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Yes, but that was in the 1960s when Britain had an industrial base and was switching it's manufacturing to be reliant on more efficient electric and oil power. For those who dont know, in the 1950s Britain started building its welfare state to end inequality. In the century before the rich were stinking rich and the poor were stinking poor even with Britian stealing a quarter of the world's resources. The building of institutions for the poor (NHS, transport etc) as well as free trade in the western world led to a massive demand in labour. Most poor europeans were locked in countries with dictatorships so the Brits turned to the Commonwealth instead. Sikhs came to the UK and worked in factories and other industries. This turned Britain into a modern country. Japan did something similar in the same time period. Korea did it in the 80s and 90s. China did it in the 00s and will carry on in the 10s. The money from working in factories paid taxes for schools in the UK that educated the kids of the immigrant Sikhs. This allowed them to escape the drudgery of the English working class life. Thatcher came along and destroyed British industry as it was the backbone of Labour and the trade unions/socialists. The opportunity for uneducated Sikhs to come and work in British industry ended right there and then. Then in the early 2000s the EU was enlarged and labour that had been locked up in Eastern Europe was allowed to go where they wanted in Europe. This closed the other two main areas that uneducated (by Western standards) Sikhs could work in: agriculture and labour. The Eastern Europeans are far more fluent in English and simple enough to take instructions without overcomplicating things or getting bored. Anyone telling you that you need to know how to build a wall or hold a wrench will get you a leg up in the UK is talking rubbish. They just want pindus that they can abuse for cheap labour in their construction companies - which means more money for them. Dont fall for it! Then the credit crunch happened. Work dried up. People cant borrow to live lavish lifestyles and the government doesnt have the cash to pay people to sit on their backsides. Low wages and inflation are eroding the worth of the British pound. The EU will enlarge this year and even more Romanians and Bulgarians will come here to undercut the very Eastern Europeans who undercut the Faujis. There are an awful lot of sharks in a small ocean over here. If you want to improve your lot in life get Badal to go around other countries and drum up trade and investment in East Punjab rather than touring the deras. Other countries build factories and we build fake prophets and cults. East Punjabis turn their noses up at the thought of it, but this kind of factory work is the exact thing many grandparents did in the UK so that their kids could get an education and not have to travel the world looking for work. The Japanese, Germans, Koreans and now the Chinese all had a generation that slogged it out in the factories so that their kids wouldnt be poor and have to be immigrants in someone else's country to have a better life. What is wrong with East Punjabis that they dont get this?

You ask what his parents have to do with it before going on about how different generations are different. His parents generation in Punjab much like my grandfather's generation got on with it, whether it was in Punjab or England. There were no unions for Sikhs in Punjab back then and not all of them understood employees rights in the UK either. My grandad told me about someone from his village who went to the Midlands to work in a factory. The supervisor asked him if he wanted to do overtime. He said sure. 40 hours later he was still there. Hadnt gone home, hadnt stopped, just kept going. I doubt someone from my generation would do something like that. Also, to accuse our grandparents of illegal immigration is wrong. Plenty got here legally and had to avoid things like national service because they were so legal. As for your little speech about England, it has changed massively. Only a fool would think that Canada, a land with massive living space and educated population could compare to the bleak overcrowded isle packed with unemployed uneducated goreh and musis that is Britain. How can UK Sikhs feel pity for people who come here with the main ambition of getting enough money to build a big house back in EP with an Indian Airforce MIG model on the roof? Are they high on Disney movies? They dont want the money to build hospitals in EP. They dont want to build better schools in EP. They dont want to improve EP at all. Yet they still come expecting milk and honey even when every objective indicator says the opposite. It's like a toddler going up to Jimmy Saville expecting a lollypop and getting something else. So many UK Sikhs want out of the UK but EPs keep coming here expecting us to wipe their backsides. I know people with engineering degrees who can only get jobs in Sainsburys here but are offered crazy money to go abroad. And they go abroad - who can blame them? Over 50% of muslim men in the UK are unemployed. There are white homes where 3 generations have never held a job. Who wants to pay taxes to support them? Sikhs are net contributors to HM Treasury and give per capita more than anyone else apart from the Jews. But that wont last as so many Sikhs are leaving. The immigrants who came here in the 60s are leaving when their educated children establish themselves abroad. What hopes do these EPs have? The races you mention have turned their areas into nothing more than ghettos. Overusing council services has created a strain that wont last. Are you happy to see you local school go down the drain because they dont have the resources to teach all the children from English chav mothers looking for benefits, Somalis, Poles, Paks etc etc.? EPs come here all doe eyed and expect it to be the 1960s. I'll happily help a Sikh immigrant out. I'll tell him he's screwed up and should have stayed in India and got an education if he wanted to emigrate. I wont support the enslavement of Sikh immigrants into the inequal structure of British society like many Poles and Somalis are finding themselves in. To summarise, Britain needed labour in the 1960s. Jobs came easily. Houses were cheap. Uncles worked their asses off and bought rows of houses. They are selling them now and moving to nicer areas or leaving the UK. Recent immigrants dont have that luxury.

As long as we don't overdo it or treat langar in Gurughars as some kind of restaurant system. I knew someone who use to rate (as in a scale of quality) the langar of Gurughars in his local town, and he'd turn up just to eat --- with his mother, wife and kids in tow. He did no seva, and there was no interest in what's going on upstairs in the Darbar. It was just to eat. To him it was like a holy buffet.

The guys over in Panjab who watch their fathers and uncles do the hardcore kethi whilst they partake in masti with their "yaar anmule" are cheeky beggars! Yes, dalsingh is spot-on when he says that when they sniff a chance at an opportunity to go abroad then suddenly they develop a previously gupt sense of humility and a strong work ethic where any job will do as long as it's in a foreign country, lol! WSL is also similarly spot-on when he identifies the folk from this country who give it large when they return home. The ladies may scrub toilets in Heathrow but those same ladies weigh themselves down with gold jewellery as they strut their stuff at the local bazaar. Yet for all their supposed street-smarts our brethren from back home have a blind spot for seeing through this facade. You'd think they almost don't want to know the truth, lest it shatters some flimsly-held beliefs that aren't based in reality. Also, why on earth do they put sportswear stickers on cars? What's that about? The last time I went I saw some pretty decent vehicles covered with adidas and Nike adornments. In what world does that even make sense?

I guess some kind of modification of their DNA before "hatching" them in order to introduce docility or obedience to a master might work. But you have to ensure it doesn't rob them of their natural tendency to be aggressive or even kill. Because there's not a chance in heck you'll be able to break it in like you would a dog, lol. Deary me, where did the above come from? Why am I even thinking along those lines? :lol2: If we're taking flghts of fancy I wouldn't personally rear them for riding purposes. I'd train them almost like a kill squad; send them into an area to take out a large number of lightly-armed, unsuspecting enemy combatants, i.e. a Panjabi police station. Can you imagine the filthy language to come out of the mouth of a Panjabi cop when he's faced with a raptor? :nono: Those idiots won't be able to torture and abuse anyone if they've been ripped to pieces by a raptor befofrehand. But then the real problem would be how would you gather up and get the raptors back to base? They may just wander off into towns and cities if there's not a system to bring them in once the job is done. :blush2: I need a lie down. I'm putting too much thought into this.

