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kidsama

Don't call yourself a Sikh if you eat meat.

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8 hours ago, kidsama said:

There are many reasons to NOT eat meat but I will list the most important one; because our gurus said so, and it's in SGGS, over and over again. "Sikhs" who say it's okay to eat meat, even the ones keeping dari kesh, are ones who don't even read SGGS.

Sir, I'm afraid your assertions are incorrect. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj does not comment on such matters. These things are covered by Rehit Maryada. It seems, in fact, that you have not read Gurbani. You've misinterpreted these pangtis in such a way where you have completely missed the point lol. It is not even talking about diet but of course, anything to push an agenda and one that's been beaten to death - and - failed every time.

ਤੁਮ ਕੌਣ ਹੋ ਯਹ ਬਤਾਨੇ ਕੇ ਲੀਏ ਕੇ ਮੈਂ ਕ੍ਯਾ ਹੂੰ ਯਹ ਕ੍ਯਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੂੰ? ਐਸਾ ਲਗਤਾ ਹੈ ਕ੍ਯਾ ਤੂ ਖੁਦ ਗੁਰੂਵਾਣੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੜਤਾ

 ਚੁਪਚਾਪ ਬੈਠ ਔਰ ਸ੍ਰਵਣ ਕਰ ਛੋਰਾ.... ਯਾਦ ਰੱਖੀ..ਤੂ ਕਿਸੇ ਦਾ ਅਫਸਰ ਨੀ 🙄.....

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“Living by neglect and greed, the world eats dead carcasses. Like a goblin or a beast, they kill and eat the forbidden carcasses of meat. Control your urges, or else you will be thrown into the tortures of hell.” (Guru Arjan Dev, Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 723).

First of all the Uthanka or historical context of the shabad - this shabad is in Raag Tilang which is a Raag often used when a Muslim is being addressed, which is the case here; one will notice the heavy use of Farsi and Arabic:

Sangat from Kabul were on their way to take gifts for Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji and to have their darshan.

Along the route there was a river once they reached Attock. They came across a man named Aalam who was a boatman. The Sangat approached him and told him they're on the way to see Guru Sahib and that they need him to get them across the river. Aalam said "give me the valuable things you're taking for Guru Sahib and I'll get you across". The Sangat replied "we will not give you anything out of these gifts but whatever your fees are, we are happy to pay". Aalam refused their offer and refused to take them across, and then left to walk back to his house. The Sangat decided to sit down and do Kirtan.

On his way home walking, Aalam began to lose his vision and everything started to go black. At this point he panicked and turned back towards the Sangat. With his hands folded he asked for forgiveness and admitted he had made a big mistake. The Sangat said "we are not the ones who can redeem you, the only bakshanhaar is Guru Sahib!". After doing a benti his vision began to return and he lovingly took the Sangat across the river. He accompanied the Sangat to Amritsar to see Guru Sahib. In order to keep Aalam's hankaar - ego at bay Maharaaj Ji did ucharan of a shabad (which you have pasted terribly out of context):

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਖਾਕ ਨੂਰ ਕਰਦੰ ਆਲਮ ਦੁਨੀਆਇ ॥ ਅਸਮਾਨ ਜਿਮੀ ਦਰਖਤ ਆਬ ਪੈਦਾਇਸਿ ਖੁਦਾਇ ॥੧॥
The Lord infused His Light into the dust, and created the world, the universe. The sky, the earth, the trees, and the water - all are the Creation of the Lord. ||1||

Here Guru Sahib is saying: O Aalam! Akaal Purkh has created this whole universe through his noor/jyot/light and power of Maya, through the five elements.

ਬੰਦੇ ਚਸਮ ਦੀਦੰ ਫਨਾਇ ॥ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਮੁਰਦਾਰ ਖੁਰਦਨੀ ਗਾਫਲ ਹਵਾਇ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
O human being, whatever you can see with your eyes, shall perish. The world eats dead carcasses, living by neglect and greed. ||Pause||

Here Guru Sahib is saying: O man, Aalam! Whatever you can see with your eyes will perish. The world, by speaking and living in falsehood is consuming unpure things i.e. they're metaphorically eating carcasses, carrion - rubbish which certain animals eat. Their greed and desire is making them careless and ignorant - they have a lack of sentience.

ਗੈਬਾਨ ਹੈਵਾਨ ਹਰਾਮ ਕੁਸਤਨੀ ਮੁਰਦਾਰ ਬਖੋਰਾਇ ॥
Like a goblin, or a beast, they kill and eat the forbidden carcasses of meat.

