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Howdy Neighbour! Sikhs did voice their concerns very vocally in support of Babri Masjid and condemned the hindus for this act. And do you know what your co-religionists did to several gurdwaras in Pakistan and Afghanistan? I'll let you guess. The issue for me and probably most Sikhs is the history of building in its original construction. Sophia Cathedral was the centre of orthodoxy. It is like the Kaaba for Muslims and Sachkhand Sri HariMandir Sahib for Sikhs. It is no ordinary church. It is the heart and soul of orthodoxy. Now coming onto mosques, those mosques in spain are not religiously significant. Just like hundreds of Gurdwaras in Pakistani villages. The religiously significant gurdwaras in Pakistan ie Nankana Sahib Panja Sahib, Kirtan Garh Sahib etc..., are very precious to us Sikhs. The other gurdwaras in villages, you are welcome to them. See the difference? Guru Sahib built a mosque for his muslim soldiers in Gurdaspur called "Guru ki maseet". After 1947 all the muslims left for Pakistan and then the Sikhs started to use it as a Gurdwara. Since the last 10 years there has been an increase of Muslims in that area and the Sikhs there vacated the mosque for the muslims to re-use as a mosque after 60 or 70 years. That place is precious to Sikhs as our Guru built it yet we laid no claim over the muslims for it. See the difference? We have alcohol problems in east Panjab. The Sikhs can't seem to get enough. You have alcohol problems in west Panjab. You have to get the christians to buy it for you. Also, you have heroin problems in Pakistan. We do as well on our side but nowhere near the scale as yours. Well even under moghal rule, we were still called hindus. No. Exactly. India and Pakistan are both sides of the same coin. I am not a Indian. But surely the best of planners, Allah SWT created these people like this, so to destroy Allah's plans means that either Allah is not the best of planners, or that Allah is not perfect in himself? Eid mubarak as well neighbour!

Lol theres even brothels in Saudi Arabia, what makes you think "sharia" in pakistan is going to abolish tranny mujra, men in pakistan clearly have a taste for trannys, even "sharia" ain't gnna end it. It's a sexual orientation that is very popular in pakistan. No laws or religion is strong enough in today's time to end that, just look at the videos on youtube, it's a thriving business. Alcohol is openly sold in the streets of pak. Bacha baazi is a profitable business in the Pashtun territories. Truck drivers get a manja/bed, food and young boy as a package. And then there's obviously the serious heroin problems Islamic republic of Pakistan ? Good luck with your sharia fantasy ending all this never gnna happen

Bruh I spat my drink out ?? Those are trannys big part of paki culture. This paki uncle I used to work with showed me a video of a paki party in pakistan when imran Khan became pm and there was a topless tranny dancing and men were pouring water over its breast and it had the paki national anthem playing at the back!

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Yup paki pubjabi culture is FILTH! In school we used to have paki boys watching these mujras on the school laptops. My paki friend from mirpur told me that her dads fav song is a paki song called "nach kanjri" It's a reason why paki punjabis have a bad rep in pakistan and so does the punjabi language. Theres a vid on youtube where a female news anchor asks a old paki man a question about the price of vegetables and he replies saying he feels like w@nking ! Heera mandi in lahore is one of the oldest running brothels in the region, it goes back to the time of emperor jahangir. Thing is even the mulvis enjoy this stuff. Look at what some of these cheeky muftis get up to in hotel rooms.

This could be a part of the reason why many Pakistani Punjabis started to maintain a distance from Punjabi language and adopt Urdu which they recognise as more cultured. Enna ne taan edarle akhoti singera ton vi vadh gand paya hoia.

See, this right here is a perfect example of tu quoque fallacy. You're trying to make the point that mosques being converted (forcibly) to churches is wrong, but when another place of worship is unjustly converted to a mosque (i.e. what's going on in Turkey), you don't hold them to the same standard. This smacks of hypocrisy, and you really need to up your game if you want your points to be taken seriously. Have the intellectual integrity to be consistent with your criticism.

We are all moorakhs for the most part. It’s your third eye being activated. Let it happen, it’s a good thing.

Relax, listen to the ringing sound you hear when you relax (Ahmad naad/ primal sound). Let go and let the Samadhi (meditation) take you. Naam is all around you. The trees whisper it, the humans live in Karam of it.. without it, the sun wouldn’t rise and set and there would be no water, earth, food etc. Its everything you see and everything you don’t, it’s the Truth... and God is Truth. When you do naam Jaap, you’re connecting with the universe and beginning to realise the Divine Truth of who you really are and the universe around you. The illusion fades bit by bit, when you do it and when you practice and apply Gurbani to your life. The gyan (Divine knowledge) of Gurbani is the Guru. Be a good soul, forgive and be kind to yourself and all around you. Realise who you truly are. You are Truth, a part of God. The drop is in the ocean and the ocean is in the drop.

https://www.uk-rehab.com/drug-addiction/heroin/half-a-million-people-in-pakistan-addicted-to-heroin/ And we don't call ourselves 'Indian' ...