It's actually truly sad! But there are people in Punjab who still don't actually believe in this all when you tell them. BBC iplayer isn't accessible from outside the U.K. If anybody from India or so wants to watch it, it's on youtube as well.

Do you know structure of charitropakhyan? if so tell us otherwise stop writing nonsense here about a subject that you do not know. Charitrpakhayan is for Gurmukh yogis and not manmukh bhogis.

Their aim is to create a separate "Ravidassa" religion. Their slogan is "We are Not Sikh, we are Ravidassia" They have gone to every Ravidassia Gurdwara in the UK over the last couple of years and did a salesmanship job on why Sikhi is bad. They have been very effective as:- 1) Ravidassia finally got recognised as a religion in the 2011 census. 2) The new religion officially now has over 11,000 UK adherents. 3) In our local Ravidassi Gurdwara even the committee were heard arguing, 50% saying we are Ravidassia's, the others saying we are Sikhs. The main issue is that all their arguments are based on lies and manipulation. They are also very active in non Sikh local and national groups, and they defame Sikhs wherever and whenever possible. With the whole aim of making us look like extremists. So whats the solution:- 1) Do camps at Ravidassia Gurdwara's and spread the true message of Sikhi to any disillusioned Ravidassia youth. 2) Do more regular Sangat with the, 3) Build good relations with the committees etc

there is a lot of bitterness in the Ravidasia community, between themselves and Sikhs, and between themsleves as well, as the Ravidasiya Granth has not been accepted and has actually driven a wedege beteen their community. I can understand their anger a little, we just need to use examples of our own to realise, but i would definitely support some kind of intitiative where both community's can meet and talk and at least try to build bridges of communication if not friendship.

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Seeing as alot of people post in the gupt section about ways to conquer kaam, I thought this sakhi might help: The Emperor said to Satguru Sri Guru Har Gobind Sahib Ji Maharaj, 'You are a very young man. Many beautiful women come to see you. It is extremely hard to subdue youthful passions. How do you O True King succeed in doing so?' Satguru Ji said, 'Dear Brother, there was once a very religious and chaste man who had conquered his passions. A lewd and adulterous king used to wait on this man. The saint once asked him what desire he sought to gratify by his attention to him. The King replied, 'I am a lustful man. I ever desire sexual pleasures and the gratification of all my desires.' The Saint replied, 'Because of this enjoyment you have only eight more days of your life to live, which you may enjoy as you please. On the ninth day you will surely die.' The King, was very worried and asked the saint if there was anything that he could do to avert his fate. The Saint replied, 'Meditate on the name of Waheguru.' The King, left the saint and hurried home..... He abandoned all worldly affairs, and so applied himself to devotion of the name of Waheguru so that all impure desires left his mind. The ninth day came, and the King went to the Saint and informed him of how he had spent his time since their last meeting. The saint then said, that his life was saved by the power of his devotion and then asked him how he had abandoned sensuality. The King replied, that it was through the fear of impending death.... The saint smiled, looked at the king and said, 'that is an answer to the question you asked. That is the way to avert your fate. You thought that you will die in eight days, so no evil desires entered your mind, while as for myself, I am not certain that that death will not come and seize me at any moment. On this account my mind is unswayed by passion.' Satguru Ji then said, O Emperor Jahangir, there is no reliance to be placed on death; it comes like a thief when we expect it not to come. If a man had information, he would not allow things to be stolen from his house. Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj, the king of kings, and the saint of saints has said, Waheguru Ji :wub: :wub: Dhan Dhan Satguru Sri Guru Har Gobind Sahib Ji Maharaj, the king of kings and the saint of saints :wub: WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

First thing first, I am not against any jatha or samparda nor i m against any sant mahapursh/bhai sahib/prof/dr/gursikhs/senior gurmukhs who put panth at first. But with that being said, i am vehemently against any idea which promotes cultish tendacies/individual cultish perception (be it from youths, grown ups) which super imposes itself on the panth. I am sure humkire sahib ji can contribute on to this thread as this something i can agree with him totally. Personally speaking, I used to be quite cultish 5-6 years ago, i used to box the khalsa panth into a tunnel, made my own little idea/world of khalsa panth in my specific case was nanaksar and anything outside of nanaksar didn't pay any attention for eg- anything outside of teaching of baba nand singh ji maharaj regarding gurbani. My yard stick to measure an authenticity of gurbani regarding sri dasam granth and sri sarbloh granth was soley based on to see if baba nand singh maharaj quoted it and if he did - accept it fully while didn't pay attention to other compositions. There wasn't or isn't anything wrong with nanaksar or baba nand singh ji maharaj or samparda or jatha itself but everything was wrong with "my cultish perception" which boxed khalsa panth into tunnel vision seeing khalsa panth via nanaksar/googles of nanaksar. Then I looked into amish/mormon/ jevoh witness type of followers and studied them, as jevoh witness came to our house few times to do their parchar and everytime they would come- i would be quite pissed at them but reality sanked in- i was shocked that despite of jevoh witness different belief system than us. Jevoh Witness followers and I have very similar things in common which was "cultish perception". But as they say, even oppositions can give people reality checks and i am living example of it..!!, things start changing slowly where i opened up my horizon slightly- smell more beauty of diversity flowers around me. Now thanks to maharaj, i consider myself quite lucky my cultish perception was destroyed by maharaj himself and i could see panth at times from 360 degree angle specially when i am contemplating/self reflecting on things. Surely jatha and samparda's in the panth- be it akj, taksal, nirmale, udasi, sevapanthis, nihangs, soho rd- niskham seva jatha, 3ho dodra are all essential and its there to help to motivate someone in khalsa panth, they are all needed. We cannot do rejection or favor one over another but we need to be extremely careful when jatha/samparda's becomes driving force in one's individual sikhi rather than gurbani- kirtan, katha, patt, simran/meditation and seva. I too also need to be careful in parchar regarding jatha and samparda so that i don't villify their followers as reverse villify them is just as bad (another extreme) but i do think perception is everything- one could be still in jatha or taksal is still be quite open minded in diversity and vice versa. Nothing needs to changed in the jatha, samparda or maryada or anything in khalsa panth but only individual's perception of looking at things, perceiving things. I will end by very shocking quote i got from facebook which lead me honestly start this topic. Again not villifying any specific jatha or samparda's- cultish taksalis are just as bad where bhramgyani baba thakur singh ji barsi program overshadow inadvertently sahibzadais' shahedi divas instead of striking a right balance, cultish mentality is human problem cannot be tied to specific group or jatha. Anyway here is quote from an individual which lead me to open this new topic: http://www.facebook.com/hargurus Ironically enough, i had a same perception as this individual 5-6 years ago but by maharaj kirpa things have changed for me, this is classic example what we need to refrain from, i don't want people to make same mistakes like i did wasted years of my life..!!