Here Guru Sahib is saying: [taking the above into account] humans have become like unseen beings such as ghosts, and like animals; they have begun to metaphorically kill and eat living beings. They're consuming forbidden things - thing which are haraam because of their ego, desire, greed etc.

ਦਿਲ ਕਬਜ ਕਬਜਾ ਕਾਦਰੋ ਦੋਜਕ ਸਜਾਇ ॥੨॥
So control your urges, or else you will be seized by the Lord, and thrown into the tortures of hell. ||2||

Here Guru Sahib is saying: The heart, the soul has been seized by Maya (the greed, desire, lust etc) and it is keeping the heart away from the all powerful Akaal Purkh. Because of which one will have to reap their punishment in hell.

 

Now read the whole (there's more pangtis) shabad with the Uthanka in mind. Posting one pangti out of context is ridiculous.

Gurbar Akaal!

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15 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

ਤੁਮ ਕੌਣ ਹੋ ਯਹ ਬਤਾਨੇ ਕੇ ਲੀਏ ਕੇ ਮੈਂ ਕ੍ਯਾ ਹੂੰ ਯਹ ਕ੍ਯਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੂੰ? ਐਸਾ ਲਗਤਾ ਹੈ ਕ੍ਯਾ ਤੂ ਖੁਦ ਗੁਰੂਵਾਣੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੜਤਾ

 ਚੁਪਚਾਪ ਬੈਠ ਔਰ ਸ੍ਰਵਣ ਕਰ ਛੋਰਾ.... ਯਾਦ ਰੱਖੀ..ਤੂ ਕਿਸੇ ਦਾ ਅਫਸਰ ਨੀ 🙄.....

 
 
 

I dunno if you are writing Hindi in Gurmukhi for jokes, but lol

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They eat flesh of all  dead animals because they are walking, talking, blood -sucking, egoistic, greedy evil vampires of the kalyuga. They have no interest in Sikhi or the Sikh Gurus. They are all totally loopy and a danger to us genuine Sikhs! We love everything about Sikhi and no one dare ape us! We are the true Sikhs!

The present day rakshash/vampires are full of poisonous vibes with god given gift to bad mouth everyone/anyone unfortunate enough to cross their path!  Sikhi teaches love, forgiveness and compassion. We mustn’t hate anyone. We must love everyone.

I have come across numerous goofy Sikhs who misinterpret the Gurbani to justify their huge appetites for flesh, alcohol, tobacco and lust. I am still not over the shock I feel towards their ignorance and lack of respect/regard towards Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji! Shame on them! They are all going to be punished in hell.

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1 hour ago, CHaamCHrick said:

They eat flesh of all  dead animals because they are walking, talking, blood -sucking, egoistic, greedy evil vampires of the kalyuga. They have no interest in Sikhi or the Sikh Gurus. They are all totally loopy and a danger to us genuine Sikhs! We love everything about Sikhi and no one dare ape us! We are the true Sikhs!

The present day rakshash/vampires are full of poisonous vibes with god given gift to bad mouth everyone/anyone unfortunate enough to cross their path!  Sikhi teaches love, forgiveness and compassion. We mustn’t hate anyone. We must love everyone.

I have come across numerous goofy Sikhs who misinterpret the Gurbani to justify their huge appetites for flesh, alcohol, tobacco and lust. I am still not over the shock I feel towards their ignorance and lack of respect/regard towards Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji! Shame on them! They are all going to be punished in hell.

Fully support your feeling good about your vegetarianism. Always be careful condemning a group to hell...not sure whos in it...could be a Saint...could be someone Greater. 

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On 11/29/2019 at 7:36 PM, kidsama said:

Sikhi nowadays has just become an identity for most people. They feel proud they are sikh, which is good, but that's really where their sikhi ends. They drink alcohol, eat meat, practice in lust, and still call themselves a sikh. You maybe a "sikh" but not a sikh of the gurus. 

There are many reasons to NOT eat meat but I will list the most important one; because our gurus said so, and it's in SGGS, over and over again. "Sikhs" who say it's okay to eat meat, even the ones keeping dari kesh, are ones who don't even read SGGS.

