Mixed Marriages, I.j. Singh And Guruka Singh Views Analyzed

[thugger]

Couples who'll be revising for it will be laughing at us as they're preparing to take it. They'll be remarking at what a bunch of simpletons we are.

How do I know that? If I was a white guy who wanted to marry a Sikh girl and all I had to do was memorise verses from the Sikh scriptures and regurgitate them infront of a priest in order to make the marriage official, I'd struggle to keep a straight face.

I'll go away now and read Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion and I'll write a mini essay on it tomorrow, or make a short presentation summarising the main arguments of the book. Does that make me an atheist?

If the sanctity of the Anand Karaj hadn't already been adversely affected, this'll be pushing things towards "sham" territory. I'm amazed how Sikhs have jumped on this like it's a magical solution to this issue. The problem lies with the corrupt committees who refuse to uphold maryada.

I get what you're saying but what other options are there?

[MisterrSingh]

I get what you're saying but what other options are there?

The problem is we're a minority as it is. Our numbers aren't the strongest. The Catholics and the Jews can afford, more or less, to conduct this kind of stuff to give the impression that they're okay with a non-Catholic marrying a Catholic along as a few conditions are met.

We can't play at this stuff. We don't have that luxury at all. This is a half measure; a sticking plaster over a gaping wound. If I had my way I'd go the whole nine yards and insist the Akal Takhat pass a universal ruling that only those who've taken Amrit can have an Anand Karaj. Sure, it's throwing the kaka out with the bathwater, but then we'd see how many are truly serious about Sikhi. It'd punish those who have an affinity for Sikhi who aren't Gursikh (amongst other knock-on issues), but at least we wouldn't be open to accusations of double standards or racism, etc.

There's just so many related issues that branch off from this seemingly basic problem; issues that will have a long lasting impact on things beyond the Anand Karaj.

Oh well, I suppose all religions and philosophies go through periods of change where the problems and issues of the age affect them. It's to be expected as the years roll by. I shouldn't get too caught up in these shenanigans, I'm sure wiser and more knowledgeable Sikhs than I have a plan.

[Balkaar]

I get what you're saying but what other options are there?

Hmmn, not quite laying this down as a solution, but I'm inclined to agree with MisterrSingh. The only way we could ever be sure that the prospective bride and groom are practicing Sikhs is if they are Amritdhari.

We can't play at this stuff. We don't have that luxury at all. This is a half measure; a sticking plaster over a gaping wound. If I had my way I'd go the whole nine yards and insist the Akal Takhat pass a universal ruling that only those who've taken Amrit can have an Anand Karaj. Sure, it's throwing the kaka out with the bathwater, but then we'd see how many are truly serious about Sikhi. It'd punish those who have an affinity for Sikhi who aren't Gursikh (amongst other knock-on issues), but at least we wouldn't be open to accusations of double standards or racism, etc.

Maybe, but that might generate an even worse problem. If it becomes mandatory for budding couples to have received Pahul, is it possible that non-Sikhs might take Amrit so that they can then marry a Sikh? How will these infiltrators be weeded out? A test? We will just run into the same problem all over again. Perhaps we should just make the whole thing so protracted and complicated for those not of our people that the non-Sikh decides they would rather bail and give up than continue with the marriage, lol.

Perhaps applicants should be asked to demonstrate their loyalty to the Sikh faith by undertaking some task on its behalf. However, I can't for the life of me think of any decent ones which don't involve breaking at least one law.

[MisterrSingh]

Maybe, but that might generate an even worse problem. If it becomes mandatory for budding couples to have received Pahul, is it possible that non-Sikhs might take Amrit so that they can then marry a Sikh? How will these infiltrators be weeded out? A test? We will just run into the same problem all over again. Perhaps we should just make the whole thing so protracted and complicated for those not of our people that the non-Sikh decides they would rather bail and give up than continue with the marriage, lol.

From a certain date onwards anyone who takes Amrit should have their picture taken on the day they took Pahul, and in the picture they should be holding that day's newspaper clearly showing that particular day's headline, you know, like those weight loss before and after pictures, lmao.

I actually wouldn't put it past some people to fake Gursikhi (externally at least) in order to bypass the requirement. But, knowing some Sikh females as we do (in terms of their motivations and how their brains work), I believe they want to look their Bollywood best for their photographs at the Gurdwara post-Anand Karaj, decked out in her red lengha, her head barely covered, her face made up with enough cosmetics to kill a small army of rabbits. Therefore, a genuine Gursikh bibi would be adorned in blue and will be wearing a dastaar, whilst the girl pretending to be Gursikh will baulk at the idea of that type of getup on her big day. It'll ruin her precious photos! She won't be able to go through with it!