Rehatnama Bhai Prahlad Singh Ji The 10th Master, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Taken from http://www.nihangsingh.org/blog/ While staying at Abchal Nagar in Maharashtra, before returning to the Abode of Truth (Sach Khand) Guru Gobind Singh Ji spoke the following to the royal court attendant (Hazoori Sevak) Bhai Prahlad Singh Ji. ਹੁਕਮ ਹੋਆ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖ ਵਾਕ ਪਾ:੧੦ ਲਾਲ ਦਰਿਆਈ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਥਾਇ Command from the mouth of the Tenth King. Conversation with Bhai Lal Dariaie (of the Udasi’s) ਦੋਹਰਾ Dohra ਅਬਚਲ ਨਗਰ ਬੈਠੇ ਗੁਰੂ, ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਕੀਆ ਬੀਚਾਰ The Guru was sitting at Abchal Nagar (Sri Hazoor Sahib), the thought entered his mind. ਬੋਲਿਆ ਪੂਰਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ, ਕਰਿ ਨਮਸਕਾਰ ਕਰਤਾਰ । ੧ । The perfect True Guru spoke, saluting the creator Lord. ਹੁਕਮ ਹੋਯਾ ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਬਿਪ੍ਰ ਜਾਤ ਹੰਸਰਾਇ Calling for Bhai Prahlad Singh, from the lineage of Hansrai. ਨਿਕਟ ਬੁਲਾਯਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ, ਲੀਨਉ ਕੰਠ ਲਗਾਇ । ੨ । Coming near Guru Ji, he was embraced. ਪੰਥ ਚਲਯੋ ਹੈ ਜਗਤ ਮੈਂ ਗੁਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ The (Khalsa) Panth has been brought to this world by the grace of Guru Nanak. ਰਹਿਤ ਬਤਾਈੲ ਖਾਲਸੇ, ਸੁਣ ਭਾਈ ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦ । ੩ । O’ Bhai Prahlad Singh, listen to the code of conduct for the Khalsa. ਚੌਪਈ Chaupai ਹੋਇ ਸਿਖ ਸਿਰ ਟੋਪੀ ਧਰੈ । ਸਾਤ ਜਨਮ ਕੁਸ਼ਟੀ ਹੁਇ ਮਰੈ If a Sikh wears a hat, he shall suffer through seven life times as a leper. ਜੋ ਸਿਖ ਗਲ ਮਹਿ ਤਾਗਾ ਮੇਲੈ । ਚੌਪੜ ਬਾਜ਼ੀ ਗਨਿਕਾ ਖੇਲੈ । ੪ । The Sikh who wears the Hindu thread around his neck, gambles or visits a prostitute, ਜਨਮ ਸੁਆਨ ਪਾਵੈਗਾ ਕੋਟਿ । ਬੀਜਯੋ ਹਾਥ ਬੁਰਾ ਇਸ ਖੋਟ Shall be born as a dog a hundred thousand times, for the evil seed produces evil fruit. ਪਾਗ ਉਤਾਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਜੋ ਖਾਵੈ । ਸੋ ਸਿਖ ਕੁੰਭੀ ਨਰਕ ਸਿਧਾਵੈ । ੫ । The Sikh who removes his turban while eating, goes to the worst of hells. ਦੋਹਰਾ Dohra ਮੀਣਾ ਔਰ ਮਸੰਦੀਆ, ਮੋਨਾ ਕੁੜੀ ਜੋ ਮਾਰ The Sikh who has dealings with the Mina’s, Masand’s, those who cut their hair or kill their daughter’s, ਹੋਇ ਸਿਖ ਵਰਤਨ ਕਰਹਿ ਅੰਤ ਕਰੇਗਾ ਖੁਆਰ । ੬ । shall at their end suffer greatly. ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਕੇ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਬਿਨ ਜਪੈ ਅਉਰ ਕੋਈ ਜਾਪ Do not meditate on any other mantar besides Vaheguru, ਸੋ ਸਾਕਤ, ਸਿਖ ਮੂਲ ਨਹਿ , ਬਾਚਤ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖ ਆਪ । ੭ । That faithless person is not a Sikh, this is the command from the Guru’s mouth. ਮੇਰਉ ਹੁਕਮ ਮਾਨਹਿ ਨਹੀਂ, ਕਰਹਿ ਨ ਸਿਖ ਕੀ ਸੇਵ They who do not follow my command’s and does not serve the Sikhs, ਸੋ ਬੀਰਜ ਮਲੇਛ ਕੋ, ਪਰਗਟ ਪਛਾਨਹੁ ਭੇਵ । ੮ । Recognise that person as an unbeliever (of the Guru). ਚੌਪਈ Chaupai ਹੁਕਮ ਦੇਖਿ ਕਾਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਰਾਖੈ । ਗੋਲਕ ਗੋਪ ਮਿਥਿਆ ਮੁਖ ਭਾਖੈ Those who recognise my commands, but does not follow them and takes money from the Guru’s golak for their own false needs, ਕਾਰ ਭੇਟ ਸੁਖ ਮੰਨਤ ਚੁਰਾਵੈ । ਐਸਾ ਸਿਖ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਹਿ ਭਾਵੈ । ੯ । The offerings have been presented in hopes of happiness. Those who take the the offerings are not Sikhs. (Those who steal from the Guru’s golaks are not Sikhs). ਤੂਟ ਪਰਿਓ ਮਾਇਆ ਕੀ ਫਾਸੀ । ਭ੍ਰਮਤਾ ਫਿਰੈ ਲਾਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀ Those caught in the net of Maya, are wandering through the 8.4 million life forms. ਸੋ ਬੀਰਜ ਮਲੇਛ ਕੋ ਜਾਨ । ਸੁਣ ਭਾਈ ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦ ਸੁਜਾਨ । ੧੦ । Realise the evil seeds of the faithless, listen O’ Bhai Prahlad Singh. ਗੁਰੂ ਖਾਲਸੇ ਆਦਿ ਲੋਂ ਜੋ ਪਾਲੈ ਜਗ ਮੋਹ Those who have been born a Khalsa of the Guru but is still entangled in attachment, ਸੋ ਸਾਕਤ ਨਰਕੀ ਸਦਾ, ਇਨ ਸੇ ਕਰੈ ਜੋ ਧ੍ਰੋਹ । ੧੧ । They are bound for hell, they only commit evil. ਸੂਹੇ ਅੰਬਰ ਪਹਿਨ ਕਰ, ਜੋ ਨਾਸੇ ਨਸਵਾਰ The Sikh who wears red, or uses tobacco ਲਗੇ ਤਾੜਨਾ ਸੀਸ ਪਰ, ਸੁਨੀਏ ਨਰਕ ਮੰਝਾਰ । ੧੨ । They will be beaten on their head and are headed towards hell. ਬਿਨਾ ਜਪੁ ਜਾਪੁ ਜਪੇ, ਜੋ ਜੋਵਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ They who eat without reciting Japji Sahib and Jaap Sahib (Nitnem), ਸੋ ਬਿਸਟਾ ਕਾ ਕਿਰਮ ਹੁਇ, ਜਨਮ ਗਵਾਵੈ ਬਾਦ । ੧੩ । Are no better then waste and are ruining their lives. ਚੌਪਈ Chaupai ਪ੍ਰਾਤਾ ਕਾਲ ਗੁਰ ਗੀਤ ਨ ਗਾਵੈ । ਰਹਿਰਾਸ ਬਿਨਾ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਜੋ ਖਾਵੈ They are not Sikhs, those who do not sing the Guru’s songs, and eat without reciting Rehras. ਬਾਹਰਮੁਖੀ ਸਿਖ ਤਿਸ ਜਾਨੋ । ਸਭ ਮਿਥਿਆ ਤਿਸ ਮਾਨੋ । ੧੪ । Recognise them as false Sikhs, all their actions are false. ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀ ਭ੍ਰਮਤਾ ਫਿਰੈ । ਬਾਰ ਬਾਰ ਜਗ ਜਨਮੈ ਮਰੇ They will be stuck in the cycle of 8.4 million life forms, going through birth and death again and again. ਗੁਰੂ ਬਚਨ ਸਿਉ ਤੂਟਾ ਜਾਇ । ਦਰਗਹਿ ਤਾਂਕਉ ਮਿਲੈ ਸਜਾਇ । ੧੫ । Those who do not follow the commands of the Guru, will not find the court of the Lord. ਦੋਹਰਾ Dohra ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਕਉ ਛਾਡ ਕਰਿ, ਭਜੈ ਦੇਵ ਕੋਈ ਅਉਰ They who leave Akaal Purkh, and start to worship Hindu deities, ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਭ੍ਰਮਤਾ ਫਿਰਹਿ, ਲਹਹਿ ਨ ਸੁਖ ਕੀ ਠਉਰ । ੧੬ । They will wander through birth after birth, and will never find true peace. ਪਾਹਨ ਕੀ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰੈ, ਸਿਖ ਨ ਨਿਵਾਵਹਿ ਸੀਸ They who do idol worship and do not treat another Sikh with respect, ਸੋ ਸਾਕਤ ਨਿਗੁਰਾ ਸਦਾ, ਮਾਰਿਆ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਜਗਦੀਸ । ੧੭ । That person is forever without a Guru, and is destroyed by the Lord of the world. ਕਰੀ ਥਾਪਨਾ ਜਾਸ ਕੀ, ਮੋਹ ਜੁ ਅਪਨੇ ਹਾਥਿ Those who claim to be equal to the creation made by the Guru’s hands ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਸਮਸਰ ਜੋ ਕਰੈ, ਜਰ ਜਾਵਹਿ ਕੁਲ ਸਾਥਿ । ੧੮ । They will suffer for this mistake, along with their companions (followers). ਕਾਰ ਭੇਟ ਸੁਖ ਮੰਨਤ ਕਰ, ਜੋ ਸਿਖ ਚਿਤ ਭ੍ਰਮਾਇ The Sikh who