“You keep your fasts to please Allah, while you murder other beings for pleasure. You look after your own interests, and so not see the interests of others. What good is your word? O Qazi, the One Lord is within you, but you do not think or contemplation on Him. You do not care for others, you are mad about religion, this is why your life is wasting away.” (Kabir, Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 483) 

That's what sikhi is becoming today. People are focused on the religion side than the spiritual side, what really matters.. Katha people, instead of doing actual katha are saying stuff like,  "ladies should do kirtan in Harmandir Sahib" or "Stop using milk to clean the gold in Harmandir Sahib and use chemical sprays." And people listen to these guys, cuz they seem to be "modern" and just add on to their ego. I am straying a bit off topic, but this is important, we must not forget our roots. We are sikhs. And a sikh simply does what the guru says. Don't listen to these manmukhs. Read Gurbani yourself.

“Living by neglect and greed, the world eats dead carcasses. Like a goblin or a beast, they kill and eat the forbidden carcasses of meat. Control your urges, or else you will be thrown into the tortures of hell.” (Guru Arjan Dev, Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 723).

You're right. 

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On 11/29/2019 at 7:45 PM, MrDoaba said:

Sir, I'm afraid your assertions are incorrect. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj does not comment on such matters. These things are covered by Rehit Maryada. It seems, in fact, that you have not read Gurbani. You've misinterpreted these pangtis in such a way where you have completely missed the point lol. It is not even talking about diet but of course, anything to push an agenda and one that's been beaten to death - and - failed every time.

ਤੁਮ ਕੌਣ ਹੋ ਯਹ ਬਤਾਨੇ ਕੇ ਲੀਏ ਕੇ ਮੈਂ ਕ੍ਯਾ ਹੂੰ ਯਹ ਕ੍ਯਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੂੰ? ਐਸਾ ਲਗਤਾ ਹੈ ਕ੍ਯਾ ਤੂ ਖੁਦ ਗੁਰੂਵਾਣੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੜਤਾ

 ਚੁਪਚਾਪ ਬੈਠ ਔਰ ਸ੍ਰਵਣ ਕਰ ਛੋਰਾ.... ਯਾਦ ਰੱਖੀ..ਤੂ ਕਿਸੇ ਦਾ ਅਫਸਰ ਨੀ 🙄.....

brother, you have proven my point that people are attached to the Identity of being a "sikh" rather than actually practicing it. And brother, you are also wrong about SGGS not talking about such topics. Gurbani talks about lust, meat, etc many times: 

“To take what rightfully belongs to another, is like a Muslim eating pork, or a Hindu eating beef. Our Guru, our Spiritual Guide, stands by us if we do not eat those carcasses. By mere talk, people do not earn Liberation. Salvation only comes from the practice of truth. By adding spices to forbidden foods, they are not made acceptable. O Nanak, from false talk, only falsehood is obtained”. (Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 141)

And this is just from SGGS. Also, not to mention the karmic effects of eating meat. A normal meat eater eats 7000 animals in his lifetime. IF you think this has no consequence you are stupid. Also not to mention the effect of meat and such food on your own mind, body and soul. How are you supposed to battle Kaam, Krodh, if you can't even control your tongue? 

“Kabeer says, the dinner of beans and rice is excellent when flavored with salt. Who would cut throats to have meat with his bread?” (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 1374)

I could go on brother.. Please think about this. 

“Do not cause pain to any creature, Go back to your Home with honour.” (Sri Guru Granth Sahib, pg 322)

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I don't know why you are beating a dead horse. The maas argument has been argued since olden times, just re-using arguments that have been used for ages. Who are you trying to change? Focus on your own kamai and jeevan.

PS: I am a vegetarian myself.

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On 11/29/2019 at 11:36 AM, kidsama said:

Sikhi nowadays has just become an identity for most people. They feel proud they are sikh, which is good, but that's really where their sikhi ends. They drink alcohol, eat meat, practice in lust, and still call themselves a sikh. You maybe a "sikh" but not a sikh of the gurus. 

There are many reasons to NOT eat meat but I will list the most important one; because our gurus said so, and it's in SGGS, over and over again. "Sikhs" who say it's okay to eat meat, even the ones keeping dari kesh, are ones who don't even read SGGS.

“You keep your fasts to please Allah, while you murder other beings for pleasure. You look after your own interests, and so not see the interests of others. What good is your word? O Qazi, the One Lord is within you, but you do not think or contemplation on Him. You do not care for others, you are mad about religion, this is why your life is wasting away.” (Kabir, Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 483) 

That's what sikhi is becoming today. People are focused on the religion side than the spiritual side, what really matters.. Katha people, instead of doing actual katha are saying stuff like,  "ladies should do kirtan in Harmandir Sahib" or "Stop using milk to clean the gold in Harmandir Sahib and use chemical sprays." And people listen to these guys, cuz they seem to be "modern" and just add on to their ego. I am straying a bit off topic, but this is important, we must not forget our roots. We are sikhs. And a sikh simply does what the guru says. Don't listen to these manmukhs. Read Gurbani yourself.

