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Big_Tera

Kashmir - who does it belong to?

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If Hari Singh the princely ruler decided he wanted his kingdom to be part of India. 

Why should Pakistan claim it? As it was ceded to India in a proper and just way. 

 

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7 hours ago, Big_Tera said:

If Hari Singh the princely ruler decided he wanted his kingdom to be part of India. 

Why should Pakistan claim it? As it was ceded to India in a proper and just way. 

 

Great step taken by Modi to finally resolve the Kashmir issue by scrapping Article 370. Hope this brings peace to this area and ends the killing of so many innocent lives. Pakistan has to behave now and stop interfering and stop providing moral and military support to the terrorists.

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29 minutes ago, JSinghnz said:

Great step taken by Modi to finally resolve the Kashmir issue by scrapping Article 370. Hope this brings peace to this area and ends the killing of so many innocent lives. Pakistan has to behave now and stop interfering and stop providing moral and military support to the terrorists.

Its funny and highly ironic that some foolish apne support the terrorists. While Sikhs and Hindus are suffering due to the insurgency. 

Agreed on the article 370. This will hopefully allow more non muslims to move to Kashmir and buy up land ect.

As presently no one from outside kashmir can move there and buy property. Hope The kashmiri pandits can move back to their rightful home and land.  

Edited by Big_Tera
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21 hours ago, Big_Tera said:

If Hari Singh the princely ruler decided he wanted his kingdom to be part of India.

He didn't "decide" to. Maharaja Hari Singh was forced to, by circumstances/events out of his control. It was a case of "choosing between two evils" and he chose the lesser.

 

 

21 hours ago, Big_Tera said:

Why should Pakistan claim it? As it was ceded to India in a proper and just way.

 

It's not as simple as that. Ever since the first "Pakistan" plan came out in 1928 Kashmir was to be a part of Pakistan. They always saw it as such. But 20 years later, the british gave the Princely states the option to join either india or pakistan. Maharaja Hari Singh delayed his choice in the hope that he could sit it out. But it backfired. The stupid pakistanis invaded and once he saw that his forces could not hold off the invading force he sent for help from india. Nehru only sent help once the "instrument of accession" had been signed.

 

The pakistanis were devasted by this as they had always seen it as a natural part of Pakistan with it being a overwhelming muslim majority. Reverse the dynamics and see if you can understand what they feel.

After the 1948 war over Kashmir, the UN intervened to bring an agreement between both countries. Pakistan was to withdraw its forces to 1947 borders, and India was to hold a plebiscite for the future of Kashmir. Nehru knew that India would lose Kashmir if he undertook this exercise and as such did anything he could to undermine the UN plan.

Even if there was such a plebiscite today , we all know what the outcome would be. India, as a country would be better off releasing their hold on Kashmir. Bullets and death only last for so long.

Have a read of this if you have time:

http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/18477-five-villages-for-peace-and-prosperity/

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14 hours ago, JSinghnz said:

Great step taken by Modi to finally resolve the Kashmir issue by scrapping Article 370. Hope this brings peace to this area and ends the killing of so many innocent lives.

The killing of innocent lives is mainly done by the indian army against kashmiris. False encounters. Like what they did in Panjab. By scrapping 370, it will only harden the resolve of Kashmiris to end indian rule there. When resolves harden, violence goes up.

This will not finally resolve the Kashmir issue. They have been fighting for 70 years. That HAS to tell us all something.

 

 

14 hours ago, JSinghnz said:

Pakistan has to behave now and stop interfering and stop providing moral and military support to the terrorists.

 

The biggest moral and military support to terrorists comes from Indian govt, supporting their forces there. Not only there but in north-east india, where the indian army carried out mass rapes to demoralise the rebels there. What does killing civilians help with? How does raping thousands of women help the indian govt and India?

 

 

 

 

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This is a bad move by India and it will only cause more trouble. Extra army officers have been deployed in Kashmir with a complete block on communication for Kashmir so the outside world has no idea what happening in Kashmir. Does not sound right at all. With Modi in charge India is turning into another North Korea 

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From an Indian perspective,  it is a master stroke.

Their goal is to keep india intact.

By removing article 370, they can turn the state into a non-Muslim majority. 

Also note that Indian controlled Kashmir is three parts (Ladakh- mostly buddhist), Jammu - mostly Hindu and the Kashmir valley.

I think the Jammu and Ladakh people's are probably fed up of those valley folk hogging up all the benefits and political power and might be grateful for this.

If there is going to be insurgency (which is propped up by Pakistan) , it will be a short term hit for long term gain.

It's not as if Pakistan Occupied Kashmir hasn't been swamped with non locals eg in Gilgit and Baltistan. 

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Kashmir is a liability for India. Kashmir valley itself is a small part of the entire j&k state. Almost all the Kashmiri Muslims are concentrated there.  India would be better off separating Jammu from Kashmir and give Kashmir valley to Pakistan and keep Hindu Jammu and Buddhist Ladakh for it self.