promises to make an offering, but does not follow through, ਸੋ ਸਾਕਤ ਪਾਪੀ ਸਦਾ, ਬਿਕਟ ਰੂਪ ਹੋਇ ਜਾਇ । ੧੯ । They will forever be a faithless sinner, in the most horrible form. ਕੁੜੀਮਾਰ ਮਸੰਦ ਜੋ, ਮੀਣੇ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ By accepting food for those who kill their daughters, the Masand’s and Mina’s ਲਏ ਜੁ ਇਨ ਕੇ ਹਾਥ ਕਾ, ਜਨਮ ਗਵਾਵਹਿ ਬਾਦ । ੨੦ । Eating from their hands, is a waste of the human birth. ਛਾਡ ਸਿਖਨ ਕੇ ਚਰਨ ਕਉ, ਲਏ ਪੰਥ ਜੋ ਅਉਰ Those who leave the holy feet of Sikhi and follow another panth, ਐਥਹਿ ਓਥਹਿ ਦੁਖ ਲਹੈ, ਗੁਰ ਸਿਖਨ ਕੋ ਚੋਰ । ੨੧ । Finds pain here and hereafter. This is the fate of those who betray the Guru. ਚੌਪਈ Chaupai ਮੜੀ ਗੋਰ ਦੇਵਲ ਜੋ ਮਾਨੈ, ਪਰ ਪੰਥਨ ਕੋ ਊਚ ਬਖਾਨੈ They who worship at cremation grounds, tombs, or idols, or who promotes a misled path, ਸੋ ਸਾਕਤ ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਿਖ ਨਾਹੀ । ਫਾਸਿ ਪਰਯੋ ਜਮ ਕੰਕਰ ਪਾਹੀ । ੨੨ । They are faithless and are not a Sikh of the Guru, they are caught in the noose of death. ਟੋਪੀ ਦੇਖਿ ਨਿਵਾਵਹਿ ਸੀਸ । ਸੋ ਸਿਖ ਨਰਕੀ ਬਿਸਵੈ ਬੀਸ They who salute someone wearing a hat (Muslim Imam), they are destined to hell. ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰੈ । ਸੋ ਸਿਖ ਬੰਸ ਸਗਲ ਲੇ ਤਰੈ । ੨੩ । Serve the Immortal Being, and carry your family across the ocean of life. ਦੋਹਰਾ Dohra ਗੁਰੂ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਮਾਨੀਅਹਿ, ਪਰਗਟ ਗੁਰੂ ਕੀ ਦੇਹ Accept the Khalsa as the Guru, this is the Guru’s body. ਜੋ ਸਿਖ ਮੋ ਮਿਲਬੇ ਚਹਿਹ, ਖੋਜ ਇਨਹੁ ਮਹਿ ਲੇਹੁ । ੨੪ । Those Sikhs looking to find me, will see me in the midst of the Khalsa. ਕਾਨ ਕਟੇ ਅਰ ਤੁਰਕ ਕਾ, ਕਰੈ ਨ ਮੂਲ ਵਿਸਾਹੁ Do not place faith in the Kanpatt Yogi, or in the Muslims, ਜੋ ਸਿਖ ਸੋਂ ਹਿਤ ਨ ਕਰਹਿ, ਸੋ ਨਰਕੇ ਪਰਿ ਜਾਹੁ । ੨੫ । That Sikh who doesn’t have faith in their heart, is destined for hell. ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ, ਰਸਨਾ ਰਟਹਿ ਜੋ ਹੋਰ The hymns of the Guru’s contains the nectar, you won’t find it any where else, ਸੋ ਮਾਰਿਆ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਕਾ, ਪੜਾ ਨਰਕ ਮਧ ਘੋਰ । ੨੬ । Being destroyed by the creator, you are destined for hell. ਚੌਪਈ Chaupai ਛੇ ਦਰਸਨ ਕੀ ਜੋ ਮਤ ਧਾਰੈ । ਕੁਲ ਸੰਬੂਹ ਲੈ ਨਰਕ ਸਿਧਾਰੈ They who put faith in the six darshans of the Hindu’s are headed to hell with their descendants. ਬਾਝਹੁ ਗੁਰ ਸਿਖਨ ਕਰੇ ਸੇਵਾ । ਮਿਥਿਆ ਮਾਨੋ ਸੁਰ ਨਰ ਦੇਵਾ । ੨੭ । Perform the seva of the Guru’s Sikhs, not the service of Gods, Goddess and false idols. ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੀ ਮੂਰਤ ਏਹ । ਪਰਗਟ ਅਕਾਲ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਦੇਵ This is the visible image of the Immortal Being, the form of the Khalsa. ਯਾਮੇਂ ਰੰਚ ਮਿਥਿਆ ਨਹਿ ਭਾਖੀ । ਗੁਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰ ਅੰਗਦ ਸਾਖੀ । ੨੮ । Nothing that has been spoken is false, Guru Nanak Dev Ji and Guru Angad Dev Ji bear witness. ਦੋਹਰਾ Dohra ਲੈਣਾ ਦੇਣਾ ਖਾਲਸੇ, ਆਨ ਦੇਵ ਸਭ ਝੂਠ Receive and give to the Khalsa, to give to idols is false. ਅਉਰ ਦੇਵ ਇਵ ਮਾਨੀਏ, ਜਿਉਂ ਬਾਰੂ ਕੀ ਮੂਠ । ੨੯ । It is like sand running through your fingers. ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੇ ਬਚਨ ਸਿਉਂ, ਪਰਗਟ ਚਲਾਯੋ ਪੰਥ From the command of Akaal Purkh, has this path (Sikhi) appeared. ਸਭ ਸਿਖਨ ਕੋ ਬਚਨ ਹੈ, ਗੁਰੂ ਮਾਨੀਅਹੁ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ । ੩੦ । The command for all the Sikhs is to accept the Granth Sahib as your Guru. ਥਾਪ ਚਲਯੋ ਜੋ ਜਗਤ ਮੈਂ ਤਿਨਹਿ ਨਿਵਾਵਉ ਮਾਥ It has been delivered to the world, and all should salute the Granth (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji). ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਕੇ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਬਿਨ, ਮਿਥਿਆ ਸਾਰੀ ਗਾਥ । ੩੧ । Without the Vaheguru mantar, all singing is false. ਸਿਖ ਕਉ ਸਿਖ ਜਉ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਦੀਨਾ । ਕੋਟਿ ਅਸੁਮੈਧ ਜਗ ਫਲ ਕੀਨਾ When the Sikhs initiate another Sikh with Amrit, the blessings are more then thousands of Hindu horse sacrifices (Asumaidh). ਜੋ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਿਖ ਗਾਵੈ । ਜੀਵਨ ਮੁਕਤ ਪਦਾਰਥ ਪਾਵੈ । ੩੨ । Those Sikhs who sing the Guru’s hymns, they find liberation while still alive. ਚਾਪੀ ਕਰੋ ਮਲਹਿ ਸਿਖ ਚਰਨਾ । ਤਿਸ ਸਿਖ ਕੋ ਮੈਂ ਲੀਨੋ ਸਰਨਾ The Sikh, who massages the feet of another Sikh, I take that Sikh into my sanctuary. ਕਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਸਿਖ ਮੁਖ ਪਾਵੈ । ਤਿਸ ਸਿਖ ਪੈ ਗੁਰ ਵਾਰਨੇ ਜਾਵੈ । ੩੩ । The Sikh who feeds another Sikh, also goes to the Guru’s fraternity. ਰਹਿਰਾਸ ਸਮੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੁਕਮ ਕੋ, ਪਢਹਿ ਪ੍ਰੀਤ ਸਤ ਭਾਉ This is the command of the Guru, recite Rehras with true love in your heart, ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਸਹਿਤ ਰਸਨਾ ਰਟਹਿ, ਪਰਗਟ ਮਿਲਹਿ ਮੁਹਿ ਆਉ । ੩੪ । They who recite it with love, will meet the Guru this way. ਬਚਨ ਪ੍ਰਤੀਤ ਰਖਹਿ ਸਿਖ ਜੋਈ । ਤੈਸੋ ਹੀ ਫਲ ਪਰਾਪਤ ਹੋਈ The Sikh who keeps love for the Guru’s command, will reap the fruit of this. ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਬਚਨ ਗੁਰੂ ਕੀ ਮੂਰਤ, ਭੁਗਤ ਮੁਕਤ ਵਰ ਸਾਚੋ ਪੂਰਤ । ੩੫ । The Guru’s teachings is the Guru’s form, from this receive all pleasures, liberation and desires. ਰਹਿਣੀ ਰਹਹਿ ਸੋਈ ਸਿਖ ਮੇਰਾ, ਵਹ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਮੈਂ ਉਸ ਕਾ ਚੇਰਾ That Sikh who lives the code of conduct is my Sikh, They are my Master, I am their disciple. ਕਰਹਿ ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੀ ਆਸਾ । ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਕਟ ਡਾਰੈ ਫਾਸਾ । ੩੬ । Place your faith in the Immortal Being, the noose of birth and death will be cut. ਸਤਿ ਅਕਾਲ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ, ਧਰਮ ਬੀਜ ਯਹ ਮੰਤ The true Immortal Being, Sri Vaheguru, is the root mantar of all righteousness. ਸਰਬ ਜਾਪ ਕਉ ਜਾਪੁ ਇਹ, ਕਹਿਓ ਆਦਿ ਅਰ ਅੰਤ । ੩੭ । Reciting and meditating on all mantars is contained in this (Vaheguru Mantar), spoken from the beginning till the end of time. ਸੰਬਤ ਸਤ੍ਰਹ ਸੈ ਭਏ, ਬਰਖ ਬਵੰਜਾ ਨਿਹਾਰ Sambat 1752 has arrived ਮਾਘ ਵਦੀ ਥਿਤਿ ਪੰਚਮੀ, ਰਵਿਵਾਰ ਸੁਭ ਵਾਰ । ੩੮ । Sunday, the fifth day of the dark half of the month of Magh. The spot where Guru Gobind Singh Ji left for the heavenly abode at Takht Sri Hazoor Sahib, Abchal Nagar