“Living by neglect and greed, the world eats dead carcasses. Like a goblin or a beast, they kill and eat the forbidden carcasses of meat. Control your urges, or else you will be thrown into the tortures of hell.” (Guru Arjan Dev, Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 723).

You should read prof. Sahib Singh teeka. Don't rely on English translation of Gurbani.   They mislead the reader.  Muslims say certain things are haram/forbidden to eat according to Islam Law.  Yet the real thing that is forbidden,  greed.  Is being eaten by the world and they due this by forgetting the whole world is perishable. 

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The current groups that are promoting meat, like nihang Singhs have no right eating animals.  They have become greedy and ritualistic like anointing weapons with goats blood after killing the innocent animal. Weapons were given to the Khalsa for defense of the poor, weak, and innocent and not because the weapons NEED blood.  These rituals are no different than throwing water at the sun hoping your dead ancestors would receive it.  Same goes for the Sikhs that eat meat from anywhere and think its permissible.   If you want to say meat is formed from water just like vegetables.   Than your dead relative should not be cremated or buried.   His flesh is no different than an animal.  The soul has left the body and the body is only flesh. Extreme example??? No at all.  You think its extreme because you are emotionally attached to the dead relative.   Even though hes dead, you still will not let anyone harm the carcass.   You see the good the carcass did when God had kept the carcass alive.  It served a purpose that you valued.  That same life exists in the animal you have killed for food.  But you don't value that life for the same reason you will not hesitate to take from someone you don't know or care about. 

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21 hours ago, kidsama said:

brother, you have proven my point that people are attached to the Identity of being a "sikh" rather than actually practicing it. And brother, you are also wrong about SGGS not talking about such topics. Gurbani talks about lust, meat, etc many times:

I think you have proven your own point, because you seem to think diet maketh the Sikh. Your Sikhi Jeevan seems to consist of what is on others plates. You have no idea how anyone practises Sikhi or not. All you've done is make another garbage post and ignored what I shared with you.

First of all you can't even be bothered to post the Gurmukhi, the actual Gurbani. Relying on translations is a folly; it's clear from your interpretations you have no idea what the pangtis are talking about. It's laughable. Second of all, even from the crappy English translations one can tell they're not talking about diet lmao - from which I can deduce even your Angrezi needs work.

21 hours ago, kidsama said:

And this is just from SGGS. Also, not to mention the karmic effects of eating meat. A normal meat eater eats 7000 animals in his lifetime. IF you think this has no consequence you are stupid. Also not to mention the effect of meat and such food on your own mind, body and soul. How are you supposed to battle Kaam, Krodh, if you can't even control your tongue? 

Oh nice, in one line "brother" the next "stupid". ਬੜਾ ਚੰਗਾ ਭਾਈ ਨਿਕਲਿਆ ਤੂੰ 🤨😞

What concern of yours is mine or anyone else's karma? Are you an Evangelical Christian who wants to save the Sangatan?

If you're such an ucha sucha vegetarian I assume you adhere to a Sattvik diet??? I'm sure you only eat pure veg which is unflavoured and the simplest of the simple. If not then how do you battle kaam and krodh? Majority of your shakahaari bros eat whatever the hell they eat for taste too so tu es gal te boht fail ho gaya. #VegiFail

ਸਿਰ ਜਾਵੇ ਤਾ ਜਾਵੇ, ਮੇਰਾ ਪਨੀਰ ਪਕੌੜਾ ਨਾ ਜਾਵੇ 🙏

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I could go on brother.. Please think about this. 

ਬੱਡਾ ਆਇਆ....ਬੋਲੀ ਜਾ ਜੋ ਬੋਲਣਾ ਆਹ...ਕਮਲ ਕੁੱਟੀ ਜਾ. ਮੇਰਾ ਖੇੜਾ ਛੱਡ

 

ਦੂਜਿਆਂ ਦੇ ਲਈ ਇਕ ਚੇਤਾਵਨੀ: ਬਾਕੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਗੱਲ ਛੱਡੋ ਆਪ ਨਾ ਜਹੰਨਮ ਵਿਚ ਡੁੱਬ ਜਾਇਓ 👺

 

Bhul Chuk Maaf
Gurbar Akaal!