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/2bQZXGzWiZnhe7E18

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For those short-sighted people  here

1. Kashmir jammu and ladakh  are all parts of the greater sikh lands so India haveno rights to claim them as an integral part of Hindia.

2. This bill was revoked without a vote which is illegal under the constitution

3. Centre will have direct control over the state , remember this is how they destroyed local poltical powerand voices

4. This also affects sikhs of those regions as we have already seen by the killing , rapes and illegal evictions by kashmiri pandits with army\police help

5. This is just a measure to set up the bloodbath and denial of citizenship of ordinary lawabiding muslims and sikhs

6.this sets an evil precedent which means we will see fascists throwing down all sorts of evil  laws at minorities to steal their livlihoods, homes and lands . They are already preparing to oust all sikhs from power positions in guruwara committee in India and abroad .

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What percentage of people from that region are sikhs?  I think around 2% probably? 

A lot of the sikhs and Hindus living in jammu are actual ethnic kashmiris from the valley.  People from jammu are not actual kashmiris. people from jammu are mainly dogras I think 

Most sikhs from that region are kashmiris from the valley but now live in jammu.  

 

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It's interesting what the Singh says at 5:33 

Either way these people are indigenous to the land and have every right to live in Kashmir.

Look at how sikhs were forced to leave everything behind in 1947 and migrate. Same thing is being done with these people. 

Edited by puzzled

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8 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

He didn't "decide" to. Maharaja Hari Singh was forced to, by circumstances/events out of his control. It was a case of "choosing between two evils" and he chose the lesser.

 

 

 

It's not as simple as that. Ever since the first "Pakistan" plan came out in 1928 Kashmir was to be a part of Pakistan. They always saw it as such. But 20 years later, the british gave the Princely states the option to join either india or pakistan. Maharaja Hari Singh delayed his choice in the hope that he could sit it out. But it backfired. The stupid pakistanis invaded and once he saw that his forces could not hold off the invading force he sent for help from india. Nehru only sent help once the "instrument of accession" had been signed.

 

The pakistanis were devasted by this as they had always seen it as a natural part of Pakistan with it being a overwhelming muslim majority. Reverse the dynamics and see if you can understand what they feel.

After the 1948 war over Kashmir, the UN intervened to bring an agreement between both countries. Pakistan was to withdraw its forces to 1947 borders, and India was to hold a plebiscite for the future of Kashmir. Nehru knew that India would lose Kashmir if he undertook this exercise and as such did anything he could to undermine the UN plan.

Even if there was such a plebiscite today , we all know what the outcome would be. India, as a country would be better off releasing their hold on Kashmir. Bullets and death only last for so long.

Have a read of this if you have time:

http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/18477-five-villages-for-peace-and-prosperity/

Whether he was in a predicament or not  He chose at the end of the day fairly and squarely. It was his choice. Yes the situation may not have been easy. But we have to respect what the Maharaja wanted. After all it was his kingdom. 

If he would have chosen pakistan. Would you still be moaning and groaning? 

Ideally agreed he would have like to been independent. 

P.s 

Pakistan took more land that was rightfully theirs. Now they want more. They should be happy they got any land at all. After what their mughal ancestors did to India. 

Kashmir is and integral part of India. They should all bugger off back to the middle east where they came from. 

As that is their muslim homeland. 

 

Edited by Big_Tera

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11 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

For those short-sighted people  here

1. Kashmir jammu and ladakh  are all parts of the greater sikh lands so India haveno rights to claim them as an integral part of Hindia.

2. This bill was revoked without a vote which is illegal under the constitution

3. Centre will have direct control over the state , remember this is how they destroyed local poltical powerand voices

4. This also affects sikhs of those regions as we have already seen by the killing , rapes and illegal evictions by kashmiri pandits with army\police help

5. This is just a measure to set up the bloodbath and denial of citizenship of ordinary lawabiding muslims and sikhs

6.this sets an evil precedent which means we will see fascists throwing down all sorts of evil  laws at minorities to steal their livlihoods, homes and lands . They are already preparing to oust all sikhs from power positions in guruwara committee in India and abroad .

Good joke of a post. Where are the greater Sikhs land to which India can return Kashmir Jammu and Ladakh to?

Go back to school and find out that the Sikh lands were conquered way back by the pommies.

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17 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

The killing of innocent lives is mainly done by the indian army against kashmiris. False encounters. Like what they did in Panjab. By scrapping 370, it will only harden the resolve of Kashmiris to end indian rule there. When resolves harden, violence goes up.

This will not finally resolve the Kashmir issue. They have been fighting for 70 years. That HAS to tell us all something.

 

 

 

The biggest moral and military support to terrorists comes from Indian govt, supporting their forces there. Not only there but in north-east india, where the indian army carried out mass rapes to demoralise the rebels there. What does killing civilians help with? How does raping thousands of women help the indian govt and India?

 

 

 

 

They were not fighting for 70 years. They only started fighting when Pakistan started meddling in  there to revenge the making of Bangladesh.

Hope there is everlasting peace now.

 

 

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Regardless whether we support or not support, here's the image that speaks volume. 

 

map.jpeg

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