When ever I do a joora and tie a patka, half my head is exposed from the back. It is very embarrassing and people go out of their way to tease me. I have seen videos on how to tie it but nothing is working out. My mum deliberately goes out of her way to pick fights with me randomly over this issue. Can anyone please tell me how to tie the patka properly.

Has anyone else come across the Ravidassia Times account on twitter? Recently one of their posts have been outlining the rise of "Khalistani Sikhs" and how the "Ravidassia Community" is in danger from such "fanatics". One of their tweets is below: Ravidassia Times ‏@RavidassiaTimes Why we dont support Khalistan? the Sikh Taliban are on the rise - WATCH - Imagine our people's treament? http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=62e_1356288681 … via @liveleak

There has been a report of high level of robberies by mainly black gangs of Indian Gold. Though the robbers are blacks, Indian Jewllers also have a signitfance hand in all this., to the extent where they organize the robberies. The black gangs rob people of their gold and sell to Indian Jewellers who then melt it down so it cant be traced and sell it back to the community. Banks are also involved, there was a time when our people would keep gold in bank for safety. Not anymore , bank employees also steal the gold from the bank. Not many banks are keeping gold for safety, they want it in houses or worn on the street where it can be robbed. The above has been confirmed by Punjabi WPC officer in the UK, that this is going on, and has confirmed it to us thaht THEY ALL IN IT TOGETHER. i have also been the victim of one of the above an immediate family of both black robbers and bank operatives stealing gold. Advice is if you keep hold it must be the bear minimum, or sell it or use money somewhere else like investment or go vist somewhere where you've never been like USA.