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Eating veg be won't make you a saint. You may eat veg. But how did that veg come about. Through the blood and sweat of some orphan in a third world country? 

Then you think you can lecture meat eaters?

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Unfortunately they have a lot of enemies and chances are you could end up dead as a result of getting involved with them. An example is a good friend of mine who happened to be a Surrey guy and was the first fully patched HA member.  Suminder Grewal. (https://vancouversun.com/news/crime/notorious-biker-gang-opens-new-hells-angels-chapter-in-lower-mainland) Unfortunatly only two years after being patched in he was killed in broad daylight last year at Starbucks while sitting in his Dodge Viper in the drive through. The murder was connected to local Chinese who hired some out of town kids to do the job for them (https://vancouversun.com/news/crime/suspects-named-in-south-surrey-homicide-of-hells-angel) the kids are in custody now after being caught and charged for this murder. The Chinese were very threatened by the fact a Punjabi was doing business with HA and got patched in as a member (HA would never patch in a Chinese member. They get along with us much better and understand our culture) and really could not stomach the fact they were losing power in the lower mainland due to this. After that Vancouver Sun article went out, Suminder had a target on his back. Suminder had began to make an effort to make peace between the Brothers Keepers and the HA (prior to Suminder, they did not get along or speak at all). Also tried to set them up as "runners" for their product because he had access to better cheaper product from the HA lines and they had a large clientele base in Surrey. Things were looking good for both sides at one point. No more beef between Brothers Keepers and HA, and Suminder could move the HA product at a faster rate. Prior to Suminder the Brothers Keepers had to smuggle over the border via their trucking businesses (many BK are involved in trucking industry and have family members making trips across the border frequently anyway) or deal with Chinese who also smuggle product over. By killing Suminder, Brothers Keepers only link to the HA was severed. They now have to resort to getting product from Chinese who are also smuggling and paying a premium again or smuggle themselves and sell what they can to Chinese gangs. Chinese gangs are using most of these low level Punjabi Crews in Surrey as pawns to be honest. I wouldnt trust them one bit. Chinese would never bring a Punjabi into their crew, only do business thats it. They don't work together because they like each other, they work together because they have no choice.  Also most of these guys who try to smuggle across the border get caught at one point or another and its much much higher risk than dealing with HA.  So this is where we are today. Suminder dead, BK and HA not speaking again. BK is falling apart... many of their leaders have already been killed off due to their own internal fighting and nonsense. Like I was saying earlier, these younger guys from Surrey wont last in the game and they are usually the ones who are dying because of the lack of organization and connections.  Suminder getting killed was a big deal, a full patch HA has not been killed in BC like this ever. Someone was sending a message. Bottom line from what I have learned it is best to stay as legitimate as possible and not involve yourself or family in these things. The drug game is brutal. There are so many variables that could have massive repercussions on you and your family. I know so many who have died over the past 20 years, its really sickening to think about.    Suminders Funeral took place at Riverside Funeral home ( a place ran by Punjabis, where my grandfather had his service and many other of my family members)... It was a large funeral with many HA present.  https://vancouversun.com/news/crime/hells-angels-pay-respects-to-slain-biker-suminder-grewal    Brothers keepers founder Gavin Grewal killed:  https://www.abbynews.com/news/man-killed-in-north-vancouver-had-strong-links-to-abbotsford-gang-activity/ https://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/real-scoop-guilty-pleas-in-brothers-keepers-gang-attack#:~:text=Two days after Brothers Keepers,to battle on Vancouver streets.&text=The attack was part of,to be an inside job. Shortly after he was killed his brother was also killed: https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/murder-victim-brother-of-gang-boss-slain-last-december Example of low level Punjabi gangs going to Mexico to cut deals behind California Mexican Cartels back: https://vancouversun.com/news/crime/former-vancouver-gangster-murdered-in-mexico-after-brothers-killed-in-b-c https://vancouversun.com/news/crime/another-b-c-gangster-shot-to-death-in-mexico Hells Angels control the ports: https://nationalpost.com/news/metro-vancouver-docks-special-investigation-768024 http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Crime+Waterfront+When+Hells+Angel+nominates+another+Hells+Angel/11050005/story.html https://www.vice.com/en/article/bn3vnq/how-the-hells-angels-conquered-canada  
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