I've given this too much thought.

Perhaps applicants should be asked to demonstrate their loyalty to the Sikh faith by undertaking some task on its behalf. However, I can't for the life of me think of any decent ones which don't involve breaking at least one law.

I can think of a few, but as you said, they're all illegal.

[Jonny101]

Increasingly I feel Guruka Singh has not been able to leave his hippy worldview of issues. Its obvious he has not been able to understand concept of rehit. He cherry picks what he likes and ridicules what doesn't fit into his hippy views. But its not surprising, we have already seen his organization have 5 individuals most of them being non Sikhs and they call that as "Punj pyaras"

[Ranjeet01]

From a certain date onwards anyone who takes Amrit should have their picture taken on the day they took Pahul, and in the picture they should be holding that day's newspaper clearly showing that particular day's headline, you know, like those weight loss before and after pictures, lmao.

I actually wouldn't put it past some people to fake Gursikhi (externally at least) in order to bypass the requirement. But, knowing some Sikh females as we do (in terms of their motivations and how their brains work), I believe they want to look their Bollywood best for their photographs at the Gurdwara post-Anand Karaj, decked out in her red lengha, her head barely covered, her face made up with enough cosmetics to kill a small army of rabbits. Therefore, a genuine Gursikh bibi would be adorned in blue and will be wearing a dastaar, whilst the girl pretending to be Gursikh will baulk at the idea of that type of getup on her big day. It'll ruin her precious photos! She won't be able to go through with it!

I've given this too much thought.

I can think of a few, but as you said, they're all illegal.

A lot of good points made,maybe the best solution would be to have only Amritdharis have Anand Karaj.

That way at least the Anand Karaj would mean something and maintain the substance rather than the show business it has become. The most that non-Amritdhari couples know is if someone pokes you in the back, you get up.

My observations from attending Anand Karaj's in Punjab is that the 15-20 people attend them (much smaller number than the UK) and people for the most part stick to the basics on Anand Karaj and do not bother with elaborate 2 and a half hours Anand Karaj's we have in the UK with the ragis and the boring speeches made. I have also seen Granthis specifically request in Punjab not to bother with the brothers taking the bride around during Lavaan. I have even heard of Anand Karaj's taking place during Amrit Vela time (if someone can confirm).

[Ranjeet01]

Increasingly I feel Guruka Singh has not been able to leave his hippy worldview of issues. Its obvious he has not been able to understand concept of rehit. He cherry picks what he likes and ridicules what doesn't fit into his hippy views. But its not surprising, we have already seen his organization have 5 individuals most of them being non Sikhs and they call that as "Punj pyaras"

Is he one of the 3HO Sikhs?

[StarStriker]

Whats disgraceful, is on facebook posts, hippy liberal lefty sikhs, have even made comments such as...."anand karaj for only sikhs? Wait wats next, anand karaj for only amritdharis?"

This is how stupid the ppl within our kaum are! They dont even know, that anand karaj's WERE ONLY FOR amritdharis originally.

[MisterrSingh]

My observations from attending Anand Karaj's in Punjab is that the 15-20 people attend them (much smaller number than the UK) and people for the most part stick to the basics on Anand Karaj and do not bother with elaborate 2 and a half hours Anand Karaj's we have in the UK with the ragis and the boring speeches made. I have also seen Granthis specifically request in Punjab not to bother with the brothers taking the bride around during Lavaan. I have even heard of Anand Karaj's taking place during Amrit Vela time (if someone can confirm).

There's a reason for that, bro. The men start drinking on the morning of the marriage and don't stop until late at night, lol.

Even back home, immediate family aside, people forgo attending the Anand Karaj and only turn up at the "palace." When I was a kid the Anand Karaj's that took place in the UK were packed out; everyone would attend no matter what, and there was also some semblance of propriety amongst even the drinkers, whereby it was understood there'd be no drinking until the party, no ifs no buts. Nowadays, the "janta" think the religious side of things are a joke, and hangovers, etc, are par for the course.

[JSinghnz]

Whats disgraceful, is on facebook posts, hippy liberal lefty sikhs, have even made comments such as...."anand karaj for only sikhs? Wait wats next, anand karaj for only amritdharis?"

This is how stupid the ppl within our kaum are! They dont even know, that anand karaj's WERE ONLY FOR amritdharis originally.

Anand Karaj has always been for SIKHS and never for Amritdharis "originally."