Wow if this is true then that family is really selfish. They can keep the pothis, atleast let the panth make copies of the pothis so they can learn from them. I bet there are many such families who are keeping such treasures secret.

baba ji says the family lives in the UK. baba ji says these kinds of items belong to the Sikh Panth not to any individual person or family, this goes the same for the Kartarpur Bir. click on the katha baba ji expliens it.

ghar jaake fer paaunga

My view is this guy should be stopped from doing parchar. He continues to cause trouble. As a Panthic minded peron if you know that your presence at a Gurdwara will cause trouble and if you don't go there will be no trouble surely you would not go. Surely you would put the Panth first. He chooses to go and stir up more ppl. This guy is not thinking about doing good for the Panth. As a parcharak your role should be to unite ppl and create pyar amongst Sangat.

To answer the question of the high court i would say that this country only knows 1 way and that is to try and silence voices of truth. They will beat protesters (sometimes even shoot at them )and have no come back on them or they will totally silence the voice of protestors by shuting off roads. It is not a democratic country. India should not be allowed to sit and have views in the UN.

tut tut. naughty boy. I'll stick to fairy tales thank you very much. I might start wearing a purple/orange one to school. I have the chance to be different and they look pretty awesome.

I funded myself through uni by working in warehouses - for Panjabis who aren't exactly 'on point' when it comes to workers rights (but I still had fun and appreciate how those days taught me so much). I'm well educated, but I still do stints on building sites (because I'm a man like that). We know your father/grandfather (??) sucked up to some British ex-military type to get work in some factory or would have ended up scrubbing toilets in Heathrow or minicab driving like other unskilled hogis. I've worked with the older generation on sites and witnessed the trade myself growing up as the majority of work for Sikhs in East London was construction in the 70s/80s. Your family had to leave this area because they didn't have the skills to stick around and moved to West London (your own admissions). Plus I've worked with todays freshies in Sikh firms. To make out that old schoolers had it easy just highlights you how ignorant you are. They worked 7 days a week, including evenings. On sites in the day and private work at night. That's how they got set up here. Again if you think that is easy, it says a lot about you. And despite all of your rantings about the established generation here, I see relatively recently arrived faujis who've established themselves in a few years (lucky them) turn around and abuse the hell out of a next fauji they hire ALL THE TIME. They are ALL jat, so maybe they are just doing what they are culturally accustomed to doing to 'village menials' amongst themselves now? The big thing people like to ignore here is how our own people are too damn ignorant to learn a trade over there, BEFORE they 'bootha chuck' and smuggle their unskilled selves here. They ALL know they will probably be doing construction work here but are to damn lazy, ignorant, jumped up to learn a trade before they jump on the boat or the back of a lorry. Explain that stupidity!

I tell you what plays a big part in this! This imagined 'greatness' to many pindus have where they believe they are 'sons of the lord of the manor' and thus beneath doing such work back home. But they'll come here and work like dogs in cement no problem. Lack of humility can be an issue. And this is yet another consequence of filling ignorant people's heads up with illusions of grandeur which are far removed from the truth/reality.

Bobby Friction, for all his previous faults and comments he has made, should in this regard be commended. I for one applaud him for taking this watershed moment in UK bhangra. Love him or loath him, he is a BBC Asian Network DJ with a degree of influence. If other radio DJ's follow his example, this could indeed be the start of something. http://www.chakdey.com/bobby-friction-challenges-bhangra-artists-by-refusing-to-play-their-music/ "I now challenge all other Radio/DJ's who play Asian & Desi music accross the world...Stop playing music that glorifies the caste system". "Bhangra, or the Bhangra scene will not die/fade out etc as some of you are saying...It will evolve". "To those who think Caste is OK or not responsible for hate or segregation then I say read the newspapers from India & do some research. To those who complain & say its gonna stop Bhangra being played I say you dont know Bhangra. 90% of Bhangra trax dont mention caste already" "I completely 100% stand by what I say.x From 31st August 2012 I will not play any tracks that mention caste on the FRICTION show."

And that's being used as a justification for police shooting him to death?

I had nightmares for weeks after watching Jurassic Park as a little kid. I hate dinosaurs. Dead-eyed beasts. They belong in the past so we should leave them there. They've had their time.

There were real nihangs such as Jathedar Sant Baba Nihal Singh Jee who stood up for the 1984 crap , he was tied from his feet and dragged around punjab by a jeep. he still has the scars to prove this , if you look at sant ji's speeches baba jee is there . http://www.nihangsingh.org/blog/?p=773<<<< here are other example of other nihangs taking part in the morcha, Buddha dal's jathedar baba santa singh jee didn't give his army permission to take part in the morcha or jang because it was a "political matter" , many b.dal singhs left the dal and went against his hukam to fight. alot of Bidhi Chand Dal singhs went and fought aswell such as Avtar Singh Bhrama , there is even a blue nishaan raised in his memory by Bidhi Chand Dal... Don't paint everyone with the same brush, such nihangs as Akali Phoola Singh , Akali Baba Deep Singh , Akali Gurbash Singh etc were all great Nihang singhs ! , Even Guru Gobind Singh , the Char Sahibzade all fore farleh! there is even a gurdwara where Akali Baba Fateh Singh jee tied his Farla , name Dhumalaghar sahib in Anandpur Sahib . yeah most nihangs dont do crap , but they do alot more bani,seva &sevathan 90% of the users on here including me. and live in rehat , bana everyday etc i don't see you doing anything they do? so cut the crap yeah most maybe busy getting high... but most are nangs ( fake nihangs) real nihang singhs have always stood the test of time and fight when they are needed.... THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK , what have you done for the panth? oh that's right sit on sikhsangat and cuss people who you think haven't done anything. let akaal purakh be the judge and leave your ego behind the door. akaal sahai.

sometimes it's easier to do swas swas simran after reading a shabad about it. any shabad about it can be quite helpful.

I caught this earlier today and was shocked at what I came to learn. I bow my head to SWAT for their seva for sure.

Sikh community leader Hans Singh dies aged 87Original Link http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-20881472 Hans Singh campaigned for the rights of Scottish Sikhs. Scottish Sikh community leader Hans Singh has died at the age of 87. Mr Singh, from Glasgow, was a major force behind the opening of the country's first Sikh temple. He also successfully campaigned for Sikhs to be exempt from having to wear motorcycle helmets while they were wearing a turban. Mr Singh, who is survived by his wife Parsin Kaur and three of their four children, died peacefully on Christmas Day. A mathematics graduate from the Punjab University Lahore, he and his wife settled in Glasgow in 1948 after emigrating from Armritsar in India. He was a prominent figure within the Sikh community, and was secretary of the Guru Granth Sahib Gurdwara in Nithsdale Road for 15 years. During that time Mr Singh campaigned on issues including the right to raise the Sikh flag, the Nishan Sahib, outside temples. In 1962, he represented Glasgow Sikhs at a meeting with Indian Prime Minister Nehru during his visit to Scotland. In the 1960s and 70s, he was involved in the campaign against a ban on wearing turbans at work and while riding motorbikes. As a result, legislation was introduced which means that Sikhs who wear turbans do not need to wear crash helmets when they ride motorbikes or scooters. His son Ranbir said his father was "much loved" had been "very proud" to serve his community.

how to tie a patka. or, just do a keski. Its a small pagh that is warm and comfortable. also looks better

I'm feeling that last post!