Here's a Indian Muslim Army general justifying attacking our Darbar Sahib. Wander how'd Muslims feel if we did that to Mecca.

@MuslimNeighbour ok so you must have watched it by now. I am interested to know why 1.2 billion muslims have not been able to take back israel with a population of 9 million, in an area land mass that is smaller than East Panjab. You wanted to know why 20 million Sikhs don't take back West Panjab with a population of some 200 million, and I gave you an honest answer. Let's hear yours.

The problem with what our Sikhs will have with Hagia Sophia was that it was a church first and then turned into a mosque. It isn't any old church, it is a very significant church that represents the heart of Orthodox Christianity. We do not like iconoclasm no matter what religion does it. It just so happens Muslims generally love to take over other religions places of worship and call it conquest. Even though Evangelicals are trying to convert Punjab to Christianity we have a sense of fair play that maybe those empire building Abrahamics don't have. I am sure if there was a mosque that was built on a site that had no other structure on it before nor any any place of worship that was taken over and there was a new Abrahamic religion to come out of the middle east which began taking over this mosque, we as Sikhs would object to it.

Without wanting to derail this topic, please do remember that it was originally a Christian building , not a mosque, so the historical facts completely undermine what you're saying. As far as the alcohol thing goes, whilst there is an alcohol problem in Punjab (and remember, it's both sides of Punjab), that's a bit of a low blow. And Sikhi is indeed it's own religion...don't really know why you mentioned that?. Finally, request to everyone, please could we try and stay on topic, and not derail an active thread? If you want to discuss a different topic, please start a different thread??.

What about those Muslims' ruling from Saudi Arabia to Iran and all over ME...which Islamic country has right narrative of Islamic ruling, past or present? Aurangzeb? Ahmad shah abdali? lol

there is no such thing as sikh pastor that's a christian thing , you really have no clue , just determined to bleat on and on about your own misguided agenda . Any stupid person peddling lies to misinform about sikhi compared to the bean counting mentality of other faiths and the omission of the actual truth of their treatment of women and other faiths deserves to be outted.

https://www.sikh24.com/2012/11/08/missionaries-in-punjab-a-growing-concern/

this is why we should all oppose sikh pastors wearing our uniform http://dailysikhupdates.com/christian-pastors-use-nihang-image-persuade-sikhs-converting-christianity/

What's happening in Punjab is disheartening but what is worse is the defeatist mentality of Sikhs abroad who have basically given up on Punjab. We ruled a much larger Punjab when we were 5% of the population and yet today when we are still a majority of 55% we start threads as some have done on what the Punjab would be like 'when' it becomes Muslim or Christianity majority! There is no chance in hell the Punjab will become a Christian or Muslim majority. There is a chance that unless the Sikh leadership takes action that we will have a Punjab which is 50% and 50% all other minorities. But instead of doing anything about it, we just put posts up presenting a defeatist attitude that will do a lot more to give confidence to the Christian missionaries than do anything worthwhile for Sikhs. My request to posters here is to ditch their defeatist mentality and instead of bemoaning Christian missionaries in Punjab is to help our own Sikhs who are doing parchar in Punjab.

Sikh politicians might carve out the yellow parts and make it into a new Punjab, Fazilka will go to Rajasthan while Doaba will become its own state lol! This is the problem in the place like South Asia where you have states that are very mixed and multicultural, Punjab unfortunately was/is one of those states. It will continue getting chopped and cut. Other states in India which are very mixed are having similar problems. Clashes between Hindus/Muslims in UP. I think in India there are many pending states that have not been created yet but people are demanding them to be created out of the bigger states, mainly on linguistic/ethnic lines. Going by the % Patiala, Rupnagar, Firozpur are probably Hindu majority by now.

theyre probably gonna try make punjab even smaller but it shouldnt come by suprise that the sikh population is decreasing in punjab, all the sikhs are going to western countries cause of no jobs or theyre all converting so they can support themselves financially.

This is an 2011 census...Lets wait and see the 2021 census..most Punjabis outside India are unaware of this issue and will be in for a shocker ?

