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This much debate over a Christmas tree?! Jesus!! (pun intended) In the last week with Maharaj's kirpa i got to spend a few days in the company of a true Brahmgiani. One Gursikh who we visited had a Christmas tree in his living room, they asked laughingly what it is and a sevadaar explained the story about St.Nicholas and how he did seva of giving presents to the poor children as well as how its linked to Jesus' birthday. They also said that its just something people do here. Brahmgiani Ji just nodded and said "teek a". :D I'll should also mention it wasnt the only Gursikh household which had a tree. People seriously need to chill out. Next you'll be saying Christmas trees are an RSS conspiracy.

Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji ki Fateh Sangat ji, you may not have heard of "Everythings 13" a sikh educational charity, however some of you may know about our YouTube channel "Basics of Sikhi". Most of you may not be aware that (with Guruji's kirpa and aagiaa) we're embarking on a new and comprehensive project to spread Guruji wisdom across the UK and Globally. Its called Plan BE13. Here is what our channel has on it currently.. Here is a video about Plan BE13 for 2013 Essentially we are hoping to do a 5 stage process of Parchar (1) Getting people into Sikhi (already happening) - Talks at Gurdwaras and Sikh Societies at colleges and Universities to interest youth/others into Sikhi and bring onto youtube channel - Spreading word about the Youtube Channel using facebook, twitter and and getting people into watching videos about Sikhi when they have spare time (there are around 80 videos on our youtube channel already) (2) Building a solid foundation (already happening) - holding a One Day Course +Kirtan Katha called "Re-Assessing the Fundamentals - Vaheguru, Guru and You" at various Gurdwaras (first one is due at Park Avenue Gurdwara Main Hall on the 29th December 2012) - 12 topic introductory course to Sikhi - called the WhyGuru Course. This course goes through the history of Sikhi from Guru Nanak to the present day and also has 4 separate topics which cover Guru Granth Sahib ji, The Khalsa, Raag Kirtan and Sikh Spiritual concepts of merging with the Divine. We already delivered this once in May this year and it was a success. (there is a video about this on our channel with video testimonials - we had 5 non-punjabi people attend. One lady, ex-muslim convert has now taken Amrit). (3) Learning Basics of Gurmukhi (planning done, needs filming) - A series of videos that goes into Why its important we learn Gurmukhi and How does Gurmukhi work? (Penti Akhar, Moharni) - Series of common vocabulary in Gurmukhi and how the words are put together - Basics of Santhiya - Slow paat, in video format with downloadable MP3s (4) Japji Sahib Vichaar classes (already happening) - We're doing weekly English katha of Japji Sahib and with Guru's kirpa are at the 34th Pauri. - Katha will be transcripted and put into an ebook format - Set up Japji Sahib Vichaar classes at variour gurdwaras where attendees would learn in their own time (watch the video, read ebook, watch/listen to other recommended katha (English by Bhai Sukhraj Singh, Punjabi- Maskeen ji, Giani Pinderpal Singh etc) and then come together for the vichaar class at their local gurdwara (ie build a sadhsangat) to discuss Japji sahib, pauri by Pauri. (5) Further Study (to be developed as part of Plan BE13) - More Gurbani Katha - planning on Rehras sahib and Asa Di Vaar - Basics of Kirtan and Tabla - Attend an intermediate level - "WhyKhalsa WhyFateh Course" In terms of funding, our parent we've raised about £18k of our £52k target for 2013 already. 99% of this has come from the sangat, (mostly youth and non-amritdhari). We're not charging anything for katha or the courses, as we see this as Spiritual Langar (Bhugat Giaan) which should be given freely and be dependent purely on Sangat kirpa (daeaa bhandarani). Read more about the specifics of Plan BE13 here: http://www.virginmoneygiving/charities/everythings13 Please do ardaas for us to Satguru that we stay on this path and stay true to Sikhi. Thanks for reading ji, bhul chuk maaf Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji ki Fateh

This is beautiful. What a great concept and nothing but respect for taking up the sewa! 100% support!

Dearest _Kaur_ Jee, First of all as I type this, in my heart I do an ardas for you and your family and children, that God will provide you with everything you need and open new doors for you and bless you with financial prosperity. This is my ardas and may it be answered according to God's Divine Pleasure and Will for your family. I hope others reading this too will include bhenjee _Kaur_ in their nijee(private)ardas. Second, dearest sister, the best way for God to look after you and your family and provide for you is to really focus on having a very true and deep relationship with Gurujee and God. I come from a poor family where we were very poor and my sisters could not get married. However as a teenager, I turned to Sikhism, God, and Gurujee, took Amrit, started learning kirtan and how to read SGGS, and I started making everybody in my family sit with me and do evening Rehraas and kirtan and ardas. So our house became a house where every evening there were prayers. My mother would make parshad too. I would also wake up extremely early and do nitnem, simran and ardas. Gurujee blessed our family and our financial problems all got sorted and my sisters all got married! So I have posted shabads for confidence building further up in an earlier post you can use immediately but for the long term, let you big concern shift from money worries to ensuring all of your family is travelling on the path of true deep Sikhism. Get very involved in going to Gurdwara and satsang and if you are not baptised, think of getting Amrit. Get your children involved in, learning punjabee, gurbanee and kirtan etc. Make sure you have translations of Shree Guru Granth Sahib in your house and plenty of books on Sikhism. If you dont and cant afford, pm me privately and I will het these posted to you asap. If you wake up every morning amritvela and do simran and nitnem and ardas, there is no way God will desert and abandon you. Once a lady came crying to me that her son had failed his final medical MBBS exams. I told her to come with her husband to my house every morning at 4 am and we would do Sukhmani Sahib together and then simran and ardas. Her son then passed his exams and is now a doctor. Another lady told me her husband and mother in law had thrown her out to divorce her because she could not get pregnant. I told her to get up and do simran every morning for two hours 4a.m to 6a.m everyday at least for 40 days. On the 40th day. her husband and mother in law came and begged forgiveness and took her back home! 3 months later I met her at a Gurdwara where my jetha was doing kirtan and she was pregnant! I could keep typing such true stories all night on my computer for you, but you get the point. Also, you are on the right website because there are many blessed Sikhs here all very willing to help you out. I run businesses through God's grace so I could help you out in financial planning but I need more details. Sometimes what we want is right under our nose but we cannot see it. Money is a flow because it comes and goes. You have to work out that how it can come, where it is hiding, but you also need to work out where it is going so you can drag it out more. If you are in the UK as you said in London, you should talk to an accountant by paying him a small sum of money for advice. He could look at your monthly income statements of wife and husband, and the ages of your children etc and advice you of any benefits you are entitled to. You may also need to look at your education levels because you could invest(painfully) in some further education courses that will provide you better income in the future. You havent stated much so its hard to pinpoint where you can progress. Given more information me and others on this site who have experience in household matters could give you more specific advice. There may be talents you may have by which you could even start some part time business. You also need to look at your mortgage ,weekly shopping, rent and other bills and expenditure from different angles. The western diet and food shopping pattern is far higher than that of traditional Sikh diet. My parents had 8 children making it a total of 10 persons. But every morning my mother boiled and made tea with parathas from cheap atta which you buy in a big sack together with homemade achar and yoghurt and ghee. Likewise afternoon rice and dhall with some vegetables and evening stuff like chapattis with a dall and sabzee. You could even utilise your garden no matter how big or small it is to grow your own veg. This year I grew my own potatoes, sarson, tomatoes, chilies, spinach, methi, fruits like raspberries, strawberries, blk currants etc, carrots, coriander, basil, in my garden. Right now I have sweet little berry like chilean guava fruits ripening in this winter time. So we need to be creative and imaginative and think out of the box and arrange and rearrange how we do things, how we construct our household structure and God will help us. I could go on all day and night giving you many examples but thats enough for now and will be great to hear back from you and may this discussion continue for your benefit. There is no shortage in the house of Guru Nanak Dev Maharaj!