Great post. With that said for some reason it's much easier for people to abuse this truth about Sikhi and go too far left and promote manmat/use that logic to justify their own shortcomings. I think the best thing to do is to keep Sikhi personal and focus on our own jeevans and be inspired by people who practice Sikhi and have higher jeevan than ourselves. When we begin to preach stuff that even we don't practice it simply becomes empty dogma. On one side of the extreme spectrum you have people who say only Sikhs who have taken Amrit can go to Sachkhand and it's reserved only for Sikhs and the other side of the extreme are people who say that anyone can go to Sachkhand you just have to do some good deeds and don't need bhagti and don't need SatGuru Maharaj. The answer isn't black and white like people try to point it out to be, each person has their own voyage and the ultimate truth for a Sikh is that we have a Guru and through Gurprasad and Simran we can merge back into Waheguru. This Gurbani comes to mind: Bgqw kI cwl inrwlI ] bhuguthaa kee chaal niraalee || The lifestyle of the devotees is unique and distinct. cwlw inrwlI Bgqwh kyrI ibKm mwrig clxw ] chaalaa niraalee bhuguthaah kaeree bikhum maarag chulunaa || The devotees' lifestyle is unique and distinct; they follow the most difficult path. lbu loBu AhMkwru qij iqRsnw bhuqu nwhI bolxw ] lub lobh ahu(n)kaar thaj thrisunaa buhuth naahee bolunaa || They renounce greed, avarice, egotism and desire; they do not talk too much. KMinAhu iqKI vwlhu inkI eyqu mwrig jwxw ] khu(n)niahu thikhee vaaluhu nikee eaeth maarag jaanaa || The path they take is sharper than a two-edged sword, and finer than a hair. gur prswdI ijnI Awpu qijAw hir vwsnw smwxI ] gur purusaadhee jinee aap thajiaa har vaasunaa sumaanee || By Guru's Grace, they shed their selfishness and conceit; their hopes are merged in the Lord. khY nwnku cwl Bgqw jughu jugu inrwlI ]14] kehai naanuk chaal bhuguthaa juguhu jug niraalee ||14|| Says Nanak, the lifestyle of the devotees, in each and every age, is unique and distinct

I too am vehemently against such tendencies. I've stated before, one of the most profound things that weaned me away from this was an interaction with dasmesh pita's Akaal Ustat, which uncompromisingly tears apart any notion of Waheguru or dharam being somehow 'owned' or solely belonging to any particular group/faith. I come from a Singh Sabha background myself in terms of literary influences and interpretations of faith and used to be quite narrow minded in terms of interpretations outside of this. I have to say, freeing my mind from such judgmental shackles is one of the greatest things to happen to me. You simply can't see reality when you've blinkered yourself along the lines of ANY particular group. That just leads to the most gross, unsophisticated petty mindedness which looks even worse coming from someone aligning themselves to a religious identity. All groups have their positives and negatives, we can learn from all. The tendency to try and 'monopolise' the truth is pathetic, but sadly seems to be a very common human instinct across religions. In terms of our spiritual beliefs, we should aim higher than being members of some exclusive/elitist groups who are sole custodians of sat. That's most often a stumbling at the first hurdle where people have turned their endeavours at dharam into some ego fueling mechanism.

Most disappointing that the Sikh Channel has not even started the scroll, let alone produce and show a Promo. Initially the Sikh Channel confirmed it would start the scroll on the evening on Friday 28 December. On Saturday 29 December the Sikh Channel were chased and said it did not have space for the scroll as too many other programmes were being advertised, but it would be put on as soon as possible. It is now Monday 31 December and many of the programmes previously advertised on the scroll have finished. It is hoped the event will be advertised as soon as possible or may be interpreted that the Sikh Channel does not want to highlight the Shaheedi of Satwant Singh Ji and Kehar Singh Ji.

Not sure, I can pm you their number. No one is disputing the authority or knowledge of sri guru granth sahib ji. For some, english translations of sri guru granth sahib ji does not cut it anymore they want to further study and there is nothing wrong with studying further only if one desires. If worldly school requires a teacher/tutor to help students understand material in the test books such as math calcus, physical, sql etc then there are no exceptions in sikh spiritual school. Contemplation/meditation and studying scriptures are two very different things. In sikhi, spiritual school of thought orders such as nirmale, taksal encourages both- it goes hand in hand. However, just like everything else you will always find people who idiolizes vidya so much so much they forget all about internal sikhi- meditation, seva, vichar, bibek etc...as such mindset focus is entirely on writing books, try to win theological debates in academia or big smagams/akharas, join scholary culture of sikhi- their study of gurmat end up being road block itself and they get trapped in it..vidya could become road block in sikhi if caution is not used...so nothing wrong with learning vidya, one just need to learn self-reflect/be honest with themselves and use caution, don't get trapped in vidya. Sikhi is double edge sword..!!

osingh you are quite right that this is a deep subject. Actually, in fact one cannot discuss this topic theologically 100 percent only but one also have to bring gurbani, gurmat sidhant, along with various saints from all different jatha and samparda divine expereinces. There are various ways to naam jap, with that being said regardless of different method, shabad surat remains central theme of it. Please see link http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/67671-meditation-techniques/ for more info, another way of naam jap which is swas gras- synchorinzing shabad with your breath- vahi - inhale and exhale guru and in over time naturally invoking- gurmukh rom rom har dhaivaie from navel. It's imperative for everyone (including me off course) the passion we use to discuss these important topics use the same passion to do simran. Personally speaking in the past for months, i have spent many months talking about such topics without actually doing simran consistently pro-actively every day, just recently from past a year or so with maharaj kirpa i have been consistently doing simran, trying to do self-reflection with my mind, trying to do vichar with bibek etc, i have been feeling great by maharaj kirpa so i encourage everyone not only just discuss this topic not just contemplate on drinking water from the ocean while standing off-shore, just jump right in the ocean..!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please give us a direct quote where proactive said this. Otherwise take your words back.

^^ Not necessarily true. Undoubtedly, Baba Jaitha Jee is of the Mazhabi baradree. But both Shaheed of Garhi Chamkour Sahib Baba Sangat Singh Jee and Shaheed of Saka Chhote Sahibzadiyan di Shaheedi Baba Moti Ram Mehra are of the same baradree as Bhagat Baba Ravidas Jee.

Hanji that was more preferably to mazabi Community (Bhai jaita Singh). On my last trip to India, I spent few weeks with mazabi community.. Spending time in their home. I saw bit more sikhi hope in them in my small pind of 2000ish ppl. Most of them are becoming target of Christian missionaries of majha batala area, so I started few stuff/programs for them (kirtan/tabla teacher tuition etc). Getting back to topic, I think Sikhs need to start prachar in India for these communities, so that such ppl like with above twitter account feels and stay alone. Also, most dera and missionaries are growing and getting on offensive mode against us because of continuous feed of propaganda and recruitment of non-jatts community.