That's pretty much what it looked like after partition, the orange areas were majority Hindu after partition. Even before partition the areas of hoshiarpur and SBS nagar were Hindu majority.

Was looking for it today on FB I couldn’t find it; I thought I saved unfortunately I didn’t. Has anyone else seen it? Please share as I too would like to see it again. Please share it here.

The concept of people changing their religion or ideology is nothing new. We all rejoice when someone converts to our religion, yet lament when they leave, and often say "they didn't study the religion well enough" (an excuse I see made mainly by those in the dawah scene). It seems that you can know next to nothing when you convert to the religion, but need some sort of a PhD when you want to leave. I have zero problem with people converting to the religion of their choice. What I find categorically abhorrent is when underhanded tactics/coercion/force are used to gain that conversion. We all have questions about religion/God/faith/liberation/salvation etc. Unfortunately, there are those who would take advantage of our quest for answers and attempt to win us over to their religion. Beware of strangers bearing gifts...

I remember a couple of years ago on FB there was a Nihung Singh who made a live feed on his channel in punjabi and destroyed Christian arguments because he had studied their bible. People need to support him and basically do prahcaar in the pinds. The Christian story is quite easy to debunk, Singhs should just tell the pind peeps of the Christian technique of sly converting to keep them aware.

Yeah true, if these missionaries think they have loyal Christian's and jesus worshippers than they are delusional. These christian converts are probably going mandir, deras, babas, dhargas etc believing in one deity/jesus is not enough for your average Indian, that is not the culture of that country or how belief system works there. Even muslims in india are the grave worshipping ones and practise many hindu rituals.

People in India are stubborn. Their belief systems are fluid. They can worship a devta in a mandir and then go to gurdwara to matha tek. They will turn Christ worship into the same thing. If they think they can make an Indian solely believe in Christ, they are in for a big surprise. Indians have a habit of indianising foreign influences, they absorb and turn it into something else.

Said this before, but one good thing about RSS and Modi is they have started to take action against them, Modi has banned some of christian NGOs, , but its too late Punjab, its sinking ship.s SGPC has failed them and we're too busy with appeasing with 'langars'. We might end up being South India We should use the Hinduvstas against them as they use Sikhs against muslims. We are powerless esp in India. So let RSS do their thing. i don't give a damn if the missionary are after Hindus, had they listened to Sant Ji they would have protected their dharma. RSS are seen as 'Hindu's, where as Hindu Atheism is growing. There is rise is atheism in India, esp among Hindus. The ones in like 3rd 4th generation Indians in west most see themselves as just culturally 'Hindus', and littles belief from what i see. https://theprint.in/features/there-are-2-9-million-atheists-in-india-and-its-been-around-in-asia-for-centuries/215680/

???????????? This is hilarious!!!! Laughing aside, it just goes to show the underhanded tactics of these people. I've got no problem with people preaching and changing their religion, it's all kosher. However, when you intentionally resort to sly methods to manipulate (or even force) people to change their ideology, that is crossing the line.

Shri Jesus Ji ! Mata Mary and baby Ganesha blasphemy!!! Surely all this is blasphemy, heresy! but i guess its Ok to blaspheme if it helps you convert some slum dwellers and peasants. this whole Christian thing in India is just a cult, money making business, just like the deras and the dhargas/peers

They playing similar games with Hindus in other parts of India, but this can easily backfire and Hindus can turn Jesus into another devta or avtaar of Vishnu, seems the Christians are walking straight into it.

I completely agree that some people will find arguments of other ideologies more convincing than their own, and would thus "jump ship". And this is true for all faiths, and even those with no faith. What you completely missed is that I didn't address this point at all in my previous post, which makes your assumptions a bit redundant. With regards to those being forced to convert, again, I think you completely missed the point. I never said that it happens all the time, but are you in any way insinuating that it doesn't happen at all? Truth is indeed very ugly at times, isn't it?... Without derailing this topic, I will agree that, in this specific scenario (Christian missionaries), a lot of it is down to parchar (or lack thereof), but also poor living conditions play a big role in this. Look forward to hearing your thoughts...

I see where you're coming from, but there is no silver lining in this situation. The Christian goes for the heart when recruiting while the Muslim in a characteristic display of impatient tactlessness goes for the head. The Christian method being considerably less abrasive is no less damaging to us than the Muslim conversion. Both are our enemies. The end result is the same: the elimination of Sikhs and the eventual erasure of the Sikh faith.

I think the Amritsar region has always been a hot spot for christian missionary activity, even during the British era Amritsar had a lot of that. You would think that Amritsar would have the strongest Sikhi and that a place like Doaba would be a Christian convert area. People in Doaba are quite tribalistic, not sure if that is the right word. But like a couple of years back there were riots between bhamans and chamars in phagwara, setting busses on fire, public buildings etc similar thing happened when a ravidassia preacher was shot in Austria. Dalit music is a big thing there! Especially during the voting season. I cant see the missionaries having a big impact there, but at the same time if they do worm their way in then the effects will be devastating. Or it could result in riots ... If Doaba starts becoming Christian then I'm guessing it will start from Jalandhar.

Who ever runs the No Conversion site is doing an excellent job. He has a channel on YouTube and he's on Facebook and Twitter exposing these fraud Christians. These Christians are growing strong mainly in Majha region. Tarn Taran is still okay but the situation in Amritsar and Gurdaspur is pretty bad. The Christians have not been able to make a big break in Doaba yet even though the people there are not religious. In Malwa where Sikhism is the strongest the Christians have not had any success yet. Generally people of Malwa have very strong faith in Sikhi. The way these Christians spread their cult is very unethical. They trick their intended prey by using the same religious terminology as the religion they oppose. For Hindus they use words like: Jesus they call him Prabhu Yasu and even Mary Ka Lala Mary they call her Devi Mary Hymns are sung in the fashion of Hindu Bhajans in front of moortis of Jesus and Mary. Hindu dances like Bharat Natyam, Dandiya and even Christian Yoga. They deceive Sikhs similarly by copying our terminology and concepts. They used the same tricks with Muslims in Malaysia. But now the government of Malaysia put a ban on them from using Islamic terms like Allah so the evangelical Missionaries won't be able to fool Muslims. Got to give credit to Muslims. They know how to protect themselves from these missionary vultures any way they can.

LOL he must of walked into a wall real hard and just didn't recover after that

I think he got knoked out on day and forgot what religion he was. I bet after he woke up and saw his kesh he thought he was Namdhari and he wanted to be Christian to [as there the biggest religion at the moment]

Oh they are very annoying! we used to get them knocking on our door every sunday but now they don't. In our highstreet we have this old man and a couple of old grannys and he stands on a step ladder middle of the highstreet and starts preaching the bible through a megaphone! while the grannys hand out jesus leaflets. He points at people and calls them sinners! says buddha and muhammed were false prophets etc A jehova witness person knocked on our door and gave my mum the bible, i was a kid back then and didnt know what it was and i cut the pages out and made them into paper animals and airplanes!

Theses jehova witnesses be knoking on my Nani ji's door trying to sell her Prabhu Isha but they fail every time. Even though she is'nt Amritdhari, her Sikhi is very strong. And when I mean strong, I mean stronger then the strongest thing on earth. She has seen the miricles of bani and of Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji Rara Sahib wale.

He his bonkers! I'm surprised hes still around ! I'm pretty sure he has a few missing screws!

Totaly agree

This Nijjar guy is a mix of Sikhi, Christianity and the Namdharis. He calls Satguru Nanak the second coming of chrrrrristttt......

Exactly. The SGPC has become the modern day equivalent of the mahants. They look after their pockets only. The SGPC needs to be abolished, we gotta return to our old methods of leadership. History truly does repeat itself.

End the centralised grab of cash : simple stop feeding the golaks with cash ; do direct action ourselves by funding the in-home education of people , go to dharamshalas/gurdwarey and amalgamate them turn the extras into health centres with water filtration and capture facilities , animal hospital/organic nurseries ,free schools,legal advice centres/mediation centres even sewing workshops so bibian can earn without having to shell out for machines extra , even opening examination centres so amritdhari folks don't lose out by being kicked around for wearing kakkar. Not one paise will go to waste unlike the crodes robbed by SCPC heads, badals RSS etc

We are powerless. Either they will end getting arrested, for being 'radicals' labeled as 'Khalistanis' by Hindustanis or badals or captian will take the money..if we want to make drastic changes, we also need lots of finance, in the millions or 100's millions to open schools, create jobs...But for that we need to be in power.. There's no passion for Sikhi left over there...sadly We're not like the Jews lol

This makes me think. Should Sikhs start up another Singh Sabha movement? Obviously for different motives from the last one. But a movement that calls for Gurdwara reform and begin launching a mass parchar movement within Punjab and in the West. I feel like this should be it's own topic to be discussed.

I was told by a prominent Gursikh to do at least one Chaupai Sahib the Paat, while sitting on the bed, before going to sleep. He also said, to have a glass of water to hand. Up on completion of the Paat, then drink the water... Waheguru...