bro, wouldnt it be better to inform yourslef about this debate, or if as you say you do know very little, then why post negative comments?

to me thats all this debate is.

deck the halls with bells of holly foll a la la la la la Tiz the season to be jolly foll la la la la la la Sikh Sangat has gone crazy foll la la la la la Lets see if we can get the post closed foll HA HA HA HAHA HA............................. HA! :giggle: Happy Holidays :biggrin2:

Congratulations to sikh sangat.The news is that sikh youth has won elections of Surrey,BC Guru ghar.They trounced moderate slate by about 6000 votes.

I am not sure how having christmas tree denotes idol worshiping... I don't have christmas tree on premises a) i don't celebrate christmas as christmas tree is associated or have connotation with christian/catholic/paganism ideology b) Our Sikh dharam have quite bit of enrich history/memorable dates throught out the whole year i don't have time let alone desire to indulge - getting out of my way and getting a Christmas tree. These premises above should be more than enough to have a discussion surrounding not having christmas tree, equating christmas tree as idol worship appears desperate move from the other side not to mention this thought itself seems cheap, blown out of proportion and clearly out of depth. Few points to ponder regarding idol worship and christmas tree. 1. Johnny101 veer did good job filling in the blanks in the previous page, but with that being said a) we are still comparing oranges(christmas tree)/pagan symbolism and apples(shiv morti) here..lets compare apples(jesus statue) and apples (shiv morti) b) Even if we compare oranges with oranges (christmas tree vs hindu symbolism say- navaratee etc), it still does not associate with idol worship or constitute as idol worship. As clearly -having picture/idol/symbolism/iconography does not *automatically* constitutes as idol worship, what constitutes as idol worship is not the picture/idol/symbolism/iconography but rather one's perception surrounding these picture/idol/symbolism/icongraphy.. Whats the difference between idol and picture- clearly nothing..its same thing..what difference is your perception surrounding both..!! 2. I repeat again, as this is very important to people to understand- having pictures be it guru's pictures/shaheed singhs/sants/mahapursh pictures/inter faith cultural religious pictures/ancient indic pictures/idol such as - budda for example/laughling chinese budda/home decor stuff etc/artistic icongraphy does not automatically constitutes as idol worship, its the one's perception surrounding the above which decides if one is committing idol worshiping or not. 3. I tried my best with maharaj kirpa to discuss this whole hyper paranoia and knee j erk reaction mindset on the other thread regarding having committing idol worshipping with having guru's picture itself on forum, on top: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/69491-picture/?p=562197 , take a look when you guys get a chance.

Kindly Listen to this amazing Soothing Kirtan Album https://www.youtube.com/user/nirmalsinghpipliwale?feature=watch

I'm not going to beat a dead horse, but you made two new points that I didn't see earlier. First NEW point: "my kids are just having fun and i don't want to spoil their fun." You spoke like many parents would react, thinking they are doing the best for their kids. However we can look at the lives of Gursikhs in the 80's to the lives of the sons of Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. Gursikhs kids and Guru Sahibs kids grew up in a environment where other religions festivals where up and going in full swing and obviously their kids were well aware of these festivals. However none of their kids participated in holi. Throwing colors on each other.........there is no greater fun for a kid. But Satguru didn't allow this practice and instead told his Sikhs along with his sons to participate in a Sikh event. Was this bad parenting on Satguru's part? Never, this was the best parenting in all of creation. There are other examples, but the one example presented delivers the message home very clearly. Second NEW point: about other religious people come to celebrate with Sikhs in Sikh celebrations. Simple, that is there choice and if their religion tells them not to, then they should follow their religion. Sikhs don't make a person bow before Guru Sahib. If they don't want to bow and just want to sit and listen, then go right ahead. For Sikhs they can't participate in any type of idol worship. Whether you want to recognize it or not, you among others like Hazoor are willfully blind. You're ignoring the facts, which Gurbani lays out and then are intentionally not wanting to know what a Christmas tree at this time of the year represents. Solutions to first new point: Instead of decorating a tree, get a small palki made which your kids can deocrate and then place shastar on this palki. Then sing Shastar Naammala and other Banis from Dasam Bani. Your kids will not feel left out and they will learn about Sikhi. Incoporate into this how the two older sons of Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj used shastars to fight for what is righteous. This will paint a picture for your kids and they will develop a new yearning to learn how to use shastars.