From all I can see, the ravidassia baradree as a whole is very, very, very divided. So much so, that it is really, really, really sad. Sad, firstly, because the members of this community are the same as those blessed, beloved sons of Maharaj that He adopted as His own, when no-one, hindu, muslim, or otherwise, was willing to accept them. "Ranghrheta, Guru Ka Beta" "Inn Gareeb Sikhon Ko Dehon Patshahi Yaad Karen, Hamri Guruyai" "Sava Laakh Se Ek Laraon, Tabhe Gobind Singh Naam Taraon" Just a few days ago we collectively remembered that Magnificent, Amazing, Unparalleled and Unique test of tests, examination of examinations, when the Khalsa passed with flying colours: The Breathtaking Battle of Chamkaur Sahib. That Outstanding, Auspicious, Hallowed, and Unprecedented occasion in the history of modern man where Maharaj proved all His promises and more, when One Singh of Maharaj sought and obtained His agya to face one million Mughal soldiers on his own. Maharaj accepted the hukam of the Panj Singh Sahibaan, no questions asked, Sat Bachan, thus gifting His Patshahi to His Gareeb Sikhan at once. and; Maharaj chose His beloved beta, Shaheed Baba Sangat Singh Jee, of all the Singhs remaining, to receive the honour, privelige, and above all, Daat to adorn His Pavitar Kalgi. Sad, secondly, because these they continue to be denied the Daat that He intended for them. And Sad, thirdly, last, but not least, because most of them don't even know it.

I cant see the video. If the incident is to do with the Blakenhall fight, isnt that amongst themselves and nothing to do with Khalistanis? Or is every angry Sikh now a Khalistani? I think Sikhs should avoid stirring the pot, petty arguments on Twitter can be easily misinterpreted. The prat who runs that account sympathises with muslims and goreh extremists but has a hatred for Sikhs. If you look through his tweet history there are times where he mixes Sikh achievements in with Ravidassia ones (like success in the UK/businesses owned) and other times he cant stop sticking the knife in. Considering how some of his followers consider themselves 'Proud Chamars and Sikhs and Indians' in their bios, I just cant them seriously.

Khalsa Ji what's the Gurmat way of practicing naam?

I thought missionaries were all pindoos who had little knowledge of Sikhi. UKLondon, I don't even know if it's worth replying to your posts here... I'll just leave this here.

Bro / sis, could you please re-write your post in normal English or at least summarise in English? I find it very difficult to read this romanized Panjabi as the words used aren't standardised spellings so it's tough to ascertain what exactly is being said. Although if someone comes along who can understand it all then fair enough. :biggrin2:

Every week some Amritdhari has this issue on the gupt section. It getting sad to see The Piteous State of Today's Sikh Youth If we notice a Gursikh, who has taken Amrit of Guru Sahib and becomes so attracted to the member of opposite sex that he (or she) can only think of her and can't live without her, then surely such person was never in love with Guru Sahib. Every now and then we hear of a Gursikh brother or sister, shamelessly declaring that he or she will die unless he or she marries such and such person. How did a Gursikh end up at such stage? Wasn't he an Amritdhari to begin with? How did he violate such a strict order of Guru Sahib of considering other-women as mothers, sisters and daughters? Our youth now-a-days has reached such state that it has no hesitation or shame before openly communicating with the members of opposite sex. Today they start chatting with someone, tomorrow they start sharing their problems with each other, the day after tomorrow they develop feelings for each other and soon they are going out. Even at Kirtan Samagams where countless Gurmukhs are engaged in praising the true Lord, some of the misled youth are overcome with Aashiqaana feelings (Amorous feelings). The high, impregnable character of Khalsa youth has taken such a beating. Today if you look around, you can count on your fingertips such individuals who have not been stained by entering into relationships before marriage. The Internet has really shrunk the world. Today, if something occurs in the Sikh community in one country, it quickly spreads across the globe. If a young male or female commits an act of transgression, then the reputation of such individual is stained for life. Once one's character gets stained, it's hard to build it back. Gursikhs must rise above the Maya of this world and maintain strong Khalsa character. The time of marriage and the partner for life has already been chosen by Vaheguru. So relax and stop hunting for your life partner on your own. A Sikh youth who keeps strong character, keeps Sikhi Rehit is always in demand as far as marriage is concerned. A youth who starts hunting for a life partner on his own, soon gets his character stained and before he or she realizes, it's too late. No one is saying that we should become a segregated society like the Muslims and keep Purdah and don't talk with each other at all. What's required is to know our limits. Far too many Kaam-related mistakes are being committed by our youth because of their proximity to members of opposite sex. May Guru Sahib do Kirpa and enable his Sikhs to keep a strong moral character on which Guru Sahib can be proud of.

When converting dates, you have to take into account the fact that the Bikrami year isn't the same length as the Gregorian one. You'll find it was not 1695.

yes you are allowed to go the gurudwara when you are on your period ... just like any other day

VAHEGUROOO JI KA KHALSAAA VAHEGUROOO JI KI FATEH !! sangat ji .. ... I was just woundering wether coloured kachera are allowed? ie different colours? As my mami ji said.. if youre allowed different coloured keskis etc.. then surely youre allowed different coloured kachera jst woundering ji VAHEGUROOO JI KA KHALSA VAHEGUROOO JIKI FATEH !!!

Its a bit late now, so i'll copy up and type sant jarnail singh ji's comments to do with radhaswami's and other groups later as soon as i can. But basicaly sant ji said, that we need the sangat of the Guru's Sikhs, please NOTE GURU'S SIKHS. These are sikhs of Guru Granth Sahib Ji, not of any deh-tari guru or leader. When sant ji would ask the sangat for promises, for commitment for certain tasks, he would ask the sangat to raise their hands and shout the jakara. But he would say that only those true sikhs of the guru should raise their hands, he said those sikhs of the pipal tree, of the radhaswamis, of the narakdhari's etc etc shouldnt bother. Personally i think that if you cant commit to Guru Granth Sahib ji and from that to the khalsa panth, then can i rely on these people? Ultimately Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave the Gurgaddi to Guru Granth Sahib Ji, if someone who calls themselves a Sikh of Guru Nanak rejects the hukam of the 10th Nanak then that bothers me. For a hindu or a muslim to believe in their own guru's or leaders is different but for a 'sikh' to dismiss the completeness and the satguru status of Guru Ji is a different thing. If there is any other true guru out there... let him go to the troubled parts of the world and sacrifice himself for the peoples of that area, lets see if he can sit on the red hot plate and be tortured like our guru's did!! lets see if he can teach an uneducated illiterate peasant boy the meanings of the gits by tapping him on his head! or lets make it easier, lets see which of these human guru's has created such a disciple who can be beheaded and still fight on during the heat of battle! If there is such a Guru then introuduce me to him, if not then we need to bow our heads to the guru who has, who can and who will! Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji!