Singh ji did ardas and the list goes on. You want to play God by saying pick the better of the two bad apples and let one of them dictate what is Gurmat in a Gurdwara is only going to put the Khalsa Panth in a worse position. And this will create even a bigger divide where the next generation will completely lose all values of Sikhi.

When Gursikhs like Baba Buddha ji and Bhai Mani Singh ji were in charge of running Sikh institutions the Khalsa Panth stood strong no matter how much "suffering" it went through. Sant Jarnail Singh ji showed how to run Sikh institution and look at the glory of how many shaheeds the Khalsa Panth had step up to defend the truth. Look now at your hand where people like you want to play God. By playing God you have lost the youth and have lost the Sikhs that once stood along side Sant Jarnail Singh ji on the platform of truth for every human and creature.

Look now at your hand where people like you want to play God. By playing God you have lost the youth and have lost the Sikhs that once stood along side Sant Jarnail Singh ji on the platform of truth for every human and creature.

I just loved these lines.....awesome.......

[chatanga 1,058]

This is the reality.

This completely overlooks the fact that there are Gurdwaras with hardly any amritdhari sangat. Where are those gurdwaras supposed to get their committee members from?

and this is the idealist.

I have no desire to play God and all I can do is ardas. Akaali Phula Singh ji did ardas, Baba Buddha ji did ardas, Bhai Lehna ji did ardas, Bhai Sati Das ji did ardas, Baba Gurbaksh Singh ji did ardas and the list goes on.

Are any of these personalities alive today? No, personalities like these come once a century, so what you going to do in between?

You want to play God by saying pick the better of the two bad apples and let one of them dictate what is Gurmat in a Gurdwara is only going to put the Khalsa Panth in a worse position.

Hold on. I asked you before and I'll ask you again, stop ascribing your words to me. I have never said that anyone will dictate what gurmat is in a gurdwara. The whole nation is pretty much clued up on that generally. As for playing God, it doesnt seem to me that you have given it up either.

If you have two bad apples, and you use neither, what would happen to the majority of Gurdwaras in the UK? Use your brain, and stop being dramatic. We live in the real world of today. Not in the world of our glorious ancestors.

[BritishSingh 96]

Must have Singh after their name, must be keshadhari and Amritdhari

Why is there no representation from Takht Sri Damdama sahib

[DailyMail 307]

California Sardar and Chatanga raise absolutely valid points, as does neoSingh. Many gurdwarae do not have amritdhari sangat, never mind committee members.

[jaspreet1 92]

Are any of these personalities alive today? No, personalities like these come once a century, so what you going to do in between?

You do not understand why I presented Gursikhs as examples. Once in a century. In the last century we saw Bhai Randhir Singh, Sant Thakur Singh ji, Bhai Gurjant Singh ji, Bhai Sukhdev Singh Babbar, Sant Jarnail Singh ji, Baba Nand Singh ji, Sant Kartar Singh ji, Sant Sunder Singh ji, Sant Gurbachan Singh ji, etc. Guess what, all did ardas. None behaved like you or like minded thinkers.

Hold on. I asked you before and I'll ask you again, stop ascribing your words to me. I have never said that anyone will dictate what gurmat is in a gurdwara. The whole nation is pretty much clued up on that generally. As for playing God, it doesnt seem to me that you have given it up either.

If you have two bad apples, and you use neither, what would happen to the majority of Gurdwaras in the UK? Use your brain, and stop being dramatic. We live in the real world of today. Not in the world of our glorious ancestors.

You can use your brain and so far you and like minded thinkers have driven the Panth into the hole deeper by using your brain. Sikhs that do ardas have shown how they have become successful by taking the Guru's path and doing ardas. Yet you call it idealism. For your information when something get's proven and then get's proven numerous times afterwards. That means it is not idealism, but reality.

ਨਾਨਕ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਨ ਚਲਈ ਨਾਲਿ ਖਸਮ ਚਲੈ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ॥੨੨॥

ang 474

O Nanak, no one can issue commands to the Lord Master; let us offer prayers instead. ||22||

[N30S1NGH 3,140]

Alright Jaspreet singh ji I do see your point.. I will start doing ardas soon to guru maharaj ji with full faith, sharda, hopes that sikhs gets justice in India, uproot gurdwara commitee curroptness and right wing extermism in the panth. Any tips you want to give me other than the ones I mentioned above.?

[WaljinderSingh 802]

Why is there no representation from Takht Sri Damdama sahib

I dont know

[jaspreet1 92]

Akal Takhat Issues Aadesh Regarding Gurdwara Committees

By: Sikh24 Editors

AMRITSAR SAHIB (November 27, 2013)—In a decision taken at Sri Akal Takhat Sahib, it was decided that only practicing Sikhs should be allowed to be members of Gurdwara committees. The decision was taken after Sri Akal Takhat Sahib had received numerous complaints about non-practicing Sikhs carrying out anti-Gurmat activities within Gurdwara premises. Many times, these persons are on the Gurdwara committees and do as they please.

Click the link to read further.

http://www.sikh24.com/2013/11/akal-takhat-issues-aadesh-regarding-gurdwara-committees/#.UpfGxtJJ7tA

[Singh559 2,644]

Akal Takhat Issues Aadesh Regarding Gurdwara Committees

By: Sikh24 Editors

AMRITSAR SAHIB (November 27, 2013)—In a decision taken at Sri Akal Takhat Sahib, it was decided that only practicing Sikhs should be allowed to be members of Gurdwara committees. The decision was taken after Sri Akal Takhat Sahib had received numerous complaints about non-practicing Sikhs carrying out anti-Gurmat activities within Gurdwara premises. Many times, these persons are on the Gurdwara committees and do as they please.

Click the link to read further.

http://www.sikh24.com/2013/11/akal-takhat-issues-aadesh-regarding-gurdwara-committees/#.UpfGxtJJ7tA

This is only a very basic step and barely even begins to address the issue of non-Sikhs/nastiks taking over our Gurdwaras. We need a strong Akaal Takhat Jathedar that does not even have a slight grey spot on his honesty and integrity.

We lack proper leadership, once we get that, all these problems will be fixed. Give the people a false leader and make the false leader speak like a leader and you set a people at bay for an indefinite period of time. A good way to pacify a people and give an illusion of something is being accomplished.

Just my .02 cents.

[ks55 77]

i doubt even if we had the best Akal Takht leader things would change in teh Gurdwaras abroad or in Punjab. What 's needed is a panel of sevadaars

representing the akal takht and ensuring the Gurdwaras are monitored and ensure they follow maryada - just like during singh sabha lehar time there was a gurdwara sudaar lehar which ensured Gurdwaras and the main people in the committes followed protocol- till we have that we are nowhere, apologies no offence intended just my 2 cents