Confidence building shabads should be read together with their meanings for the best effect. They are such as '' ja too mere val heh'', ''jis sa sahib dada hoe'', ''nal narayan mere'', ''mera pyara pritam satgur rekhwala'', ''rakho rakha apnee kirpa dhar'' , ''aab hum chlee thakur peh haar'', ''mohe na bisaroh meh janh tera'', ''tum sarnaee aaya thakur'', '' moko taar leh rama taar leh''. As Simran345 said, do Waheguru simran. God's Name sorts out eveything. For the long term, strengthen your relationship to Gurujee and God. This is the best way forward. Read books such as The Spirit Born People by Professor Puran Singh. Also as GuptKaurUK mentioned, confidence is a function of preparation. Obama lost the first round of debate in the recent US presidential elections because he had miscalculated Mitt Romney's debating power and was not prepared, causing him to stagger and lose his confidence and fighting spirit. I run a couple of businesses confidently andsuccessfully, and a big reason is because through God's grace I plan to be prepared for whatever needs to be said or done etc.

We have a tree in our house and it doesn't make a difference to us that it's there. It's not stopping us doing our Nitnem, it's not enticing us towards the panj chor and in no way is it turning us into Christans or to idol worship. It's no different to the other plants in my house. Yes, it makes an appearance at this time of year and then disappears again for the rest if the year, we don't become honorary Christians for 2 weeks because of a tree - if it did, I'd be questioning the strength of my faith, not the tree.

Language is a very powerful tool. You have to learn how to use it well. The word 'moderate' , to the average man and woman in the world, means level-headed, sane and fair. By saying in your title how the youths have defeated the 'moderates', it translates as hot-headed insane and unfair extremists have defeated the sane and the fair. The people you call 'moderates' are in fact the extremists. There is Sikhism and the tenets of Sikhism is all too clear. The Sikh youth you talk about are the moderates because they adhere to Sikhism without any distortions. The ones you call 'moderates' are the extremists because they think they can distort Sikhism to suit their own purpose and political beliefs. So extreme in fact that they distort it for the benefit of India rather than Sikhism. Thats about as extremist as extremism gets.

Just got back from the candle light vigil in the same city where this school is located. I must say, it was raining, it was freezing cold, yet people came in thousands to pay tributes to those souls.

I'm going to go get artificial tree that has been in the garage for years and set it up just because this thread inspired me to. Dhan dhan sant baba Jesus Nazareth wale

The maryada i was given by Sant Nicholas Lapland (Finlandwale) was that its okay to keep a Christmas tree so long as i have shashtar hanging from the tree.

“There are 7 days in the week; someday, isn’t one of them” Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fat-heh Sangat Ji, You are warmly invited to visit our FB page to receive some daily motivation and inspiration from videos, quotes, articles, paintings and photos on real martial culture worldwide. http://www.facebook.com/ElusiveFighter We are not associated with any particular jathhaa-bandi or controversial personalities (and in the interest of panthic unity, nor will we promote them), so you can enjoy all and freely learn from the information without fear of there being an underlying agenda. If you would like to receive regular updates on the page, please click ‘like’. Whilst we treasure and preserve our own culture and martial heritage, we should keep an open mind and in the true spirit of Dasmesh Pita and the Puratan Khalsa, and seek to ever increase our knowledge. Guru Gobind Singh adopted all that was good around them, including Ferangi Shastar (European, South Indian, Persian, Afghan etc), Maharaja Ranjit Singh adopted European drills and warfare... those of us who are serious about martial learning – should seek and acquire knowledge of the best fighting arts in the world, many of which are still little known. The page seeks to remain apolitical – we celebrate martial heritage from all cultures and faiths – so please bear this in mind, any derogatory or disrespectful behaviour will be met with zero tolerance. Please only leave ‘intelligent’ and well thought out comments if you wish to say something. The page seeks to bring all communities together under a common language, whilst simultaneously inspiring them individually. If you have any nice quotes, sakhis, photos etc that you would like to share, please feel free to e-mail elusivefighter@gmail.com. Please use this inspiration to let the art of fighting manifest in your life. Through daily learning, practice and deep contemplation of yudh, you will become Singhs by nature, and dignity will be restored to the shastar we carry and jungee baana many wear. The teachings of the Sri Dasam Granth Sahib will become alive for you when you are taking earnest steps to learn and live martial culture. Udham (sincere effort) is required in this endeavour. A few weeks or months of classes in a popular MA is not going to do the trick. Martial culture and improvement should be part of your everyday life. Alongside, and more importantly – one needs to keep the ‘shakti’ in check. Anyone can become a great fighter, but without the protection of bhagti, they will simply become monsters in Saints clothing. It is a myth that bhagti impedes martial spirit or progress, the opposite is true. Intelligent lifestyle, correct devotion i.e. sincere effort in learning Gurbani arthh and patient and prem-bhari bhagti, leads to reduction of fear, increase in courage and clearer objective with regards to why you are learning yudh vidya. It also paves the way for ‘yudh abhyaas’, the stage in your learning when you truly become your own teacher (someone who creates techniques and responses to scenarios, rather than someone who always seeks to copy or replicate them). This is achieved through bringing your mind under control and the ‘unrequested needs’ are fulfilled by Antarjami Parmeshar. ਨਾਨਕ ਸੋ ਸੂਰਾ ਵਰੀਆਮੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਦੁਸਟੁ ਅਹੰਕਰਣੁ ਮਾਰਿਆ ॥ Nanak so sooraa vareeaamu jini vichahu dusatu ahankaranu maariaa: O Nanak, he is a brave warrior, who kills annihilates his vicious ego from within. Bhagti is the true purpose of your life, fighting skill is simply the means to be able to protect that lifestyle. Through education, we destroy ignorance. Through humility, we become powerful. Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fat-heh “I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend”

Sikh Federation (UK) pleased to announce that the European Commission has now agreed to a new Regulation concerning the screening of passengers at airports that will allow the use of alternative screening of dastaars (UK method) as hand searches are undesirable. New Regulation will be published by the end of 2012, allowing all EU airports the use of this alternative screening method early in the New Year 2013.

Good one lol. Here's another one: "Oh you're the last shastar vidiya akali shiv nihang master" "Please tell me more about how many battles you've fought" Can someone make it pleaseeeee

I love this guy...soo true..lol

In loving memory of my elder brother and Prince - Sahibzada Baba Ajeet Singh Ji - who fought his 1st battle at 11 and laid down his at life at 18, massively outnumbered and fighting against tyrants. Jogi Allah Yaar Khan praises SWORD of Baba Ajeet Singh Ji Sahib ਕਿਸ ਮੂੰਹ ਸੇ ਕਰੂੰ ਤੇਗ਼-ਏ-ਖ਼ਮਦਾਰ ਕੀ ਤਾਰੀਫ਼ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਕੀ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ੀ ਹੂਈ ਤਲਵਾਰ ਕੀ ਤਾਰੀਫ਼ ਪਰਕਾਲਾ-ਏ-ਆਤਿਸ਼ ਕੀ ਸ਼ੱਰਰਬਾਰ ਕੀ ਤਾਰੀਫ਼ ਬਾਂਕੀ ਕੀ, ਨੁਕੀਲੀ ਕੀ, ਤਰਹਦਾਰ ਕੀ ਤਾਰੀਫ਼ ਥੀ ਦੋਸ਼ ਪਿ ਸ਼ਮਸ਼ੀਰ ਯਾ ਕਾਂਧੇ ਪਿ ਪਰੀ ਥੀ ਥੀ ਤਿਸ਼ਨਾ-ਏ-ਖ਼ੂੰ ਇਸ ਲੀਏ ਗ਼ੁੱਸੇ ਮੇਂ ਭਰੀ ਥੀ ਤਲਵਾਰ ਸੀ ਤਲਵਾਰ ਥੀ ਕਯਾ ਜਾਨੀਏ ਕਯਾ ਥੀ ਖ਼ੂੰਖ਼ਾਰ ਥੀ ਖ਼ੂੰਬਾਰ ਥੀ ਆਫ਼ਤ ਥੀ ਬਲਾ ਥੀ ਥੀ ਆਬ ਯਾ ਫੌਲਾਦ ਪਿ ਬਿਜਲੀ ਕੀ ਜਿਲਾ ਥੀ ਯਮਰਾਜ ਕੀ ਅੰਮਾਂ ਥੀ ਵੁਹ ਸ਼ਮਸ਼ੀਰ-ਏ-ਕਜ਼ਾ ਥੀ ਅਰਦਲ ਮੇਂ ਬਿਚਾਰੇ ਮਲਕੁਲ-ਮੌਤ ਖੜੇ ਥੇ ਅਪਨੇ ਸ਼ੁਗਲ-ਏ-ਖ਼ਾਸ ਮੇਂ ਮਸ਼ਗੂਲ ਬੜੇ ਥੇ ਉਸ ਹਾਥ ਮੇਂ ਥੇ ਬਾਜ਼ੂ-ਏ-ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਕੇ ਕਸਬਲ ਫ਼ਰਜ਼ੰਦ ਕੀ ਤਲਵਾਰ ਸੇ ਥਰਰਾ ਗਏ ਜਲ ਥਲ ਜ਼ਿੰਦੋਂ ਕਾ ਤੋ ਕਯਾ ਜ਼ਿਕਰ ਹੈ ਮੁਰਦੇ ਹੂਏ ਬੇਕਲ ਸ਼ਮਸ਼ਾਨ ਮੇਂ ਥਾ ਸ਼ੋਰ ਮਜ਼ਾਰੋਂ ਮੇਂ ਥੀ ਹਲਚਲ ਜਮਨਾ ਕੇ ਭੀ ਪਾਨੀ ਮੇਂ ਤਲਾਤਮ ਸਾ ਬਪਾ ਥਾ ਗੰਗਾ ਕੇ ਭੀ ਜ਼ਰਰੋਂ ਮੇਂ ਅਜਬ ਜੋਸ਼ ਭਰਾ ਥਾ So young, not yet married, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji caringly prepared his beloved to son to wed the supreme bride 'death'..... And so, Baba Ajeet Singh (Invincible Lion) roared on to the battlefield to partake in the wedding ceremony, the Bride dressed in customary and beautiful red dress....

I LOVE THE LAST BIT :d

I wonder if Jesus is in Sachkhand... *sharply exits forum, finds the nearest bunker and sits back as the fireworks begin...*

Dhan Dhan Bhagat Jesus Ji

Hmmm tuadi gall vi say ah. A Christmas tree isnt an exclusively Christian symbol now anyway. Im not gonna bother getting into a deep disscusion over Christmas trees, ive already put mine up, it looks nice and i like it, ive seen some Chardi Kala Gursikhs with Christmas trees and ive heard what a Brahmgiani said about them so thats it for me. When its time to put it up again i will do. Merry Christmas!! Saari sangatan nu Bhagat Jesus Ji de janam din te boht boht Vadhaian!! :D

I'm willing to change my views, but I don't see as the choice of putting a tree up or not anywhere CLOSE to being important as addressing both sides of the argument and educating myself. I won't do something or not do something just because someone says so unless it conflicts with my Sikhi. http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_tree.htm

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Admin Veero, Could you please look into this issue jeo? I haven't had a single email notification from the server after the forum upgrade. Or am i doing something wrong? Gurfateh!

na menu koi shanka aa, na mai koi vaar keeta aa...es thread da title aa "wake up", bas ohi karan di koshish kiti aa, pehlaan apne aap nu, te naale baakiya nu...Sant jee hor vi bhaut sach de bachan uchaarde si jo asi bhul chukke aa...je chete hunde te ajj "wake up" di lod nai si peni, asi pello hee jaagruk hona si...

I think the word investment is really key here. What I think happens in our community a lot is this... "This Baba looks like a Sant, if I give him £500 then he will bless me and my business/works will come to fruition and I'll get back £10,000, so this is a great investment. Not only that, everyone will see me donating and will respect me." Gurbani says... "De De, Mangeh Sehsa Goona, Sobh Kare Sansaar" You give and give, but you ask for a 1000 times more and that everyone respects you. Gurbani also says, "Kot Madhe Ko Virla Sevak, Sagle Biohari. "Out of millions, hardly anyone is a servant (nishkaam seva), all others are mere traders." So thats why there are loads of Babas, you cant get money unless you're a baba. If Bhagat Puran Singh had travelled the world with a chitta chola and let people matha tek to him...but thankfully he didn't and realised true wealth lies at Gurus feet.

If decorating a specific tree didn't make a difference on you then why do it in first place? (no gain or loss) The fact you are putting up a specific tree means it does mean something to you. Here is an example. Bhagat Namdev ji Maharaj questions the Hindus in Gurbani, why are you worshipping one stone and the other stone you kick in the street? Where is the logic in your practice. Bhagat Ji was trying to make the Hindus realize that a stone is a stone and nothing more. If Bhagat Namdev Ji Maharaj was here right now in Sargun Saroop he will ask the same question to the Christmas tree followers, but just replace stone with tree idol. Here on this site members are trying to make the attached members to a Christmas tree realize a tree is a tree. Why discriminate between them and say one is higher for a certain amount of days by decorating it and glorifying it in your living room. Again if it didn't mean anything then that plastic tree or real tree would have stayed on the shelves of a store or in the ground and served its purpose as a tree.

Lol, I don't remember Neo wearing a pagh in the matrix. Although, that would have been cool. I was asking the OP.

Dearest _Idontknow_, First of all I pray to Gurujee to guide you in your life because you are young and confused about education and the future. I come from a background where I was very very involved with Sikh youth camps at your stage. Almost all the Sikh youths I knew were so involved in Sikhism so they had a clean life, no drugs, smoking, alcohol etc and so they were able to focus on their studies and most of them became graduates, doctors, lawyers, engineers etc because when you are not in bad company doing wrong things your mind is clean, body is strong , and good friends to encourage you on, so you wont miss school and colege and will be good at school and do well. Also, I am so happy you posted on this site because there are so many people on this site who dont know you, but really love you deeply as their younger brother and will help you. That is a fact. So keep posting and you will get a lot of help here. You have many many experienced veerjees and bhenjees on this site who will take care of you. As you said earlier after you get back from school you love to see Sikh videos etc. This is very very good. Hopefully you can also go to gurdwara regularly, start to learn tabla or harmonium so you have some music hobbies and learn punjabee and how to read Gurbanee, attend rehnsbhaeees, kirtan darbars, simran sessions, youth programmes etc so you are making many new Sikh friends everywhere and learning and progressing in Sikhism. I think there are Sikh youth camps in UK but you can find out. As for your studies I completely understand you because I used to be the same. Coming back home and lazy to do my homework, always doing it last minute and passing it up last minute. I was not clever in organising myself and my dad thought I was studying but I was reading books on Sikhism every night haha. However, I passed my A levels because I studied very very hard last minute so I went to university. So my advice is try to carry on doing your A levels. In the gym I go to there is an English white guy called Alex who is 17 years old. He told me he prefers to build his muscles at the gym every evening but I advised him to carry on doing that, but also to study and pass his two AS subjects he is repeating, and the other A 2 level subjects he is doing this year. So hopefully you too can pull yourself together and pass your A levels I did. Then you can think of uni. Also, you have not mentioned about any physical activities you do. If you are already not doing it, make sure you are learning swimming, and going to a gym , learning martial arts like gatka, TKD, etc because a Sikh has to be strong not just in mind but body too. It will help you to play less computer games. A university student who works for me and is doing his Masters in Mathematics, does cross country running, rock and mountain climbing, swimming, marathons and so many other physical activities. Another guy who works for me does kayaking, rowing and water polo etc. So you need to be absolutely physically active. If I met you I would like you to have strong muscles all around your body and look brave like a soldier. So, do not worry about your future. I never think much of my future because I always concentrate on doing the right thing TODAY, NOW. Today, I made sure I did my aquafit and swimming and gym and today I made sure my business is running fine and today I prayed to God, and today I made sure I helped and showed love to other people. Gurujee will look after tomorow if I am good today. So, my dearest brother, focus on being physically strong, get close to Sikhism and push yourself to carry on studying. You are not done in studies yet and seriously everything is not destroyed for you, because you are only around 17 like a spring chicken haha. Studies in any subject are absolutely interesting because they tell us about God's power, and how God does things and makes the universe. So think of your studies in a different way. As we study each subject our mind gets to understand how great God is and what a great scientist, mathematician, doctor, engineer and architect God is. All those chemicals you study about in chemistry, and how plants and other living things are created and live in biology and all the laws in physics and the beauty of this planet in geography and the history of everything in history. Sikhism encourages us to learn about the beauty and power of God and how He does things. It is very fascinating. I wish I understood this when I was your age then I would have found school so much more exciting and would have been gagging to go to school every day in stead of pretending to be sick hehe. So do not ever worry about the future. Just make your life more exciting and interesting now. You will be fine. Keep typing here too as you progress.

Fateh You are not doing anything wrong. To fix the time out issue of of the things we turned off was notifications as when a new topic is posted the forum starts emailing everyone. I will hopefully restore this functionality soon. Admin.

I have my own Neo style. Most Sikhs think I'm weirdo and from Mars or something. Jk

je Indira Gandhi Hindu si, te Gurbachna Narkdhari ki si? je Wazir Khan Musalmaan si, te Narainu Mahant ki si? je Jagdish Tytler Hindu aa, te KPS Gill ki aa? je Sajjan Kumar Hindu aa, te Gen. Brar ki aa? je Abdali Musalmaan si, te Longowal ki si? je HKL Bhagat Hindu si, te Zail Singh ki si? je Gobind Ram Hindu si, te Ajit Poohla ki si? je Rajiv Gandhi Hindu si, te Manmohan Singh ki aa? hai koi jawaab kisi de kol? eh 2-dhaari talwar da ki faida? jad jee keeta jihnu marji Hindu ya Musalmaan keh ke nind dena, te jad apni vaari aave te jihnu marji Sikh mannan ton inkaari ho jaana? ik passe ghair-Sikh virodhiyaan nu asi dusht te vairi keh dinne aa, te dastaar daari panj kakaaraan vaale gaddaaraan nu Sikh kyon nai mann'de? kee kaaran hai ki asi har ghair-Sikh qaum de naam nu ikk laanat bana leya hai, te "Sikh" nu ikk status symbol? enni sharm aun lappi sach nu kabool karn velle? hai koi jawaab kisi de kol? kinne ne ajj jo baal nai katt'de? kinne ne ajj jo nashe nai peende, sharaab nai peende, tambaaku nai phookde? kinne ne ajj jo dheeyaan da katal nai karde? kinne ne ajj jo jaataan paataan ch aap fasse hoye ne par qaum de har dukh da iljaam ohna de ser paayi jande jihna ne jaat paat shuru keeti si? matlab ki miththaa vi khaayi jaana, te jad seht khraab hogi te iljaam halwaayi te mathe maar dena? hai koi jawaab kisi de kol? jotshiyaan kol tusi jaana, dhaage taveej tusi poune, devi devteyaan kol ser pittan tusi jaana, mothi vaali mundriyaan tusi unglaan te sajounia, kannaan ch baaliyaan tusi paa leiyaan, boothee te ustra tusi ferna shuru karta, te janta dandh kadd'ke sanu puchhdi aa "yaar tu te kehnda si Sikhi ch ih sab manaa aa?" hai koi jawaab kisi de kol? badi sharam aundi aa jad koi ghair-Sikh sadde itihaas te Gurmat/Gurbani diyaan doongiyaan gallaan sunn ke baagh-baagh ho janda, te daari-dastaar de ghar jammi aulaad ne soun khaadi aa ki asi es itihaas/Gurmat/Gurbani nu bina question keete brush nai karna! oye, apna majaak na banaao! lokkaan kol vese vi jokes di koi ghaat nai, ohna nu real life examples deke apni qaum nu laantaan na pavaao, apne Panth nu ikk stand up comedy na darsaao!

hmmm now lets use what you have written and replace it with a "Moorti of Shiva" and see how it sounds. We have a Moorti of Shiva in our house and it doesn't make a difference to us that it's there. It's not stopping us doing our Nitnem, it's not enticing us towards the panj chor and in no way is it turning us into Hindus or to idol worship. It's no different to the other artifacts in my house. Yes, it makes an appearance at this time of year and then disappears again for the rest if the year, we don't become honorary Hindus for 2 weeks because of a Moorti of Shiva- if it did, I'd be questioning the strength of my faith, not the Moorti of Shiva. Now tell me, if a Sikh in India used these words would we still find it acceptable? or would we object to this arguement put forth by a Sikh trying to follow some Hindu ritual just because the kids find it fun?

Haanji Veerji, my impulsive reaction would've been the same as yours, because if there is some truth in the rumour that's been floating about then it becomes a very serious issue indeed. There are many singhs on this forum that seem very active on a political level, some even invite Singh Sahib Jathedar ji to various events and so on, so my assumption is that they must have access to their personal number, they should call him asap as you suggested. Calling SGPC won't help much, I think.

The British as the colonial power had a duty to protect their subjects, the same subjects who paid taxes and who had fought on behalf of the British for over 100 years. The excuse of exhaustion is a poor one as having fought for over 6 years they could still have spared a few hundred thousand troops for a year to ensure a peaceful handover. Mountbatten is shown as some sort of expert administrator who had an impossible job of which he did his best, but he his decisions ensured that over half a million British subjects were murdered. I suppose he got his just desserts when the IRA blew him up!

In Remembrance Of The Immortal Shaheedi Of The Four Sahibzade, Kent Kirtan Society (UK) Presents Bhai Satvinder Singh & Bhai Harvinder Singh (Delhi Wale) UK Tour December 2012: Fri 21st Dec: 4:15pm-5pm At Sri Guru Singh Sabha Gurdwara, 2-8 Park Ave, Southall, UB1 3AG 7:30pm-8:30pm At Sri Guru Singh Sabha Gurdwara, Havelock Rd, Southall, UB2 4NP Sat 22nd Dec: 5pm-6pm At Guru Nanak Dev Ji Gurdwara, Wakefield Rd, Bradford, BD4 7DP 6:45pm-8pm At Central Gurdwara, 32 Derby St, Manchester, M8 8RY 9pm-10pm At The Sikh Temple, 192 Chapeltown Rd, Leeds, LS7 4HZ Sun 23rd Dec: 11:30am-12:30pm At Sri Guru Gobind Singh Gurdwara, The Cloisters, Sunderland, SR2 7ED 1:15pm-2:15pm At Gurdwara Sri Guru Singh Sabha, Tindal Close, Newcastle Upon Tyne, NE4 5RJ 5pm-6pm At Gurdwara Khalsa Mero Roop Hai Khas, West Way, South Shields, NE33 4SR 8pm-9pm At The Sikh Temple, 192 Chapeltown Rd, Leeds, LS7 4HZ Mon 24th Dec: 6am-8am (Asa Di Vaar) At The Sikh Temple, 192 Chapeltown Rd, Leeds, LS7 4HZ 9pm-10pm At The Sikh Temple, 192 Chapeltown Rd, Leeds, LS7 4HZ Tues 25th Dec: 4:15pm-5pm At Sri Guru Singh Sabha Gurdwara, 2-8 Park Ave Southall, UB1 3AG 7:30pm-8:30pm At Sri Guru Singh Sabha Gurdwara, Havelock Rd, Southall, UB2 4NP For Further Information Please Contact Gurpreet Singh: 07403288274 Or Visit www.kentkirtansociety.org

It is not befitting of a Sikh of the Guru to put up a Christmas tree in his/her house. Firstly we are not Christians that we need to celebrate this holyday of Yasoo Masee. Secondly if your excuse is that you are celebrating it because it is a European pagan holyday, then please do your self a favour and look at yourself in the mirror and see for yourself, YOU ARE NOT A GORA! so stop trying to act like a coconut because that's exactly what you are if you celebrate Christmas by putting up a tree. A Sikh should be very careful living in the west. If you celebrate these non Sikh holydays with your family what kind of sanskaars are you giving to your children? you are basically confusing your children who will grow up thinking it is perfectly okay to celebrate Christmas and by extention Hanakah and even Eid! then we wonder where we went wrong when our confused girls grow up marrying Muslims and Christians. December is not a month for us to celebrate. Our Sahibzadas and Mata Gujri Ji were Shaheed in this month. This is a HUGE tragady. So remember these Shaheedis before cheerfully celebrating Christian holydays. TORA SHARAM KARO!!

Great photo by Freed paaji!

Fateh Everyone, We have been working for over the past few weeks, pretty much everyday to sort out the timeout issue. With the help of forum software provider, we have applied few fixes. Hopefully these will fix the issue of timeouts when new topic were being created. If you experience this issue still or any other issues, please let us know. Admin

Have you been fortunate enough to do their darshan? Sadly I haven't. I guess I've not been a good boy.

Really love how he put it. I think too much we, as Sikhs, try too hard to show that we are Sikhs without acting like Sikhs. Our identity should be enough to show we're Sikhs, but with our identity our actions should very powerfully dictate who we are. Guru Sahib didn't create a religion as used by western term, but a Dharam for humanity a lifestyle of truth and treading a path. Sikh means student so we should act as such. There is a big void that exists in overly religions people (mostly people who are stuck in the trap of ritualism in organized religion) and a big void in crusading atheists. There is something Universal that connects us all and that Truth is what Guru Sahib tells us about. Some may find this a weird post and if you do, feel free to post why you think so. Nanak Naam Chardi Kalaa Tere Bhane Sarbat Da Bhalla Sab Jot Teri Jag Jeevana Tu Ghat Ghat Har Rang Rangana

A life of hard work, simplicity and discipline.... real strength.

Chanak Raajneeti was written around 2000 years ago Sarkutavali was written by Pandit hardayal who was linked to Guru Amardas Ji's lineage Bhavrasamrit was by Pandit Gulab Singh Nirmala Vichar Mala by Anath Das Udasi Vairag Shatak by Bharthari who was one of the Sidhs who met Sri Guru NanakDev Ji Parbodh Chandar Natak by Pandit Gulab Singh Nirmala Adhiatam Parkash by Pandit Sukhdev Singh Nirmala Birti Parbhakar by Pandit Nischal Das Vichar Sagar by Pandit Nischal Das only three of the granths are by the nirmalas. All apart from Birti Parbhakar can be found in gurmukhi

ਟੁੰਡੇ ਅਸਰਾਜ ਦੀ ਕਹਾਣੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਆਸਾ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ ਦੇ ਸਿਰਲੇਖ ਵਿਚ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੈ "ਟੁੰਡੇ ਅਸ ਰਾਜੈ ਕੀ ਧੁਨੀ ॥" ਕੌਣ ਸੀ ਟੁੰਡਾ ਅਸਰਾਜ? ਪੇਸ਼ ਹੈ ਇਸ ਦੀ ਕਹਾਣੀ, ਪ੍ਰੋਫੈਸਰ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਜ਼ਬਾਨੀ। ਸਾਖੀ: ਅਸਰਾਜ ਇਕ ਰਾਜੇ ਦਾ ਪੁੱਤਰ ਸੀ, ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਸਾਰੰਗ ਸੀ। ਆਪਣੀ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਮਰ ਜਾਣ ਕਰਕੇ ਰਾਜਾ ਸਾਰੰਗ ਨੇ ਪਿਛਲੀ ਉਮਰੇ ਇਕ ਹੋਰ ਵਿਆਹ ਕਰ ਲਿਆ। ਨਵੀਂ ਰਾਣੀ ਆਪਣੇ ਮਤ੍ਰੇਏ ਪੁੱਤਰ ਅਸਰਾਜ ਤੇ ਰੀਝ ਪਈ, ਪਰ ਅਸਰਾਜ ਆਪਣੇ ਧਰਮ ਤੇ ਕਾਇਮ ਰਿਹਾ। ਜਦੋਂ ਰਾਣੀ ਦੀ ਹੋਰ ਕੋਈ ਚਾਲ ਪੁੱਤਰ ਨੂੰ ਧਰਮ ਤੋਂ ਡੇਗਣ ਵਿਚ ਕਾਮਯਾਬ ਨਾਹ ਹੋਈ, ਤਾਂ ਉਸ ਨੇ ਰਾਜੇ ਪਾਸ ਅਸਰਾਜ ਦੇ ਉਲਟ ਝੂਠੇ ਦੂਸ਼ਣ ਲਗਾ ਦਿੱਤੇ। ਰਾਜੇ ਨੇ ਕ੍ਰੋਧ ਵਿਚ ਆ ਕੇ ਪੁੱਤਰ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਫਾਂਸੀ ਦਾ ਹੁਕਮ ਦੇ ਦਿੱਤਾ। ਰਾਜੇ ਦਾ ਵਜ਼ੀਰ ਸਿਆਣਾ ਸੀ। ਉਸ ਨੇ ਅਸਰਾਜ ਨੂੰ ਜਾਨੋਂ ਤਾਂ ਨਾਹ ਮਾਰਿਆ ਪਰ ਉਸ ਦਾ ਇਕ ਹੱਥ ਕੱਟ ਕੇ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਸ਼ਹਿਰੋਂ ਬਾਹਰ ਕਿਸੇ ਉਜਾੜ ਵਿਚ ਇਕ ਖੂਹ ਤੇ ਛੱਡ ਦਿੱਤਾ। ਉੱਥੋਂ ਦੀ ਵਣਜਾਰਿਆਂ ਦਾ ਇਕ ਕਾਫ਼ਲਾ ਲੰਘਿਆ। ਉਹਨਾਂ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਇਕ ਵਣਜਾਰੇ ਨੇ ਅਸਰਾਜ ਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਨਾਲ ਲੈ ਲਿਆ। ਵਣਜਾਰੇ ਕਿਸੇ ਹੋਰ ਰਾਜੇ ਦੇ ਸ਼ਹਿਰ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਦੀ ਲੰਘੇ। ਉਥੇ ਅਸਰਾਜ ਇਕ ਧੋਬੀ ਦੇ ਪਾਸ ਵੇਚ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਗਿਆ। ਅਸਰਾਜ ਉੱਥੇ ਧੋਬੀ ਦੇ ਘਰ ਰਹਿ ਕੇ ਸੇਵਾ ਵਿਚ ਆਪਣੇ ਦਿਨ ਬਿਤਾਉਣ ਲੱਗ ਪਿਆ। ਸਮਾ ਪਾ ਕੇ ਉਸ ਸ਼ਹਿਰ ਦਾ ਰਾਜਾ ਸੰਤਾਨ-ਹੀਨ ਹੀ ਮਰ ਗਿਆ। ਵਜ਼ੀਰਾਂ ਨੇ ਆਪੋ ਵਿਚ ਫ਼ੈਸਲਾ ਕੀਤਾ ਕਿ ਸਵੇਰੇ ਜੋ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਸਭ ਤੋਂ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਸ਼ਹਿਰ ਦਾ ਦਰਵਾਜ਼ਾ ਖੜਕਾਏ, ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਰਾਜ ਦੇ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਜਾਏ। ਅਸਰਾਜ ਦੇ ਭਾਗ ਜਾਗੇ ਧੋਬੀ ਦਾ ਬਲਦ ਖੁਲ੍ਹ ਗਿਆ ਬਲਦ ਦੀ ਢੂੰਡ ਭਾਲ ਵਿਚ ਅਸਰਾਜ ਸਵੇਰੇ ਹੀ ਉਠ ਤੁਰਿਆ ਤੇ ਦਰਵਾਜ਼ਾ ਜਾ ਖੜਕਾਇਓਸੁ। ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਉਸ ਦੇਸ਼ ਦਾ ਰਾਜ ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਮਿਲ ਗਿਆ। ਰਾਜੇ ਦਾ ਪੁੱਤਰ ਹੋਣ ਕਰਕੇ ਅਸਰਾਜ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਰਾਜ-ਪਰਬੰਧ ਵਾਲੇ ਸੰਸਕਾਰ ਮੌਜੂਦ ਸਨ; ਸੋ ਏਸ ਨੇ ਦੇਸ਼ ਦੇ ਪਰਬੰਧ ਨੂੰ ਚੰਗੀ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਸੰਭਾਲ ਲਿਆ। ਕੁਝ ਸਮਾ ਪਾ ਕੇ ਗੁਆਂਢੀ ਦੇਸ਼ਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਕਾਲ ਪੈ ਗਿਆ, ਪਰ ਅਸਰਾਜ ਦੇ ਦੇਸ਼ ਵਿਚ ਚੰਗਾ ਸੁਕਾਲ ਸੀ। ਦੂਸਰੇ ਦੇਸ਼ਾਂ ਦੇ ਲੋਕ ਇਸ ਦੇ ਰਾਜ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਅੰਨ ਦਾਣਾ ਮੁੱਲ ਲੈਣ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਆਉਣ ਲੱਗ ਪਏ। ਇਸ ਦੇ ਪਿਤਾ ਦਾ ਵਜ਼ੀਰ ਭੀ ਆਇਆ। ਅਸਰਾਜ ਨੇ ਵਜ਼ੀਰ ਨੂੰ ਪਛਾਣ ਲਿਆ। ਆਪੋ ਵਿਚ ਦੋਵੇਂ ਬੜੇ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਨਾਲ ਮਿਲੇ। ਅਸਰਾਜ ਨੇ ਵਜ਼ੀਰ ਦੀ ਬੜੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਕੀਤੀ, ਤੇ ਕੁਝ ਦਿਨ ਕੋਲ ਰੱਖ ਕੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਪਿਤਾ ਦੇ ਦੇਸ਼-ਵਾਸੀਆਂ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਬਹੁਤ ਸਾਰਾ ਅੰਨ ਮੁੱਲ ਲੈਣ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਹੀ ਭੇਟ ਕੀਤਾ। ਵਜ਼ੀਰ ਨੇ ਵਾਪਸ ਆ ਕੇ ਇਹ ਸਾਰਾ ਬ੍ਰਿਤਾਂਤ ਰਾਜੇ ਨੂੰ ਦੱਸਿਆ ਤੇ ਪ੍ਰੇਰਿਆ ਕਿ ਆਪਣੇ ਪੁੱਤਰ ਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਆਪਣਾ ਰਾਜ ਭੀ ਸਉਂਪੇ। ਰਾਜੇ ਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਪੁੱਤਰ ਦੇ ਨੇਕ ਆਚਰਨ ਦਾ ਪਤਾ ਲੱਗ ਚੁਕਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਸੀ। ਉਸ ਨੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਵਜ਼ੀਰ ਦੀ ਇਹ ਭਲੀ ਸਲਾਹ ਮੰਨ ਲਈ ਤੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਪੁੱਤਰ ਨੂੰ ਸਦਵਾ ਕੇ ਆਪਣਾ ਰਾਜ ਭੀ ਉਸ ਦੇ ਹਵਾਲੇ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤਾ। ਢਾਡੀਆਂ ਨੇ ਇਹ ਸਾਰਾ ਬ੍ਰਿਤਾਂਤ 'ਵਾਰ' ਵਿਚ ਜੋੜ ਕੇ ਰਾਜਾ ਦੇ ਦਰਬਾਰ ਵਿਚ ਗਾਂਵਿਆ ਤੇ ਇਨਾਮ ਹਾਸਲ ਕੀਤੇ। ਤਦੋਂ ਤੋਂ ਢਾਡੀ ਇਹ ਵਾਰ ਗਾਂਵਦੇ ਚਲੇ ਆ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ। ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਨੇ 'ਆਸਾ ਦੀ ਵਾਰ' ਭੀ ਇਸੇ 'ਵਾਰ' ਦੀ ਸੁਰ ਉਤੇ ਗਾਉਣ ਦੀ ਆਗਿਆ ਕੀਤੀ ਹੈ।